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Ustio
It almost has to be intentional given the wording specifically mentions the exception of character generation, and that the exception only applies to the current rating not the maximum. Of course this is contradicted by the paragraphs regarding essence reduction on p.95
QUOTE
In game terms, this means that any fraction of Essence loss reduces a Magic or Resonance attribute rating by 1.

Which is more in line with the way it has worked previously.

So yet more things for the errata - it would be nice if the writers working on different section compared notes - the differences between Sprite and Spirit services really bug me - look at how limited Sprites are in comparison to Spirits yet the drain is the same (TM's do get to resit drain with Resonance+Attribute which will help eventually but combined with their much higher drain codes still doesn't help for the first several runs)
Shemhazai
So a mystic adept can only purchase power points for 2 Karma each at chargen? Is that right? How does gaining power points during initiation work?

Options then are:

Initiate three times, have 9 Magic and 1 Power = 50 Karma (13 + 16 + 19 + 2)
Exceptional Attribute (Magic), initiate twice, have 9 Magic, 3 Power = 49 Karma (14 + 13 + 16 + 6)
Initiate twice, have 8 Magic and 8 Power = 45 Karma (13 + 16 + 16)
Exceptional Attribute (Magic), initiate once, have 8 Magic and 8 Power = 43 Karma (14 + 13 + 16)

Plus whatever power points you can get from initiating. This also allows some focus bonding options. Rating 3 power or weapon = 3 Karma, Rating 4 something else = 4.
Jaid
QUOTE (Ustio @ Jul 21 2013, 12:08 PM) *
It almost has to be intentional given the wording specifically mentions the exception of character generation, and that the exception only applies to the current rating not the maximum. Of course this is contradicted by the paragraphs regarding essence reduction on p.95 ... so yet more things for the errata

pretty sure i already submitted that as errata, actually.
Ustio
Well as with SR4(a) you can choose either a metamagic or a powerpoint as a (Mystic)Adept, so math wise your options are:

Initiate (3), 1 Powepoint: Max PP: 4
Initiate (2), Exceptional Magic, 3 Powerpoints: Max PP: 5 - 1 spare Karma
Initiate (2), 8 Powerpoints: Max PP: 10 - 5 spare Karma
Initiate (1), Exceptional Magic, 8 Powerpoints: Max PP: 9 - 7 spare karma

So the most powerpoints possible is 10 - although that means missing out on some metamagics.
phlapjack77
QUOTE (Ustio @ Jul 22 2013, 12:08 AM) *
It almost has to be intentional given the wording specifically mentions the exception of character generation, and that the exception only applies to the current rating not the maximum. Of course this is contradicted by the paragraphs regarding essence reduction on p.95
It sounds to me like it's either an editing error or an old iteration of the rules that should've been updated. This would be a huge change to Essence loss and so on, and changing that with a 3-word-aside in the text seems unlikely. I think errata's the way to go, like Jaid said.
Falconer
Ustio:
It also doesn't cost money and resources to bind/register sprites. So the only real cost is the drain. While to bind a spirit you need both 500*force in expensive materials and to be able to take the drain.
Jaid
QUOTE (Falconer @ Jul 21 2013, 08:01 PM) *
Ustio:
It also doesn't cost money and resources to bind/register sprites. So the only real cost is the drain. While to bind a spirit you need both 500*force in expensive materials and to be able to take the drain.


- fading is much worse now than it ever was before.
- it also doesn't cost a magician a service to do nothing in the metaplanes for a while
- magicians are quite strong with or without sprites. technomancers are in general worse off than deckers in everything except for extreme long-term scenarios and dealing with oversight.
The Masked Ferret
For all of you who play missions, Official Ruling from Bull:
QUOTE
No Initiation at Chargen. Sorry.

Bigity
I like how that page thought my iPad had a virus.
The Masked Ferret
QUOTE (Bigity @ Jul 25 2013, 10:18 AM) *
I like how that page thought my iPad had a virus.


It's because the link is to the official boards from Dumpshock. wink.gif
Bigity
biggrin.gif
Grinder
QUOTE (The Masked Ferret @ Jul 25 2013, 04:03 PM) *
For all of you who play missions, Official Ruling from Bull:


Missions house rules are not relevant for most people here, I'd say.
Wired_SR_AEGIS
QUOTE (Grinder @ Jul 25 2013, 02:48 PM) *
Missions house rules are not relevant for most people here, I'd say.


No, they're just rules designed to have an even-handed, above board treatment of all archetypes in a diverse setting according to the original intent of the published rule set.

Folks that aren't interested in that can probably tune out. Particularly those of the Awakened Munchkin type. smile.gif

-Wired_SR_AEGIS
phlapjack77
QUOTE (Wired_SR_AEGIS @ Jul 26 2013, 12:16 AM) *
No, they're just rules designed to have an even-handed, above board treatment of all archetypes in a diverse setting according to the original intent of the published rule set.

Folks that aren't interested in that can probably tune out. Particularly those of the Awakened Munchkin type. smile.gif

-Wired_SR_AEGIS
Are you implying the the actual rulebook isn't an even-handed, above board treatment of all archetypes in a diverse setting, and that additional rulings are necessary to achieve this state, and these new rules can somehow divine the original intent of the published rule set? smile.gif
Wired_SR_AEGIS
QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Jul 25 2013, 05:31 PM) *
Are you implying the the actual rulebook isn't an even-handed, above board treatment of all archetypes in a diverse setting, and that additional rulings are necessary to achieve this state, and these new rules can somehow divine the original intent of the published rule set? smile.gif


Ha. Nah. This isn't a new rule, it's a clarification of an existing rule. smile.gif

I'm implying that the rule book has included a point where Awakened Archetypes can wring munchkinism out of an ambiguous paragraph that flies in the face of historical precedent, but whose intent is further clarified by the rules adopted in Missions.

Let me repeat: Initiation at Chargen is pure Munchkinism. smile.gif

It's for the players who aren't content to play the most powerful archetype in the game -- They want to play the most powerful archetype in the game AND immediately start with its most powerful features.

-Wired_SR_AEGIS
Jaid
for the most part, missions FAQ is all we're likely to see in the way of "errata" in the near future, if the past is any indication. the freelancers can certainly keep *asking* for errata to be published, but ultimately, it's not up to them. they can ask, they can remind, they can beg, they can threaten, they can go on public forums and rant about it, but they can't release errata.

now, granted, just because we have in the past not had errata issued doesn't inherently mean we won't get any errata in the future. but, if you want to see (semi) official solutions to common problems caused by badly phrased or incorrect statements in the rulebooks released in a timely manner, i would recommend looking to the missions FAQ. because they actually have to have a game that works as written, consistent across many different groups.
RHat
The difference, at the moment, is that the errata has already been collected, meaning that much of the work is already accomplished.
Jaid
QUOTE (RHat @ Jul 25 2013, 11:30 PM) *
The difference, at the moment, is that the errata has already been collected, meaning that much of the work is already accomplished.


sadly, that is not different.
Shemhazai
QUOTE (Wired_SR_AEGIS @ Jul 25 2013, 11:38 AM) *
It's for the players who aren't content to play the most powerful archetype in the game -- They want to play the most powerful archetype in the game AND immediately start with its most powerful features.

I think the problem is the difference in chargen and in-game costs.
The Masked Ferret
QUOTE (Shemhazai @ Jul 26 2013, 01:11 AM) *
I think the problem is the difference in chargen and in-game costs.


When you say 'In game costs', do you mean besides the Karma cost? Or the fact that you may have a Special Stat Priority to spend on the point of Magic?
forgarn
After reading through everything, I would have to answer this question with a resounding "NO!" And here is why I say that:

1) pg. 66 -
QUOTE
Note that for most metatypes, the maximum rating for Magic, Resonance, and Edge is 6; humans have a maximum Edge rating of 7. Certain qualities (Lucky, Exceptional Attribute) allow characters to exceed attribute maximums by one, but the player must purchase these qualities with Karma and may only do so with gamemaster approval (the player may purchase either Lucky or Exceptional Attribute, but not both).


2) pg. 98 in the table listing what you can spend your karma on - nothing is listed for initiation and in the text nothing is listed for it either. It does refer you to the "Character Advancement" section, but specifically for attributes and skills purchases.
QUOTE
When spending Karma for attributes or skills, refer to the rules for improving the character in the Character Advancement section (p. 103).


However... if I were to run a Prime Runner campaign, then this would all change. I don't know too many mages that I would consider Prime Runners that have not initiated, so for that particular campaign I would allow it because you are building an experienced runner at that point. But for Street or Standard, it will be a big no.
Shemhazai
QUOTE (The Masked Ferret @ Jul 26 2013, 01:15 PM) *
When you say 'In game costs', do you mean besides the Karma cost? Or the fact that you may have a Special Stat Priority to spend on the point of Magic?

The point for special attributes from metatype priority. Raising Magic to 8 or 9 vastly offsets the cost of lowering edge a few points, and probably the rest of what you sacrifice by making metatype or Magic a higher priority than you might have otherwise.
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