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KCKitsune
OK, everyone... this is bugging the ever lovin' begeezus out of me!

Why is it that someone with cybernetic eyes has to take up 3 slots in their eyes AND have wireless enabled to get +3 to their perception checks and some bozo who gets tetrachromic vision gets the same bonus without any drawbacks? Oh and it shifts Partial light to Full light... you know... because!

Do the makers of cybereyes not think "You know guys, that tetrachromic vision drek is a big seller with the genemod crowd... maybe we should get into it!" Hell I'm willing to say it takes two slots in a cybereye to install it!
binarywraith
A. Wireless bonuses are terribly written as always.

B. Likely the two pieces of 'ware were written by two different writers who have never seen each other's stat lines, and the editor didn't care to sanity check.
Mantis
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jun 29 2017, 06:27 AM) *
A. Wireless bonuses are terribly written as always.

B. Likely the two pieces of 'ware were written by two different writers who have never seen each other's stat lines, and the editor didn't care to sanity check.

Editor. You're funny. You think this stuff is edited.
SpellBinder
QUOTE (Mantis @ Jun 29 2017, 10:21 AM) *
Editor. You're funny. You think this stuff is edited.
+1
KCKitsune
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jun 29 2017, 09:27 AM) *
A. Wireless bonuses are terribly written as always.

B. Likely the two pieces of 'ware were written by two different writers who have never seen each other's stat lines, and the editor didn't care to sanity check.


Thank you! I was hoping it wasn't just me who saw this and went: "WTF?!?"

I completely and utter agree with you about the wireless bonuses. If that's the one thing I hate most about SR5 it's that. The other thing I hate is the nerfing of cyber/bioware. In 4th you got a discount on the 'ware type you had less of. This a BIG deal for everyone (except for the Awakened/Emerged... maybe).
SpellBinder
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jun 29 2017, 09:20 PM) *
... In 4th you got a discount on the 'ware type you had less of. This a BIG deal for everyone (except for the Awakened/Emerged... maybe).
I know what you mean. I've got some characters in SR4 that are dead in SR5 because of the change in Essence rules. And one of them is (or was, after 2075/01/09) a mystic, too.

And in SR3's Man & Machine there was a general rule on discounting costs on cyberware and bioware based on what other cyberware you had. For example, if you had both of your legs replaced with cyber legs then you got a 20% discount (Essence & ) for bone lacing.

Honestly it made sense when dealing with cyberlimbs. The current rules (SR4 & SR5) effectively double tax you in Essence & money if you've got any kind of cyberlimb beyond just a hand or foot and any any kind of full on bodyware (like dermal plating, bone lacing, muscle replacement, etc.). Hell, I'd even give a discount on Move By Wire for a character that's got any full on cyberlimbs.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Jun 30 2017, 01:19 AM) *
Honestly it made sense when dealing with cyberlimbs. The current rules (SR4 & SR5) effectively double tax you in Essence & money if you've got any kind of cyberlimb beyond just a hand or foot and any any kind of full on bodyware (like dermal plating, bone lacing, muscle replacement, etc.). Hell, I'd even give a discount on Move By Wire for a character that's got any full on cyberlimbs.


JanessaVR was coming up with House Rules on cyber that were pretty good.

Also, about your statement about Move By Wire... If you had someone replace all their limbs with Cyber, then I'd not only massively discount MBW (Essence wise... it's still going to cost you a pretty nuyen.gif ), I would have it get rid of ALL of the negative side effects. I mean, think about it. The main problem with MBW is it put your whole body in seizure and then directed you in a "more efficient manner". If you have both arms and legs replaced with cyber, then I can see MBW not needing to put you into seizure. Your new limbs are already tuned for max performance (especially if you get custom str and agility mods) and the MBW can just have a direct line to the limbs.
binarywraith
QUOTE (Mantis @ Jun 29 2017, 11:21 AM) *
Editor. You're funny. You think this stuff is edited.


Now I didn't say that. I'm sure there's someone who has the job title, and draws a paycheck at Catalyst, but it's pretty self evident they're actually spending their time doing literally anything but editing.

QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jun 30 2017, 12:55 AM) *
JanessaVR was coming up with House Rules on cyber that were pretty good.

Also, about your statement about Move By Wire... If you had someone replace all their limbs with Cyber, then I'd not only massively discount MBW (Essence wise... it's still going to cost you a pretty nuyen.gif ), I would have it get rid of ALL of the negative side effects. I mean, think about it. The main problem with MBW is it put your whole body in seizure and then directed you in a "more efficient manner". If you have both arms and legs replaced with cyber, then I can see MBW not needing to put you into seizure. Your new limbs are already tuned for max performance (especially if you get custom str and agility mods) and the MBW can just have a direct line to the limbs.


Eh, I always figured the move by wire issue was that eventually your nervous system would build up stress and damage from it. Much less if it goes bad, talk about grand mal seizures until you snap your own spine. frown.gif
SpellBinder
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jun 29 2017, 11:55 PM) *
JanessaVR was coming up with House Rules on cyber that were pretty good.

Also, about your statement about Move By Wire... If you had someone replace all their limbs with Cyber, then I'd not only massively discount MBW (Essence wise... it's still going to cost you a pretty nuyen.gif ), I would have it get rid of ALL of the negative side effects. I mean, think about it. The main problem with MBW is it put your whole body in seizure and then directed you in a "more efficient manner". If you have both arms and legs replaced with cyber, then I can see MBW not needing to put you into seizure. Your new limbs are already tuned for max performance (especially if you get custom str and agility mods) and the MBW can just have a direct line to the limbs.
There's a benefit to MBW in SR4 & SR5 that didn't exist in SR3. It's called an "Off" switch. Ingenious concept, really, should be implemented on many more things. wink.gif

Seriously, after SR3 you can deactivate the MBW implant so you can reduce the stress it's placing on your body.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Jun 30 2017, 11:02 AM) *
There's a benefit to MBW in SR4 & SR5 that didn't exist in SR3. It's called an "Off" switch. Ingenious concept, really, should be implemented on many more things. wink.gif

Seriously, after SR3 you can deactivate the MBW implant so you can reduce the stress it's placing on your body.


Yeah, an off switch is a good idea. smile.gif

I also think my idea of discounting MBW if you have all 4 limbs replace with cyber is also a good idea.
JanessaVR
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jun 29 2017, 11:55 PM) *
JanessaVR was coming up with House Rules on cyber that were pretty good.

Just FYI, those rules are here.
hermit
QUOTE
In 4th you got a discount on the 'ware type you had less of. This a BIG deal for everyone (except for the Awakened/Emerged... maybe).

But that was too much math to handle for the average Shadowrun player. So it was scrapped just before publication in one of Hardy's "I can do it because I'm the boss" edits. Move fast and break things!
KCKitsune
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 3 2017, 02:19 AM) *
But that was too much math to handle for the average Shadowrun player. So it was scrapped just before publication in one of Hardy's "I can do it because I'm the boss" edits. Move fast and break things!


Wow! Hardy must think gamers as COMPLETE idiots!

I mean how hard is it tally up your Bio/Cyberware and then say "Which one of these is lower?" At that point you divide the lower part by 2 and that's how much of an Essence discount you got.
SpellBinder
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 3 2017, 01:48 AM) *
Wow! Hardy must think gamers as COMPLETE idiots!

I mean how hard is it tally up your Bio/Cyberware and then say "Which one of these is lower?" At that point you divide the lower part by 2 and that's how much of an Essence discount you got.
It is rather hard when when they're equal. When you've got 1 point in cyber and 1 point in bio, which do you choose? wink.gif

But just check the math for biocompatibility and cyber/bioware grades in SR5 (calculate 10% of 0.5 for Deltaware, subtract that 10%, and then round that number down to the nearest tenth instead of Multiplier -0.1 and go), or how the mental attributes are handled for true elementals in Forbidden Arcana. For those elementals it's Force minus half Force (rounded down); they apparently couldn't just say that the spirit's mental attributes were half Force (rounded up), but I guess they're into the current American math of excessive calculation steps.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Jul 3 2017, 06:05 AM) *
It is rather hard when when they're equal. When you've got 1 point in cyber and 1 point in bio, which do you choose? wink.gif

But just check the math for biocompatibility and cyber/bioware grades in SR5 (calculate 10% of 0.5 for Deltaware, subtract that 10%, and then round that number down to the nearest tenth instead of Multiplier -0.1 and go), or how the mental attributes are handled for true elementals in Forbidden Arcana. For those elementals it's Force minus half Force (rounded down); they apparently couldn't just say that the spirit's mental attributes were half Force (rounded up), but I guess they're into the current American math of excessive calculation steps.


If you got exactly one point of Bio and one point of Cyber... then whatever your character wants more of (cyber or bio), the other type gets the discount.

RE the current American math: ... I looked at that garbage and it makes NO sense. No wonder why Asians are kicking our hoops up and down the block! Also, I've said this to my friends and coworkers, but I truly and honestly believe that NORTH KOREA has a better cyber warfare force than the US. While Koreans are going through hardcore Computer Science training, our "special snowflake" college kids are arguing about who is allowed to use which restroom... and racking up HUMONGOUS student loans getting worthless degrees doing so.
binarywraith
Without going into a further derail, you're ranting about the difference between a technical/trade school education (teaching a job) and a college education that requires a grounding in general education and the humanities as well as technical training.

They're different curriculum entirely, and have different pros and cons.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 4 2017, 12:54 AM) *
Without going into a further derail, you're ranting about the difference between a technical/trade school education (teaching a job) and a college education that requires a grounding in general education and the humanities as well as technical training.

They're different curriculum entirely, and have different pros and cons.


True. I should not have brought it up and I apologize. I'm going to drop this whole line right now before I have the mods looking at this thread and saying "Time to break out the ban hammer."

----------------------------------

Anyways, back to the topic at hand: Is there anything else that makes anyone sit up and go, "Hey! WAIT A COTTON PICKIN' MINUTE!"

To me, it's the price of Decks. Talk about having something so vital to your character "class" (Decker) able to be fragged with by a lucky roll and you're SOL with no ability to do your main role in the party. At least with SR4 you could buy a replacement commlink for 8000 nuyen.gif, and an afternoon worth of work. Sure it was bare bones with a response of 4, and signal 5, but it still worked.
SpellBinder
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 3 2017, 07:04 AM) *
If you got exactly one point of Bio and one point of Cyber... then whatever your character wants more of (cyber or bio), the other type gets the discount.
Hence the wink.gif

Maybe I should've used cool.gif instead.

But for the new question at hand, can't really say without dredging up a whole lot of stuff that's been said and said again repeatedly. But I'll choose one little point and it's the mysterious +2 to the living persona stats that NPC technomancers like Mega Pulse (from the SR5 book's character creation section) or Sam (NPC from the first Chicago mission) get but PC technomancers are denied.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Jul 4 2017, 02:19 PM) *
Hence the wink.gif

Maybe I should've used cool.gif instead.

But for the new question at hand, can't really say without dredging up a whole lot of stuff that's been said and said again repeatedly. But I'll choose one little point and it's the mysterious +2 to the living persona stats that NPC technomancers like Mega Pulse (from the SR5 book's character creation section) or Sam (NPC from the first Chicago mission) get but PC technomancers are denied.


NPC Technomancers benefit from the mysterious power of "THE PLOT COMPELS YOU!!!" rather than anything more concrete. I've never played a technomancer, nor do I think I ever will.

If I were to play a Matrix specialist I would play either a Physical Adept with the power points shaped to helping me in the Matrix, or a Decker with just enough cyberware to make me not useless in a fire fight.
hermit
QUOTE
It is rather hard when when they're equal. When you've got 1 point in cyber and 1 point in bio, which do you choose? wink.gif

It doesn't matter? You lose 1,5 Essence either way. And it's not like you'll get uture discounts that way.

QUOTE
Also, I've said this to my friends and coworkers, but I truly and honestly believe that NORTH KOREA has a better cyber warfare force than the US.

I wouldn't say that. Like the IT industry (and, really, any industry reliant on educated workers) in Anglo countries in general, the NSA and similar agencies know the value of immigrants.

QUOTE
To me, it's the price of Decks. Talk about having something so vital to your character "class" (Decker) able to be fragged with by a lucky roll and you're SOL with no ability to do your main role in the party. At least with SR4 you could buy a replacement commlink for 8000 nuyen.gif, and an afternoon worth of work. Sure it was bare bones with a response of 4, and signal 5, but it still worked.

The price of the decks is one thing, but its only part of what makes me sit up: The way the system punishes mundanes. Not only by price (from the ludicrous pricing of cyberware and decks to universal hackability and the implications of sneaking without stealth attributes) but also by enforcing a power creep among mages with more and more powerful options in literally every book, while mundanes get next to nothing that compares.

Of course, magic is easier to write and requires a lot less skill to avoid reality checks - you can make magic do anything without someone popping up and saying "hey, that is not how physics work!". Which brings me to the worst part of Shadowrun under Hardy - low quality, lazy writing, and pure arrogance on part of many authors when either is pointed out.
Sengir
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 3 2017, 10:48 AM) *
I mean how hard is it tally up your Bio/Cyberware and then say "Which one of these is lower?" At that point you divide the lower part by 2 and that's how much of an Essence discount you got.

It got hard with Essence holes, you had to keep a seperate tally of bioware and cyberware holes or get absurd results. And before that you had the bio index, aka. the rules abuse highscore.

Just like complains about "snowflakes" by people from the generation which was subject to the same claim in their youth or moral panics about youth culture in general, bioware rules seem to be a generation thing. What we have right now is always horrible, back in my day everything was great biggrin.gif
JanessaVR
QUOTE (hermit @ Jul 5 2017, 02:54 AM) *
Of course, magic is easier to write and requires a lot less skill to avoid reality checks - you can make magic do anything without someone popping up and saying "hey, that is not how physics work!". Which brings me to the worst part of Shadowrun under Hardy - low quality, lazy writing, and pure arrogance on part of many authors when either is pointed out.

Dearly wish it was back under FASA's roof. And then we'd get official links to Earthdawn back as well. Double win. smile.gif
KCKitsune
OK everyone, since I was the original person to start this thread I can necro this thread. smile.gif

Now what does everyone think would be fair rules to have a cyber version of this? I mean it SHOULD be easier to install this in cybereyes than a genemod.
SpellBinder
In the ideal of "game balance" I'd make the cybernetic tetrachromatic vision mod be 0.4 Essence, 6 Capacity, 16 Availability, and 20,000 for all the same benefits as the geneware version. This puts it as bigger, bulkier, harder to get, and more costly than a rating 3 Vision Enhancement vision mod and Lowlight Vision; you're paying an extra cost for the benefit of not having to have it wirelessly enabled to get the benefits, or knock the price down to 15,000 and add the wireless requirement to get the Perception bonus.

In a more practical mindset I'd probably just with 0.1 Essence, 3 Capacity, 14 Availability, and 14,000 for it, which puts it as slightly harder to get and a little more costly than a rating 3 Vision Enhancement mod & hang the wireless bulldrek for the +3 Perception bonus and other benefits of the geneware, including actually seeing the ultraviolet wavelength in full.

Now in the tradition of the differences between cyberware vs. bioware & geneware, you could also go with 0.2 Essence, 3 Capacity; 7 Availability, and 4,000 for it since basic cyberware has traditionally been cheaper and easier to get yet harder on Essence than bioware & geneware. But then why bother with getting a Low Light and Vision Enhancement mods in your cybereyes when they cost more than three times as much as a single Tetrachromatic mod?
Titan
SpellBinder beat me to it mostly.

The lil' engineer in me says that it is relatively easy - if not expensive - to just alter basic cybereyes.

But then the game balance side of me tells me it has to cost essence / capacity, or else the whole system starts to collapse. Beyond that, I can't do better than SpellBinder.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Jul 26 2017, 10:47 AM) *
But then why bother with getting a Low Light and Vision Enhancement mods in your cybereyes when they cost more than three times as much as a single Tetrachromatic mod?


Well Low Light vision allows you to ignore Partial and Dim Light vision penalties... yeah I know that's weak considering that most people with cybereyes has some other vision mod, but it is still why low light vision is "better" than tetrachromic vision.
Glyph
Unfortunately, tetrochromatic vision was balanced by basically saying "Here's this mod that gives some sweet bonuses, but nothing else stacks with it." So if you offered it as a cybereye mod, everyone would take it, as it is basically low-light vision combined with rating: 3 vision enhancement that you don't need wireless to use.

You could always rule that having an additional type of cone in your eyes gives you a much greater advantage than simply having an extra range in your cybereye's sensors (just like, IIRC, earlier editions of shadowrun had "natural" thermographic vision work better). So the cybernetic version would be similar to low-light vision and not have the perception bonus.

Alternately, you could just say "Screw it, mundanes are overdue for a break" and give it the same cost/capacity as low-light or thermographic mods, leading to everybody taking it.
Beta
I'd somewhat Nerf tetrachromatic vision, as +3 is pretty big. I'm thinking +1, you keep the dim light benefit, and add a note that you see colour that others don't which may occasionally have benefits at distinguishing certain things or otherwise largely unnoticeable marks, but that your sense of how colours go together may at times seem a bit eccentric to others.

And offer 'fourth colour' markers for 50nY each smile.gif
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Glyph @ Jul 27 2017, 09:53 PM) *
Unfortunately, tetrochromatic vision was balanced by basically saying "Here's this mod that gives some sweet bonuses, but nothing else stacks with it." So if you offered it as a cybereye mod, everyone would take it, as it is basically low-light vision combined with rating: 3 vision enhancement that you don't need wireless to use.

You could always rule that having an additional type of cone in your eyes gives you a much greater advantage than simply having an extra range in your cybereye's sensors (just like, IIRC, earlier editions of shadowrun had "natural" thermographic vision work better). So the cybernetic version would be similar to low-light vision and not have the perception bonus.

Alternately, you could just say "Screw it, mundanes are overdue for a break" and give it the same cost/capacity as low-light or thermographic mods, leading to everybody taking it.


This is why I asked what would be fair. I wanted to get from other people what they would do if they were asked this. Me making a decision unilaterally would be a hoop-hole move.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Personally, we do not offer it as Cyber-enhancement at all... seeing as how you can get it in cyber piecemeal, assumming you like wireless.
We leave it just the way it is...

Have had no issues with it in our games.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 28 2017, 08:40 AM) *
Personally, we do not offer it as Cyber-enhancement at all... seeing as how you can get it in cyber piecemeal, assumming you like wireless.
We leave it just the way it is...

Have had no issues with it in our games.


Yeah, that's the way it's written in game, but considering what it is, and how EASY it would be to implement in cybernetics, it doesn't make any sense that it wouldn't be offered as part of a cybereye package.

Also, the Wireless bonuses are so utterly wacked that it makes tetrachromic vision that more powerful.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 28 2017, 08:10 AM) *
Yeah, that's the way it's written in game, but considering what it is, and how EASY it would be to implement in cybernetics, it doesn't make any sense that it wouldn't be offered as part of a cybereye package.

Also, the Wireless bonuses are so utterly wacked that it makes tetrachromic vision that more powerful.


But that Argument can be made for almost any 'ware...
Ease of implementation is irrelevant in my opinion, because I (we) want diversity of various paths for augmentation.
If everything is available on every path, then what is the point of having various paths?

As for Wireless bonuses...., well, that conversation has been had ad naseum, the horse is dead, and that dog don't hunt... it really gets us nowhere.
Me personally... I just do not use Wireless bonuses at all (even if others in my team swear by them)... saves arguments and stress.

That said - I do understand your position. smile.gif cool.gif
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 28 2017, 09:16 AM) *
But that Argument can be made for almost any 'ware...
Ease of implementation is irrelevant in my opinion, because I (we) want diversity of various paths for augmentation.

That's the biggest advantage that cyber has over bio. Almost anything you could do with bioware, you can do with cyberware. Cyber also has the advantage of integrating multiple items into one piece of 'ware.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 28 2017, 07:54 AM) *
That's the biggest advantage that cyber has over bio. Almost anything you could do with bioware, you can do with cyberware. Cyber also has the advantage of integrating multiple items into one piece of 'ware.


And yet there is still Bioware/Geneware that you cannot get as Cyberware...
I think that that is absolutely necessary... I want there to be things that Cyberware just cannot do...
binarywraith
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 28 2017, 10:37 AM) *
And yet there is still Bioware/Geneware that you cannot get as Cyberware...
I think that that is absolutely necessary... I want there to be things that Cyberware just cannot do...


The word you're looking for is 'magic'.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (binarywraith @ Jul 30 2017, 07:29 AM) *
The word you're looking for is 'magic'.


No... the word I am looking for is "Diversity".

Cyberware and Bioware should have some overlap, but they should also have things that the other just cannot do.
Savar
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 31 2017, 09:37 AM) *
No... the word I am looking for is "Diversity".

Cyberware and Bioware should have some overlap, but they should also have things that the other just cannot do.


Yup!
Shinobi Killfist
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 4 2017, 01:33 AM) *
True. I should not have brought it up and I apologize. I'm going to drop this whole line right now before I have the mods looking at this thread and saying "Time to break out the ban hammer."

----------------------------------

Anyways, back to the topic at hand: Is there anything else that makes anyone sit up and go, "Hey! WAIT A COTTON PICKIN' MINUTE!"

To me, it's the price of Decks. Talk about having something so vital to your character "class" (Decker) able to be fragged with by a lucky roll and you're SOL with no ability to do your main role in the party. At least with SR4 you could buy a replacement commlink for 8000 nuyen.gif, and an afternoon worth of work. Sure it was bare bones with a response of 4, and signal 5, but it still worked.


There isn't enough room to list them all in 5E. My biggest pet peeve is critical strike only having one level. It forces classic adepts it's muscle bound mode. Deadly level killing hands in one form or another were around since 1e.
Glyph
Yeah, the only way the adept can do decent damage in unarmed combat is to be a troll and/or get bioware. I know unarmed damage codes could get ludicrous in SR4, but I miss my waif-fu, dammit!
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Glyph @ Aug 10 2017, 07:42 PM) *
Yeah, the only way the adept can do decent damage in unarmed combat is to be a troll and/or get bioware. I know unarmed damage codes could get ludicrous in SR4, but I miss my waif-fu, dammit!



In my experience, you can still get decent damage for your average Hand to Hand combatant without going over the top (And yes, SR4A was over the top)...
Using your full strength value (rather than half value) tends to make up for the lack of options in SR5.

My Waif of a girl Technomancer spy still can put out 7p damage (She has some minor bioware, but not a lot) with only average human strength (Strength 3)...
Pretty decent in my experience.
Our Ork Adept of Shark (who is short of max Strength) puts out 12p or thereabouts.
Glyph
SR5 tilts damage improvements towards the augmentation end. Adepts can get +1 DV from critical strike and up to -4 AP from penetrating strike, as well as some oddball attacks such as nerve strike or elemental strike. Augmented characters, on the other hand, can get bone lacing/density augmentation (up to +3 DV) and striking callus (up to +2 DV), as well as the alternative of cyber-implant weapons (which use the unarmed combat skill in SR5). Both have means to improve their base Strength, although it definitely has a higher opportunity cost for adepts.

I guess I should be happy mundanes get to shine in something, but adepts still have the option of getting bioware to enhance their adept powers. I don't have a thematic problem with that myself, as I like the theme of augmentations being something that can tempt even an awakened character. But people who think that "pure" adepts should be competitive might be even more disgruntled when making martial artists.
binarywraith
All of those augmentations are relatively cheap Essence wise, so there is really no reason an Adept shouldn't take them. 1-2 Essence worth of augs makes an Adept vastly better, and they can then 'catch up' their power points cheaper in play.
Iduno
Having more things based on their magic might tempt adepts not to take cyber/bio in every build. The only power I can think of that adepts care about their magic stat for is attribute boost (roll to get a temporary physical attribute increase on the cheap). Or have their magic stat be the maximum number of different powers they can take?

Right now, it's "synaptic booster 2 costs 1 essence/magic, which is cheaper than the 2.5 it would cost as an adept power." I'd prefer them to add a "but then I have to worry about losing X" or "but then Y is less useful." At least make it take some thought. SR5 "solved" that by making the difference between the number smaller, but non-zero, so it's still a no-brainer in all but edge cases.
SpellBinder
Don't forget the other drawbacks to Essence loss, like the penalty to many Health spells (notably Heal). If you use Limits, your Social and Astral limits (as infrequently as they may be used for most Adepts) also drops with your Essence loss.
Bodak
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Jun 30 2017, 03:02 PM) *
There's a benefit to MBW in SR4 & SR5 that didn't exist in SR3. It's called an "Off" switch.
QUOTE ('Man And Machine p48')
Cyberware that is capable of being activated or deactivated can be done so with a mental impulse. Activating or deactivating cyberware is a Free Action. Methods of manually triggering a cyberware device may also be used, such as a subdermal switch. Such triggers incur no extra cost. Triggering cyberware manually requires a Simple Action.
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