Effected, hmm? Yeah, I'd say you don't need a dice roll, just a momma rat and a poppa rat and enough time.

~Umi

P.S. - Do feel free to tease me about my typos in return! All in good fun, I tease because I love, that sort of thing.

The air elemental engulfing and mind control spells are only effective because instead of letting them affect one target (engulf), or maybe a few at most (mind control spells, which have a radius of effect), you are letting them take out multiple enemies. Run them how they should be, and the mages will still be effective, but won't instantly win encounters.

The problem with the focus is that you seem to be letting the player use the rules for creating a focus formula to create the focus itself. The latter is much more difficult and time-consuming. After you have the formula, you obtain telesma (and reagents), then craft the focus with an Enchanting + Magic (16 + object resistance, 1 day) Extended Test. Finally, you have to spend a karma point to complete the enchantment. So no, this isn't something you can whip up in a few days, then sell for thousands of Nuyen.

Yeah, this is why I rely on my Missions editors. though when i'm actually writing, as opposed to just babbling on a message board or Facebook, I do take more time and double check my work. here? Bah. My no care.

Now that would be a fun research lab to raid.
"They're coming out of the god-damn walls!"

That sounds like a job for Bear-Who-Walks-Through-Walls.

~Umi

*adds new heading to bag'o'tricks labeled "Things that make players say 'they're coming out of the god-damn walls!'"*

Flesh form Warform Toxic Mutant Demon Rats Insect Spirits
Hive Queen commands Insect Spirits, Insect Spirit command Devil Rats and Normal Rats. Can you say force multiplier effect?

What happens when you kill the Queen?

~Umi

Can you get to the queen?

If you do kill the queen, the usual stuff that happens to insect spirits happen. But bear in mind, a swarm of undirected rats gnawing on your ass is still a swarm of rats gnawing on your ass.

Not springing this in 5th until flamethrowers are statted.

THAT'S when they unleash the horde of DEMON Rats. the regenerating ones.

Ahh, Demon Rats.

Bigger, hairier, actually have horns, can open doors or just chew through them with their acid saliva, actively hunt instead of just scavenge, can psychically control ordinary and devil rats, swarm in groups of up to 30 individuals, breed three times a year, and have two subspecies, one which carries the VITAS-3 plague (now with 50% mortality in humans!), and the other which has the aforementioned regeneration critter power.

No, I know it sounds like a joke, but no, I am not making this up.

~Umi

One of my favorite creations.

At the risk of seeming really gauche by quoting myself but...


The demon rats have already been unleashed. Bigger and meaner versions due to warforming, toxic versioning and mutation.

Hm... Puts a brand new meaning to K-9 unit doesn't it?

Or as some like to call it.. Tuesday

Does this work? I like it, but are we making an assumption or is there a reference?

I think we're just going with the most logical assumption and interpretation. If the person you wish to Mind Control is already unable to control their own mind, surely the spell would be just as unable?

Not every possible situation is addressed by the rules. Sometimes you just have to think logically. For example, you can't mind control an unconscious person. Not stated anywhere in the rules to my knowledge, but it would be the logical conclusion wouldn't it? Same for being berserk.

~Umi

Instead of not being able to control them, why not add the control test modifiers to the caster of the spell. In the case of Berserk, it would be an additional test of Willpower + Charisma (-2 since they are casting a spell). Failure would mean that not only didn't you control the target, but now his attention is focused on the spell caster. This would make the use of the spell valid, but also make it risky. Another fun twist would be for a glitch to make the caster go berserk himself and the target okay and a critical glitch for both of them to be berserk.

Just thoughts.

Vlad

I get every possible situation isn't addressed by the rules. But if a situation IS address by the rules, I probably shouldn't make my own unless I have a good reason, like "the rule is bad". Considering the large number of books the info is scattered around in, it's very possible there is a rule that I don't know about. So. Since it isn't a rule, I'll probably add a bonus (maybe +4 dice) to resist for berserk. I'll need to work out bonuses for other states vs mind control as well, 'cause a lot of stuff should make it harder (or easier) to do a control thoughts or control actions.

So far as unconcious, I'd let more passive spells, like Influence and Alter Memory work while the target is unconscious but not active "control thoughts" type spells.

What about control actions though? If their mind is unconscious, shouldn't that make it easier to control their bodies?

Unconscious targets are considered voluntary targets for the purpose of spells. I'm not sure mind probe would register anything, though - a sleeping target, maybe, but an unconscious target, unlikely. Control thoughts or control actions might be easier to establish, but you would probably need to wake the target up somehow if you wanted to make him/her do something.

Generally speaking, you can still probe their unconscious mind, although that takes a lot more successes.

Curious, how does one protect vs Engulf? I mean sure you get to resist, or try to escape, but for a mundane, if 'geek the mage' isn't an option (say its a free spirit elemental or somesuch), basically all they can do is what...run until they're tired AND dead?

Air Engulf is stopped cold by an Inhalation-vector protection, so a simple gas mask will do it.

I believe SnS is the goto option.

Less so in SR5. APDS is a better option in basically every weapon, and chargen available. This, combined with the changes to damage codes and hardened armour, makes it a lot easier to actually damage spirits. That said, they still get some benefit from Hardened Armour when you do damage them (automatic hits on the soak test equal to half the modified value of the hardened armour).

Oh good I was kinda bored with tasing spirits.

Well then may I suggest anti-vehicle rockets?

Tasers are awesome weapons of POWER! Primarily because they don't attract any suspicion when you carry them around in corp-world, but still...

Spirits engulfing you? Invest in Shock Frills.

~Umi

I didn't mean to suggest that he was making full talismans, just the formula. And he ended up selling them for about 4,500 in between each job. Does that sound more reasonable?

But it seems like people are suggesting that any given talismonger may not need many "force 6 power focus formulas," right? So selling one each week might not be realistic?

I'd imagine the market for foci formula would be quite limited, enforcing tradition restrictions your main demographic would be mongers sharing the magi's tradition and once they got one, why would they need another? to sell to the competition?

@Shock frills
Personally I always endorse electroshock orthoskin, shock frills with the added benefit of spicing up your love life

"Hey baby, I'm the son of Thor, want me to prove it?"
*Crack-a-Boom!*

~Umi

No cuddling means NO CUDDLING.

Man, it's gonna be a shocking experience.

Once he's sold him a Force 6 Power Focus Formula, the talismonger has literally zero use for a Force 6 Power Focus Formula from the same tradition.

Unless one Focus Formula is for a Necklace, and the other one is for a Ring. Those are TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FORMULAE, even if they do the same thing.

At the absolute max, the talismonger would give him a diminished about for further PF6 formula, because a new variety of the same item is not as valuable as a new item.

Also, its a bit metagamey, but who's to say the monger doesn't already HAVE formula at those ratings/design. Unless you're going to a brand new guy who just opened his store, but he probably doesn't have the cash you need anyway.

I'd be all for having the mage's actions have in-game consequences...and I don't mean consequences in a dickish GM-move kinda way, I mean have the actions actually cause things to happen in the world that involve the characters.

This could be the opportunity for some interesting runs to develop for the group. A local initiate group/mafia/corp/street gang has heard about this mage selling power focus formulas, and wants a cut of the money/a special formula/something stolen/etc.

or might just be pissy that someone is stealing their biz... If I recall correctly the triads does a lot of dealing with magics.

Ancient Chinese Wisdom say 'Man with Broken Fingers writes No Formulas'.