There are two types of Illusions, Direct and Indirect. Direct Illusions are cast on a target which they directly affect. Indirect Illusions are cast on a subject person or area. The target of Indirect Illusions is the observer of the spell, not the subject. This is stated in MitS. And it is also a very old argument.

Re-reading the rules, I'd say that Cold-Dragon is right about Invisibility. Being an indirect illusion, (Improved) Invisibility does not actually target anything, thus the static "Target" number. In fact, Indirect Illusions work by actually "creating" the image (or, in this case, the non-image) for people to see. This differs from a Directed Illusion like, say, Chaotic World, which is actually cast on a target (or several targets). Both are resisted because they are magical effects, but the OR doesn't apply to Indirect Illusions because you're not actually doing anything to it. If this weren't so then there would be no mechanical difference at all between Direct and Indirect Illusions.

The real problem here is that SR is very inconsistent about the wording it uses. "Affect", "Target", "Subject," and "cast on" are all used interchangably in the actual rules and the flavor text, which makes it hard to dicipher what each actually means.

(Edit): Oi. Maybe I'm just tired today. I'm sure I've seen this explained before. Ah well. nevermind. I concede.

OR affecting the level required, I can see that.

Elemental manipulation doesn't count, as it specifically deals with OR.

Grrr MiTS though, it'd be useful if someone had mentioned it much earlier, save me some arguements.....

So the OR applies, woot. *sarcasm*

{edit}

Erk! Now I get a reply that says I might be right too! Darn those vague things, lol

No, no, I'm just an idiot. The flavor text doesn't match up with the actual rules; they're right; we're wrong. That's pretty much the short of it.

*awwws, and snaps* I guess I'll just ahve someone materialize everywhere and drive the camera's mad, hehe.

speaking of which, don't suppose anyone could enlighten a suggestion about whether you roll drain for the ability at the end of a turn or at the beginning? (it's that MiTS miscellany thing that's on another post of mine).

It is a common "interpretation" not to use the OR at all with Indirect Illusions. Most GMs you meet will likely disregard the wording.

Actually there is a definitive answer, and funk is right. Literally the illusion you create is the subject of the spell, and all the people and things that see the illusion are the targets. Most all indirect spells work that way, it's in the book. Also, as posted above, a spell cannot affect something unless the force of the spell is equal to or greater than half thg OR. Now since the target of the spell is the camera since the camera is viewing the illusion, then.... it wont work unless the force is high enough.

EDIT: a little late with that reply.

BitBasher, you're talking about Manifestation. Cold-Dragon is talking about a non-canon Materialization technique for magicians.

Cold-Dragon, if you're asking for suggestions for the drain on that ability, make it at the end, similar to when a spirit stops possessing someone. Please continue any further discussion of that power in your Original Thread.

What about living targets looking at the Improved Invisibility, what's the min level to affect them?

1.

~J