Here here.

I know Haze is one of the serial rapists, but who is the other one?

Kane. For reference: the mass murderers are Kane and Puck.

Names with just 4 letters = Evil


Names with 6 letters on the other hand = Best

Does this mean Bull may be evil?

Yes, but at his age its a much slower evil.

*sound of a Panther Cannon round hitting nearby*

Thankfully less accurate too... but not going to stick around for him to walk his shots...

*scurries off*

Now that you say it ...

Let's keep this simple: VITAS x2-3, minimum.

I hope you didn't like living in the sixth world.

On a sidenote, I'm kind of hoping this is setting up a few new AIs to pop back and slap the nanites down. To, of course, later reveal this whole thing was their idea.

Actually, the symptoms are treatable and manageable with a few good rolls. There're worse diseases in sR4 (HMHVV-Krieger, anyone?). And it was strongly hinted there might be a cure later on. It might make nanotech and AI a lot more suspect and change perception away from the naive-anoying transhumanist tone of SR4, which, in my book, actualy is a good thing.

On a different note, does Stolen Souls mention anything about the NEMA Quarantine zone in Boston?

My primary character has like... 14 active contacts in Boston plus his son.

Do I need to break my merc contract and go on a rampage to extract people I like from beantown?

There are several hints that the Sybil Virus is indeed the reason the NEMA was set up. In-game, though, Stolen Souls is set before NEMA is set up, before the dragon bursts out of the NeoNET HQ and before the rainbow rain.

You will in all likelyhood need to, but good luck convincing your GM this is not metagaming.

So, no details as to where the QZ actually lay?

Grrr. I now have a burning need to know.

Is there any information on this other than @jackpoint2075's twitter stream?

There will be a dedicated sourcebook, 'Lockdown', which is apparently in layout and is already referred to as upcoming release in Stolen Souls.

[Fractal profanity]

Well then. Schrodinger's police state it is...

Thanks for the heads up, though. I'd have been pissed if I picked up SS only to find out the details I most care about aren't covered at all.

Well, it has a lot on the disease which matches the descriptions on Twitter. Not a total no-show, but it really is not the NEMA sourcebook. However, if that is really Sybil ... your character might consider mercy killing them. If they haven't been turned already (though in that case, extreme prejudice, anyway).

That, or REALLY stock up money for expensive treatment (not cure, but the disease is somewhat manageable as of Stolen Souls).

Fair.

As far as my character is concerned there are only really two details: Is Dwarftown (The badass underground suburb the dwarves built) locked down? If so, who is in the way?

As you can tell his survival instincts aren't always the greatest.

No news on the Underground, I think, but I'll check. As for who is in the way: UCAS army, NeoNET armed forces, arguably Celedyr.

Can a few viral particles of Krieger replicate, build a sensor array to scan for people trying to disinfect the place and release a bunch of Cutters when a threat does show up?


That was the idea. Self-replicating nanites are exactly the opposite direction

So 50-75% of the population, clustered in the most technologically advanced and dense parts of the world? Seems like a good day for the NaN.

No, but they have (or had in SR4) aerosol infection, touch infection and fluid contact infection. Plus, HMHVV has the Ghoul and it's astral sight to do the scanning for it.


Sure, that's a brainfart.Though Grey Goo isn't exactly google-style endearing. Unless you're a member of the Pirate Party.

a) You're still clinging to what the author has admitted was a simple mix-up
b) Once the Ghoul is dead, HMHVV seizes to be a problem unless you're planning to bathe in his blood. Shoot a guy with CFD and sterilize the place, the few remaining nanites can replicate, build other kinds of nanites...

Self-replication is a can of worms of astronomic proportions, no way around it

If it was errata'd, you'd have a point.


It appeared to me they can only replicate inside a host. Outside they sit and wait, and degenerate. Though it'S not written very conclusively in the rules. I have to go by the fluff here. Also, latent carrier anyone?

But hey, we both know you are extremely fond of playable infected and I am very much not, so maybe we should just drop this. My point was: CFD is not much worse than most statted diseases in SR. I mean, just check out the awakened leprosy that infects your printed books.

alternately, since everything is wireless in SR5, (and nanites that need to communicate with each other kinda do need to be wireless, so for once it actually kinda makes sense - at very low range, mind you, as opposed to the "accessible from anywhere in the matrix" kind of wireless), the disease should be very easy to treat. considering you have an absolutely tiny device that likely won't hold up well to electrical surges and has an antenna that can receive EMF signals...

alternately, you could try a homegrown solution of just tazing people. obviously not without it's drawbacks, but then again, getting tazed does sound less sucky than having your mind rewritten by e-ghosts.

Yup. There's a reason the Grey Goo and Von Neumann machines are basic things to be avoided in any science fiction touching on nanotech.

Stolen Souls actually touches on this. Butch, the doc who conducted a lot of tests on CFD victims, tazed himself constantly to attempted to make sure he was nanotech free. However, some of the jackpointers point out his methods were unusually cruel and out of character, so may imply he is actually one of the infected now too. Which would make sense, since it'd be very difficult to do research on this stuff without falling victim to it.

ah, so these are apparently magical nanobots that somehow can handle electrical charges that are strong enough to shut down a car after a few uses.

Did the rules for nanotech in 4th ed kill nanohives after being tasered? Or is it just now that this breaks your suspension of disbelief?

First, I think I missed something.
There are references to Fast Jack, Riser, matrix prison camps and Celedyr I don’t get. Like there is another book or story out there you should read first. Does anyone of you know what the name of this book is? Is there anywhere a timeline for the Shadowrun plots with complete references to sourcebooks or the like?

---Review---
There's no accounting for taste. But the fluff is pretty good written. And if I say pretty good I am not talking about “Na I have read worse”. I am talking “hell this stuff scares me, WoW that was fun”.

They have some background information to Horizon, Evo, Shiawase and Co, also a complete chapter over Manhatten(2075). The writing about Manhatten(2075) is exhaustive and only miss a map.

Another big theme in this book is extraction. There are some chapters in this book about the how to do. And with this come game number for spells, powers, tool, vehicles and other stuff which could help to get the job done.

Personally I have a problem with the last one. Because this is old stuff adapted to new SR5 rules and should be published in the core rulebooks. But that is the new way of Catalyst to maximize profit and anybody should know for yourself to jump on it or not.

I also have a problem with the introduction of self-replicating nanite networks with the capacity of hosting multiple high level AIs. This kind of stuff is catapulting the SR world into a Diamond Age(Neal Stephenson) setting with no going back. Except for global mind wipe, history rewrite or losetech scenario.

Sum;
It’s a good written Deep Shadow Book. If you are looking for a rulebook, skip it. If you don’t like AI, takeover, techmagic, mindrape fluff, skip it. But if you like a good scare, want some stuff to beef up the paranoia of your players or some background about the “how to do” of extraction. You will have your fun.

For the record, "Butch" is a female ork. Not in fact a "he."

Although there are a lot of gender-confusing shadowrunners out there. Kia is a guy for example, as shown in Street Legends but there's an entry somewhere in 4th ed work that notes a "Ms. Kia."

Then there's Mika, a name which in many eastern cultures would be feminine, though in this case refers to a male. (there's a section in Stolen Souls even, pg 134, where Bull calls Mika a 'She').

But yeah, Butch is female.

By CGL standards, that IS errata


The human body is an extremely hostile environment and offers nothing the nanobots need (a few handfuls of silica seem to suffice), so they should actually be more potent outside. And of course wireless reception is better outside that watery flesh bag, I'm sure that gives some kind of bonus...

*shrug* i had generally ignored most nanotech rules in earlier editions to be honest. so far as i am aware, no rules specifically governing the interaction of nanobots and tasers exist in any edition of shadowrun.

there were, iirc, rules for taking significant amounts of damage causing a loss of nanobots in SR4, however. they may or may not have covered tasers in particular, or at least may have been broad enough to allow for dealing with electrical damage in general.

that said, it's not the nanohive that i have a problem with. it's the nanobots themselves. when they're that small and can communicate wirelessly, that means they're basically mostly antenna. and that means they've got a great system for conducting electricity straight into the rest of the nanobot. and electrical attacks that are strong enough to disable a car directed right into the middle of a nanobot should not end well for the nanobot at all.

but then, if you managed to get a corrupted nanobot hive in you, that would be easily detectable and easily removed (well, relatively speaking). also a lot harder to do than just getting some nanobots into you (although to be fair, that wouldn't be nearly as easy as some people might believe either; your body is fairly well designed to defend against attacks from nanobot-sized stuff actually. the same things that help protect you from viruses and bacteria will help against nanobots).

Because everything said in Shadowtalk is 100% true and accurate.

I think it's mostly in Storm Front...TL;DR version is that NeoNet/Celedyr were imprisoning E-Ghosts and feral AIs in a research facility, the mass escape from that lab is hinted to be the cause of the outbreak. Fastjack was one of the known people who caught the virus, when he realized he couldn't trust himself anymore he turned Jackpoint over to a council of 3(?) and rode into the sunset.

To be fair, there is a map. It's not very large or informative, being apparently comprised of all the NY maps in Rotten Apple, but it is a map.


Chlorinated chicken isn't food, despite what standards in some parts of the world might say.


Uhm ... firstly, the nanobots are designed to live in this environment. The earth's atmosphere is just as hostile an environment if you happen to be made of pure iron, besides. Secondly, soft nanites (nanites built from biological components) seem to be the majority of affected nanites. Finally, don't mix science fiction and actual science. That's like using a whodunit novel as a crime-fighting manual. It's really best just to handwaive magical nanites, like flux compensators and depolarized reversed warp tachyon flows.

You mean "all the world, except those parts where Wiesenhof and other big breeders have managed to co-opt the unwitting public and their fear of 'CHEMICALS!!!' into a masterwork of irony". Chlorine dioxide is already widely used in the EU to treat vegetables -- except when they're "organic" sprouts, which worked out really great. Cooling carcasses in water (which contains some disinfectant) is also practiced around the world, and obviously superior to just air-cooling them.

Yet somehow, the poultry industry has convinced the general public that we're all going to die if this stuff comes over here. As a result, we have greens fighting a proxy war to secure the profits of the companies they're trying to abolish, and afterwards they munch salad treated with the same chemical they've just declared to be the end of the world. Just. Priceless.



Where were we? Oh, right...

That is the actual in-universe science: "Despite modern techniques that provide nanites with protein-matched immune markers to stave off the worst, a living body is still an incredibly hostile environment, and sooner or later nanites are flushed or absorbed by the system." Which is the reason nanoware degrades over time unless replenished by the hive.

(And if the majority of CFD infections are from soft nanites, why do the victims feel compelled to ingest sand?)

Didn't they offer a compromise on the chicken for export by using a Vitamin C 'rinse' on the chlorinated chicken to eliminate any traces of chlorine remaining post treating?

Or maybe that was just one of the suppliers who was trying to find a solution both sides could agree to...

But yeah it gets complex navigating all the rules for the EU sometimes.



Because machines do not get metaphors and totally misunderstand the phrase 'Life's a Beach' so they equate Beach Sand = Life?

yeah otherwise, no clue.....

[Edit] I suppose even the soft nanites may have use for silica in their composition and stomach acid can certainly break it down.

Funny enough silica is also vital to the bodies immune system as it is used in the production of antibodies and antigens, both of which would probably be working against the shelf life of the soft nanites.

AI make nanites much better. Also in-game science and where most in-game science comes from (Deus).


Because CGL is just bad at coordinating writers? I don't really see how you can build nanites by breaking up one of the most stable compounds available, anyway.


Chlorine dioxide is not chlorine laced water or hypochloride. Some chemicals are different from other chemicals. Chlorine dioxide dissolves into chlorine ions (much like the chlorine component of sodium chloride) and is up for discussion. Chlorine laced water contains elemental chlorine as well as hypochlorine, which aren't healthy. Both are used to treat meats, especially seafoods and poultry. Both are banned under EU regulation, but legal in the US. One might well be without significant health risk. The other is not. It is also what I was referring to. Sorry if my term wasn't very clear; I'm not always as good as I want to be with technical terms in English.

End digression.

If nanite capabilities are improved, they're improved across the board. Therefore the performance outside the hostilities of the human body would still be better.

A Model T performed better on even roads than driving through the woods. Cars have vastly improved since then, but what previously was the preferable underground is still better.



We're trying to handwave a future of nanometer spider bots here, check any molecular forces at the door please

Has anyone an idea what happens if a CFD victim in Stage 3 or 4 (SS S.13) is forced into astal projection?

A metaplanar quest would infinitely conserve the body and make purging the nanites easier ... maybe.

Well, I'd assume that the new personality would have taken over the astral form too by that point. Since physical damage is reflected in astral space when you project.

Though, maybe if a mage projects while in Stage 2 he could keep his personality intact while projecting, since injury to the body wouldn't instantly translate to the astral. Though, the nanites would probably be able to overwrite the projecting mage's meat mind faster since he won't be able to actively defend against the nanites writing his brain.

CFD can't take over a body whose consciousness is currently elsewhere? Sheesh, body snatchers these days...

The review I got from a friend was, "22 pages of rules and they couldn't even get them right. If you want a source book on New York then this might be good. There are charts with stats for drones, but no text describing some of them. It could be some help to a mage or adept, but some of them are not in-line with 5th edition rules. Look here is a spell that says it acts just like a jammer, yet jammers don't work that way in 5th, they worked that way in 4th. The more stuff these guys publish, the less I want to buy their books, and I've loved Shadowrun from 1st edition."

This is yet another point where this whole plot falls apart for me.

Aside from losing Essence to implantation, the physical brain has no link to the astral form. By the setting's very own rules of separation of magic and technology, a nanobot invasion is not -capable- of altering an astral form beyond killing or reducing the Essence of the mage in question, possibly enough to render him mundane and leave his astral form stuck outside the body permanently.

This is why most/all of the possession mechanics previously used were spiritual, because replacing someone's astral form with a bug spirit/shedim/what have you is a doable thing.

I'm not following on what the problem is.

We know if you project and your astral form takes damage, when you get back to your meat body you're astral injuries will be reflected on your body. And visa versa, when you project and your body get's shot and you return to your body, your astral form now has a bullet hole in it.

So, if a nanite rewires your brain while you're out of your body, when you come back, those "injuries" will take shape on your astral form. But obviously the nanites can't hurt your astral form while you're out, only when you return. Its seems to be logically consistent with the rules.

Given that they cannot take over the Infected, because there's "no soul to take" (that is a quote), and the fact that Iamgo insinuates - to my memory of a book read a long time ago - an eGhost is indeed a trapped soul in the Matrix, I'd say yes. Besides, bodies in statsi during their astral forms' metaquest cannot be taken over by the bacterial flora in their digestive tracts, despite not being supplied with any nutrient, so that conserving effect might screw with the nanite bodysnatchers as well.

That's the thing. In order to effect an actual change as is being suggested, the nanites would have to -rebuild- the astral form. If the virus was also turning its victims into utter mundanes by destroying their essence, then it would make sense.

That's not true. If you cut someone's arm off, it is reflected in astral space once they project. You don't get a magical astral arm, you lose it. Injuries to your physical meat body effect your astral form.

And as for fighting the possessed nanites themselves, here's a fight fire with fire approach:

At last, rules on Renraku Manservants modified to NOT be gimpy anymore. I don't recall them being size Large before, though.

Also, pg 15 made me giggle: "...and finally this last group will often leave clues and taunting massages for the subject to locate."



-k

Talk about a surprise when you go in for your next appointment with your masseuse.

Oh you so tense, why you so tense?

You just big lazy slob, you all fat....


Hmmm..

I know some people who might pay extra for this.