It was stupidity on the wounded guys part, and ignorance and carelessness on his replacement on Duty.

Original Guard Loaded and chambered round in the pistol (unauthorized) and then when guard change happened, not only did he not mention it, but the replacement guard one hand checked his pistol (tried to cycle slide one handed to verify gun empty), which he dropped, and because the round was chambered, the pistol fired... round entered the arm of the victim, into the chest cavity, where it bounced around and hit front and rear plates of the body armor, causing, essentially, multiple gunshot wounds. Round eventually exited through the opposite arm from entry. He ended up with entry and exit wounds to both arms (through the side of the body armor) and 4 entry/exit wounds on each facing (front and back) of the torso. Never would have believed it possible had it not happened. Hospital was only a few minutes away from the [Redacted] in Camp [Redacted]. Guy died 45 minutes later. Not really much they could do for the guy (lungs pulverized, heart ruptured, almost all his chest cavity bone structure was damaged or destroyed in some manner (internal bouncing from bones prior/in-between to hitting armor plates) and Massive trauma to the other organs).

1 Round with the equivalent of about a dozen wound paths (.45 FMJ)... Had it been Shadowrun, he would likely have lived, since he survived for 45 minutes in that state. Not sure how, though. It was pretty gruesome.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/08/world/as...ed=all&_r=0

The fatality rates in Afghanistan for wounded soldiers were well under 10% in 2011, ~13% for rifle and machinegun hits. I've personally met at least one soldier who came back with over 50% full-body 3rd degree burns and is up and walking around again these days. A burn rehab tech I know worked with a couple that were over 90%. Modern medical science is a hell of a thing.

Interesting... What you call tense and exciting I always called boring and tedious. Combat took WAY too long in SR3 in my opinion. Combats sped up vastly in SR4. Most of that was due to the Removal of variable TN's. I HATED Variable TN's. Even when I was the benefactor of them more often than not.

That said... I had a LOT of fun in SR3... I just have VASTLY MORE fun in SR4A.

In reality having body armor that won't stop the bullet does nothing useful for you. Unlike SR, wearing soft pistol armor when faced with a guy with a rifle just makes you slower to move compared to someone not wearing armor, it won't actually help reduce the damage.

There was an interesting study done of Vietnam USMC casualties comparing death rates due to rifle fire between units that tended to enforce the wearing of flack jackets to those that tended to not. The study showed that the death rate appeared higher among marines who were wearing flack jackets then with those who were not. Presumably this was due to the bullet upsetting due to the jacket and not doing the typical through and through wound typicaly of 7.62x39mm bullets. (Flack jackets were designed to stop artillery and mine fragmentation, not bullets of any kind.) This is at most suggestive as the study couldn't actually determine from records whether the victim was in fact wearing a flack jacket and whether the bullet had penetrated it on entry.

I agree that it took too long, but I think there were better solutions than nuking the site from orbit. A modification to restrict TNs from 2 to 6 and the modification of Combat Pool down to relatively few dice would've helped.

Nothing of that contradicts my point, though.

How do you cycle a slide one-handed? Brace the gun against your thigh/other object? Because that seems breathtakingly stupid.

Depending on the gun, it's possible to do so by holding the grip firmly with the webbing between thumb and forefinger, wrapping your hand around the back of the slide (around the rear sight, basically), and doing a press-check that way.

It's harder to describe than to show (though somehow this guy still makes the video take about a minute, you can skip to about 38-40 seconds in): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fOrYM-nuBO4

I remember several incidents of marines checking for rounds by sliding a pistol against their legs and shooting themselves, or practicing chambering a round one-handed in case they were wounded in one arm - stuff like that.

It was something we made fun of as Air Force guys (and come on, what else were we gonna make fun of them for, not having air conditioning all the time like we did?)

There have been some huge changes in the way battlefield medicine is being practiced throughout the Iraq wars and in Afghanistan. Survival rates also greatly increased when commanders held their subordinates responsible for actually wearing their body armor which had been a large problem during the early part of the conflict. Now a group of doctors and nurses, driving with twelve backpacks and two humvees can have a forward trauma center built from a raw patch of sand in 60 minutes, with patients on the table being stabilized in that time.

I note, again, the ~13% fatality rate for rifle and machinegun hits quoted there. Another article (here) quotes the overall lethality rate of gunshot wounds in OIF to be 4.9%.



This directly contradicts your statement that most people hit with multiple gunshot wounds, even while armored, die.

Far as I understand, "rifle and machinegun hits" include glancing hits with single bullet and hits on extremities; the case I was talking about is multiple solid hits on the torso - such as rolling a few net successes when shooting a burst.

It was breathtakingly stupid, as evidenced by what happened when he dropped the weapon. Critias has the right of it, though. Thumb behind the grip, hand on top of slide. Contract hand and the slide will move backwards (though not through a full cycle, but enough to check if chamber is loaded).

Heh... Yeah, sometime us Marines do some really stupid things. Comes with the territory, I think.

For what its worth: I'm still lurking around every now and then. RL just got a lot busier, and I'm not all that enamored with SR5.

Knasser: if you happen back around, shoot me a PM. It's good to see you're still kicking around out there, and I'd love to chat about WH40K RPG. We were often of like mind when it came to SR, so I'd be interested to hear your take on DH.

Don't forget their chow lines compared to what we had in the AF .

Holy shit. I hope I never have a round richoet in my insides because I did I did an innocent chamber check. I guess I usually use two hands.

Hi knasser, nice to read you again!

Sorry Blade, you are several days late i am afraid . .

Hey, while you may have been the gourmets of the Military (though I would say that the Navy gives you a run for that title), the Corps' chow lines were VERY substantial. I never went hungry, and there were some very good chow halls on Pendleton, if you were willing to make the drives to Mainside or the Training areas. Otherwise, not too shabby.

Most intelligent people do not do stupid things with weapons... Most.
Oftentimes, stupidity results in some pretty gruesome things, and when you are messing around with weapons and explosives (got a real doozy of a stupidity story for that one), it can get downright ugly. The Pistol incident was one of the uglier ones. Sadly, it was not the guy who performed the pistol check that was the victim [of the weapon firing] - it was the guy who had just gone off duty. Of course, they were BOTH acting stupidly and irresponsibly. And the Corporal of the Guard was just as guilty, as he failed in his duty during the Guard Change for expediency's sake (he did not get out of the vehicle and change the guard, complete with weapons check, as was his duty).

I've never had really BAD chow in any service's bases (did alot of stuff on joint bases) - but I've yet to find an MRE I would eat unless I had no other choice. I'd be tempted to go shoot some random guy's goat first for grilling.

Indeed... Service Chow halls are pretty good eats. Navy Base Subic though (when it was there) was more than just exceptional...
Heh... MRE's ain't all that bad. Got to be a real gourmet with MRE's in my day.

Oh, come on! You can't invoke a story without telling it!

MRE's?
That partly edible sludge with the burnable "cookie" that you can otherwise use to patch the hull of a tank?

All right...
On the demolitions range in Pendleton... Lots of newbies getting in some actual training on setting up demo charges, in various configurations (Timed, Fused, Electrical), with various types of explosives (Cratering charges, Dynamite (who uses that anymore), TNT, Comp B, C4, Det Cord, etc). We are going over basic safety and showing all the equipment we would be using, and provided in depth reasons for why we do the things in the way that we do them. Took about 90 minutes to make sure everyone understood the ramifications of messing with things that can spread your component molecules all over the place.

Now, we are working the range, blowing stuff up (really, the most fun aspect of demolition in my book ) and what not, when this idiot gets the bright idea to show off (newbies, remember) and gathers a bunch of guys (also newbies) to show them just how knowledgeable he is. So, he decides to show them that crimping a blasting cap in the middle of the cap is not a very bright idea (Seriously, that was apparently what he told them). He takes the cap, grasps it in his left hand, takes the crimpers and wraps them around the middle of the cap, places his hands at his hip, and then Crimps. Needless to say, he blew off several fingers, mangled the hand into un-recognition and not only shrapnelized his hip, torso and arms (not only with cap fragments but with bone fragments), but also causes some minor burn and shrapnel damage to several people around him.

After treating the injuries of him and those around him, and alerting the RSO of the need for Medical personnel, all I could do was shake my head and stand amazed at the utter stupidity of some people.

Darwinism is a Harsh Mistress.

They are very edible... Even better when you carry around a few spices with you.
The heat tab on the other hand, while functional, really sucks. Cooking with C4 is so much better as it burns cleaner, and generates awesome responses from those around you when you tell them what you are cooking with (generally expressions of horror and fear - which is pretty funny sometimes... Hey, you gotta get your kicks wherever you can in a combat zone). Of course, unless you are in a combat zone with access to said explosives, well, then you are stuck with the Heat tab.

I love MREs. I bring them camping and eat them whenever I have an excuse. They're so good!

So, he decided to demonstrate the unwisdom of crimping a blasting cap in the middle... by crimping a blasting cap in the middle? Did he win a Darwin award by self-sterilization?

Sounds like it was a very effective demonstration

And everyone that day learned the lesson.
Seriously, his utter commitment in demonstrating the dangers of doing such a thing, by actually doing it, could be considered a true work of genius though .

Kids, you shouldn't clean your gun while loaded, because you may end up shooting yourself
Shoots himself while cleaning the gun to better demonstrate
Traumatized kids will always remember this and will never clean their guns while loaded.

Something like that, yes. His reproductive bits were not damaged, so he probably procreated... possibly to the detriment of another generation.

Well, Yeah, it was...

ROFL - Never thought about it that way, but Yes...

In SR, probably a mix of magic and medical tech to stabilize him, burn a point of edge (for the dumb luck of surviving and not bleeding out), and then get a cyber torso with replacement (vat grown) organs.

Indeed...

MREs are fine to eat...just not exclusively, and for a long period, unless you like getting blocked up something fierce.

From an old hand - Eat the Peanut Butter packs to Block Up, and the Cheese packs to release.
Not exactly sure WHY that works, but it does.

Horses for courses I guess.

MREs have a fairly low fiber content, which is probably why they cause so many problems. Supplementing with added fiber would probably help. They're not supposed to be eaten for extended periods anyhow.


-k

Obviously the real culprit is that cheese pack. Something in there must be causing your bowels to loose themselves.

This is great for wilderness camping and exploration. You poop when you choose. If you're only out for a couple of days you can avoid pooping till you get back and then activate cheese packs and instant coffee.

I hope this made you consider thecommitment of his sacrifice instead of remembering as a fool

so if the cheese has wireless enabled is it only a simple action to loosen the bowels?

Though it was entertaining, I am still going with Foolish.

Free Action, actually. Hope you are close to the waste facilities.

You have to watch out for someone hacking the cheese while it's in your intestines. The cheese doesn't work properly unless wireless is active.

So if someone 'bricks' your wireless cheese while enroute through the digestive tract, you are not only blocked up but probably gonna need a street doc to fix that one?

Or a nanite enema maybe.

IMO the hardtack tastes not so bad. It's just...well, hard.

As for camping food, I'll stick with one pack of steak per person and day, thanks

Wow, has it really been that long?! I remember coming to this place round 94 for info on 1st/2nd Ed and getting into the Dumpshock/Shadowland war a bit after. I can't say I've played a game of SR in the last 10 years but, it was always a fun read -- the similarity between the 80's outlook and today is surprising in truth (where are ya Dunk?! We need ya!). Its been fun and I'll probably continue to read the board and maybe some books but, I doubt I'll ever play again unless I can find a group who likes 3rd (same with D&D, odd that). Good luck to ya'll and may the new year bring you fortune, or at least some luck.