Sigh...I guess that's the price for the new emphasis on full-color artwork, can't mix line drawings and color renders.

Shouldn't the Sea Sprite and Catalina II have the Secondary Propulsion: Amphibious (Surface) mod built in?

The Sea Sprite description clearly talks about landing on water "the Sea Sprite is able to land directly on the water.", and the Catalina II is an "amphibious aircraft" by description and art.

What about Vehicle Weapons (Things like Tank Guns, Waterthrowers, Harpoons, Big Fat Lasers/Gausrifles, Autocannons, Weapons to big to carry arround as a Metahuman in general...)? Forgot Those? I think they are somewhat relevant for a Rigger.

Just a reminder that Wakshaani is gathering for the errata to try and push some of the typos/chart & table corrections/etc into the print version before final printing so be sure to pop over to the main errata thread and throw it in the pot.

Had a look at a friend's copy. First impression, it's a list of vehicles (and a quite extensive one), but not really a rigger book.
There are a handful each of positive and negative qualities and life paths, but that's about it for rigger characters -- no cyberware, no programs, no new RCCs or mods for existing ones. Also seemingly absent or hidden too well for the casual look are rules clarifications, like a revised speed table or how to fire remotely operated weapons (Agility vs. Logic).

Those are the outs, what's in is fairly obvious from the return of our dear friend the TOC: A huge load of vehicles and drones, interrupted by half-page artwork panels every other page or so (sometimes every page, sometimes none for a couple of pages) and more frequently by shadowtalk. All vehicle artworks seems to be full color and looks fairly original, not like the repainted WWII rifles from Gun Heaven.

Also...interesting is that there are two modification chapters, one for drones and one for vehicles. I'm not exactly sure what that's supposed to achieve, but again, I only skimmed the book so there may be some wisdom in it.

And of course as usual for 5th, lots of fiction. Every chapter seems to have one page of intro fiction, then there are larger pieces of fiction thrown in, so occasionally there are two fiction blocks right after another. Confusing if you are already struggling with a tablet that only scrolls when it likes to

That's always a tricky one. The end answre is that they only move on water via thier main propulsion systems... neither has an outboard motor for chugging around. As such, they didn't get a secondary system. They *float*, but if your flying engine(s) are out, that's all you're gonna do.

We didn't cover the heavy MilSpec stuff, so the BIG GUNS, like arty and whatnot aren't there. There's always a problem with that... if you make stuff THAT big, it's either A) one-shot insta-gib on anything a 'runner has or B) nerfed so bad that people are NOT amused. I don't think I have to invoke a certain explosion in a certain book. So, with very little in teh way of MilSpec, there wasn't much need of teh Big Guns. Mind you, there's plenty of room out there for that stuff later. I can already see three or four Rigger-friendly PDFs in my mind's eye, maybe more, that could later be released in a book format. Big Guns would be in one of those.

I can't say more, as at least one of these mind's-eye books is something I'll be sending a proposal for Upstairs, to try and get y'all some new goodies.

I don't think balance is a problem for those guns, they are supposed to be the oh fuck end-all and not something runners regularly use/encounter. Which IMO also makes having stats for an MBT main gun a lower priority than other stuff. What happened to the security riggers you wanted to put in, for example?

So you took the maybe 1/4 of the content of the 4th Edition Arsenal, stretched it out to fill a whole book with a lot off pointless filler (like the fluff desciptions of the vehicles that do never fit the actual crunch or pictures) and left a lot of stuff out, like new Hard/Software for Riggers, a possibility to defend against hackers, a fix for the Speed problem, vehicular weapons etc...

I mean sure, the money-grab via PDF-only Addons to fill the obvious gabs is expected at this point. I am not sure if CGL can sink any lower in terms of quality, but I am sure to be supprised when the next book releases...

if you have to worry about how much damage a MBT does, it's probably already far Far FAR too late to matter.

The drone mod Realistic Features doesn't mention MP cost and is the only one that doesn't.

So... no MP cost or [rating] MP cost?

I don't have the book yet but I think there has been some fixes to speed. there now different movement types, ground,rotor,jet,water. so now a speed 4 drone using rotor movement is faster then a speed 6 car using ground movement.

The only thing I noticed were modifiers for chase combat. Even if those apply generally, the multiplier for groundcraft was 1, so supersonic cars are still a thing (and aircraft get even worse).

How do you get supersonic cars any ways?

D'oh! (Adds it to the list)

It should be equal to Rating, yes.

Fast car to begin with.
Spirit with Movement Power.
Allthough, there was a way to make a super sonic car purely mechanical in SR3 if i remember correctly.

OH OK,Magic then. I guess that makes sense.

So the Tundra-9 has an outboard motor? (Page 155 or Rigger5 gives amphibious to the Tundra-9 in the core book.)

It was actually this inconsistency that made me ask.

Speed 8 equals a running rate of 1280 m/turn, a turn lasts 3 seconds, that's 1536 kph. If you use the English rules, a VCR adds its rating to the Speed, so anything with Speed 5 will do

The German version says this only affects the limits and does not actually increase the value, but a Westwind still goes to 7 and taking that up one notch can't be hard with all the new mods.

The English rules also says a RCC only adds to the limit

Wakshaani posted some unofficial speed-to-KPH conversions on the official forums. Will this prevent supersonic cars?

I can understand generalization to an extent, but I feel some things just should not be generalized. I think we've seen a prime example of that in SR5's vehicle's Speed attribute vs. true KPH.

My supposedly updated PDF still says on page 452 that "the rating of your control rig is added to the Handling and Speed of any vehicle you are jumped into."

Did I miss out an update mail?

So it does. I was going by page 266. It says the "limits of that device are increased by the rating of your control rig" . I'm really starting to see the problems every one else is having with the rules,too many contradictions and unclear rules.

how the hell do you delete posts?

time travel, otherwise it's mod only

Having finally gotten a working credit card again, I still can't figure out the rationale behind two sets of mod rules. Somebody help me out?

The Drone mod rules are quick and dirty, as a streamlined system to tweak your drone, while the vehicle mod rules allow for a lot more customizing because you have different categories each with their own set of points for changing up use of internal space or weapon mounts.

The book does say if you don't want to use the drone mod rules, you can just use the vehicle mod rules for both types instead if that makes things easier for you.

consider the Drone Mod Rules as optional to the basic Vehicle Mod Rules

with an optional Dance
Medicineman

Ah yes, I overlooked the stealthy fat print

But the drone system still looks more like a parallel evolution to me -- an evolution which finally overcomes the old problem of body as a catch-all, so it really was frustrating to see the non-drone rules get back to that (ok, except for seating capacity).

Really liking some of the new stuff but we are still using SR4 rules. Is there anything that changed vehicle wise for SR5 or can I use everything as is?

- Handling is a limit in 5th as opposed to a bonus, but you can simply settle on 3 or 4 as a default value and use the difference to that default as the "legacy" handling

- Speed in 5th is simply messed up, you'll need to eyeball that

- Prices are a bit difficult. I'd say you can knock off one third from all combat vehicles/drones, most of the regular drones and vehicles are still in the same ballpark.

Thanks Sengir, bought it this weekend to introduce some mayhem in the next game.

My biggest question remains what it has been since SR2.

Can you kill someone by hitting them with a car yet? The SR3 rules were more likely to kill the driver from the Crash test than hitting someone with a decent BOD and basic impact armor, and I've never been able to get a straight set of calculations for doing it in SR5.

Do you WANT that to be the case is the next question, what with cheapish flying fast drones . . Or the ability to "simply hack some random vehicle and convince it's autopilot to drive into people"

No, I just want to avoid the half hour table break when the rigger tries to run over a corpsec heavy with his van and insists I not narrate the injury but actually produce a correct dv.

It somehow got lost in teh shuffle, but the drone speeds can be used for everything else to make life a bit more rational.

MODE -- MULTIPLIER
Ground -- 30 KPH
Rotor -- 60 KPH
Jet -- 600 KPH
Water - 15 KPH

Just multiply Speed times MPH and you're good. (Thus, a Speed 4 ground vehicle goes up to 120 KPH, a Speed 4 Rotorcraft goes 240 kph, and a SPeed 4 watercraft goes 60 KPH) ... it's a little rough, but it'll make the speeds *vastly* more rational.

(With the exception of Anthromorphic drones. I forgot to go back and slow 'em down! D'oh!)

would treating anthro drones speed as agility work for calculating movement rates?

Independently of the actual multipliers, just switching to linear increases instead of making an increase by 1 go straight from "high speed" to "ridiculous speed" is already an improvement

But it reminds me of something else I was wondering when reading the book: Why didn't you just tack on the G/R/J/W prefixes to all speeds, instead of just drones?

Because I only had teh drone chapter.

My original chart did attach those codes to teh previously-published drones as well, including some stat changes to keep everything on teh same format. I don't know if those were lost to the demons of Copy Pasteo or not.

The speed sthemselves were based on a few notions... ground speed vehicles that were intended purely for inner-city driving could get a speed of 2 (60 KPH, or *roughly* 40 MPH) to represent upjumped golfcart style future rides, Speed 3 was a bit more, but Generic Car would top out at 120 KPH, which is *roughly* 80 MPH, making them akin to today's cars. Once that was established, then you'd have a good baseline to draw from for things like "Large truck" or "sports car" and things would click smoothly.

I also wanted to split up flyers, so that on one hand you'd have Lighter-than-Air stuff and rotorcraft, but you'd also have room for stuff breaking the sound barrier. Originally, I had a modifier up there as well, to walk people through how to do chases between two different modes (Like when a chopper is chasing a boat), but it wasn't needed as that was covered in the actual chase chapter (I happened to get done earlier than they did, or I never would have bothered in the frst place!) ... their rules were better, so my were trimmed off. (For the record, I fully support this. As others have noted, I am by not on teh ruels team, nor am I the go-to guy for rulesfoo. Know your limitations and don't let your ego harm a project, people!)

You can use the listed formula for normal vehicles and it shouldn't cause any real harm to anything, by the by. Or you can ignore it and just use the speeds listed in Sr5 core. It's all good!

I know it would have cost more for the art, but it would have been nice with more pictures of vehicles

I'd have loved to get a lot of teh old B&W in there, personally. Some of it's dated, but some of it's *amazing*.

I wounder if a art folio E-book with old and new illustrations of gear, weapons ,Vehicles and drones would be a worthwhile product ?

That's basically what the gear cards are...Unfortunately the gear cards also show the problem with using B&W art, no matter how good the pieces are individually it looks strange next to full-color pieces. And the weird yellow shading on the B&W art does not help


Artwork questions aside, what I'd really like would be an expanded PDF version not limited by the "card" thing, with the full description text, upgrades, condition monitors, the works.

Was in my flgs today and they had Rigger5 in their new arrivals section. (And Hard Targets too, which they hadn't had last time I was in, a couple of weeks back)

Not sure how long they have been out, but thought I'd mention it

*I8 didn't know it was on shelves yet.

Know what I gotta order form my FLGS, now! Yay!

The art looks pretty sweet in the hardback, and I'm really enjoying the book overall.

(Also Been trying to read chapter heading fiction, but the fate of Cupcakes depressed me off of that again.)

Not guilty on that one! I kill someone off in Market Panic, but for Chrome Flesh and Rigger 5, nobody dies.