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Dave
This project started as a simple paper-based format many months ago and as it grew I found it easier to maintain in electronic format. Eventually I put together my own site and it made sense to convert all the Word documents into HTML and voila, the SSC <2060> was born.

One thing that I will be adding over the next couple of weeks is more Shadowtalk but if any of you have ideas let me know.

I would really like some feedback, both good and bad, and hope this will be something that both players and GMs can use to enhance their own games.

Just a couple of points before we get started:
- I didn't use the Firearm Creation rules in the 'Cannon Companion', just some common sense.
- I freely used artistic licence when coming up with the stats and description in order to make everything balanced.
- Thanks to my players; Skulker, Aegis and Jackhammer, who provided some of the images and descriptions.

Enjoy...

Street Samurai Catalogue <2060 Edition>
Austere Emancipator
All the links on the left side, apart from Latest News, just show javascript:void(0) and do nothing if clicked (as expected), at least on my Mozilla 1.6b.
Dave
The links on the right are rollover menus, if clicked they do nothing (hence the Javascript Void) well expect for the 'Latest News' link.

I must admit I didn't test the site with anything other that Netscape and IE, apologies for that. I'll look into making the site compatible with more browsers.

Thanks for letting me know.
BIG BAD BEESTE
Hmmm, not a bad site at all. Haven't had time to totally look through and evaluate all of the data, but the layout is clean, very readable and easy to navigate. Speaking of which, is there any way to "slideshow" the entries - IE: flick from one item to another without having to go back to the dropdown meun each time?

However, its nice to see the old SSC style again. Pictures and diagrams of all the guns & stuff - great! Missed for too long. I do note that many of them are "real life" images and several have already been used for the original SR soucebooks Street Samurai Catalogue & Fields of Fire. Plus there's one or two I recognise from certain films... smile.gif

Now, where's the hand-to-hand comabt stuff? Dikoted Bat'leths and electric-powered combat chainsaws anyone?
Dave
At the moment it is totally menu-driven but I can't see why '< Prev' and 'Next >' links couldn't be added at a later stage.

Hand-to-hand weaponry and armour will be making an appearance sometime in the near future.
D.Generate
Very nicely done. But I have to agree a <prev> <next> option would be nice. I'm also glad that you went realistic with the weapons, too many site I've found that have pistols with damage codes high enough to drop a troll in one round, and sniper rifles that are the equivilent of the death star planet killing laser cannon. The comentary is also nice very old school which I do admit I miss from the new books. I also miss that nice clean Catalogue layout in the new books where each item had its own page and was easy to find when needed.

So bravo my good man, a job well done.
FXcalibur
Incredible job. I'd love to use these in my future games.

EDIT: Interesting CS homages you have there. I like what you've done stat-wise with the 5-7, though.

I've seen many iterations of that Ruger M41 design, but this is the first one in 3-D. Did you model it yourself? If so, very cool.
The Question Man
Looks great, thanks.
Arethusa
That picture of the M41's just a plastic replica, and, honestly, not a very good looking one.

Also, I'll get back with some more decent comments at some point, but about the Five-seveN: this is not the joke that the Five-seveN C is in the books, but it still weighs in as inferior to basically every single heavy pistol because it, at best, penetrates requally, and more often, does a worse job of it. Kind of counter intuitive, even if I am no huge fan of PDWs.
Dave
Thanks for the feedback so far, just to address a few points.

I found that picture of the M41A and, to be honest, it was the best of a bad bunch. At the time it seemed like a decent enough image but it is probably time to try and find a more 'realistic' one.

I have deliberately toned down the power of the 5-7 for two reasons, I felt that as a standard, out-the-box, armour-piercing weapon with such a large magazine capacity making it 9M would make it too powerful.

And to those of you who want to use it in their games...go for it.

Keep them coming.
Arethusa
I have no doubt that a 9M armor piercing pistol would be too much, but if realism's your intent here, 9M is, entirely separate from game balance, a ludicrous damage code for a PDW. Personally, I hold with the 9-10L school of through.
Marynsar
Mozilla Firefox here, no links functionning. I assume you used IE standard Javascript code, and I suggest you look into the function "GetElementById()" to make it compatible with more browsers.

I can only comment on the first page by saying the layout is very clean and efficient and really makes me want to see what's inside (not to the point of using IE though biggrin.gif )
Azrael
Excellent job.

The only addition I can think of is a summary table like what is at the back of the original SSC for quick reference.
Diesel
You and Raygun ought compare notes, you've a lot of crossover.
Dave
QUOTE

Mozilla Firefox here, no links functionning. I assume you used IE standard Javascript code, and I suggest you look into the function "GetElementById()" to make it compatible with more browsers.

So it would seem this is becoming a significant a problem, unforutunately I didn't write the menu code (it was, er, borrowed from elsewhere) so it may take me a while to sort the menus out.

But...

QUOTE

The only addition I can think of is a summary table like what is at the back of the original SSC for quick reference.

This should offer a suitable workaround for those who can't use the menus, nice one Azreal.
Dave
OK I have uploaded a 'SSC Gear Listing' page, which is a simple list of hyperlinks and a quick way of geting to any page without having to use the menus.

I have not had time to add the 'SSC Gear Listing' link to every page so for the time being it is only available from the 'Latest News' page, apologies for the extra clicking invovled.
Cpt_Haddock
Okay, I have just given it a quick look, and so far I must say that this is (together with Raygun's site) the best website I've seen about additional SR gear.
Kudos, man.
Connor
I'm looking forward to seeing those menus working, but I did notice the Sony Ericsson themes. Very cool! I'm using the SR3 one currently. smile.gif
Raygun
The picture you have on your "Ruger Thunderbolt Mk.II" page was lifted from my site, as was the flavor text mentioning Metalstorm operation. I made the picture myself by modifying one of a currently manufactured Ruger pistol.

I would appreciate it very much if you'd link to my site on the pages that you borrowed info or used pictures from. Otherwise, you're pretty much stealing from me.

A few corrections:

The picture you have of the M16A4 is actually an M16A1 with an M203 grenade launcher attached. The picture is also reversed, as the ejection port is on the wrong side of the rifle. The flavor text is also incorrect. Even though Colt's own website says it is, the M16A4 is in fact not the fourth generation of the M16 line. It's actually the third model of the third generation of M16 to be type-classified by the US military.

Gen 1 = M16
Gen 2 = M16A1, XM177 "Commando"
Gen 3 = M16A2, A3, A4
Gen 4 = M4, A1, M4 "Commando"

The assertion that the M4 is the only assault rifle that can be suppressed is also incorrect. The vast majority of assault rifles manufactured today can be suppressed. Most made since about 1995 are designed to accomodate it.

The "Ruger M41A Pulse Rifle" would not use the same electronic operation as the Thunderbolt, as the M41A is magazine-fed and the Thunderbolt (in my estimation and consequently through your own flavor text) uses the Metalstorm concept wherein ammunition is stored in stacks directly in the barrel. It appears that you have some flavor text about the M41A that comes from the Aliens Colonial Marines Technical Manual. That book has a very detailed explanation of how the rifle supposedly works. I don't see any need to change that info.

Otherwise, everything that I've seen so far looks okay.
Kagetenshi
To add to the bug reports, neither Safari 1.2.3 nor FireFox 0.9.3 get the popup menus. I'll test with Opera a bit later.

Needless to say, the side links are also broken in Lynx.

~J
Kurukami
Nice site, and I agree that you and Raygun might want to collaborate in the future. Of course, both of your sites are already quite good already... biggrin.gif

One small thing, though, and this has nothing to do with site design or the like -- looking at the page for the Steyr Scout sniper rifle, why on earth would you ever need a bipod giving -2 to recoil on a semiautomatic gun? (I'm guessing that it's something that's on the actual gun, which would make sense from a sniping standpoint, but the recoil benefit seems... useless.)

As a tangent, perhaps bipods could be useful for something other than recoil reduction. Add in an additional -1 bonus to the aiming bonus, perhaps? Thus, one action spent aiming would give you a -2 TN, two would give you a -3, etc., to reflect the greater stability given by the bipod?

(Says the guy whose only direct experience with rifle shooting was with the Boy Scouts long ago...) biggrin.gif

Anyways, other than a desire that the site actually worked with Mozilla, quite well done.
Austere Emancipator
QUOTE (Kurukami)
(I'm guessing that it's something that's on the actual gun, which would make sense from a sniping standpoint, but the recoil benefit seems... useless.)

That's one thing you've got to wrestle with when doing real (or even realistic) weapons for SR (or any RPG system). Bipods do stand out in SR, because the only in-game benefit is the RC. I suppose you could just add "Bipod" into the weapon entry and not mention the RC benefit because it doesn't matter with the particular weapon, but that still seems somehow wrong.

The -1 additional aimint TN bonus is a good idea. I personally just give -1 TN whenever firing from a well supported position. And yes, the real Steyr Scout does have a bipod.
Luke Hardison
QUOTE (Austere Emancipator)
QUOTE (Kurukami)
(I'm guessing that it's something that's on the actual gun, which would make sense from a sniping standpoint, but the recoil benefit seems... useless.)

That's one thing you've got to wrestle with when doing real (or even realistic) weapons for SR (or any RPG system). Bipods do stand out in SR, because the only in-game benefit is the RC. I suppose you could just add "Bipod" into the weapon entry and not mention the RC benefit because it doesn't matter with the particular weapon, but that still seems somehow wrong.

The -1 additional aimint TN bonus is a good idea. I personally just give -1 TN whenever firing from a well supported position. And yes, the real Steyr Scout does have a bipod.

It is for that reason that, IMG, a bipod either:

1) subtracts its rating from the recoil total, just like other recoil compensation

OR

2) adds its rating in dice to the attack test, giving the user a more stable platform and therefore a higher virtual skill level

That ruling has worked out wonderfully for us. It's suddenly not all that uncommon to see a bipod on a sport or sniper rifle.
Arethusa
That's kind of odd. Why not just increase the number of actions allowed for taking aim?
Dave
QUOTE
Raygun
The picture you have on your "Ruger Thunderbolt Mk.II" page was lifted from my site, as was the flavor text mentioning Metalstorm operation. I made the picture myself by modifying one of a currently manufactured Ruger pistol.

Apologies for that Raygun, I have taken the page out of the Catalogue.

QUOTE
Raygun
The assertion that the M4 is the only assault rifle that can be suppressed is also incorrect. The vast majority of assault rifles manufactured today can be suppressed. Most made since about 1995 are designed to accomodate it.

My thought here is that even though I have used modern day rifles I used them in an in-character game resource set in 2060. I don't recall any assault rifles in the BBB or CC that can be suppressed so I feel the statement is valid.

It is an interesting point though and one I didn't really give much thought to.

QUOTE
Raygun
The picture you have of the M16A4 is actually an M16A1 with an M203 grenade launcher attached. The picture is also reversed, as the ejection port is on the wrong side of the rifle. The flavor text is also incorrect. Even though Colt's own website says it is, the M16A4 is in fact not the fourth generation of the M16 line. It's actually the third model of the third generation of M16 to be type-classified by the US military.

Thanks, I will make the necessary changes when I can.

QUOTE
Kurukami
One small thing, though, and this has nothing to do with site design or the like -- looking at the page for the Steyr Scout sniper rifle, why on earth would you ever need a bipod giving -2 to recoil on a semiautomatic gun? (I'm guessing that it's something that's on the actual gun, which would make sense from a sniping standpoint, but the recoil benefit seems... useless.)

Well in SR you get -2 recoil for using a bipod and the Scout comes with one, so I didn't feel the need to change it. I do like the idea of giving an extra -1 for a stable firing platform but that is more a house rule/game mechanic and falls outside the SSC.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Raygun @ Aug 15 2004, 01:09 PM)
I would appreciate it very much if you'd link to my site on the pages that you [borrowed info or] used pictures from. Otherwise, you're pretty much stealing from me.

Unless you, personally, took the photos of every image on your site (including the original image you modified in photoshop), or have the express written permission to use each and every one of those images -- or can supply a link for each and everyone of them pointing out that they're available to be used by the public domain -- you don't have much room to whine about that particular topic.
Dave
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
QUOTE (Raygun @ Aug 15 2004, 01:09 PM)
I would appreciate it very much if you'd link to my site on the pages that you [borrowed info or] used pictures from. Otherwise, you're pretty much stealing from me.

Unless you, personally, took the photos of every image on your site (including the original image you modified in photoshop), or have the express written permission to use each and every one of those images -- or can supply a link for each and everyone of them pointing out that they're available to be used by the public domain -- you don't have much room to whine about that particular topic.

To be fair to Raygun, if he's spent his time producing a particular weapon then I don't feel it's right for anyone to copy the same idea, at least not without getting express permission. In the above case, the Ruger Thunderbolt was created by him and (now) exists solely on his site (which I have just been browsing, very nice if a little too detailed, with a few too many new rules for my tastes).

And I have just uploaded a new, generic M16 page.
Arethusa
Funk, stop being an ass. Most of us manage this without much difficulty. I'm sure, with much difficulty, you can manage.

The images that Raygun created and the text he wrote are his intellectual property. While I doubt Dave intended to plagerise, that's basically what it works out as. Beyond that, copying sections of his site, even if the information there is taken from other sources, is just bad form. There is a sensible amount of due acknowledgement. And that's about enough of that.
Ol' Scratch
He's stolen just about every image on his website from others, and a large part of the descriptions of "his" weapons are stolen word-for-word from the web. If you're lucky, he at least attempted to change the model number on some occasions or threw in a Shadowrun buzzword or two. And despite whatever delusion he may be under, modifying an original image in photoshop does not make it "his" photo unless the original image was avaialble on the public domain or he was given explicit permission to use it in that fashion. The ratio of genuine original work on his site to stolen material is grossly skewed towards the stolen side.

If pointing out that blatant hypocrisy makes me an "ass," so be it.
Austere Emancipator
Photographs of real weapons are used all over without mentioning where they are from, because there's no real telling where they originally came from. They're often from the manufacturer's site, scanned from a book or a paper by someone a long, long time ago, or sometimes even taken (and scanned) by someone in a GunCon (or whatever you call those happenings) and posted in a now-deleted gun forum thread a few years back and since appeared on a gazillion RPG gun sites, SecurityArms, world.guns.ru and similar places.

However, if you cared to actually read what it says on the page you linked to, you would have noticed this: "Weapon description taken from the book "Modern Small Arms" by Ian Hogg." And that picture is indeed scanned from that book. How about that.
Ol' Scratch
1. It doesn't matter how widespread plagarism is. It's still plagarism, and whining when someone does to you exactly what you do to countless others is asinine.

2. Referencing where you stole your material from doesn't justify the theft. Unless all of the books he cited from gave permission for their content to be used in such a fashion, that's exactly what he's done. Fair use doesn't cover blatant theft. The same applies to photos.

3. Editing an original, copyrighted photo in Photoshop does not make it yours.

4. If he hadn't had said anything about it, I wouldn't have said anything either. It's the fact that he came here crying because someone stole his stolen content that set me off. Boo frelling hoo.
Zazen
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
1. It doesn't matter how widespread plagarism is. It's still plagarism, and whining when someone does to you exactly what you do to countless others is asinine.

2. Referencing where you stole your material from doesn't justify the theft.

It does, however, stop it from being plagiarism. nyahnyah.gif
Kagetenshi
The use of the photo may fall under Fair Use, but unless parodical, the alteration of it violates copyright.

Incidentally, that's why SotSW no longer has the nice logo with the stylized Shadowrun S on it frown.gif

~J
Austere Emancipator
Legally speaking, you may well be right. However, as can be witnessed from the responses, good manners generally override the law in these things.

[Edit]Nevermind, since someone could consider resizing "editing".[/Edit]
Ol' Scratch
You mean besides his comment of:

QUOTE (Rarygun)
I made the picture myself by modifying one of a currently manufactured Ruger pistol.
Austere Emancipator
Would you say any picture of a currently manufactured Ruger pistol is automatically © of Storm, Ruger & Co. Inc.?
Ol' Scratch
Nope. It's a copyright of whoever took the original photo, who has all the copy rights of that photo unless they released it to the public domain or otherwise gave permission to modify and distribute it. Considering the sheer volume of "borrowed" images on his site, I somehow doubt he took the photo himself. But if he did, good for him. That's one out of a hundred or so.
Raygun
Just when I thought you were changing your tune, I'm sad to say you're still a fucking dipshit, Funk.
Ol' Scratch
At least I'm not a "fucking dipshit" who whines when someone steals my stolen work.
Raygun
Aww, is someone still upset about being called a whiner? *sniffle* You're such a bitch's bitch, it's incredible.

Did I say I was going to sue anyone over it? No. Was I threatening any legal action at all? No. Why? A) Because as you so tactfully point out, I probably can't, and B) because it wouldn't matter enough for me to do so if I could.

On his site he asked where the picture came from. Obviously, Ruger doesn't make a Metalstorm-operated firearm called the Thunderbolt. The idea behind that was mine for which I'm sure you'll find several instances in discussion here in this very forum. The idea behind the editing of the picture was, as a matter of fact, mine. Anyone else who uses that information without my permission, in context of Shadowrun, is, as a matter of fact, stealing from me. Everyone else seems to be able to wrap their minds around that concept.

I do this shit for fun. Everyone here who looks at my website knows who came up with it. I don't even care if he does use it, honestly. All I want is a link if he does. I don't think that's too much to fucking ask, you dripping douche bag.
Ol' Scratch
You seem to be the one who's getting defensive, "you dripping douche bag," not me. But here, I'll make it simple by pulling a Raygun!

Dave, feel free to use MY copy of the Ruger Thunderbolt on your website all you like. I took an original image from somewhere, I can't quite remember where 'cause I'm so stupid, and used photoshop to make the barrel a few pixels longer, added a tint of color, and moved the logo around a few pixels. You don't have to link to the webpage or give me any credit whatsoever. It's totally cool because its MY picture. Yay!
Raygun
QUOTE
Apologies for that Raygun, I have taken the page out of the Catalogue.

No biggie. I'd just appreciate a link on that page if you do choose to keep it up. That's all.

QUOTE
My thought here is that even though I have used modern day rifles I used them in an in-character game resource set in 2060. I don't recall any assault rifles in the BBB or CC that can be suppressed so I feel the statement is valid.

Any assault rifle with an open barrel mount space can mount a sound suppressor according to canon rules.

That's also pretty much true in reality. If the barrel is threaded (very common on ARs) or has a special quick-detach mount (most AR suppressors are designed for them), they can mount a suppressor.

Surefire
Advanced Armament
Gemtech
Raygun
QUOTE (Doctor Fuckenstein)
You seem to be the one who's getting defensive, "you dripping douche bag," not me.

People tend to do that when other people are offending them. By being, you know, offensive. Which you most certainly are.

QUOTE
Dave, feel free to use MY copy of the Ruger Thunderbolt on your website all you like. I can't quite remember where 'cause I'm so stupid, and used photoshop to make the barrel a few pixels longer, added a tint of color, and moved the logo around a few pixels. You don't have to link to the webpage or give me any credit whatsoever. It's totally cool because its MY picture. Yay!

I don't think we need any more proof that you're a douche bag, Funk, but you're not hurting me any by continuing on with it.
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Raygun @ Aug 15 2004, 08:14 PM)
QUOTE (Doctor Fuckenstein)
You seem to be the one who's getting defensive, "you dripping douche bag," not me.

People tend to do that when other people are offending them. By being, you know, offensive. Which you most certainly are.

I'm sorry that pointing out your blantant hypocrisy is "offending" you. But I'm not the thief who's pouting because someone stole my "work." You are.
Zazen
QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein)
I'm sorry that pointing out your blantant hypocrisy is "offending" you.

That you came out of nowhere and called him a deluded whining crying thief is a more likely candidate.
Adam
I think the remainder of the cursing, douching, and finger-pointing can be conveyed via private messages. Thanks. wink.gif
xizor
at last someone with a fire extingisher wobble.gif
Ol' Scratch
QUOTE (Zazen)
That you came out of nowhere and called him a deluded whining crying thief is a more likely candidate.

The shoe fits.
Arethusa
No, the shoe does not fucking fit, you insufferable cad. I don't know how this bullshit makes sense in your kind of confused little head nor how it inexplicably passes your apparently astoundingly low standards of acceptable behavior, but you might want to take a hint fromt he fact that no one likes you and work from there.

[edit]

And as my answer to Adam's attempt at putting this one out, I can only say no. This shit has gone on for too long and far to the detriment of this community, and at this point, to remain silent and apathetic is to condone. I, for one, am getting rather sick of thisó and I barely spend much time here anymore as a result already.
Kickshot
You know, despite how argumentative Doc Funk is, he's never had to resort to flinging schoolyard insults to get his point across.

Just saying.
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