It's a total of +3 Attributes, while Trolls get (IIRC) +4 or +5. I don't think that's the correct interpretation, but it's not completely out of line.

~J

While intuitively, I tend to go with Doc's view-- otaku are just another branch of magic--there are a couple of oddities. Namely, AI-created otaku.

IMO, AI-created otaku toss all the pre-existing rules out the window. According to the draft as written by Demonseed Elite, AI-created otaku do not Fade-- he wanted it as a "pact with the devil" sort of deal for aging otaku. In theory, an already-Awakened person could survive being turned into an otaku, with their magical abilites intact. (Since the entire AI-conversion process is, by canon, totally dependant on GM fiat, it could work that way.)

jesus, troy, quit being a baby. you're putting forth a hypothesis that no one else agrees with, so it's your place to prove it, not ours to disprove it. show a page ref for otaku auras or shut it. if anyone else put forth a statement like that with no reference, you'd rip them apart--have the intellectual integrity to apply the same standards to yourself. you're usually pretty good at that--did somebody piss in your coffee this morning, or what?

it's also worth pointing out that Jason Levine/Demonseed Elite did not care for the magical otaku idea, nor did Dave Hyatt (author of RA: Shutdown).

Technobabel. Want a page reference? As soon as I can dig the book out, I'll give it to you.

~J

that would be swell. it would allow us to argue sensibly, instead of comparing aura changes to unimportant (game-wise) bodily functions.

two points, to preemptively refute the Technobabel reference. first, does it state in clear terms that the otaku being assensed appeared to be Awakened? because auras reflect more than that--brain functions that no other human possesses could explain aura oddities as easily as being Awakened could. second, does it say anything about otaku's auras in any sourcebook, anywhere? because it seems like a very long stretch if you're pulling game mechanics out of the novels, especially since SR's novel line is famous for completely ignoring the mechanics of the game.

i should note here that i'm not arguing that otaku definitely are not magical--i'm just pointing out that it's not as clear-cut as some people say it is. otaku are not definitely magical, and they're not definitely non-magical. if anything, they're definitely an enigma, and i think that is what the designers had in mind.

While I find it easiest to think of them as magical, I understand that many people do not. The best argument I've heard is that AI's can turn just about everyone else into otaku, *except* for mages/awakened individuals. Thus, otakuhood and magic are somehow mutually exclusive to one another; and the only reason why that can happen is more magic.

So, does anyone have their books handy? If so, could someone please pull out YotC, and see if an otaku can undergo SURGE to gain astral perception or become dual-natured?

I'm not saying it's clear-cut, not by far. I'm saying that there's a significant amount of evidence that could support that conclusion.

Now, off to dig for that book.

~J

Not what I was looking for, but possibly what I was remembering (I've still got half the book to go, so we may yet have aural strangeness in store), on page 142:

Page 186:

So based on that, i could be simaliar to someone not knowing about shapeshifters and seing their aura for the first time.....

[EDIT] ie. I don't know what it is or could be sense, and thus anything[/EDIT]

Yep. It keeps the IC possibility open, though. The main evidence I see is the OOC mechanics of the lack of overlap between magic and the Otaku.

~J

Just i side note: I'm firmly in the "Not another form of awakened character" Camp, if it did become canon then it would be one of the few things i would disregard.

...or... not knowing an otaku an seeing their aura for the first time.

My personal view is that the Otaku aren't another form of magic, but in fact another race, as suggested by their placement in the build point chart, but that's another story.

~J

Then do you explain the fact than an AI can make anyone into an otaku with nothing more then them jacked into the matrix?

You mean like a kind of metavariant? I don't think that really works. I don't have the Matrix sourcebook, but I believe that the Fading just leaves them normal for their race. If I'm wrong, correct me here. To me, the exclude the separate race theory. That remind me, can metavariants be Otaku? I think they can, but I'm not certain.

Myself, I'm leaning towards the theory that they are magical. However, I suspect that this will never be made canon, and that it will be left to the will of the GM whether or not Otaku are magicians.

Yes they can be Meta Varients and get infected as well.

That's the only way I can see to rationalize a kid being able to get somewhere in the vicinity of 8+ in all mental stats before augmentation. Seriously, I'm decently intelligent and I have difficulty roleplaying a character that smart

~J

I dont disagree at all with the logic involved, but I wouldn't call them a race. A race implies things beyond this. I just think they're a metahuman whose mental operation falls within a certain set of limitations that lends them to the process they undergo sucessfully.

Fundamentally I agree with you, just not in the semantics.

Otaku are based on autistics and autistics lose their incredible abilities of abstraction as they become more socialized, there are many real life cases of this. Often their unique abilities are most evident in childhood.
(see also chapter 23 of the Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat by Oliver Sacks)


Otaku Face: It's insane and to even suggest it means you take Role-Playing to be not much more than a numbers game (or you have a completely different conception of otaku). If you've ever had the oportunity to talk to a person with autism you'd find that they would stand out in ackwardness even in a star trek convention.

if you can't deal with the age 21 limit that's too bad, maybe you shouldn't play an Otaku. in my opinion all good cyberpunk characters aren't out to live forever, "the flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long" as Mr. Tyrell pointed out.

If you want a more versatile otaku then have the character relate things back to their own introverted world. firearms training as a first person shooter, driving games etc. besides that there's still plenty of B/R skills that they can help the team out with.

...except that otaku aren't autistic, and have never been portrayed as such. there are some similarities, yes, but no more than there are between otaku and mages. it's insane to suggest that the only explanation for their abilities is autism, and to even suggest it means you haven't paid enough attention to the material.

the SR portrayal of otaku is consistent with all the characteristics of autism. it's a great working model, based on or inspired by doesn't mean it's the same thing. otaku and autistics are not the same thing. but if you want to know what a good characterization of otaku is, i'd point to autistics just about every time and much more so than i would compare them to magic-users. sorry if that was confusing.

Lets not oversimplify gentlemen. Otaku and Autistics are VERY different. The vast majority of autistics are completely incapable of normal human interactions, their brains are singulary focused to the exclusion of all else. Only costly medication and therapy can ever hope to allow them to lead a "normal" life.....Their brains simply function differently than ours. While "regular" people might find certain higher brain and mathmatical functions completely alien, most autistics feel the same way when it comes to compartivly simple concepts that are outside their "sphere". This is a simplistic definition and open to a variety of criticism but I believe it's esentially accurate. Otaku on the other hand are much different. They are not only capable of normal social interaction but most excel at it. Also, Otaku are capable of thinking outside their "sphere" of mental focus. I would regard Otaku more as "savants en general" than anything related to autism.

Also, I was under the impression that Deus didn't "create" Otaku. I thought he found and awakened them. This distinction is important because it might help us determine why his Otaku can only functon inside the SCIRE. Are they physically incapable?, or Has Deus tained them to be unable to function outside?

that was an intentional limitation on Deus' part. Ronin was his first otaku, and he functions just fine outside the SCIRE, as does the Network.

Moon-Hawk: Isn't all religion brainwashing?

In other news, you do bring up a point I intentionally omited during my first post. If Deus could create Otaku without limitations, Why wouldn't he? There is no obvious reason to limit them.

1. His conditioning is highly effective. Only two Otaku I know of have broken it, Babel and Sebastian One of whom, Sebastian, never went through the full conditioning process. i.e.: Banded ceremony

2. If Deus created Otaku that were able to operate outside the SCIRE they would have been useful for getting agents outside the Arc. Any sort of backgroud check would make "Regular" Otaku stick out like a sore thumb.

Although there are only two points, it sums my point. There is no reason not to create versatile Otaku.....and many reasons to create them. Unless I'm missing some obvious point, logic dictates that the reason Deus didn't create "regular" Otaku was because he couldn't.

It was my understanding that at the start he couldn't trust "people" (Just look what Ankei did) and only created limited Otaku at the start to "play safe" since even Dues might not of been sure how good his conditioning is (more so since one of his first, turned against him) only later on did he start to "trust" his Otaku and create some that were more flexable.

Offcause this is all just my opinion

Who says otaku know anything about human interaction? Charisma 8 doesn't mean much.

It's not like physical beauty, or how nice you smile at people, or just that cool vibe that you put out that gives you that Charisma 8. For Otaku Charisma doesn't equate to 8 Charisma elf Fixer.

Charisma 8 for a Fixer =
Smooth character, Cool factor, sweet talking, a very good smell, personality, beauty, that jen ne se qua (french spelling is not my forte)
(You can be a butt ugly fixer, yet have a way of talking to people that puts them on good terms with you, or just are really likable, even though your face could curdle milk)

Charisma 8 for a Shaman =
Incredibly strong force of personality. Affinity with spirits. To a lesser extent beauty, or coolness factor.
(Remember you can be a crotchety ugly mean bastard to anyone and everyone alive, but still have an 8 charisma for dealing with spirits)

Charisma 8 for an Otaku =
???? A bunch of matrix stuff.
Doesn't mean anything about how cool, pretty, or strong their real world personality is. Or how well they can deal with spirits.

Most people would find the childness of them to either be endearing, or annoying enough to shoot them in the face.

Their charisma isn't ment to be a global stat it's ment for matrix stuff.
Otherwise they're more effective at fighting spirits than most mages/shamans/adepts are. Will of 8 means 8 dice to attack tn 4. with charisma 8 M damage. Most normal mages shamans and adepts have less dice to throw.



Then again I'm just biased against Otaku in general.
I hate the idea of a super decker walking around with only a datajack as his only bit of cyberware and a compact fold up sat-uplink in his pocket. You can't procecute them under the law, as they don't have illegal programs, or cyberdecks. They can walk into any corp building semi-legally and not worry about MADs or being searched.

um, right. the Charisma stat has absolutely nothing to do with human interaction. i'm going to let the hilarity of that statement stand on its own, i think.