It's just easier. 123 kinda gets annyoing. I either use 120 or 130.

BTW: How do you get people to stop using ammesia as a easy flaw so they don't have to write backgrounds AND get points without killing it?

There's a really good online article about what munchkinism is and isn't:

http://www.geocities.com/poetess47/ooc14.html

Check it out; it's really interesting.

I tend to stick to 123 and 125. One thing I've noticed though, with the expanded rules in MJLBB for the modified Low and High power campaigns, the Phys ad gets shafted (in the high power) or unfairly compensated.
There is no provision for extra power points in the high power game, so they start with the same 6, while the street same gets built with the 2 million which allows for even more and cheaper essence cost cyber along with additional guns and bioware.
There is no way for an adept to reduce the price of their powers (though I'm kicking around an edge that has 3 levels, at 3 points per level. Level 1 gives the same discount on Adept powers as Alpha ware, Level 2 is beta and level 3 is delta. That's a 9 point Edge)

Munchkinism: Adj: Stupid player asshats who make ungodly characters so that he does everything so other people do nothing. But he only does it to get his next l33t p0\/\/3r.
At least that's mine.

Nikoli, there's a way to reduce cost for powers. You can effectively have 8 points of powers by geasing all of them (new power cost is 75% of original).

Why not let the Adept take 2mil and buy "spell points" which he can then use for Initiation?

Well, given that most of the games I've witnessed , very rarely does it last more than a few sessions, so there is no reward for making a character capable of growth through years of play. Personally, I'd like to have a campaign last for a year or two with regular weekly sessions, but that just isn't happening in my area (or even on the boards )

Because I never agreed with the spell point = initiation concept. spells, sure, foci, sure, but not initiation.

The reward is the knowledge that you arn't being a dick. And if you get into a lucky game that lasts more then one session, YAY!

I stick to 128 build points. 64 is too little and 256 is too much.

~J

EDIT: Somehow i got this post into the wrong thread.

I have seen many munchkins, but they always have their kryptonite. I don't mind min/maxing things in my game, as long as they roleplay their advantages correctly. Yes the troll with the massive strength that gets foot swept and a broken neck. Never underestimate the need for kip up or ground fighting. He thought he was invincible until I had to teach him a lesson.

I do not take down munchkins in their area of expertise (at least not deliberately). I take them down through their weaknesses. A maxed out troll munchkin is talked down by an NPC (see? you lost your opposed Etiquette roll and now you are working for free), a Face is shot (and can't stage down).

The scariest munchkins in my games are those that cover their asses or use game mechanics to help cover their weaknesses. They have weaknesses that are difficult to exploit like Liar combined with Braggart and Hung out to Dry. Or an Attribute of 3 (just so that you can't roll against a TN of 2), etc.

How is hung out to dry hard to do? He can't talk to anyone he knows.

Lying braggarts you just have them tell a few tall tales... then a corp thinks they are a huge threat because Jhonny Boy thought they were true... STRIKE TEAM!

Actually, by the book, the cop/corp WILL know it is a tall tale. Like, "So there I was minding my own business, then suddenly... Lowfyr!"

Since Liar requires you to "lie" to a Contact, having been Hung out to Dry is good, since there is nobody for you to "lie" to.

Hmm...

Damn... Didn't know that. I'm getting my BBB back in a week.

Umm... well, if he brags, then if he just ran a run aganst that corp... STRIKE TEAM!

Won't the corp notice that his story matches what happened to them, including the stuff not released to the press?

Besides, do you really think the CEO of the corp PERSONALY knows the character enough to know he is a liar? He'll just hear that a co-worker heard some fragger who knows everything about a job, and was bragging about how he did it.

That's not how the flaw works. The point of the flaw is that the character is somehow so sleazy that almost anything they say is treated as a lie unless corroborated by immediate and incontrovertible evidence, and even then they'll probably be regarded with suspicion.

It doesn't matter if the character never tells a lie.

~J

You're right, it might get his arse nailed if anyone actually repeats the pack of lies. You were still incorrect in your interpretation of how the flaw worked.

~J

True, but its about all I can think of to do to nail the Braggart/Liar combo.

I suppose you COULD say that you can't take both, sciting that being a braggart means that you auto take that flaw, thus removing a few flaw points...

But then being a braggart wouldn't mean shit...

Ok, I'm going to look through the flaws/edges list and find some of the INCREDABLY cheap combos.

Ok, the obvious ones are simple, Street Sammies taking one arm, Infims for Riggers, ETC...

Stupid comboes, would be Grimlins with Computer Illetrate, Corp Sellout isn't even much of a damn flaw, Poverty and anything, because who needs starting money, when you can buy a bunch of shit you won't use at character creation, just to sell it. SURGE pointed ears and Elf Poser, and some more that won't pop up so easily.

Heh, Gremlins with Computer Illiterate is just asking for a Temple of Doom scenario.

Team: Help! We're trapped in a locked room, and nerve gas is being pumped in through the ventalation shafts! Open the door, quick!
Sam: Um, ok. I hit the "Open" button on the console.
GM: You've got Computer Illiteracy. Roll Computer skill, TN 6 to figure out which button will open the door.
Sam: Ack, I don't have Computers! I'll have to default to my Int of 2! (*rolls*) Whew, lucky me, I got an 10!
GM: (*rolls some dice*) Oops, looks like Gremlins kicked in. That TN just jumped up two points. Sorry.
Team $%&#@!

AHAH! I just thought of something! You know how most SSes use CHA as a dumpstat? Well, if CHA includes self confiidence....

Player: Ok, I now attempt to set the price for the run to 100,000:nuyen:
GM: Sorry, but you just don't think you can do that... What if you fail? He'll think you're a dick, and won't give you squat and cancel the run... You decide to go for 100:nuyen: instead...
Player1: YOU F*****!

You could use this in any situation, disarming bombs, competing aganst a different SR team.

Player: Ok, I'm going to try to get to him before they do!
GM: No, sorry, but that would be too hard for you! You decide to just give up before you fail!
Player: QUIT DOING THIS F****** BULL**** YOU F*****!

For Flaws used for min-maxing, some examples would be sensitive neural structure (-4) and simsense vertigo for a shaman who doesn't use high tech, paraplegic for a decker or rigger who spends all of their time decking or rigging, incompetence in a 1-point skill that the character never uses, a severe allergy or phobia to something very rare/unlikely to be encountered, bad karma or borrowed time in a one-session pickup game or campaign with high mortality/character turnover, and there are some munchkins who can take impulsive, oblivious, uncouth, distinctive style, vindictive, combat monster, and bad reputation (-4) - and it's just getting points for how they play their characters anyways. On the flip side, there are people who take the pacifist (-2) Flaw and interpret it as "Well, the guards fired at me first when we drove that hijacked Citymaster through the front gate" or "I'm only knocking them out. The other players are the ones coming in after me and slitting their throats." The key to munchkin thinking is to gain points from "Flaws" that actually give little or no actual in-game disavantage - they are like free build points.


For Edges, bonus Attribute point to get a stat one point past the normal starting maximum - this is pretty common, not just by munchkins, but munchkins will definitely use it. They will also try to stack it with the exceptional attribute Edge to get +2 to a starting Attribute (which doesn't stand up to a careful reading of the rules). 6 or 8-point ambidexterity for melee specialists, because the advantage in extra dice is incredible. Focused concentration makes spellslingers much more effective, while sammies with fractional Essense often take magic resistance: 4, reasoning that if they are virtually impossible to use healing spells on, they might as well protect themselves against hostile magic. Toughness is a good one for munchkins, since it stacks with bonus attribute point. Human-looking is good for munchkins who want elf, dwarf, or ork stat bonuses but don't want to deal with racism. Faces often load up on friendly face, good-looking and knows it, and good reputation: 2. Although the text discourages this, munchkins will try to take aptitude for combat or magical skills. Although they can provides substantial in-game benefits, Edges are generally not too unbalancing unless the munchkin is able to offset them with meaningless Flaws.

@Wutasumi:

Why do you think BeCKs is a munchkin system? I studied maths and it hurts me to take Pistols 4 and Stealth 4 instead of Pistols 6 Stealth 2 (or Pistols 2 and Stealth 6) because i always want to improve both skills. With becks its easier for me to buy more skills at normal values. I thnik those all-skill-6 starting chars are unrealistic.

I would not allow to use the Building Karma for initiation! Just spell points, maybe binding a focus.

Hmmm troll, all cyber limbs, torso and skull with gell packs (hardened armour?) to the max. Throw in the usual damage soakers as discussed above and anything short of naval weapons have a habit of bouncing off his nakid form....

With no copy of MM I cant show the maths though.

Here's a new one that a friend used for his character - it's not legal with a *starting* character, but you can get it pretty easily.

Shaman. Give the shaman a trauma dampener, so that light stun doesn't do anything. Make his totem Hummingbird or whatever that gives +2 charisma for conjuring. Make him an elf, for another +2 charisma (the friend didn't make him an elf, but it makes logical sense if you wanna get TRULY retarded...)

So we got a guy with 10 charisma, yeah? Then you initate twice. Get Invoking, and Channeling. Get yourself a spirit focus at as high a force as you can.

Summon high-power spirit. Blow to great form. Channel. Light drain doesn't affect you, so it's easier to just truck around blowing the unholy crap out of people, and being WHOLLY UNAFFECTED by (most) mundane weapons.

And apparently with no copy of CC onhand you can't read the line:

Which is why Im probably wrong somewhere along the line.

The idea did come from someone with all the books and alot of knowledge of the game, so is there an equivilant that does the same?

It's not expressly forbidden, it's just not listed. One could even argue that "and even hardened armor" includes vehicles since "hardened armor" is not expressly restricted to "hardened military grade armor."

If you can successfully argue that cyberarmor is a form of form-fitting, diving, or security armor, then I'd let you add the mods. However, unlike many rules, that section does provide a detailed list (as of the printing of the book) followed by an explicitly forbidden category. The exact bit on gel packs tosses in even more restrictions. With all that, gel-packing a cyberlimb doesn't seem like a success, but the actual rules are whatever the GM and players agree to, so if may work in your game.

If someone could have go at making this character (well the above bits) we could see. Please

Fortunately, it is implied as possible through astral quests. However, that may not actually affect the past, but it might make you think you had a chance to change things.