What, you expect them to have playtested the Technomancers since the release to find out how terrible they are as implemented and fix them in the matrix book? That's crazy talk. We're going to instead get like 20 pages devoted to Matrix-fu techniques most people will never use.

Including the much anticipated "Invoke Wireless", which allows a Technomancer to give a non-electrical object Wireless Connectivity, giving it access to special Wireless Bonuses as well as making it hackable!

Some street punk charges at you with a baseball bat? Invoke Wireless on it, instantly turning it into a Wireless Connected object!

While the effect is active, the item will gain a special bonus based on object type as listed in the Invoke Wireles Effects Table - in the case of the baseball bat, it will gain +1 Accuracy. The tradeoff is that it will now be susceptible to Hacking, allowing you to Brick the baseball bat, making it impossible for it to be used as a weapon until repaired.

~Umi

That's hitting a bit too close for comfort . . .

If I remember Unwired correctly, the 20 pages that most people never use are the only parts that are good in-game. The way I remember it, deckers (and probably technomancers) just had more work to do and more necessary programs with the same skills and resources as before. Good ideas, not as good implementation.

Trolls just suffered from the change sr4 added where stats they had penalties in mattered more for skill+stat tests, and strength and body weren't used much. Unless your GM used the fatigue rules and had you do athletic things, you were only useful as a literal combat monster.

I have to seriously wonder about the playtest process some companies use. My limited experience is that a lot of the time, you get limited character options (like for D&D Next, how you can only play up to 5th level in the public tests) and not a lot of feedback beyond "That's okay" and "that really stinks". And sometimes, the latter is ignored.

You don't need a GM to make you do athletic things. You choose to do them on your own because they're fricken' useful.

You're trying to get the drop on some Yakuza thugs inside a warehouse. Sure, you could walk in through the front door and start a shootout, or you could climb onto the roof and pick them off through the skylights. "But I don't have climbing gear!" That's okay, the Troll has a Strength of 9 and a Climbing skill of 5 with a Specialization in Freehand, so they roll 16 dice before modifiers - enough to manage even a difficult climb with relative ease.

You're trying to break into a corporate office of the twelfth floor of a building, but the interior security is tight. You can try to bluff, sneak, or fight your way through the interior, or the Troll can use their massive strength, robust skill, and some gecko tape gloves to scale the outside of the building, getting to the twelfth floor without being noticed.

You've successfully snuck into a gang controlled apartment complex to have a "chat" with one of the residents while the landlords are out. Suddenly the gang in question shows up earlier than you expected. Although they don't know you're there, your escape route through the lower floors of the building is now cut off. You can try to fight your way out in close quarters in the enemy's home ground, or you send the Troll out the window to climb down and arrange some sort of distraction in the street to lure the gang out and allow the team to escape.

Mobility is a valuable asset, as is having the high ground. If you can travel where others cannot, or where they won't expect you to go and won't be watching, or where you have more cover and better visibility than they do, or whatever else, you gain a huge edge over the opposition. If you can scale a wall to get someplace while others have to pack into an elevator or climb a staircase, you can avoid traps and ambushes in those dangerous close quarters. There are countless benefits to being able to climb like a gecko.

~Umi

of course not. what kind of fool do you take me for?

i'm expecting them to release completely untested rules that are obscenely broken for technomancers. some of them will be complete and utter trash, but some of them will be ludicrously overpowered, and will do stuff like allow you to shoot force 12 lightning bolts (charged via wireless induction through the matrix) from your hands, using your cybercombat skill and all your matrix modifiers on the attack roll. or something else equally stupid. i mean, heaven forbid anyone should be required to pick up a weapon in the meat world to be combat-effective in the meat world. [sarcasm] that would just be awful. [/sarcasm]

Well it's not like Mages have to pick up weapons in the meat world to be combat-effective in the meat world...

~Umi

magicians are meat-world focused. sure, they can go to the astral. and for the most part, that doesn't even matter. for the most part, at least in recent editions, the metaplanes are the same. you can go there, and it mostly doesn't matter in the slightest.

magicians are not focused on the astral plane or the metaplanes, at least not in this edition. those things certainly exist, and magicians can access them, but let's face it; if there were two magicians, one of which was incredibly competent in the astral and the metaplanes but completely helpless in the meat world, the other of which was completely helpless in the astral and metaplanes (or even incapable of accessing either of them at all) but incredibly competent in the meat world, which one would you be more inclined to hire for pretty much anything other than bringing about the final death of a free spirit?

yeah, the astral and metaplanes are there. no, they aren't a big deal. people make perfectly functional magicians while largely ignoring that aspect almost entirely, and it's just not a big deal. the only thing anyone *really* cares about is assensing for the most part... and they care about that because it can tell them things about the meat world, like how much cyber someone has in the meat world, or the location of a barrier that will prevent their spells and spirits from passing through easily in the meat world.

a magician character is, in general, focused on the meat world. their skills primarily revolve around the meat world, their special abilities primarily revolve around the meat world, and the one thing most people care about that requires access to the astral or the metaplanes is being able to perceive things that exist in the meat world.

Honestly, I don't have that much faith in the developers. I expect a bunch of new tricks and abilities that sound really cool, but turn out to be completely worthless in actual play. For example, I expect there will be lots more sprite types coming out, but I doubt they'll fix the sprite rules so they can stick around long enough to actually do anything.


To be fair, with the combat spell nerf in SR5, the balance between combat spells and guns has become more of a toss-up. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing: it used to be that combat only lasted until the mage cast Stunball.

Plus 30 pages of data bomb rules

Back to topic, please.

I have often found that Mages are far more effective with a Weapon in their hand, rather than always relying upon their magic for everything. ESPECIALLY if they are a Troll.

True, but that's a matter of Drain. If you can reliably soak your Drain, you essentially have "inifinite ammo" and don't have to fall back on your physical guns or melee weapons.

~Umi

I have never had a point where any of my characters have EVER run out of Ammo.

In toto, yes, but surely you've had to reload?

Anyway, my point is less about ammo anyway and more about the relative benefit of spells over mere bullets. If you can just cast spells forever instead of popping off pistol rounds, why wouldn't you?

~Umi

Maybe once or twice over the years. Definitely between firefights, but not in the middle of one to my memory. Of course, most of my weapons had more than enough ammunition. For example. My Mystic Adept had a Modified Shiawase Arms Tactical Model 73 with Dual Clips - MORE than enough rounds for several DAYS worth of shooting.

Looks like you had a Ghost Edit there... I think there are far more interesting ways to take Drain than by throwing combat spells willy nilly. *shrug*

In combat? Not really. When I play shooters, they're usually "one shot, one kill". Since the average pistol has 15 rounds, that would mean I just killed 15 opponents, which is larger than any squad I could face and survive. Even in Sr5, it seldom takes me more than two shots to down an enemy, so ammo never becomes a factor.

Yeah, sorry about that last minute addition, thought I could get in quick enough.

That said, TJ, we've talked about you being the exception.

For every player like yourself that runs around with Dual Clips, there are a handful of players who use Warhawks or the like with 6 or so shots. And for every player like yourself that operates with precision and tactics, there are a handful who go in guns blazing, throwing lead willy nilly, spraying and praying. I know you like your One Shot, One Kill, but not every player or character operates that way.

Anyways, back to Trolls I guess? Before we get the Grinder?

Edit: Hiiii Cain! Didn't see your post while I was typing this out, but I think it works to address your style too!

The problem I have with your philosophy is that you assume you'll always hit with every shot, and that you'll always be using a weapon with a decent ammo capacity, and that you'll always be facing small groups of enemies. Try taking on a dozen foes behind good cover in darkness with a six-shot revolver, tell me how often you end up reloading.

~Umi

Pretty Much This, Yes.

In that situation, I would disengage and extract the best way I could. Preferably with something between myself and them. Any good Elemental Wall will tend to do the trick.

Unless I was a Tank Troll or Tank Ork, then it would be a different story.

It seems bizarre to me that you two never ever miss. What's the point of combat, then? You aren't making rolls to attack, you're just spending Simple Actions to instantly kill mooks.

~Umi

I miss all the time, but I am often not the one they need to worry about. There ARE other team members about to give the assist. And IF THEY DO worry about me, well then they usually do not see the real threat until it is too late, if at all.

Trolls get nerfed in some significant ways in SR5, especially in requiring an A or B priority to be a troll. That means if you are a street samurai, needing A or B for resources, that your Attributes will be C, and skills D, which generally sticks you squarely in the stereotypical role of the troll who is big and strong, but stupid and clumsy. It is not all bad, though. Skin and bone enhancements tend to be on the cheap side, now, and the new rules for augmented limits mean that a troll can get up to 9 augmented Agility, rather than 7. None of the troll archetypes really impress me, mainly due to their weak Agility ratings. The bounty hunter is improved from SR4, but that is damning with faint praise.

The biggest difference from SR4 is that rather than getting a bit of a bonus from the troll "package deal", trolls suffer a slight penalty - kind of like elves in SR4, only that was more acceptable, because the elf package deal had more useful bonuses and no significant drawbacks.

Trolls just need to start at Priority C. Problem solved.

Please, contain your tokens of thanks and adulation. Just doing my job.

~Umi

When I play shooters, I play really good shooters. But even when I'm not playing characters that can reliably one-shot a mook, Shadowrun combat seldom goes on long enough that ammo becomes an issue. If I'm fighting a dozen well-armed, capable opponents with cover (and I'm in the open), I'm going to get killed long before I run out of bullets or need to reload.

Since every good team has a good shooter on it (regardless of rather or not I'm playing it), a lot of combats are over within the first three rounds.... sometimes the first two. And unless the opposition has overwhelming numbers, six rounds is more than enough for a non-shooter, and fifteen (the capacity of a Predator, IIRC) is more than enough for a whole enemy squad. If you're facing more than fifteen people, you might want to consider a solution other than combat anyway.

Would that your word on this was Gospel. Not a hard House Rule to implement, though.

Well then, someone get me CGL on the line. Also find my lawyer.

And a pair of pants. Gonna need those too. Can't make Gospel without you have some finely girded loins.

~Umi

Pants optional Fridays?

Aaand this is why you do not get to have nice furniture.....

Kilts and nice furniture are mutally exclusive now? More propaganda from the Unbifurcated Garment Defamation League!

~Umi