It wasn't a hot idea, the bugs didn't get shit out of it. Ambergel was flavor text. It didn't mark people, it didn't have any mystic power, it was just cool. No-one gained anything from it, except Strice Corporation made some money 'cause it was tasty. Remember, Invae aren't Horrors. They're harbingers. And no-one cared that it was gone excep Strice, which needed a new product.

By "they didn't stop carrying it" I meant no-one raised an uproar, no-one ever found out. Strice did not choose to stop carrying it. No one ever did anything about Ambergel, per se. They kicked something else's ass, and then there wasn't any more.

All I said before was, if one of the bigger Horrors ended up marketing gifts all throughout the world, that would be pretty cool and would be a good way to spread some Marks. I still think that's the case.

Probably. Which I why I've been arguing that it's not our weapons that matter, it's how much we know when things start out. A united Humankind might do pretty well. The Humankind of the shadowrun world - and the real world - is anything but united.

One of these things is not like the other.

Agreed. Isn't that the point of the Will in the first place?


edited for clarity.

As I read it, the first one was sarcasm, mocking the "Horrors can infiltrate anything because humans have no security whatsoever and never question when people in sensitive positions start acting weird" position the pro-Horrors have been pushing.

I could be mistaken but I don't think D mentions "Horrors" in the Will. Certainly not in the context that you make it out to be...

Anyone want to check that for us?

Thanks!




(can too!)

We have weapons that bigger and badder than forces of nature.Make one of those now,and you'll get a good light show,then nothing.

Just use the short form "Vergy"

Vegetable?

Venison?

Verygnomish?

We have weapons that can outpower them, yes, but we still have almost no defense against them. We could eventually take down the thing by hosing down the place with railgun slugs or HMG fire, but every possibility besides the railguns and some naval guns involves distinct risk.
And Req has my back on Chantrel's Horror. The Horror can feed on them just fine; to prevent that you'd have to send everyone neo-Chantrel has ever cared about up as well, in which case Chantrel's Horror goes and finds another victim.

~J

I am in awe of that logic. The scary part is -- it makes sense.

-Siege

Sure there are. They appear in both the adventure Harlequin's Back and the novel House of the Sun.

If we're going to get pedantic, you never specified SR3. Your statement was that there are no Horrors in SR canon.

As Harlequin's back is a published Shadowrun adventure, and since it has not been superceded by any SR3 canon, as far as I knew it was considered canon, especially as far as the timeline is concerned. IIRC, there is even an official (Spanish?) release of Harlequin's Back, updated to SR3 stats (although it might be the original Harlequin instead), which would make it very much SR3 canon if it is true.

The novels have always been officially considered canon in Shadowrun, if not for rules then at the minimum for setting and world events. As far as I know, there is only one novel not considered canon, and that wasn't House of the Sun.

Would that be Worlds Without End? Or something else I haven't read?

Are you saying non-SR3 adventures aren't canon? Like, say, Queen Euphoria or the Super Tuesday set? Those things certainly happened...

As long as our strategy involves moving to the Horror metaplane and invading...that would be all magicians, right? We haven't talked much about Taint, but he's another named Horror that corrupts any magic used by his targets. Best thing is, he doesn't have to Mark them per se for this to work - targets can be tainted and have their magic serve Taint's ends without actually possessing a Mark that can be discerned by others. And it looks like it doesn't just affect spell magic, but also the talents possessed by other disciplines - basically, adept powers. He's going to be tough to take with magic, but there ain't no other options since he's got no physical form, only astral/metaplanar.

And in fully other news, we haven't talked about Ristul either... Ristul is corruption. He's not an entity that can be attacked - in fact it is specifically stated (Horrors, p 64) that Ristul cannot be attacked or destroyed, and will exist until all corruption is purged from the face of the world. I presume this means astral hazing, physiacl pollution, and maybe even corruption as dishonesty and the like; it's not clearly spelled out. He's a sort of a sentient metaplane, and it's hypothesized that three Passions - the ED equivalent of gods - drove themselves mad with corruption trying to keep Ristul from reaching the material plane. They failed, but they're still insane.

edit - for clarity. see how considerate Req is.

Yes but then it wasn't really over then was it?

Note: I don't know how the tone of these last two posts is coming out but I'm not trying to be a dick or rain on anyone's parade. It's just that they are a plot device that serves the story. If you kill the Horrors then the story is over. No more evil, everyone lives in peace and harmony. No more Shadowrun. Now this works out for a book or a movie, where you aren't planning on upteen sequels. For a game that you want to keep publishing indefinitely it doesn't really work so well.

Thanos

I agree. However... as the two games are tied together by canon we can't escape conversations like this. We can ignore it as it isn't really a big deal (yet) in Shadowrun, but it is there.

Which can be debated as the simerulloinasdg (how ever the heck you spell it ) was put together after jrrt's death, by his son. So who knows what would have been taken out/revised? However, I do get your point and I'm sure you can find other stories like that. Having said that...

That is especally true for ED where they (Horrors) are major players from the get go. In Shadowrun they are just background noise and a cute way to tie the two games together.

Next up...

Don't know that much about Earth Dawn but I have a feeling that everything was ok with all the races until the Horrors showed up and corrupted a few people etc.
Yeah. In reality I'm pretty familular with the evil men do. There are others however, in real life that will tell you other wise. That mankind was all sweetness and light until some one tricked/corrupted someone else and then the whole thing went to hell.

I think every one should go back and read my original post carefully. It's a game. The Horrors are part of that game. They are set up in that game to never be confronted (from what I know) directly. They are some of the ones pulling the strings behind the sceens. They are the 4th world equivalent of a evil Mega Corp.
As for the Horrors not fitting in Shadowrun. I recant my pass statement that they don't fit in a cyberpunk setting. sure they do. If you realize that part of cyberpunk is about abuse of power. Just have the right GM.

Thanos

Agreed. Actually in the Horrors sourcebook, the flavor text for Ysrgrthe (Aina's special friend) takes the form of a letter penned by Ysrgrthe in which he argues that he and his buddies are just doing what they do, but the worst "evil" in the world is actually all the (meta)human races.

"Without us, you Name-Givers would be at each others' throats...We give you something you can look down upon, a dark foil to contrast with your imagined superiority. Without us, you would have to look into your own souls and see the ugliness there.

"...We are not the evil ones. You are."

ROTFL

I kept clicking, but I think I've just crossed the line into insanity...

Moo.