QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jul 9 2017, 06:33 AM)
You all realize that the Matrix has never been a realistic simulation of computer networking, right?
The core fundamental concepts for the Matrix came from William Gipson's Neuromancer.
Why on earth would you want it to be realistic anyway? It's not fun or very playable to read through lines of code looking for a place where you can cause a stackover flow so you can start reallocating bytes of data to access the data you actually want. Likewise with real network security it doesn't take minutes or hours to do a hack, but months or years to find vulnerabilities in a system, which is unplayable in the scales that Shadowruns happen.
It's easy to criticize CGL, but the real difference between a hyper abstracted game system that represents hacking, and that of a realistic simulation of hacking; is basically playability.
You guys will either create a system that betrays the core concepts of the Matrix, or you'll just make something insanely unfun. A mystical magical Matrix is the right move, because there is no reason that a fantasy computer network in 60-ish years from now should be anything like what we currently have.
I am aware of that and this is not the issue I have... there are "sacrifices" to realism that have to be made for play ability and that is ok. But throwing logic and realism out of the window and drowning it afterwards is my issue and I think that is what the 5e Matrix is.
There is in my opinion no problem with abstract representations of hacking and computers.
The Matrix in Neuromancer is still based on technological constructs and had in the confines of his fictional universe an inherent logic.
The Matrix in Shadowun 5e is a construct based on unicorn farts, fairy dust and the dreams and wishes of little children as far as we know and it sprang up basically over night with not one person understand why and how and everyone went "*shrug*That will work!"
QUOTE (DeathStrobe @ Jul 10 2017, 05:10 AM)
The Matrix being mystical doesn't mean magical. It means that its so complex that it's incomprehensible. Once again, this is a post singularity world. People don't need to understand how the under lying system works, but how to use the 3D abstractions to make it do what they want.
I pull a level and a secret door opens works both in a mansion in meat world and a host system in the Matrix.
This is a world where a computer virus destroyed the internet in 2029, and cyber commandos fought it in virtual reality across the entire internet. This is a world where the Matrix somehow became self aware and started to rewire children's brains to interface with the Matrix. This is a world where an elf decker fell in love with an advance computer program and gave it sentience. None of that can be done realistically.
I have to disagree on your statement that people don't need to understand how the underlying systems work. Like I mentioned a few times before... most people don't need to know how that stuff works yes... that is even true today.
But the Matrix was build by human hands, engineers and scientists created it... and yes even these people don't need to know every detail individually. BUT! Their combined knowledge amounts to knowing to the smallest detail on how the matrix works... at least it should... because this is how technology works.
Now in a true post Singularity world technology would not be build by humans and things are different and you could argue that Deus was the Singularity moment. But then my other argument from above comes into play... why would the corporations so easily put the fate of the world into the hands of super intelligence after the experiences with Deus, two devastating crashes and at the same time another technology doing the body snatcher thing?
Corporate greed and stupidity have their limits when it comes to maintaining their wealth and power... and the matrix is the key to this and even to a point human existence itself with everything from food production, power, transportation, financial system, military weapons and almost everything else depending on it.
If we accept that the 5e Matrix is the direct product of the technological singularity than it is potentially the biggest thread to human existence that ever existed.
Edit:
I want to add something about abstraction and computers...
Even today in our world we work with huge level of abstraction when it comes to computers. Any code programmers write is a simplified representation of how the processor works. Even the processor is an abstraction because it is (oversimplified) just a collection of logic gates.
The graphical interface we use is another level of abstraction.
The more complex computer systems will get the more we will need to reinvent the way to use them. In this regard Gipson's Matrix makes sense.
Edit 2:
We like to think we made such great strides in computer technology in the last 60-70 years... but if you really look at it the big stride was miniaturization, allowing us to pack more logic gates, more memory into smaller spaces.
Since the invention of the first integrated circuit in 1958 that is all we basically did. The technology did not change, it just got smaller.
And here I lost my train of thought... pls forgive me as I am on some pretty heavy pain meds right now... or simplified... I am high as a kite! I was planning on making a point with these two edits I swear!