Full Version: Your munch-fu is superior!
What's interesting is no one mentioned Pain Resistance in any of this, specifically Pain Resistance 4.
Which moves your threshold for TN modifers four boxes over.
At five boxes (M+2), you're finally -1TN. S+1 is a +2TN. At deadly, you've got +3TN, but then, you're also dead.
Yep, Pain Resistance 4 is the sweet spot.
I dunno, reading this board inspires my numbercrunching side, but no matter what, I just don't see the FUN in all of this. -shrug- Guess this is why I'm clearly not a true munchkin.
Yeah, crunching numbers can be entertaining from time to time, but the end result is always something incredibly lame and boring it seems.
| QUOTE (Moonstone Spider) |
| Carrying the plan on that mime even further consider this: Killing Hands L Delay Damage (Subtle) Distance Strike Blindfighting Any Martial Art 6 + blindfighting Subtle delay damage means you need not make anything like an attack to kill an enemy. Distance Strike lets you do it at Magic Meters away. Blindfighting (You could probably also use Astral Perception) means you can make the attack even when blindfolded with a fair chance of success. Your character can kill just about anybody within his magic range even if he's tied up in a chair and blindfolded. And since he can delay the damage he could, if captured, easily kill every person in the room before the first one realizes he's hit. It'd be even better with some Improved Unarmed Combat of course. |
That's actually pretty damn cool. It's really not even /all/ that munchy, just very interesting. I don't have my books on me, is that all 6 points?
| QUOTE (gfen) |
| What's interesting is no one mentioned Pain Resistance in any of this, specifically Pain Resistance 4. Which moves your threshold for TN modifers four boxes over. |
Untrue. It means you suffer no modifiers until you hit five boxes, at which point you're at +2 because you're in the range of a Moderate wound.
~J
No, he had it right. Pain Resistance (and Damage Compensators, and everything else that works like them) reduce the total number of boxes of damage you have by their rating for purposes of wound modifiers. So if you have Pain Resistance 4 and a total of 7 boxes of damage, you only effectively have 3 boxes of damage (just barely a Moderate wound) for purposes of determining what your penalty is.
That aside, I really only bother with Pain Resistance if/when I anticipate getting a Guardian Angel and Trauma Damper combo, and then only at a rating at 2. At that point, you're pretty much immune to damage in the short term. Even a single Great Dragon ATGM isn't enough to take down a Body 3 character with no armor; it's automatically a Serious wound only, with a decent to good chance of staging it down to Moderate or even Light.
That aside, I really only bother with Pain Resistance if/when I anticipate getting a Guardian Angel and Trauma Damper combo, and then only at a rating at 2. At that point, you're pretty much immune to damage in the short term. Even a single Great Dragon ATGM isn't enough to take down a Body 3 character with no armor; it's automatically a Serious wound only, with a decent to good chance of staging it down to Moderate or even Light.
Page 170, SR3
"Subtract your level of pain resistance from your current damage before determining your injury modifiers. For example, an adept with pain resistance 3 does not suffer any penalties for being lightly or moderately wounded. At 4 boxes of damage, the adept only has a +1 injury modifier (4-3=1, or light damage)."
"Subtract your level of pain resistance from your current damage before determining your injury modifiers. For example, an adept with pain resistance 3 does not suffer any penalties for being lightly or moderately wounded. At 4 boxes of damage, the adept only has a +1 injury modifier (4-3=1, or light damage)."
Are you sure about that? *Digs for books*
~J
~J
With Smiley's quote added as well, yes. 
Smiley quoted while I was posting 
Fair enough, then. I take it that applies to vehicle Contingency Maneuver Controls as well?
~J
Fair enough, then. I take it that applies to vehicle Contingency Maneuver Controls as well?
~J
I hope so, it took me long enough to type that Lime beat me to the post.
Pretty sure it does. I'd have to double check on that one, though.
Nope, it doesn't look like it does. Rigger 3, p. 128: "Once the damage passes the Moderate level [for a vehicle with CMC 3], however, all damage and initiative modifiers apply as per the standard rules."
Nope, it doesn't look like it does. Rigger 3, p. 128: "Once the damage passes the Moderate level [for a vehicle with CMC 3], however, all damage and initiative modifiers apply as per the standard rules."
Neve mind -- didn't realize there were four pages of posts that answered my question
From way back on p.1:
| QUOTE |
| Why on Earth would you want to waste a real Magic point (and thus your Magical Power permanently since that's automatically the one you lose)) for a Force 1 Ally spirit just to sustain a spell that only costs 1 Karma and 15,000 nuyen? - A Clockwork Lime |
Besides the sustaining, because it acts like an always-there power focus which can be readily upgraded to higher levels, and which can avoid wards. This was suggested for a variant of a guns adept, so the low-Force starting ally also can give you a sense of what lies behind the cover and exactly where ... and with a later 5 karma addition, the automatic sense link lets you see it for yourself.
I didn't list the near-compulsary mid-high Force Heal spell. The ally always has one spell for free - why not the Heal? Even a low-level casting might make the difference ... and as you grow it in power, you won't have to re-learn the spell specifically for it at a higher Force.
Finally, in an emergency, it can always soak the drain for that Heal spell (cast at max Force) instead of you. So it disrupts the ally for a bit - what's the alternative?
I think you missed the part where you would instantly lose the Magical Power and never again would you be able to advance in it. In essence, you just spent 5 Build Points for the priviledge of having a Force 1 Ally Spirit you'll never be able to improve and the esteem honor of being hosed each time you initiate (by having to choose between a Power Point or a Metamagic Technique, whereas standard adepts get both).
At least get Magical Power 2 if you're going to do it, or hope that your GM is allowing initiation during character creation and initiate with the Familiar geas. Otherwise, you're screwed.
Not the best call in the world, especially for what ends up just being a Force 1 Foci that can't ever be replaced if lost.
P.S. Ally Spirits only get a free spell from the ones you know. They don't get one at random if you don't know any. That's one of the reasons Conjurers get screwed "by the rules."
At least get Magical Power 2 if you're going to do it, or hope that your GM is allowing initiation during character creation and initiate with the Familiar geas. Otherwise, you're screwed.
Not the best call in the world, especially for what ends up just being a Force 1 Foci that can't ever be replaced if lost.
P.S. Ally Spirits only get a free spell from the ones you know. They don't get one at random if you don't know any. That's one of the reasons Conjurers get screwed "by the rules."
Note how I only listed the one Force 1 spell in that post? There would have been 5 sp left over for the Heal - possibly more if you allow the SR2 magical edges ... although I deliberately left it open in case someone wanted some other combination of spells. If, as I suggest, the two spells taken are Improved Reflexes (Force 1) and Heal (Force 5), then the ally has a 50/50 chance of having either (for a starting character with only the two, I'd let them choose): although both are damn potent for an ally spirit!
| QUOTE |
| I think you missed the part where you would instantly lose the Magical Power and never again would you be able to advance in it. |
To the best of my knowledge, the only time when that occurs is when you deliberately choose to abandon a geas you took to "make up" a lost Magic point ... not when you sacrifice a Magic point and don't take a geas for it. If you know otherwise, please quote me the section?
Edit:
The total build was 5 power points: the one lost to the ally had already been figured in. Any further losses, and the adept would have to geas to retain Magic Power.
| QUOTE |
| you just spent 5 Build Points for the priviledge of having a Force 1 Ally Spirit you'll never be able to improve |
So long as access to the conjuring skill remains, all it takes to improve the ally is investment of good karma.
Check the rules for magical adepts in MitS. If I recall correctly, when they loose magic, they always loose the point attached to Magical Power. When they loose all points in Magical Power, they can't ever get it again.
[edit] MitS p 22 . This may not apply here, though. Don't know enough about ally spirits to comment. [/edit]
[edit] MitS p 22 . This may not apply here, though. Don't know enough about ally spirits to comment. [/edit]
MitS p. 31, "Geasa" specifically only mentions Magic Loss, not sacrificing a point to an ally spirit. The rules on page 112 (second paragraph, first column) specifically state that it cannot be geased. An Adept of the Magician's Way (p. 22) must automatically lose points from their Magical Power adept power any time they lose a point of magic. Once you lose all of your Magical Power, you can never regain it.
Thus, if you only start with Magical Power 1 and use it to summon an Ally Spirit, you automatically lose a point of Magic and thus the Magical Power.
So again, you'll want at least Magical Power 2 or you need to initiate with the Familiar ordeal to pull it off. Otherwise, you're screwed. Big time.
EDIT: Improving an ally spirit takes more than Karma. You also have to have full access to Conjuring to perform the Ritual of Change and a few other things.
Thus, if you only start with Magical Power 1 and use it to summon an Ally Spirit, you automatically lose a point of Magic and thus the Magical Power.
So again, you'll want at least Magical Power 2 or you need to initiate with the Familiar ordeal to pull it off. Otherwise, you're screwed. Big time.
EDIT: Improving an ally spirit takes more than Karma. You also have to have full access to Conjuring to perform the Ritual of Change and a few other things.
Your new post tied with my edits, [edit] and I think my edits also covered your conjuring specification edit. Take it as implied that there would have been Magic Power 2, but that I only gave the net after the point was given to the ally, not the starting allocation.
I think we might be on the same page but had been talking at cross-purposes ...?
I think we might be on the same page but had been talking at cross-purposes ...?
Very well then. But if that were the case, you would have had 12 Spell Points to blow, not 6.
But if that were the case, you would have had 12 Spell Points to blow, not 6.
TinkerGnome:
Re losing Magic Power magic points first, yes. It might be interesting to find an official ruling as to whether "magic loss" rules also apply to points deliberately sacrificed outside 'ware/drugs/injury. My own ruling would be that the point sacrificed to the ally would go first from Magic Power, but I can see a possible argument to the contrary.
A Clockwork Lime:
All the better! (Ever heard someone complain that they had too many spell points to spend?) Make the Heal level 6, and add, oh, given the tone of this thread, instead of the usual, make it something nastily munchkiny that potentially works even better for the ally: Reduce CH 5
That makes it a Night one Magician's Way pistol adept (ungeased):
Improved [firearm of choice] 6 (3.0)
Sound filtre (0.25)
Stealth 3 (0.75)
Magical power 1 (originally 2: 2.0)
Improved Reflexes Force 1
Heal Force 6
Decease CH Force 5
Force 1 ally spirit with one of spells above
Edges: Exceptional/bonus attribute QU
Flaws: (take your pick)
The question still remains of whether it is desirable to have a Force 1 ally, one not resulting from pregen initiation, at chargen. Obviously I can see uses, else I would not have suggested it ... but is it "worth it"?
Re losing Magic Power magic points first, yes. It might be interesting to find an official ruling as to whether "magic loss" rules also apply to points deliberately sacrificed outside 'ware/drugs/injury. My own ruling would be that the point sacrificed to the ally would go first from Magic Power, but I can see a possible argument to the contrary.
A Clockwork Lime:
All the better! (Ever heard someone complain that they had too many spell points to spend?) Make the Heal level 6, and add, oh, given the tone of this thread, instead of the usual, make it something nastily munchkiny that potentially works even better for the ally: Reduce CH 5
That makes it a Night one Magician's Way pistol adept (ungeased):
Improved [firearm of choice] 6 (3.0)
Sound filtre (0.25)
Stealth 3 (0.75)
Magical power 1 (originally 2: 2.0)
Improved Reflexes Force 1
Heal Force 6
Decease CH Force 5
Force 1 ally spirit with one of spells above
Edges: Exceptional/bonus attribute QU
Flaws: (take your pick)
The question still remains of whether it is desirable to have a Force 1 ally, one not resulting from pregen initiation, at chargen. Obviously I can see uses, else I would not have suggested it ... but is it "worth it"?
While attacking an opponent's foci is usually a waste, attacking their spirits or ally spirits is not. Even an accidental Spiritblast cast against hostile spirits in the area will wipe out such a little ally spirit.
I've found having anything less than a Force 4 Ally Spirit to be more of a liability and waste of Karma rather than a boon.
I've found having anything less than a Force 4 Ally Spirit to be more of a liability and waste of Karma rather than a boon.
Magical Power gets lost first, and if reduced to 0 is gone forever.
Edit: note to self, before replying to a topic I've left sitting for a while, refresh the page.
~J
Edit: note to self, before replying to a topic I've left sitting for a while, refresh the page.
~J
| QUOTE (Lilt) |
| Blindfighting is good, but under most circumstances (IE: When there's not a white noise generator around) you'd be better with ultrasound vision and some other mod such-as natural thermo. |
Can an adept have ultrasound vision?
I imagine one might be able to detect untrasonic reflections and stuff, but isn't there a restriction on senses that would require "transmission"? (no radio equivalents, etc) Wouldn't this mean that you'd still need an ultrasound emitter on a visor or your gun or something?
Sure can. Bats, whales, and several other animals have natural echolocation.
| QUOTE (gfen) |
| Yep, Pain Resistance 4 is the sweet spot. |
Hmm .. never considered PR 4 ...
PR 1 is especially nice, though. It effectively causes any wound to be 1 level lower, as far as effects. That S wound? really only like a serious one. That L wound? You can ignore it.
Granted, 4 levels of pain resistance is pretty darn nice - you can soak two medium's or a serious and only have the modifiers of a light wound. That's almost immportality, for a gunsliner -- esp since you no longer have to make sure to hit first.
But, 4 levels is expensive! I've usually wanted other powers first.
| QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime) |
| Sure can. Bats, whales, and several other animals have natural echolocation. |
<g>
I like that interpretation. I was going from a strict interpretation of what I remembered the rules to day -- and was probably wrong in my rememberance. =)
I'd go with that tho, ultrasound vision is pretty sweet, AND has a natural possibility. Talk about mutant powers.
Pain resistance may be done better as an edge, though.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime) |
| Sure can. Bats, whales, and several other animals have natural echolocation. |
Little problem there:
All these animals also constantly emit the necessary soundwaves for their echolocation.
So unless your adept doesn't run around with a constantly openend mouth, emitting ultrasound (with vocal cords that aren't suited for emitting ultrasound and most definitely aren't part of an "improved sense" of any kind) or growing some other magical organ that's able to do that job: No, ultrasound vision as an improved sense via adept power will not work.
Those animals above have very little trouble doing it. I don't think they have any technology for using it, or that the Improved Sense power specifically doesn't allow you to do it as part of the sense. Some people today, without magic, can even make little clicking sounds and use a form of weak echolocation to help them navigate. I don't see the problem in an adept developing a similar ability that's inaudible to most people.
What Cochise is saying is that sure you can have ultrasound hearing, but that doesn't automatically become ultrasound vision unless you also have something that can emit ultrasound and something that can process it. As a house-rule I'd lump those together at .25 PP cost, for a total of .5PP for the whole thing, but it's still not wholly canon.
The FAQ specifically says "yes" to Ultrasound for Improved Sense. While not official, most people around here take it as such.
Likewise, nothing in the Improved Sense power's description forbids an adept from developing whatever "organs" he needs to use an augmented sense. The context is that as long as you can find a similar sense in nature, it's acceptable. Purely technological sensory enhancements (such as a Laser Microphone or Eye Light System) are the only ones that are strictly forbiden.
Likewise, nothing in the Improved Sense power's description forbids an adept from developing whatever "organs" he needs to use an augmented sense. The context is that as long as you can find a similar sense in nature, it's acceptable. Purely technological sensory enhancements (such as a Laser Microphone or Eye Light System) are the only ones that are strictly forbiden.
| QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime) |
| Who said they wouldn't be transmitting when they used it? Ultravision transmits when it's active, so the adept power would, too. |
I guess that would bring it into the field of radio or similar technological phenomena which aren't allowed for improved senses ... technological Ultrasound Vision explicitly includes ultrasound emitters within the eyes. I wonder how the adept's eyes are going to that?
Or with what is your adept going to emit his ultrasound?
~Editing away these days?~
| QUOTE (AClockwork Lime) |
| Those animals above have very little trouble doing it. I don't think they have any technology for using it |
These animals have specifically designed organs that allow them to produce the aforementioned ultrasound waves.
| QUOTE |
| or that the Improved Sense power specifically doesn't allow you to do it as part of the sense. |
The question remains: Where does he he emit it from? The organs for emitting ultrasound as such are not integral part of the sensory organ that allows these animals to perform their echolocation. They just don't work without each other.
| QUOTE |
| Some people today, without magic, can even make little clicking sounds and use a form of weak echolocation to help them navigate. |
Which prevents them from doing anything else with their vocal cords ... especially speaking
| QUOTE |
| I don't see the problem in an adept developing a similar ability that's inaudible to most people. |
Unless there's also another power that provides your vocal cords with the ability to emit ultrasound, this is not going to happen, simply because of the physics involved.
And altered voice patters would definitely not fall into the realm of the power "improved senses" ...
Bioluminescent material is common (enough) in nature. It won't be as impressively bright as an eye-light, but should be able to negate total darkness penalties in favor of minimal light and the adept glowing like a deep ocean fish.
| QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime) |
| The FAQ specifically says "yes" to Ultrasound for Improved Sense. While not official, most people around here take it as such. |
Do I really have to go through all those other threads where you deny the FAQ any official status?
And do I really need to repeat the last sentence of what you quoted?
Also, try reading the power sometime. Especially the following line:
"Unless an improvement involves radio or similar technological phenomena, any sense provided by cyberware can also be provided by this power."
Note that nothing in the power's description says that the adept can't develop a natural augmentation to aid them in the use of such a sensory improvement. Ultrasonic Vision is a sensory augmentation that does not rely on radio or similar technological phenomena. Its only requirement is sound; it doesn't technically even have to originate from the character, nor does it really even have to be inaudible. If you really want to get your panties in a twist, assume the adept's making an audible or just-barely-audible clicking sound when using it.
Nothing about it violates either the intent or the concept of the Improved Sense power. It's a natural sense exhibited in several species in nature, and thus is hardly dependant upon technology... the latter being the only real limitation for the power.
"Unless an improvement involves radio or similar technological phenomena, any sense provided by cyberware can also be provided by this power."
Note that nothing in the power's description says that the adept can't develop a natural augmentation to aid them in the use of such a sensory improvement. Ultrasonic Vision is a sensory augmentation that does not rely on radio or similar technological phenomena. Its only requirement is sound; it doesn't technically even have to originate from the character, nor does it really even have to be inaudible. If you really want to get your panties in a twist, assume the adept's making an audible or just-barely-audible clicking sound when using it.
Nothing about it violates either the intent or the concept of the Improved Sense power. It's a natural sense exhibited in several species in nature, and thus is hardly dependant upon technology... the latter being the only real limitation for the power.
No ... although you said yourself that it ain't official again, you tried to use the FAQ as argument. That's what I consider somewhat hypocritic from someone who openly denies the legitimacy of FAQ entries
adept powers have no basis in biological functions. adept low-light vision does not involve extra rods and cones, adept hi-freq hearing involves no changes to the structure of the ear, adept ultrasound does not involve any modification to the vocal chords.
how do i know this? because these powers disappear when an adept enters a mana warp. i can see adept powers inducing extensive change in the adepts anatomy as they appear; i can't see those extensive physiological changes suddenly evaporating in the presence of extremely warped magic. why would alien, toxic mana cause a magically active body to revert to its normal state? doesn't it make more sense to say that these senses are fourth-dimensional structures that are cut off from interaction with the magically active body by the alien mana?
how do i know this? because these powers disappear when an adept enters a mana warp. i can see adept powers inducing extensive change in the adepts anatomy as they appear; i can't see those extensive physiological changes suddenly evaporating in the presence of extremely warped magic. why would alien, toxic mana cause a magically active body to revert to its normal state? doesn't it make more sense to say that these senses are fourth-dimensional structures that are cut off from interaction with the magically active body by the alien mana?
What about a form of Smart link for adepts? only allows the -2 modifier but won't allow mental control of the weapon.
bleagh.
Wow, that's descriptive. Care to elaborate on that?
I'd consider allowing it, but not as an Improved Sense.
Enhanced Aim
Cost: 0.5 (Level 1) or 1.0 (Level 2)
Each level of this power grants a -1 target modifier for any ranged attack test the adept makes. Level 2 provides a -1 modifier when using two firearms simultaneously in lieu of the normal bonus. It is not compatible with any other non-adept targeting bonuses, including a smartlink-2's Called Shot modifier or vision magnification.
This makes it a little different from normal, but not unbalancing so. Keeps the flavor between the two on the same level, especially since an adept has always been free to get a Smartlink-2 without a problem anyway.
Enhanced Aim
Cost: 0.5 (Level 1) or 1.0 (Level 2)
Each level of this power grants a -1 target modifier for any ranged attack test the adept makes. Level 2 provides a -1 modifier when using two firearms simultaneously in lieu of the normal bonus. It is not compatible with any other non-adept targeting bonuses, including a smartlink-2's Called Shot modifier or vision magnification.
This makes it a little different from normal, but not unbalancing so. Keeps the flavor between the two on the same level, especially since an adept has always been free to get a Smartlink-2 without a problem anyway.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| adept powers have no basis in biological functions. adept low-light vision does not involve extra rods and cones, adept hi-freq hearing involves no changes to the structure of the ear, adept ultrasound does not involve any modification to the vocal chords. how do i know this? because these powers disappear when an adept enters a mana warp. i can see adept powers inducing extensive change in the adepts anatomy as they appear; i can't see those extensive physiological changes suddenly evaporating in the presence of extremely warped magic. why would alien, toxic mana cause a magically active body to revert to its normal state? doesn't it make more sense to say that these senses are fourth-dimensional structures that are cut off from interaction with the magically active body by the alien mana? |
I'll offer a big ol' "Hear Hear" to you, mfb!
Whilst entertaining, the debate is redundant - unless you want to discuss ultrasound as a SURGE effect. Magical abilities are precisely that - magical. If you want your adept to have low-light, that's what they have. If, however, you want them to have eye-lights, then why complain? They don't need a bulb and a 9 volt, they have magic! Glowing eyes? No problem.
I've said it a gazillion times before - magic ain't real, it's just a game. Forget the (game) mechanics and puff out the flavour! It's all about the fantasy, boys and girls! Give me whirling-fists-of-fiery-streetfighterII-killing-hands-doom and handy Legolas-walking-on-top-of-the-snow-traceless-walk! Yippee!!!
bleeeeeeaaaaagh.
this idea's been argued over many, many times. if you bring it up in your group, it will probably be argued over. it's basically an argument waiting to happen, anytime, anywhere.
this idea's been argued over many, many times. if you bring it up in your group, it will probably be argued over. it's basically an argument waiting to happen, anytime, anywhere.
| QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime) |
| Also, try reading the power sometime. |
Take your time to note the fact that I have read it some minutes ago
Or where did I get that part in italics from?
Don't start getting personal again ... this doesn't make your argument any better.
| QUOTE |
| "Unless an improvement involves radio or similar technological phenomena, any sense provided by cyberware can also be provided by this power." |
For a human being without an organ that produces ultrasound, this can be considered an technological phenomena ...
| QUOTE |
| Note that nothing in the power's description says that the adept can't develop a natural augmentation to aid them in the use of such a sensory improvement. |
Note also that the power refers to the sense, not to additional organs that make that sense operational.
This goes into the same direction of argument as saying: Since the SR rules don't state that metahumans cannot fly, it's obviously possible for them to do exactly that.
| QUOTE |
| Ultrasonic Vision is a sensory augmentation that does not rely on radio or similar technological phenomena. |
Radio = electromagnetic waves. Funnyly enough our normal perception is also based on electromagnetic waves, so the distinction isn't that easy, when simply looking at the media that's being perceived.
Conventional Radar operates on the very same principle as echolocation. It's a form of active perception via emission.
Vision enhencements like IR or low-Light however are strictly passive. So it ain't too far of a strech when seeing ultrasound vision for humans as a "similar" technological phenomena.
| QUOTE |
| Its only requirement is sound |
Not quite ...
| QUOTE |
| it doesn't technically even have to originate from the character |
It sure has to ... or he has to have another connection to the sound source. Otherwise he has no reference for evaluating the echo.
| QUOTE |
| nor does it really even have to be inaudible. |
In terms of ultrasound vision: It most definitely has to.
And the physics involved with normal wavelengths and the lack of good echos in the media air makes such an "vision" based on audible frequencies more or less impossible as well ... unless you include yet another enhenced sense: selective hearing. Still then it wouldn't work as good as with ultrasound.
| QUOTE |
| If you really want to get your panties in a twist, assume the adept's making an audible or just-barely-audible clicking sound when using it. |
Which still prevents him from doing anything else with his voice.
| QUOTE |
| Nothing about it violates either the intent or the concept of the Improved Sense power. |
Obviously there are different POVs on that ...
| QUOTE |
| It's a natural sense exhibited in several species in nature, and thus is hardly dependant upon technology... |
Who still possess additional organs that are independant of the sense ...
| QUOTE |
| the latter being the only real limitation for the power. |
see above in the part about similar functionality of US-Vision and Radar
| QUOTE (Cochise @ Apr 29 2004, 04:56 PM) |
| No ... although you said yourself that it ain't official again, you tried to use the FAQ as argument. That's what I consider somewhat hypocritic from someone who openly denies the legitimacy of FAQ entries |
Actually, no, that's your assumption. I pointed it out because, despite my personal take on FAQs, a lot of people do consider it official and it's quite clearly covered there for those who do.
| QUOTE |
| Don't start getting personal again |
Follow your own advice, "hypocrite."
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Pain resistance may be done better as an edge, though. ~J |
Not really, I've already had this out with Clockwock Lime (I Think)
Granted it's good enough to be takable though
All of this debate over whether ultrasound is technological or not is pretty much irrelevant. The real problem here is that the Improved Sense power is just that: an improved sense. Sensory organs are by their very nature passive; eyes don't emit light waves; ears don't emit sound waves; noses don't emit smells, and so on. Both eye-lights and the ultrasound emission part of ultrasound vision are active (motor) functions, and therefore inelligable for the Improved Sense power.
Now stop mucking up my thread with your childish whining!
I'm looking for good adept archtypes, perferably other than guy-from-John-Woo-movie, Pai Mei, or the Invisible Man.
Now stop mucking up my thread with your childish whining!
I'm looking for good adept archtypes, perferably other than guy-from-John-Woo-movie, Pai Mei, or the Invisible Man.
Ah. So adept powers can alter the effects of gravity, they can make a punch do Deadly damage, they can make you move super-fast, they can let you adhere to walls, and they can /nullify/ sound...but they can't create it.
Yep. That makes sense.
Yep. That makes sense.
| QUOTE (Kakkaraun) |
| Ah. So adept powers can alter the effects of gravity, they can make a punch do Deadly damage, they can make you move super-fast, they can let you adhere to walls, and they can /nullify/ sound...but they can't create it. Yep. That makes sense. |
Wow. At-last you have achieved the state of perfect imbalance between mind and reality. I think you are ready to make rules!
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