Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Street dates
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2, 3
Cain
QUOTE (Shemhazai @ Jul 5 2014, 01:54 AM) *
Isn't a pile of money being paid to an outside company just for Shadowrun to be published? Do other RPGs have that disadvantage?

A lot of games are licensed properties. Edge of Empire has licensed Star Wars, and it's a very pricey book at $60 (although, as reported, it has much better production values than SR5). On the other hand, Green Ronin has licensed all the DC heroes, and offers a complete core book, rules and hero stats, for $40. It's hard to say that the licensing fees are the only reason for the price.
CaptRory
Different licenses do cost different amounts of money. While some are rather cheap you'd have a hard time making a profit on anything Disney unless it had ridiculously broad appeal.
Cain
QUOTE (CaptRory @ Jul 5 2014, 10:33 PM) *
Different licenses do cost different amounts of money. While some are rather cheap you'd have a hard time making a profit on anything Disney unless it had ridiculously broad appeal.

Yeah, but in absence of hard information, I can't see assuming that the Shadowrun license costs as much as or more than the Star Wars one.
hermit
Star Wars IS an IP that is owned by Disney, by the way.
Shemhazai
The price probably maximizes profit for whoever is in charge of setting it. We have no idea what their costs are.
Sengir
QUOTE (Adam @ Jul 4 2014, 05:33 PM) *
The price for the SR4-era core supplements was set in 2006/2007. That's eight years of raised costs to accommodate; inflation alone counts for over $5 by itself. Then add in color printing, color artwork, raised shipping costs, etc. and it's really easy to see how the cover price raises $15 (which the publisher only sees about a third of.)

You conveniently left out 4A...

QUOTE
I think the outcry about the price is actually a little surprising; when we announced we were raising the price of Transhuman from 44.99 to 49.99 last year, not a single person -- fan or retailer -- complained. And with SR5 priced at $60, it was obvious what the core supplements would be priced at.

Well, 5 dollars extra is obviously less than 15, and 50 dollars clearly is a psychological threshold for prices. And EP fans have not been consistently disappointed in the last couple of years (well, except those who happen to be MRAs...I still wonder how those felt drawn into the EP universe).

@hermit:
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 4 2014, 05:51 PM) *
It's somewhat bewildering that Pegasus publishes books at half the cost of the American books (core at €19,95 ($27.12), core expansions set at the same price).

Is the price of the expansions official? Because I haven't seen a price announcement anywhere, and I'd be surprised if they didn't mark up the expansions a bit after getting people hooked with the core...
Fatum
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 6 2014, 06:22 PM) *
And EP fans have not been consistently disappointed in the last couple of years (well, except those who happen to be MRAs...I still wonder how those felt drawn into the EP universe).
Do you mean Male Rights Activists by MRA? Isn't that a non-issue with resleeving? Most sleeves being asexual, to add to that.
hermit
QUOTE
The price probably maximizes profit for whoever is in charge of setting it. We have no idea what their costs are.

Depends. I always thought building a house in America was comparatively cheap.
Sengir
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 6 2014, 05:17 PM) *
Do you mean Male Rights Activists by MRA? Isn't that a non-issue with resleeving? Most sleeves being asexual, to add to that.

You'd certainly think so, but http://eclipsephase.com/regarding-mras
hermit
QUOTE
Is the price of the expansions official? Because I haven't seen a price announcement anywhere, and I'd be surprised if they didn't mark up the expansions a bit after getting people hooked with the core...

Well, Tigger confirmed they intend to stick to the price on the Pegasus boards. they're selling the improved gear cards (Wummenquartett) for €1,99, too.
bannockburn
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 6 2014, 06:21 PM) *
You'd certainly think so, but http://eclipsephase.com/regarding-mras


Thanks for that laugh. biggrin.gif
Fatum
Wow, that's pretty impressive.
"We want our forums to be open and inclusive, but if you have an opinion we don't share, fuck right off".
bannockburn
Actually it's "If your opinion is openly hateful, fuck right off."
Bold move for a company in Free Speech Land, which I wholeheartedly support.

Any further discussion of this topic is probably against board rules, not to mention way off-topic.
Sendaz
It's not so much different then when we worked in a bar and there were rules about no biker/gang colours.

Did that mean all bikers or gangs were bad?

No, but there were enough problem childs involved from those groups that it was easier from the bar's point of view to tell people leave it at the door (no colours or other declaration of affiliation) or don't bother coming in.
Sengir
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 6 2014, 07:07 PM) *
Wow, that's pretty impressive.
"We want our forums to be open and inclusive, but if you have an opinion we don't share, fuck right off".

Being open and inclusive is kinda hard if some people are constantly clamoring that $GROUP is our misfortune and therefore should be driven from the game (yep, seriously)
Fatum
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 6 2014, 09:55 PM) *
Being open and inclusive is kinda hard if some people are constantly clamoring that $GROUP is our misfortune and therefore should be driven from the game (yep, seriously)
That's hate speech, and I can't believe any forum's rules allow it, MRA, feminist, or whoever.
hermit
Unfortunatly, that is the main line of reasoning for the MRA crowd. They're listed as hate groups by SPLC for a reason.

Apparently, unlike many internet forums (like dumpshock), Eclipse Phase does not ban political discussions, and didn't even ban these bpeople before a mod called quits over nastiness in his inbox. So they decided to tell a specific set of people they're unwelcome.

Also, inclusive does not mean you have to include bullies or else you're being mean, it means to be a place where the largest achievable number of people of different natures and mentalities feel welcome enough to hang out.
Fabe
relevant to the off topic discussion
http://www.xkcd.com/1357/
Sendaz
QUOTE (Fabe @ Jul 6 2014, 06:25 PM) *
relevant to the off topic discussion
http://www.xkcd.com/1357/

+1
Fatum
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 7 2014, 02:08 AM) *
Unfortunatly, that is the main line of reasoning for the MRA crowd. They're listed as hate groups by SPLC for a reason.
What I've seen of them has been solidly persuasive and factual. Might be because I'm looking at the whole debate through our local set of laws, where males get the short end of the stick consistently, but still.

QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 7 2014, 02:08 AM) *
Apparently, unlike many internet forums (like dumpshock), Eclipse Phase does not ban political discussions, and didn't even ban these bpeople before a mod called quits over nastiness in his inbox. So they decided to tell a specific set of people they're unwelcome.
Usually, the "specific set of people" unwelcome is trolls and flamers, not people holding particular opinions on politics or gender roles or whatever.

QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 7 2014, 02:08 AM) *
Also, inclusive does not mean you have to include bullies or else you're being mean
Inclusive means not pretending that people with an opinion that makes you uncomfortable are bullies all and one simply for holding that different opinion.
hermit
QUOTE
Inclusive means not pretending that people with an opinion that makes you uncomfortable are bullies all and one simply for holding that different opinion.

Seriously, this word does not mean what you think it means.
Adam
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 6 2014, 10:22 AM) *
You conveniently left out 4A...


Funny, when I read this, I had to get up and look at my bookshelf to figure out the price of SR4A .. and it appears I must have given my non-limited copy away? Or maybe it's just hiding somewhere. Either way, $45 in 2009. $15 more for the next edition in 5 years, with a larger page count. That seems inline with other prices. Look at Numenera, or the $60 Emerald City Sourcebook for Mutants and Masterminds (which would have been even more had they released it in a boxed set like they wanted to!).

QUOTE
Well, 5 dollars extra is obviously less than 15, and 50 dollars clearly is a psychological threshold for prices. And EP fans have not been consistently disappointed in the last couple of years


Sure, but the production leap from SR4-era B&W hardcovers to SR5-era B&W hardcovers is a lot more major than "Transhuman was 40 more pages than we budgeted for originally" ;D
Adam
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 6 2014, 08:03 PM) *
Usually, the "specific set of people" unwelcome is trolls and flamers, not people holding particular opinions on politics or gender roles or whatever.

Inclusive means not pretending that people with an opinion that makes you uncomfortable are bullies all and one simply for holding that different opinion.


The people who held vocal MRA-like opinions or who identified as MRAs on our forums all fit into the "trolls, flamers, and bullies" category. Happy to give 'em the boot, don't want their money.
X-Kalibur
QUOTE (Adam @ Jul 6 2014, 06:36 PM) *
The people who held vocal MRA-like opinions or who identified as MRAs on our forums all fit into the "trolls, flamers, and bullies" category. Happy to give 'em the boot, don't want their money.


If you find men's rights are an issue (and they are) but you also believe women should be treated as equals (and they should), that makes you sane. Not necessarily a feminist or MRA.

This is why I identify as a humanist.
Critias
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 6 2014, 07:03 PM) *
What I've seen of them has been solidly persuasive and factual.

Then you haven't looked deeply enough. On the surface, cults and white supremacists might say some persuasive stuff, too.
Cain
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 6 2014, 04:03 PM) *
What I've seen of them has been solidly persuasive and factual. Might be because I'm looking at the whole debate through our local set of laws, where males get the short end of the stick consistently, but still.

Gods, no. They have a great opening line, but most of their "facts" are questionable internet news stories that are blown out of proportion, and their conclusions are just terrifying. Google "incel" for an example, "Elliot Rogers" for another.

QUOTE
Funny, when I read this, I had to get up and look at my bookshelf to figure out the price of SR4A .. and it appears I must have given my non-limited copy away? Or maybe it's just hiding somewhere. Either way, $45 in 2009. $15 more for the next edition in 5 years, with a larger page count. That seems inline with other prices. Look at Numenera, or the $60 Emerald City Sourcebook for Mutants and Masterminds (which would have been even more had they released it in a boxed set like they wanted to!).

I did a pretty exhaustive run down on comparable books earlier in this thread. I covered all the hardcover, full-color books at my FLGS, from A-H. Only two core books were in the $60 range; most of them were running around $50. Supplements typically ran between $30-40. D&D 5e is the industry leader, and their core books have a cover price of $50.

$60 for a core book and $50 for a supplement isn't totally unheard of, but I'd argue that it's not normal either. Those prices are definitely at the high end of the curve. Honestly, the only books I found at my FLGS that cost more than that were limited editions-- the kind with leather covers and all that. I don't think they make for a fair price point comparison, but next time I go there, I can include them.
Fatum
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 7 2014, 04:12 AM) *
Seriously, this word does not mean what you think it means.
inclusive (ɪnˈkluːsɪv) — adj, 4. not excluding any particular groups of people.


QUOTE (Adam @ Jul 7 2014, 06:36 AM) *
The people who held vocal MRA-like opinions or who identified as MRAs on our forums all fit into the "trolls, flamers, and bullies" category. Happy to give 'em the boot, don't want their money.
Well, that's your right, of course. I still think that decision to be the worst kind of backwards-thinking for singling out people by the idea they subscribe to and not the toxic behavior they show while arguing for it.


QUOTE (Critias @ Jul 7 2014, 10:18 AM) *
Then you haven't looked deeply enough. On the surface, cults and white supremacists might say some persuasive stuff, too.
Dunno. Can't say I have a lot of experience with cults, but what the racial supremacists say finds no supporting evidence whatsoever, and plenty of counter-evidence (starting with the seventh grade biology textbook). Similarly, what the MRAs (far as I've been reading them) say finds supporting evidence aplenty in the family law, conscription laws, longevity statistics, etcetera.


QUOTE (Cain @ Jul 7 2014, 10:53 AM) *
Gods, no. They have a great opening line, but most of their "facts" are questionable internet news stories that are blown out of proportion, and their conclusions are just terrifying. Google "incel" for an example, "Elliot Rogers" for another.
incel - "Involuntary Celibate". A frustrated virgin who feels as if the world owes them sex. A self-described 'incel' is highly likely to blame their virginity on the other 6,999,999,999 people on the planet rather than consider that maybe the problem lies inward.
See no problem with that :ь
As for Elliot Rodger, well, if murder sprees are equated with MRA, the problem seems not to be with the MRA :ь
Redjack
QUOTE (Terms of Service)
4. Discussion of politics, religion, and sex are prohibited, except as they directly pertain to Shadowrun or another game. Discussions on these subjects will be watched closely, and any inappropriate posts may result in warnings or suspensions


Any conversation that includes the SPLC or interpretations of the word "inclusive" has clearly ventured into the political zone. Dumpshock Mods are not the Thought Police. We don't care what you think, we do care what you post and we do NOT have an "off-topic" area.

Thank you.
DWC
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jun 20 2014, 07:01 PM) *
Yep, or at least in R&G it's not so terribly obvious. Though I still loathe the fork gauss rifle.


Don't forget the MP Laser that's a Kriss Super V.
Sengir
QUOTE (Adam @ Jul 7 2014, 04:34 AM) *
Funny, when I read this, I had to get up and look at my bookshelf to figure out the price of SR4A .. and it appears I must have given my non-limited copy away? Or maybe it's just hiding somewhere. Either way, $45 in 2009. $15 more for the next edition in 5 years, with a larger page count. That seems inline with other prices. Look at Numenera, or the $60 Emerald City Sourcebook for Mutants and Masterminds (which would have been even more had they released it in a boxed set like they wanted to!).

...at which point you should clearly address Cain's list.

QUOTE
Sure, but the production leap from SR4-era B&W hardcovers to SR5-era B&W hardcovers is a lot more major than "Transhuman was 40 more pages than we budgeted for originally" ;D

Is it really? I mean, the only thing that really changes are the artwork and printing. Both are small factors, and a lot of artwork is not even new (didn't do an exact count, but my impression was that 5th Ed had no more new artworks than 4A)

Of course, a full-color book looks far more valuable to the end user, but your argument seems to be that it's the actual costs going up.




And on a completely unrelated note, I suggest reading the Humanis chapter in Loose Alliances wink.gif
Fatum
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 7 2014, 08:15 PM) *
And on a completely unrelated note, I suggest reading the Humanis chapter in Loose Alliances wink.gif
I'm reading Threats now, and while I love Loose Alliances, I'm liking Threats more because it gives you more structured ideas on how you can use the organizations described in your campaigns.
Ryu
QUOTE (Adam @ Jul 4 2014, 05:33 PM) *
You're right; based on one of those factors alone changing, the price of a book likely wouldn't change. It's more likely that that lessened profit will be absorbed for a few books, and then the price will be raised on a future book. This is partially because constant small prices raises -- 44.99, 45.99, 46.99 -- are viewed as finicky for both the customer and retailer.

The price for the SR4-era core supplements was set in 2006/2007. That's eight years of raised costs to accommodate; inflation alone counts for over $5 by itself. Then add in color printing, color artwork, raised shipping costs, etc. and it's really easy to see how the cover price raises $15 (which the publisher only sees about a third of.)

I'm not debating the quality of the new books, because I have absolutely no idea what that quality is. They, individually, may well not be worth $50. But it's no surprise that that's the price; RPGs are a small press boutique item.

I think the outcry about the price is actually a little surprising; when we announced we were raising the price of Transhuman from 44.99 to 49.99 last year, not a single person -- fan or retailer -- complained. And with SR5 priced at $60, it was obvious what the core supplements would be priced at.

That post is inclusive of product value to the customer being something else than necessary street-price-per-unit for the producer. For what that is worth, I do not regret spending € 19,95 on the German version of SR5. I do believe this is BOTH a) a labor of love and b) part of a thought-out long-term strategy. A company has to make money in order to continue.

(@off-topic: Not likely to be worth anything to you, but I approve of taking an active stance against the negative parts of a multi-optioned society. Should be dealt with, but elsewhere.)
Cain
QUOTE (Ryu @ Jul 9 2014, 01:51 PM) *
That post is inclusive of product value to the customer being something else than necessary street-price-per-unit for the producer. For what that is worth, I do not regret spending € 19,95 on the German version of SR5. I do believe this is BOTH a) a labor of love and b) part of a thought-out long-term strategy. A company has to make money in order to continue.

If my numbers are correct, that means the German book sells for US $27.20... less than half of the US book. Even allowing for a generous conversion factor, that doesn't make sense if the US book is properly priced. It seems to me that the US book *has* to be overpriced, in relation to other US RPG's and the German SR5 book.
Ryu
QUOTE (Cain @ Jul 10 2014, 10:56 AM) *
If my numbers are correct, that means the German book sells for US $27.20... less than half of the US book. Even allowing for a generous conversion factor, that doesn't make sense if the US book is properly priced. It seems to me that the US book *has* to be overpriced, in relation to other US RPG's and the German SR5 book.

Itīs something like "the first is always free" I assume. Strategically only covering cost on the first book because of the assumption than many old fans will come back to the franchise if they can buy in cheap can be a valid strategy. It will also have driven up the conversion rate, enabling subsequent books to sell well. Pricing strategy is not binary.
binarywraith
QUOTE (Ryu @ Jul 10 2014, 10:55 AM) *
Itīs something like "the first is always free" I assume. Strategically only covering cost on the first book because of the assumption than many old fans will come back to the franchise if they can buy in cheap can be a valid strategy. It will also have driven up the conversion rate, enabling subsequent books to sell well. Pricing strategy is not binary.



All of this is probably true for the German edition, as it seems to have actually gotten extensive editorial and proofreading work applied before going to print.


The US version is a pure cash-grab on Catalyst's part. They knew the name would sell the core book, and didn't care if they never got any follow-on sales from new players because of the terrible quality of the core book. The dedicated players will keep buying in to get 5e versions of their old favorite toys, after all, even though literally every 5e release has had absurdly large proof and editorial problems.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 10 2014, 12:31 PM) *
All of this is probably true for the German edition, as it seems to have actually gotten extensive editorial and proofreading work applied before going to print.


The US version is a pure cash-grab on Catalyst's part. They knew the name would sell the core book, and didn't care if they never got any follow-on sales from new players because of the terrible quality of the core book. The dedicated players will keep buying in to get 5e versions of their old favorite toys, after all, even though literally every 5e release has had absurdly large proof and editorial problems.


Emphasis on the Absurdly... frown.gif
Jaid
I dunno about guaranteed sales. I haven't bought anything since I got the 5e core book. nothing I've heard has motivated me to want anything else.

there are a few basic ideas I like in 5th. I feel like it would be dramatically easier to port those ideas over to 4th than it would be to remove all the changes I didn't like, deal with all the unclear rulings, and convert ideas over.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Jaid @ Jul 10 2014, 12:50 PM) *
I dunno about guaranteed sales. I haven't bought anything since I got the 5e core book. nothing I've heard has motivated me to want anything else.

there are a few basic ideas I like in 5th. I feel like it would be dramatically easier to port those ideas over to 4th than it would be to remove all the changes I didn't like, deal with all the unclear rulings, and convert ideas over.


Indeed... Back Portability is the way to go. smile.gif
Cain
QUOTE (Ryu @ Jul 10 2014, 09:55 AM) *
Itīs something like "the first is always free" I assume. Strategically only covering cost on the first book because of the assumption than many old fans will come back to the franchise if they can buy in cheap can be a valid strategy. It will also have driven up the conversion rate, enabling subsequent books to sell well. Pricing strategy is not binary.

Possible. Wizards is releasing the started edition of the D&D 5e rules for free, under the same principle. They also released a starter edition *before* releasing the 5e core books, to drive up interest.

QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 10 2014, 11:31 AM) *
All of this is probably true for the German edition, as it seems to have actually gotten extensive editorial and proofreading work applied before going to print.


The US version is a pure cash-grab on Catalyst's part. They knew the name would sell the core book, and didn't care if they never got any follow-on sales from new players because of the terrible quality of the core book. The dedicated players will keep buying in to get 5e versions of their old favorite toys, after all, even though literally every 5e release has had absurdly large proof and editorial problems.

It's possible. There was a big hype when SR5 first came out, and Catalyst might have wanted to cash in on the initial "new book" sales, instead of steady sales of a good product. So, they deliberately overpriced the core book, and only counted on the starting rush to earn money. If that's the case, expect 6e to hit within eight years.

QUOTE (Jaid @ Jul 10 2014, 11:50 AM) *
I dunno about guaranteed sales. I haven't bought anything since I got the 5e core book. nothing I've heard has motivated me to want anything else.

there are a few basic ideas I like in 5th. I feel like it would be dramatically easier to port those ideas over to 4th than it would be to remove all the changes I didn't like, deal with all the unclear rulings, and convert ideas over.

I haven't even bought the hardcopy. Not sure I will, now. I'm in the process of converting to e-formats, which is a lot easier on my back when I have to run a game. It's kind of sad, since I prefer reading a real book; but it just makes too much sense to convert.

Honestly, I doubt I'll spend any real money on a Shadowrun product at this point. I still have proofreader credits I haven't used, so unless I want a hardcopy, there's no point in using my own cash.
binarywraith
The irony of using proofreader credits to obtain books wherein the proofreaders' corrections have been wantonly ignored is striking.
psychophipps
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 10 2014, 03:04 PM) *
The irony of using proofreader credits to obtain books wherein the proofreaders' corrections have been wantonly ignored is striking.


If the definition of "irony" has been changed to "The sensation of being profoundly disappointed", maybe. My wife used to a copy editor, or "comma whore" if you prefer, and seeing her work ignored despite being paid to do it would really piss her off.
Jaid
no, that's pretty ironic.

not saying it wouldn't be infuriating, mind you. but it's still quite ironic.

on a side note:

QUOTE (Cain @ Jul 10 2014, 04:07 PM) *
Possible. Wizards is releasing the started edition of the D&D 5e rules for free, under the same principle. They also released a starter edition *before* releasing the 5e core books, to drive up interest.


good to know; free is about as much as I'm willing to pay to have a look at their rules. personally, I stopped paying attention when they started making ridiculous promises, though. "oh, we're going to make it so you can play with two completely different rule sets based on player preference and both will be equally balanced".

uh-huh. sure. just like in 4th edition there were going to make it so everyone wasn't gear dependent, right? I'm sure glad they went from half the classes needing gear to making all the classes need gear; that sure reduced everyone's gear dependency, right?

so ummm... apparently broken promises are starting to look pretty standard in the RPG industry. at this rate, I'm not sure if I even expect the next edition of shadowrun to actually have any functioning rules at all.
psychophipps
I'm actually seeing the TTRPG industry pulling the same gross errors that the Comics industry pulled as they realized they were in a shrinking market. They're trying far too hard to pander to the old players when they should focused upon getting new blood into the market.
Fatum
As if it's a realistic suggestion, to draw new blood into the market, seeing as how they have to compete with videogames.
Hell, even people with dozens of years of pnp experience are easily lost to that.
psychophipps
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 10 2014, 08:14 PM) *
As if it's a realistic suggestion, to draw new blood into the market, seeing as how they have to compete with videogames.
Hell, even people with dozens of years of pnp experience are easily lost to that.


Well, think about it. You don't have to travel at all. There is zero setup. No whiny kids. No arguing over what type of pizza to buy. Interaction is 100% on your terms. You can leave it and pick it right up where you left off at pretty much any time. There are huge online communities for it. I would love to game on a weekly basis but all the players around me have panic attacks trying to squeeze in one "maybe" game a month and think that they're "going the extra mile" to "game regularly".

I'm just pissed that the videogamers stole the term "Gamer" from us RPG and board game geeks. I furthermore find it completely ridiculous that an industry that takes in more money than Hollywood can be seen as anything other than as mainstream as Top 40 pop bullshit.
Fatum
QUOTE (psychophipps @ Jul 11 2014, 05:52 AM) *
Well, think about it. You don't have to travel at all. There is zero setup. No whiny kids. No arguing over what type of pizza to buy.
Same in online pnp games (but you have to schedule games so that people from South America, Scandinavia, Russia and Australia can make it).

QUOTE (psychophipps @ Jul 11 2014, 05:52 AM) *
Interaction is 100% on your terms. You can leave it and pick it right up where you left off at pretty much any time.
Not in multiplayer games usually, but yeah.

QUOTE (psychophipps @ Jul 11 2014, 05:52 AM) *
I would love to game on a weekly basis but all the players around me have panic attacks trying to squeeze in one "maybe" game a month and think that they're "going the extra mile" to "game regularly".
Absolutely. And they call it "having a life".

QUOTE (psychophipps @ Jul 11 2014, 05:52 AM) *
I'm just pissed that the videogamers stole the term "Gamer" from us RPG and board game geeks. I furthermore find it completely ridiculous that an industry that takes in more money than Hollywood can be seen as anything other than as mainstream as Top 40 pop bullshit.
That smacks of elitism, doesn't it. Gaming became mainstream, there's nothing bad about it.
The only problem is that pnp gaming didn't, and likely will never.
psychophipps
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 10 2014, 09:19 PM) *
Absolutely. And they call it "having a life".

That smacks of elitism, doesn't it. Gaming became mainstream, there's nothing bad about it.
The only problem is that pnp gaming didn't, and likely will never.


You mean the 40-hour per week job, wife, two kids aged 5 and three months, teaching a Wednesday night church class for teenagers, and being a regular contributor to the Sunday church services kind of life? Yeah, I have one of those.

It's not so much elitism (what about being a 39-year-old D&D geek is "elite"?), it's about the fact that I used to be able to say "gamer" and my fellow gamers would ask me what RPGs or board games I play. Now I say, "Yeah, I'm a gamer" and they ask me if it's X-Box or Playstation (because PC video game players don't really count, I guess). I haven't owned a console since the Genesis (Mega Drive for you Europeans).
Cain
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 10 2014, 05:14 PM) *
As if it's a realistic suggestion, to draw new blood into the market, seeing as how they have to compete with videogames.
Hell, even people with dozens of years of pnp experience are easily lost to that.

I've seen a fair number of new players start gaming recently-- mostly kids, but some adults, too. Just off what I've seen, I'd say that it's not quote true to say table top is competing with video games. All of the new players have done some video gaming, it's almost impossible to not have. But even among those who are heavy video gamers, they tend to not view table top games as a replacement. It's a different experience, with different rewards.

Look, board games have had a recent resurgence, even though video games remain very popular. That's because board games scratch an itch that video games don't. The social aspect is part of it, as is the fact that board games reward more out-of-the-box thinking. RPG's can cater to this need as well.
binarywraith
Yeah, that's something I've been seeing too. Board games are a lot easier to get people to take time for than tabletop RPGS. Even the ones that are essentially identical to RPGs, like Arkham Horror.
Shortstraw
QUOTE (Cain @ Jul 10 2014, 06:56 PM) *
If my numbers are correct, that means the German book sells for US $27.20... less than half of the US book. Even allowing for a generous conversion factor, that doesn't make sense if the US book is properly priced. It seems to me that the US book *has* to be overpriced, in relation to other US RPG's and the German SR5 book.


The solution is to buy the German edition and with the leftover $30 one of those "learn German" home courses nyahnyah.gif.

QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 12 2014, 01:15 AM) *
Yeah, that's something I've been seeing too. Board games are a lot easier to get people to take time for than tabletop RPGS. Even the ones that are essentially identical to RPGs, like Arkham Horror.


It's how I got into pnp's. Dark World to Warhammer to WHQ to D&D to all the others.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012