So... what's in this thing?
Any cool new ware? Interesting new Qualities?
Cyberware bundle rules like in 4th?
More advanced rules on implanting ware into limbs?
Biodrones? Jar Heads?
I'm happy to see Internal Router.
EDIT:
Does Geneware still have rules that let it duplicate bioware, and is there still a quality that lets you start with an item of geneware for free?
Full Version: (SR5) Chrome Flesh is now available!
QUOTE (BlackJaw @ Jul 2 2015, 10:51 AM) 
So... what's in this thing?
Any cool new ware?
Any cool new ware?
Yup!
QUOTE
Interesting new Qualities?
Yup!
QUOTE
Cyberware bundle rules like in 4th?
Not *quite* teh same rules, but you get a bundle of cyberware at a reduced Essence cost that are filled with advertising for the corporation that made it.
QUOTE
More advanced rules on implanting ware into limbs?
Kiiinda. Modular limbs, and teh ability to turn gear into Cyberware to attach to those modular points.
QUOTE
Biodrones? Jar Heads?
Not here, this time.
QUOTE
I'm happy to see Internal Router.
It's controversial!
QUOTE
EDIT:
Does Geneware still have rules that let it duplicate bioware, and is there still a quality that lets you start with an item of geneware for free?
Does Geneware still have rules that let it duplicate bioware, and is there still a quality that lets you start with an item of geneware for free?
I don't thnk so on the first, but yes on the second.
Give it a spin! I think you'll like it, and the PDF's only $25.
Personally, I think the Router is a step in the right direction, giving mundane augmented characterts at least some room to breathe, though the world has gone full DXHR on cyberware all of a sudden because of nanoware shenanigans (whatever, really, in my games, that will go where the Alamaise battle went).
Why did the trauma damper get turned into functionally the same thing as damage compensators, only with a much lower max level and twice the price? I mean, yay for fluff about how this can be abused by why the mechanical change?
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 2 2015, 01:36 PM)
(whatever, really, in my games, that will go where the Alamaise battle went).
New Jersey?
QUOTE (Mantis @ Jul 2 2015, 11:17 AM)
Why did the trauma damper get turned into functionally the same thing as damage compensators, only with a much lower max level and twice the price? I mean, yay for fluff about how this can be abused by why the mechanical change?
Maybe the same reason why the Chameleon Suit (SR5, page 437) and the Ruthenium Polymer Coating (Run & Gun, page 86) are, by description the exact same thing, but rules mechanically are completely different pieces of gear. Whoever wrote the second one didn't do any research into the established gear and just wrote something.
QUOTE (Mantis @ Jul 2 2015, 01:17 PM)
Why did the trauma damper get turned into functionally the same thing as damage compensators, only with a much lower max level and twice the price? I mean, yay for fluff about how this can be abused by why the mechanical change?
Somewhat different. One treats you as having less damage, the other reduces the penalty.. it's effectively three times as good, but has a downside to balance it.
This was done to try and circumvent some of the older exploits that came from shunting phsyical damage to Stun.
QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Jul 2 2015, 07:58 PM)
Somewhat different. One treats you as having less damage, the other reduces the penalty.. it's effectively three times as good, but has a downside to balance it.
Which is functionally the same as far as mechanics go. In either case you don't take a dice penalty. I don't think exchanging the penalty for a lower limit and a reduction in reaction is all that balanced. Exchanging up to 4 penalty points for a -4 to reaction and limits seems a bit harsh, especially as this is something only really useful in combat when you need to have that reaction to avoid being hit.
QUOTE (Ren @ Jul 2 2015, 02:50 PM)
This is probably not the part anyone cares about, but I wrote the second half of Chapter 1, the one that starts with Butch's post. If anyone wants to yell at me for how awkwardly Respec was introduced or how contrived the whole thing was or how obvious the Ghost in the Shell reference was, please let me know about your feedback now. It's the only way I'll learn.
OK, so let's start with the big one...why is that chapter in CF, not in Stolen Souls or Lockdown?
Just finished a read thru. Lots of goodies, interesting Shadowtalk. Two sections and lots of chatter dedicated to CFD. With two books already out covering this fluff, it seems like overkill. No Cyberzombie, rigged critters or brain in a can rigger. Could have easily skiped CFD rehash and had room for missing info.
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 4 2015, 02:53 AM)
OK, so let's start with the big one...why is that chapter in CF, not in Stolen Souls or Lockdown?
Don't you think that question should go to people other than freelancers?
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 4 2015, 02:44 PM)
Don't you think that question should go to people other than freelancers?
Well, at the very least they would know if the answer is "because it was cut from a previous book"
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 4 2015, 05:36 PM)
Well, at the very least they would know if the answer is "because it was cut from a previous book"
Not if they hopped onboard after that book had been released, judging by the time they cam to say hello here.
We now know what NERPS is
And the Monads (aka the CFD AIs) have gone full transhuman, though we are reminded that unreliable narrator applies
QUOTE
Stress relief methods that focus you on the moment can
also be used to ward off flashbacks. As stupid as this
might sound, when I first got away from the Universal
Brotherhood and started hunting bugs, one of the things I
used to counter my tick was NERPS.
> Sticks
> NERPS? Like, the candy?
> /dev/grrl
> Yeah. So what? I like the taste, and the bugs never let
us have them when I was a kid, so it’s a great way to
remind myself that I’m not there.
also be used to ward off flashbacks. As stupid as this
might sound, when I first got away from the Universal
Brotherhood and started hunting bugs, one of the things I
used to counter my tick was NERPS.
> Sticks
> NERPS? Like, the candy?
> /dev/grrl
> Yeah. So what? I like the taste, and the bugs never let
us have them when I was a kid, so it’s a great way to
remind myself that I’m not there.
And the Monads (aka the CFD AIs) have gone full transhuman, though we are reminded that unreliable narrator applies
QUOTE
Though the Monads may not have all arisen from science or engineering programs, most have been able to integrate the knowledge of their host and then add on to that quickly. One advantage of being able to process data while their biological form rests. Combine that level of intellect with a singular purpose and a dedication uninhibited by standard metahuman concerns, and you will be surprised—or perhaps not—by the depth and scope of the advances they have made in remarkably short time. Advances in all of the augmentation fields (cyber, bio, gene, and nanotech) as well as technology associated with deep-space exploration such as long-term stasis, efficient deep-space drives, zero-G agriculture, artificial gravity, and some sci-fi theoretical stuff that is so far beyond me I don’t have a clue what to call it.
Adam Pyle is a gene-tweaked dwarf who only needs a bit of insulating clothing to regulate his temperature on the surface of Mars. Alterations to his lung tissue and a more efficient circulatory system that includes filters and a second heart enable him to breathe the attenuated atmosphere. Adjustments to his musculature give him uncanny agility and grace in the reduced gravity while sacrificing none of his dwarven strength. Pyle leads an exploratory mining crew, supervising a team of ten other similarly modified metahumans.
Adam Pyle is a gene-tweaked dwarf who only needs a bit of insulating clothing to regulate his temperature on the surface of Mars. Alterations to his lung tissue and a more efficient circulatory system that includes filters and a second heart enable him to breathe the attenuated atmosphere. Adjustments to his musculature give him uncanny agility and grace in the reduced gravity while sacrificing none of his dwarven strength. Pyle leads an exploratory mining crew, supervising a team of ten other similarly modified metahumans.
[ Spoiler ]
Wow. Now that I've re-read it, literally everything involving the AIs and CFD is a bad joke.
Here we thought we'd dodged the transhumanism bullshit and gotten back to a street level game, and the last two expansions decided to go full retard.
In the words of Immortan Joe : Mediocre.
Here we thought we'd dodged the transhumanism bullshit and gotten back to a street level game, and the last two expansions decided to go full retard.
In the words of Immortan Joe : Mediocre.
It gets funnier, if you replace the M with a G.
Yes. 
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 5 2015, 12:59 PM)
We now know what NERPS is
I think this a stupid move.QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 5 2015, 12:59 PM)
And the Monads (aka the CFD AIs) have gone full transhuman, though we are reminded that unreliable narrator applies
Well, that could be moving us towards a more street-level game. On Earth.At the same time, we're getting a neat tie-in to Eclipse Phase.
What I'd want to see, then, in the next edition, is a set of rules that'd allow players to move freely through the timeline, somewhat like the idea behind SR2050.
That is, like in GURPS, point out the date each piece of ware was designed, and establish a rule that'd regulate its price and availability as a bleeding edge prototype, newly commercially available item, order-of-the-day equipment, obsolescent and finally obsolete piece.
Similarly, write up a timeline with the most important events like 2011, the Year of Chaos, and right down into Eclipse Phase. Establish main themes for the eras, point out essential plot hooks, etc. (Sadly, that'd also mean supporting several versions of Matrix rules, but I believe a somewhat uniform ruleset can be devised).
Then the dozens of years of development won't have to remain largely unused; old adventures will be possible to convert; nobody will complain on metaplot being more of the same (due to non-existence for its updates); and generally there will be peace and benevolence in peoples.
Eclipse Phase is not a follow on to Shadowrun. Not even the same Companies, in fact.
And while I tend to think that Transhumanism is the next logical step in the Development of Shadowrun, the developers seem to waffle back and forth on this idea. *shrug*
And while I tend to think that Transhumanism is the next logical step in the Development of Shadowrun, the developers seem to waffle back and forth on this idea. *shrug*
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 5 2015, 08:21 PM)
Eclipse Phase is not a follow on to Shadowrun.
Why not? There's nothing that'd prohibit it from being true.QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 5 2015, 08:21 PM)
Not even the same Companies, in fact.
Largely the same people and the same system, though, eh?QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 5 2015, 08:21 PM)
And while I tend to think that Transhumanism is the next logical step in the Development of Shadowrun, the developers seem to waffle back and forth on this idea. *shrug*
Transhumanism is the only way for a society with ever-improving augmentation to develop, sure. And the problem with some players wanting good old cyberpunk and others wanting something more h+ can be solved by a system as envisioned in my post above.QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 5 2015, 07:24 PM)
Why not? There's nothing that'd prohibit it from being true.
The lack of metahumans and magic, for one thing.
QUOTE
Largely the same people and the same system, though, eh?
Not really to the same people, and not even close to the same system.
There WAS a followup RPG once, but I forget its name.
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jul 5 2015, 11:34 AM)
The lack of metahumans and magic, for one thing.
Yeah, but they have psychics in EP, which come close to magic.
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jul 5 2015, 08:34 PM)
The lack of metahumans and magic, for one thing.
There's a bunch of different morphs; much more diverse than metahuman and metasapient variants available.Magic is in the setting with asyncs. Also remember that SR magic only works in the Earth's manasphere, in EP the Earth is given over to aggressive remnants of TITAN singularity.
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jul 5 2015, 08:34 PM)
Not really to the same people, and not even close to the same system.
Really? If you replace d6 pools with d100 with modifiers, it's not "even close to the same system"? Seriously?Note, I'm not saying EP is literally "Shadowrun in SPAAAACEEEE", but it's as close as it gets. Change a couple minor bits in EP and SR, and they fit together like puzzle pieces.
If you want to argue that way, a d20 system is also close to a d6 system, because they all use dice, I guess.
Other than that, no, EP has a completely different focus and premise. Being able to play an octopus isn't even the same sport, let alone in the same ballpark as metahumanity.
Mind you, I'm not saying you couldn't reskin EP comparatively easily, but what you claim sounds far-fetched indeed to me.
Other than that, no, EP has a completely different focus and premise. Being able to play an octopus isn't even the same sport, let alone in the same ballpark as metahumanity.
Mind you, I'm not saying you couldn't reskin EP comparatively easily, but what you claim sounds far-fetched indeed to me.
I get it. So these Monads are responsible for locking all of metahumanity in this UV matrix simulation of the early 21st century, where everybody believes the Sixth World is just a roleplaying game and has never heard of magic, cybertech and dragons. But why did they do it? In order to power their reality TV with input from our uncolourful lives? Or maybe to
Oh, sorry. I have to take my medicine now.
Oh, sorry. I have to take my medicine now.
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 5 2015, 07:12 PM)
I think this a stupid move.
Yep, spoiling a decades-old inside joke is a rare achievement. Maybe that's why they went for it...
[ Spoiler ]
) will go out as fast as the PR department can write it.QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jul 5 2015, 10:32 PM)
If you want to argue that way, a d20 system is also close to a d6 system, because they all use dice, I guess.
EP and SR have essentially the same stats, the same skills, the same "stat+skill" system, the same Matrix, the same magic, I mean, come on.QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jul 5 2015, 10:32 PM)
Other than that, no, EP has a completely different focus and premise. Being able to play an octopus isn't even the same sport, let alone in the same ballpark as metahumanity.
*shrug* You can play an AI, a wereeagle or a centaur in SR. I can't see how playing an uplifted octopus or pig is principally different.Now, a character's ego and morph being separate is a big deal and largely a theme for EP; but with e-ghosts and Project Imago this is already where things are going in SR.
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 5 2015, 10:53 PM)
EP and SR have essentially the same stats, the same skills, the same "stat+skill" system, the same Matrix, the same magic, I mean, come on.
D100 (or D20) is a uniform probability distribution, a pool system as used by SR is a binomial distribution. While it's easy to calculate the success probability and turn it into a difficulty for D100, variance and other properties are fundamentally different.
And "mages" in EP are psionic mystic adepts with a very limited grimoire. No fireballs, summoning, totems, astral projection, metaplanes, or initiation. Even full-blown exurgent powers, which cause onlookers mental damage because such things cannot be possible, are parlor tricks by SR standards, like pyrokinesis.
It's certainly hard to overlook that EP grew out of brainstorming for Shadowrun in the far future and is carried by Rob Boyle and other former SR personnel, but the two systems have a good number of differences.
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 6 2015, 12:47 AM)
It's certainly hard to overlook that EP grew out of brainstorming for Shadowrun in the far future and is carried by Rob Boyle and other former SR personnel, but the two systems have a good number of differences.
And yet they share too much to be called unrelated systems. Compare SR and EP to any of the other majors - dunno, GURPS, DH, D&D, Savage Worlds, whatever, - and notice how the difference between the two is fundamentally less than between them and the rest of the systems mentioned. And, as I said, EP setting is quite a possible one for SR to develop into, minor differences aside.
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 6 2015, 12:47 AM)
And, as I said, EP setting is quite a possible one for SR to develop into, minor differences aside.
As is? Not remotely. You can probably hack it together, but you'll have to change EP's background and deal with how to make SR magic feasible in space.
An EP-like setting however? Sure. I can see that happening. I won't be interested in it, but the trends are visible.
I won't address your thoughts on system similarities, though. We'll have to agree to disagree.
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jul 6 2015, 11:30 AM)
As is? Not remotely. You can probably hack it together, but you'll have to change EP's background and deal with how to make SR magic feasible in space.
As I said, SR magic only works in Earth's manasphere. In EP, transhumanity has no access to Earth.Essentially, the only thing you have to account for to make EP a continuation of SR is the presence of metahumans and metasapients, but that's as easy as adding a splat with morphs.
Well, also dragons, but I'm not exactly seeing how these could escape the chaos of TITANs' singularity other than as datamorphs.
Hell, you won't even have to change hypercorp names, cause those could've easily changed, or A-s could become hypers during the Fall.
QUOTE (bannockburn @ Jul 6 2015, 11:30 AM)
An EP-like setting however? Sure. I can see that happening. I won't be interested in it, but the trends are visible.
Well, you see, for me there are two defining aspects of EP: the difference between ego and morph, and the access to wider space. Shadowrun is obviously going in that direction with space-going Monads, e-ghosts and Project Imago as an attempt of reliably reproducing digital consciousness upload.
As soon as they're successful, one setting in its core values is overlapping with the other, and then in my opinion it ceases to make sense as a continuing cyberpunk story metauniverse. So it's time to give players the ability to choose the era of their liking and stick to that, while still using a (more or less) uniform set of rules across the field.
I remember hving read an interview from Eclypse Dev's where Eclypse was supposed to SR future but it was dropped:
http://eclipsephase.com/clarification-re-equinox
http://eclipsephase.com/clarification-re-equinox
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 5 2015, 04:47 PM)
And yet they share too much to be called unrelated systems. Compare SR and EP to any of the other majors - dunno, GURPS, DH, D&D, Savage Worlds, whatever, - and notice how the difference between the two is fundamentally less than between them and the rest of the systems mentioned.
And, as I said, EP setting is quite a possible one for SR to develop into, minor differences aside.
And, as I said, EP setting is quite a possible one for SR to develop into, minor differences aside.
You could say the same of World of Darkness and Shadowrun... which are actually a lot closer than EP and SR.
Without going into too many details here (not because I disagree in general, but rather since I think most things don't bear repeating):
I agree. Then again, I don't really follow the current metaplot anymore. The main point remains: Without distinctive differences and plot points, continuing a story is pretty pointless.
I think that would be a great addition to any kind of setting. Especially one with such an organic growth like SR. I'd buy a comprehensive list like you described.
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 6 2015, 01:44 PM)
[...] and then in my opinion it ceases to make sense as a continuing cyberpunk story metauniverse.
I agree. Then again, I don't really follow the current metaplot anymore. The main point remains: Without distinctive differences and plot points, continuing a story is pretty pointless.
QUOTE
So it's time to give players the ability to choose the era of their liking and stick to that, while still using a (more or less) uniform set of rules across the field.
I think that would be a great addition to any kind of setting. Especially one with such an organic growth like SR. I'd buy a comprehensive list like you described.
I completely agree with the concept of letting the players to chose the era/style of their liking, using an uniform set of rules with variants to support each play style.
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 6 2015, 05:44 AM)
As I said, SR magic only works in Earth's manasphere. In EP, transhumanity has no access to Earth.
Not necessarily true... Magic requires a manaspere, not necessarily Earth's Manasphere, as evidenced by magic performed on the space stations in Shadowrun. Given that, Magic would work on any of the habitats in Eclipse Phase. *shrug*
QUOTE
Well, you see, for me there are two defining aspects of EP: the difference between ego and morph, and the access to wider space.
Shadowrun is obviously going in that direction with space-going Monads, e-ghosts and Project Imago as an attempt of reliably reproducing digital consciousness upload.
As soon as they're successful, one setting in its core values is overlapping with the other, and then in my opinion it ceases to make sense as a continuing cyberpunk story metauniverse. So it's time to give players the ability to choose the era of their liking and stick to that, while still using a (more or less) uniform set of rules across the field.
Shadowrun is obviously going in that direction with space-going Monads, e-ghosts and Project Imago as an attempt of reliably reproducing digital consciousness upload.
As soon as they're successful, one setting in its core values is overlapping with the other, and then in my opinion it ceases to make sense as a continuing cyberpunk story metauniverse. So it's time to give players the ability to choose the era of their liking and stick to that, while still using a (more or less) uniform set of rules across the field.
You have that option already. You want a space game, you play Eclipse Phase. You want a Shadowrun Game, you play Shadowrun. Done. The two just do not intrinsically play well in the same game space. You could always force them to do so, but that is not their intent.
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 6 2015, 05:53 AM)
You could say the same of World of Darkness and Shadowrun... which are actually a lot closer than EP and SR.
Indeed they are.
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 6 2015, 04:16 PM)
You have that option already. You want a space game, you play Eclipse Phase. You want a Shadowrun Game, you play Shadowrun. Done. The two just do not intrinsically play well in the same game space. You could always force them to do so, but that is not their intent.
True.
But if you want a cyberpunk game with soul-eating cyberware in a dystopic future with magic, you play Shadowrun.
If you want a post-cyberpunk game with handy (and outdated, getting replaced by bio/nano/geneware) cyberware in a slightly dystopic world (that's not that worse than our own actually), you play Shadowrun.
You want a techno-thriller heist game with cyber and magic set in a world that's quite like ours but with magic and cyber, you play Shadowrun.
You want a pick-mohawk game in any of these settings. You play Shadowrun.
You want a black-trenchcoat game in any of these settings. You play Shadowrun.
You can (as the official line has been trying to do for some time now) try to just push the timeline forward with a "one size fits all" mentality. But I'd rather have distinct eras each with a well defined tone and adapted rules variants than a bland generic setting that will vary a lot from table to table.
QUOTE
Why not? There's nothing that'd prohibit it from being true.
Here is a clarification of the relation between Shadowrun, Eclipse Phase, and Shadowrun 40K, aka Equinox.
QUOTE (Blade @ Jul 6 2015, 08:39 AM)
True.
But if you want a cyberpunk game with soul-eating cyberware in a dystopic future with magic, you play Shadowrun.
If you want a post-cyberpunk game with handy (and outdated, getting replaced by bio/nano/geneware) cyberware in a slightly dystopic world (that's not that worse than our own actually), you play Shadowrun.
You want a techno-thriller heist game with cyber and magic set in a world that's quite like ours but with magic and cyber, you play Shadowrun.
You want a pick-mohawk game in any of these settings. You play Shadowrun.
You want a black-trenchcoat game in any of these settings. You play Shadowrun.
You can (as the official line has been trying to do for some time now) try to just push the timeline forward with a "one size fits all" mentality. But I'd rather have distinct eras each with a well defined tone and adapted rules variants than a bland generic setting that will vary a lot from table to table.
But if you want a cyberpunk game with soul-eating cyberware in a dystopic future with magic, you play Shadowrun.
If you want a post-cyberpunk game with handy (and outdated, getting replaced by bio/nano/geneware) cyberware in a slightly dystopic world (that's not that worse than our own actually), you play Shadowrun.
You want a techno-thriller heist game with cyber and magic set in a world that's quite like ours but with magic and cyber, you play Shadowrun.
You want a pick-mohawk game in any of these settings. You play Shadowrun.
You want a black-trenchcoat game in any of these settings. You play Shadowrun.
You can (as the official line has been trying to do for some time now) try to just push the timeline forward with a "one size fits all" mentality. But I'd rather have distinct eras each with a well defined tone and adapted rules variants than a bland generic setting that will vary a lot from table to table.
See, I don't think you need a different era for such things, though. Each setting you enumerate above is more of a STYLE rather than an actual ERA. They can, and do, all exist simultaneously and can be used separate or together dependent upon the game one wants to play. It is all on how you focus the narrative.
I have played all the styles you listed above, in the same game world, and in the same campaign, and all that is needed is a different narrative focus, or a different character, depending upon your end goals.
While I enjoy the conversation, I think we're drifting a tad. Might be time to split the thread.
(That said, there's no wrong way to play Shadowrun!)
(That said, there's no wrong way to play Shadowrun!)
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 6 2015, 05:16 PM)
Not necessarily true... Magic requires a manaspere, not necessarily Earth's Manasphere, as evidenced by magic performed on the space stations in Shadowrun. Given that, Magic would work on any of the habitats in Eclipse Phase. *shrug*
Well, sure. But it's not stretching my suspension of disbelief too much to think that EP habitats only provide enough mana for async trickery.QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 6 2015, 05:16 PM)
You have that option already. You want a space game, you play Eclipse Phase. You want a Shadowrun Game, you play Shadowrun. Done. The two just do not intrinsically play well in the same game space. You could always force them to do so, but that is not their intent.
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 6 2015, 05:56 PM)
See, I don't think you need a different era for such things, though. Each setting you enumerate above is more of a STYLE rather than an actual ERA. They can, and do, all exist simultaneously and can be used separate or together dependent upon the game one wants to play. It is all on how you focus the narrative.
I agree that with a whole planet as your playground you can choose whatever playstyle you want, but you have to agree that the current tech level influences the setting strongly. If you want "oldschool" Shadowrun with wired Matrix and cyberware as the staple of augmentation, 4E or 5E won't work too well for you. Generally, as biotech, genetech and nanotech develop, Shadowrun's main timeline will be moving from classical cyberpunk to "postcyberpunk", "biopunk" or what have you. Then, as digital upload becomes more and more commonplace, it will be moving towards hardcore transhumanism.Can you play a "classic cyberpunk" game in transhuman 2090ies (date guesstimated)? Sure you can, somewhere in the third world gutters.
But why should you, when at the very least that will cost you familiar surroundings and cultural mores? When instead you could be shadowrunning in the SCIRE in 2060? And the only thing needed is a rulesystem flexible enough to support it.
I didn't find anything specific about an age-old question:
Do I need to buy Strength and Agility for cybertorsos and -skulls? (Please say no, pleasesayno, plsano...)
Do I need to buy Strength and Agility for cybertorsos and -skulls? (Please say no, pleasesayno, plsano...)
QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Jul 6 2015, 05:39 PM)
While I enjoy the conversation, I think we're drifting a tad. Might be time to split the thread.
Yep, seriously. SR gets an AI Ghost Dance, "efficient deep-space drives, artificial gravity, and some sci-fi theoretical stuff that is so far beyond me I don’t have a clue what to call it", after they already blew it and declared CFD nanites to be self-replicating, and you argue about how close SR magic and EP "Mind Hacks" are.
If anything, argue if the ETI have landed on Mars
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 7 2015, 08:07 PM)
If anything, argue if the ETI have landed on Mars
Yes, but that was at least during the Fourth World.QUOTE (Sengir @ Jul 7 2015, 12:07 PM)
Yep, seriously. SR gets an AI Ghost Dance, "efficient deep-space drives, artificial gravity, and some sci-fi theoretical stuff that is so far beyond me I don’t have a clue what to call it", after they already blew it and declared CFD nanites to be self-replicating, and you argue about how close SR magic and EP "Mind Hacks" are.
If anything, argue if the ETI have landed on Mars
If anything, argue if the ETI have landed on Mars
Aww, c'mon Sengir, it's far, far too much to expect that people writing a science fiction RPG have ever read any Sci-Fi! After all, they could never have thought far enough ahead to understand why Von Neumann machines are a bad idea, or what a Grey Goo attack is! Engines of Creation is far too old to have even been worth considering reading!
I mean, it's not like they'd put a literal End Of The World scenario in motion in their game by accident, right?
Moreover wasn't this whole CFD plotline supposed to get us away from nanotech and other transhumanism-associated technological development--because that's not cyberpunk. It was the premise of this debate anyway: http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=39498 Seems to be back worse than before.
QUOTE
Engines of Creation is far too old to have even been worth considering reading!
I wonder if they read The Diamond Age and Snow Crash.
QUOTE
If anything, argue if the ETI have landed on Mars wink.gif
*groan* It's like this is SR3's Missions X-Files bullshit all over again.
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 7 2015, 08:15 PM)
*groan* It's like this is SR3's Missions X-Files bullshit all over again.
Oh, I liked that adventure. Missions was Second Edition though. Took them one edition to make the secret history public knowledge. In other words immediately. This I hated.
QUOTE (Fatum @ Jul 7 2015, 07:22 PM)
Yes, but that was at least during the Fourth World.
Nothing in the 4th World came close Type III on the Kardashev scale. Artificial gravity and things we don't even have names for, on the other hand, might be just the kind of thing such a civilization could pull off...
On the more positive side, I like the inclusion of several augmentations for simply everyday practicality, like the food and waste containers. Although it gets a bit too nitty-gritty with the lactose tolerance upgrade, something more general (think ogre stomach) would have done
PS: For those who don't play Eclipse Phase:
The ETI (extraterrestrial intelligence) is the civilization that dominates galactic life in Eclipse Phase.
The ETI is incredibly old and powerful—a Type III or even Type IV civilization on the Kardashev scale. It is capable of megascale engineering projects and enjoys an understanding of physics, matter, energy, and universal laws that makes all of transhuman knowledge seem insignificant in comparison. Most likely, the ETI itself evolved from some sort of artificial intelligence singularity event in its own past, ascending to a godlike level of super-intelligence. It may no longer be recognizably biological.
Essentially the Great Old Ones on steroids, so powerful that civilizations on the scale of (trans-)humanity simply don't register anymore.
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