Time to revive an old thread. Plus since I picked up the reprinted M&M recently, my thoughts have turned again to bioware type characters. I don't necessarially like the way they handled bioware in this new version, but I can run with it.
As for names:
Marvel the RPG used to call these types of characters "Altered Humans" I think. Though I'm not fond of the name use. Bioborg is a RIFTS term I believe, which I kinda like. Bioroids make me think: Robotech.
Heh. I could see a bunch of bioware modded superpeople calling themselves "Khans".
Full Version: Genetic Engineering and Bioware
Interesting thread to read through. I work in genetics, so I have a little bit of perspective on some of this.
I haven't read through M&M or SOTA63 yet, so I'm afraid I'm taking the thread out of context. Given that fact, a couple of things to consider based on Real Life ™.
- Humans with the extensive genetic modifications suggested here would most likely be sterile. That's not a big disadvantage from a game perspective, but it could be an interesting role playing hook.
- Genetic manipulation in the world of Shadowrun *should* be trivially easy to perform. However, I'm saying that without knowing much about the game world version of nanotech and the limitations of "healing" magic. The reason people aren't easily genetically modified now is that we don't have magic or nanotech to perform the manipulations.
As far as names go -- the most likely name that the scientific community would apply to these, is the same one currently used for genetically engineered animals -- "Chimeras".
I haven't read through M&M or SOTA63 yet, so I'm afraid I'm taking the thread out of context. Given that fact, a couple of things to consider based on Real Life ™.
- Humans with the extensive genetic modifications suggested here would most likely be sterile. That's not a big disadvantage from a game perspective, but it could be an interesting role playing hook.
- Genetic manipulation in the world of Shadowrun *should* be trivially easy to perform. However, I'm saying that without knowing much about the game world version of nanotech and the limitations of "healing" magic. The reason people aren't easily genetically modified now is that we don't have magic or nanotech to perform the manipulations.
As far as names go -- the most likely name that the scientific community would apply to these, is the same one currently used for genetically engineered animals -- "Chimeras".
As a GM, I have done a character who was actually a viable clone. *wallows in the memories* Between cloning technology and the ability to alter memories (which would allow one to "implant" skills), it's a fun concept... 
| QUOTE (the_dunner) |
| As far as names go -- the most likely name that the scientific community would apply to these, is the same one currently used for genetically engineered animals -- "Chimeras". |
Heh. Too cool. I've been using the term "manticore" as a slang for genetically-modified character (both in Shadowrun and elsehwere) since even before Dark Angel. They're basically chimera with a human head.
It's nice to see it's kinda close to what the scientific community came up with.
| QUOTE (Voran) |
| Bioroids make me think: Robotech. |
That's a Transhuman Space reference I think.
I just prefer the term vatjob.
| QUOTE |
| I just prefer the term vatjob. |
Skin-Job is nice too
Nah, vatjobs better. That way when they go mentally unstable they're nutjob vatjobs.
For those discussing the SR genetic timeline, Shadowtech introduces the genetech rules in 2052. What year is SR now? 2065?
Bioroids were in Robotech.
And finally, what were replicants? Clones, robots, what? And did they dream of electric sheep?
Bioroids were in Robotech.
And finally, what were replicants? Clones, robots, what? And did they dream of electric sheep?
Isn't Hitomi from Appleseed a "bioroid"?
the year is 2063, going on 2064.
I've always considered replicants to be Cyborgs much like the Terminator but with less metal and more flesh, I could be wrong though.
As for whether they dream of electric sheep you'll just have to go and ask Roy Batty...
Bioware appeared in 2052 and were now on to 2064, since there must've been research going on before 52, it might not be such a great stretch to have an altered/transgenic/chimeric teenager running about in 2064. He'd be young sure, but with those enhanced capabilities people might be willing to hire the "kid" anyway.
As for whether they dream of electric sheep you'll just have to go and ask Roy Batty...
Bioware appeared in 2052 and were now on to 2064, since there must've been research going on before 52, it might not be such a great stretch to have an altered/transgenic/chimeric teenager running about in 2064. He'd be young sure, but with those enhanced capabilities people might be willing to hire the "kid" anyway.
Actually, replicants are totally synthetic. And they only dream of electric sheep if that was the foundation memory initially programmed. 
The outlawing of replicants lead to the development of the soldiers in the movie SOLDIER, since humans then had to fight their own wars. Soldier takes place in the same universe, FYI.
The outlawing of replicants lead to the development of the soldiers in the movie SOLDIER, since humans then had to fight their own wars. Soldier takes place in the same universe, FYI.
i hadn't heard that until a few weeks ago. now that i think about it, i think the guys behind Soldier may have missed the point of Do Androids Dream / Bladerunner.
Er, writer wise, it was the same David Webb Peoples That did Blade Runner.
The point that Deckard got from the movie (which is very different in the original cut vs the Director's Cut) doesn't mean the world is going to change. Blade Runner was a story about a single rather insignificant even in the scheme of the universe in which it resided.
The point that Deckard got from the movie (which is very different in the original cut vs the Director's Cut) doesn't mean the world is going to change. Blade Runner was a story about a single rather insignificant even in the scheme of the universe in which it resided.
I don't have M&M and I don't have my Shadowtech on hand, but since I have a passing knowledge of genetics, I'm going to add my 2 nuyen, assuming that you could actually direct the growth of a bioware-organ.
Certain biowares would be problematic from birth. Anything that enhances your immune system or affects your hormonal state would be very very bad for developing embryos/young. Metabolic enhancement would cause you to prematurely age, and likely to be sterile.
Anything that relies on neural connections, such as boosted reflexes, are possible, but are more likey to have random success. Right now, we have some ability to wire up your head, but procedure is more haphazard than it sounds. For instance, there's a headset that allows blind people to see via connecting directly to the parts of the brain that deal with visual senses. The protocol pretty much calls for laying down wires near neurons and hoping the right ones interact and any signal from the 'wrong' neurons don't mess you up to bad. They likely have a bit more understanding of brain wiring but is most likely derived from adults; research into brain development have to be light years ahead of what we have now.
Anything that enchances muscle strength would likely be very bad. Muscle contraction uses the same molecular mechanisms as nerve growth and cellular differentiation; depending on the way it would 'actually' work, you could have a baby with successful muscle aug, but she'll always have the intelligence of a 2 year old and wear her liver just above her right knee.
Summation- It could definitely work within reason, but the likelyhood of it being successful is pretty low. Dolly the Sheep was 1 out of 250 or so attempts. It might not be cost effective for a corp to try and grow a superarmy. Better to just take trolls, implant with cranial bombs and train/arm them for war.
Certain biowares would be problematic from birth. Anything that enhances your immune system or affects your hormonal state would be very very bad for developing embryos/young. Metabolic enhancement would cause you to prematurely age, and likely to be sterile.
Anything that relies on neural connections, such as boosted reflexes, are possible, but are more likey to have random success. Right now, we have some ability to wire up your head, but procedure is more haphazard than it sounds. For instance, there's a headset that allows blind people to see via connecting directly to the parts of the brain that deal with visual senses. The protocol pretty much calls for laying down wires near neurons and hoping the right ones interact and any signal from the 'wrong' neurons don't mess you up to bad. They likely have a bit more understanding of brain wiring but is most likely derived from adults; research into brain development have to be light years ahead of what we have now.
Anything that enchances muscle strength would likely be very bad. Muscle contraction uses the same molecular mechanisms as nerve growth and cellular differentiation; depending on the way it would 'actually' work, you could have a baby with successful muscle aug, but she'll always have the intelligence of a 2 year old and wear her liver just above her right knee.
Summation- It could definitely work within reason, but the likelyhood of it being successful is pretty low. Dolly the Sheep was 1 out of 250 or so attempts. It might not be cost effective for a corp to try and grow a superarmy. Better to just take trolls, implant with cranial bombs and train/arm them for war.
well, the point of DAD and the director's cut of BR was that replicants were just as human as humans are. the point of Soldier was that replicants could never be as good as home-grown humans--that humans are better because of their humanity. haven't seen the non-director's cut of BR, so i can't comment on that.
Bioroid was indeed used for the "new breed" in Appleseed (like Hitomie)
Vatjobs is a common term. "Soldier" is actually quite old (Pournelles WarWorld) and also used for enhanced humans.
As for "building them": If you have enough time, around 100 of each sex should be enough...
Birdy
Vatjobs is a common term. "Soldier" is actually quite old (Pournelles WarWorld) and also used for enhanced humans.
As for "building them": If you have enough time, around 100 of each sex should be enough...
Birdy
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| well, the point of DAD and the director's cut of BR was that replicants were just as human as humans are. the point of Soldier was that replicants could never be as good as home-grown humans--that humans are better because of their humanity. haven't seen the non-director's cut of BR, so i can't comment on that. |
There were no replicants in Soldier. Todd's group was conditioned humans because it was a project to replace the replicants whose use had been outlawed. The movie was more a theses on experience over natural ability IMHO.
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