I guess the title's self-explanatory: are there any ways that you can make a good Otaku character that isn't totally useless outside of the Matrix? I get that it's kinda the point of Otaku to be total weaklings and basically useless unless they're Matrix-hopping, but are there any ways to make them not suck quite so much in meatspace?

44 assloads of karma put into real world skills, and NOT taking the "max physical attributes of one" option!

Give them a taser. Not much else is so under-rated while still packing a nice punch.

Just my two

Use them as Faces. With Cha 8+, even normal Faces will be jealous.

They don't have enough contacts (just the 2 freebies, IIRC).

But they still have a lot of social attributes backing them up. Detective maybe?

But basically do not take the option of having only a 1 in the physical attributes. It's not worth it and then you are a one-trick pony.

Don

Look, it is not that much of a downside to taking 1s in physical Attributes. An otaku that gets himself shot at deserves to be flatlined.

In all honesty, tell that to black ice before you've bought the neurofilter echo. Then it does really blow to have a 1 in Body. That and gray IC make it almost important to have at least a body of 2 before having neurofilter.

But look at what you're also doing. Physical skills, e.g. combat skills will cost more from your skill points than others. So your combat skills end up low.

Don

Yes, but it is a damned sight easier to boost your physicals with karma from 1 to 2 than your mentals from 8 to 9. Any test needing to use Body as a TN is still 2 instead of 1. Also as having only 1 Body to resist Black IC, your best bet is not to tango with it in the first place, whether your Body is 1 or 2 is moot.

Design them as a real character and don't assume their little kids. I've created two non-thumb-sucking otaku and they have all turned out rather well. Nothing needs to be done except to utterly destroy the whole "they have to be children" mentality.

Except that they do essentially have to be children as they start losing their "powers" shortly after entering adulthood...

Not until they're 21, and all it takes is a custom edge designed with your GM to elminate that stupid aspect.

See, now your including house rules. While I agree this is an open forum to bring house rules into every rule discussion only muddles things up terribly. Many GM's including myself see a certain logic behind the limiting of Otaku.


Further, if you want to look at all from a scientifical standpoint, it is my understanding that most of our brain development happens while we are in the earlier stages of our life, and from then on, our brain fails to generate new cell growth and we degenerate. See the link?


I don't think it's stupid at all. No less stupid then limiting cyberware by Essence, and tying magic to that same essence. Every aspect of the game has several limiting factors. Karma, Nuyen, Essence, Bio-Index. Without an age limit, Otaku only have a single limit, and that is Karma.


Part of the Otaku mystique *IS* that they are Children who have a special connection to the matrix. If you don't like it, that is certainly fine, but to say it's outright stupid is rather inflamatory I think.

I'm going to have to go ahead and agree that eliminating the fading aspect of Otaku will demand that you insert some other limitation to their powers... else, in 10-20 years of game time, you'll start seeing Otaku whose matrix prowess exceeds that of the AIs and who can essentially choose to own the world.

That's a flaw in the design of the Otaku rules (and one can argue that's true of all magicians as well -- if the GM allows them in the game that long, they deserve any headaches created). And it doesnt take 10-20 years of game time... just Karma. A ten-year-old Otaku has 11 years before he starts reaching the Fading anyway, so your argument there is moot to begin with. Of course a decker, after 10-20 years of constantly earning money, improving his deck and utilities, and spending Karma on his Computer skill, has no upper range either. So what's your point here anyway?

Regardless, considering they have the only set of rules in the game in which their characters dwindle away "just because" is contrary to the very nature to the point of character advancement. If they were going to introduce them as a player character concept, they should have made the concept more solid and playable. As it stands now, they're just a different breed of poorly executed magician.

One possible house rule limit is that past 21 an otaku can't increase his submersion grade.

I didn't call you stupid. I called the conclusion stupid. I apologize if you couldn't tell the difference.

And I still consider it stupid because basically what you're saying is exactly the same thing. One's ability to learn new things, process information, and grow (ie, improve mental attributes) demonstrates that the brain doesn't "stop developing" at any point whatsoever. At least not in any functional way. If it did, no one would be able to do anything after hitting 21. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. (And note that the Fading is just that... FADING. Not "no longer advancing" but "fading." They get dumber.)

The fact that there are canonical cases of old otaku and created otaku demonstrates that it's not some child growth phenomenon. It's magic, plain and simple. I know a lot of people don't like to acknowledge it, but everything about the otaku scream magician -- right down to the rules governing their abilities. They summon spirits (sprites), they cast spells (complex forms and channels), they astrally perceive and project (into the Matrix instead of the astral), they initiate and have grades (submerse), they have metamagic techniques (echoes), they're split between hermetica (cyberadepts) and shaman (technoshamans) traditions, they have a Magic Attribute (MPCP), no otaku has ever been known to be a magician (because it would be redundant), and their abilities are clearly painted in their auras. And just like adepts, they didn't start showing up until well after the Awakening. They're as alien to normal magicians as adepts almost are, but they're still magicians nonetheless whether one wants to accept it or not.

The only real difference is that they burn-out through age instead of abuse or Essence loss, and that's the main flaw in their rules design. They should have followed the magician template through entirely (and Drain would have gone a *LONG* way to making a *NOTABLE* difference between Otaku and Deckers without having to cripple the concept) instead of listening to some two-bit shadowtalk that said all otaku are children -- of course they were in the Denver sourcebook, they had only started being born a few years prior! You might as well say all elves and dwarves are forced to be children since they only started showing up in the mainstream around 2011... and were showing up as children.

Bleh. I'm going to pull out. This is all a very sour topic for me.

Wow, did this get off-topic fast. For the record, I agree with Misfit Toy about Otaku being odd modern-Awakened, and that the age vs. Essence/Magic rating limit is the only real difference, but it really is irrelevant to this thread.

Anyway, I like the idea of a taser-wielding otaku. If you make it an elf you can get three points into tasers (it's a specialization of pistols, isn't it?), which works out decently. On the flip side you could go dwarf and use the 3 Str to get throwing weapons at a decent level, etc etc. I guess the big idea here is to go for a metahuman, and use the racial attribute mods to get the stats you need.

I don't like the idea of not taking advantage of the "all physical attributes at 1" rule; IMO Otaku really need all the advantages they can get in the beginning to be useful at all in the Matrix, as a decker can easily outdistance them if the Otaku isn't careful about minmaxing from the very beginning.

As a slightly different view, they are a technological entity's desire to understand magic. The severe curiosities that are known as "AIs" first created the altered neurology as an experiment to be able to meet humans directly. The next phase involved giving them levels of matrix control to match the indirect influence of deckers. The AIs used imagery based on the magic that some humans could wield outside the matrix. Simple observation showed that many humans feared an opponent using magic, so they concluded that "deckers" would fear a magic like opposition. Some were built based on the "shamen" while others were based on the "mages."
Most of these power wielding adjusted humans were also frightening to the AIs that made them. For that reason, the AIs built a fail mechanism into their abilities. Only a few exceptions were written without it, and very few ever become trusted enough to have it removed.

Now, the reason that all otaku show similar types of ability whether they are known AI builds or "Deep" builds is that logical analysis of the same problems will result in similar solutions with the variance usually depending on the presence or lack of some non-critical details.

If your team has a rigger, Gunnery could let you add to the firepower being brought to bear. Launch Weapons for when it hits the fan. Social skillz (yes, with a z). Biotech.

Basically, anything that isn't linked to a physical attribute.

Remember, that Body of 1 only takes ten karma to get to 3, average human.

~J

First of all, the "they must be children" mentality isn't strictly needed. You can have an otaku of age 14-16, who can pass for a young-ish adult. We all know teenagers who can pass as adult often enough.

Second, as Doc pointed out, if you start at age 15, you've got six years of in-game time before you have to worry about Fading. That's an awfully long time.

The third thing to do is what Torturi pointed out-- start them as Faces. Using the point system, you can buy additional contacts; similarily, you can buy them as edges. Buy up Ettiquette and Negotiation; with a Charisma of 8, you can get quite far. As time goes on, you'll want to invest in more headware (headware memory is a must) and if you can afford it, tailored cultured pheremones.

A fourth (very unusual) option is to create a troll otaku. I've never seen this done, but I've heard some people swear by it. The troll benefits offset the physical penalites, so you can choose to only spend 1 point on the physical attributes. Without running the numbers, I'd say that you'd come pretty close to an unaugmented human if you did that-- which isn't too terrible.

My 2 cents...

First of all, the human brain keeps rebuilding, recreating and rewiring it's neurons until it dies, but at no point in our lives does it do it as well or as quickly as during our growth (0 to 16ish) - after that it gradually slows down, becomes less effective at it, and starts deteriorating more quickly. This process also depends on the individual - stimulating the brain with alot of mental tasks (math and similar problemsolving especially) helps it along.

As for Otaku being magically active... Well, the rules are fairly similar, but there are a few points against it. First, Otaku-abilities can be created by AIs, with varying success. From everything written, their abilities stem from being able to rewire their brain in various ways to enable it to interact directly with the matrix. Nothing suggests that their abilities are genetical, as magic is in SR, but instead created. And, thanx to SURGE, we could in theory have a magically active Otaku - though that is mere speculation and up for interpretation.

Now, Fading isn't perfectly logical, but it does make some sense. An Otaku's brain is apparently extremely custom-wired, and would probably require constant remapping and rewiring as they expand, train and maybe even use their abilities. An older brain (see above) will start to loose it's flexibility. Also, it may have something to do with how people loose alot of the potential to believe in the unbelievable as they grow up - otaku who grow old may also loose part of that imagination which kept them flexible in the matrix. Since there ARE adult otaku who doesn't fade, it is obvious that this isn't written in stone. However, at present there seem to be only three types of otaku:
1) AI created otaku children like the Banded, who are only otaku in the system controlled by 'their' AI, who presumably fade when they grow older.
2) Deep Resonance created otaku children, who fade as they grow older.
3) AI created adult otaku who do not fade, but who were created as otaku as adults.
Of course, then we can discuss if the Deep Resonance is a magical entity(an 'avatar' awakening potentials in them matrix) or an AI but I think we can all agree that AIs are probably not magical beings, spirits or avatars, so it follows by logic that otaku probably aren't either.

I always assumed the fading was tied to SOTA... as the otaku aged their brains lost the ability to keep up with the constant software/hardware upgrades on the matrix. What I liked about this explaination is it gave otaku ways to try to get around fading:

1. Play on private systems running increasingly archaic software.
2. Plot to control software/OS upgrades to the matrix to ensure more "otaku friendly" upgrades where done. Possible wars between young otaku that want the next upgrade because it would help them vs the old otaku that don't want it because its too big a change for them to adapt to.
3. Invent either pseudo-cyberdecks or custom forms that acted as reality filters of sort... to translate the current matrix protocols into the "older versions" the otaku could understand.

Back on topic... what is preventing an otaku from becomming a kickass rigger? Even if he ran it from matrix mode in captain's chair he would still be pretty good. Especially if you gave him a fleet of robot drones and allowed him to replace the pilot software with sprites (yeah, major twisting of rules here).

I really don't see an otaku as a face. Yeah, the numbers work in this direction, but all the background for otaku emphasises how socially inept they are... to actually become an effective face would be a pretty big leap for them.

Pel.

There's a pretty strong argument that Otaku ability is magically connected, namely that Otaku cannot become Mages, Shamans, Adepts, or aspected versions of any of these.

There is no other group that cannot become these with one exception: those who already are. For instance, the only people who cannot be Shamans are the Adepts and Mages. The Otaku, therefore, fit in with already having a tradition and hence being unable to have another.

~J

there's also the point that one of the most basic pieces of information you acquire when astrally assensing someone is whether or not they're Awakened. otaku don't register to astral senses as being magically-active.

to address the actual topic, i like playing with the Remote Control complex form and making the otaku into a psuedo-rigger. Intelligence-linked weapon skills are also nice. dumping karma into your Quickness will raise your Combat Pool (Int and Wil should already be way above-average). otaku also stand a better-than-average chance against mages, with their high Wil and Int scores--use that to your tactical advantage.

Bah.

IC they cast spells, summon spirits, are split between hermetics and shamans, and perform wonders that mundanes can't without technological assistance... all by nothing but sheer will alone. They also have a tendency to gather into magical groups and like to initiate to improve their magical powers and gain access to metamagic techniques. Their shamans hear the voice of their totemic god, and their hermetics see their powers from a more analytical aspect.

I've looked through the Otaku chapter in Matrix. Neither it nor the old VR 2.0 or VR 2.01D say anything about auras. I'm going on something that either a GM or he himself came up with. Sounds interesting stylistically, but it has no basis in the books.

Don

Oh good lord.

Okay, I got it backwards in my head. It's when people say that only 1% of the 1% are fully awakened that MitS corrects. My mistake. Sorry.

I do know that otaku have strange auras in the Matrix, though. As soon as I get my books I'll provide a page reference.

IIRC there's some odd things in the aura of whatever Ronin was called before he became Ronin.

~J

I do know it was mentioned in a novel somewhere. And while I still don't have my books available, I did find this on the newsgroup. Take it however you like, but while it isn't canon, the novels (sadly) are, and this blurb is obviously in reference to it because its exactly how I remember it being described. I'm only going to quote the relevant parts.

Author: Tzeentch
Subject: Optional Otaku Revisions
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2002

The following is a slightly revised version of the Otaku rules I developed for my The Matrix submission. It was not part of my final submission so I've changed the rules to follow existing SR3/VR2 mechanics as much as possible. Comments are of course welcome. Text in brackets [] denotes text changed from the original manuscript.

RESONANCE AURA
An otakus aura will radically shift once they enter the Matrix with their Living Persona. Anyone assenssing an otaku as he interfaces will notice that the otaku's aura dims, then seems to sparkle with strange lights. Anyone familiar with otaku will immediately recognize it. The otaku cannot masked or hide this efffect on their aura - even if they are aware of it.

Technobabel, that was the book.

Side note: for a pretty good book, that had the worst cover teaser I can remember seeing.

~J

Correct me if I'm wrong but a major difference between Magically Active People and Otaku (other then Matrix vs Astral) is that people are *born* either magically active or not. Otaku are introduced via the Deep Resonance, Disonance, or an AI. That at least is my recollection. No one is born an Otaku, but rather they gain it through a matrix related experience.


I can't seem to find my copy of the Matrix or SRComp but don't otaku also need a second piece of cyberware other then the datajack to interface with the matrix, thus making them technologically assisted.


While I agree the mechanics dealing with Otaku are fairly similar to those dealing with the magically active they miss several key aspects. Drain is just one. MPCP being based on mental stats rather then essence is another. Inability to interact with the astral being a third. I can definitely see the arguement being made that the Matrix is their astral plane, although the fact it's a technological invention rather then a living bioforce creation certainly brings an arguement worthy. Sprites aren't the cousin to Elementals/Spirits. They cost Karma to create. An Ally Spirit would be a far closer comparison if one were to be made.

Polaris? Hardly.

As far as the bathroom comment goes, that was in response to BitBasher's comment about "and can you prove normal people don't have weird auras when they're decking."

I also couldn't care less if my ideas were canonical or not, nor do I particularly care for Tzeentch's style. However, considering he was one of the primary writer's for the otaku rules in 3rd Edition, I imagine his thoughts on the process hold a bit more sway than most since he (hopefully) researched the topic significantly before writing about it. Especially when those thoughts come directly from an actual canonical source.

@Link

Yes they are. pg 136 The Matrix.

Well Misfit Toy, you did make a claim that Mundane Aura's would not in fact change, while Otaku Aura's do change. Further, you made that claim without any textual referance to back it up.

Very well. Everytime you post a single message on this board in the future, I expect a page reference for each and every comment you make.

Oh, I certainly will when trying to rules lawyer something with another poster. Have no fear on that, if I am going to disagree with someone offhand, I'm at least going to post a page referance before calling them an intellectual jackass.

You failed to reference each and every post you were referring to in your last comment. Please do so before continuing, because I am wholly unable to accept anything you have to say unless you hold my hand while doing so. Thank you.

Actually it gives the Otaku 2 extra attribute points to each mental stat. This is the same as an elf gaining 2 extra charisma points for being an elf, thus allowing them to hit 8 Charisma at character creation.

It then goes to say this raises their racial modified limit per the standard rules. (Racial Modified Limit x 1.5)

If you read the text you're not violating any pre-existing character development rules.


Otaku Example Alpha:

21 Attribute Points:

1 Str
1 Qui
1 Bod
6 Int
6 Will
6 Cha

Then you apply the 2 extra Attribute Points for being Otaku and putting all physical stats to 1. This gives you a further bonus of raising your Racial Limit to 8 for each Mental Stat.

1 Str
1 Qui
1 Bod
8 Int
8 Will
8 Cha



It is at least my belief and that of others to my knowledge that the Otaku bonus points are treated as Racial Bonus points in a fashion.

Bleh sorry, mental bungle by me. Multi-Tasking to many message boards plus my FF League at the same time.


Sorry, I do interpret it the way you mention (2 points to distribute between the 3 stats) not the way I erroniously mentioned.