Which is why you take them as vision mods and don't lose a thing.

I was more referring to:

Yeah, I'm not quite sure how one would go about combining Eye Lights with natural Low Light vision, since Eye Lights cannot be installed in natural eyes, IIRC.

Feel free to read over Improved Sense and point out where it states that it's incompatible with cyberware. Ditto for the cyberware. It's a magical improvement of your senses, not necessarily a magical improvement of your sensory organs though, as with most adept powers, it can be explained as such.

That's a bit of a stretch. Canon states that a person replacing their eyes loses all his natural vision augmentations, and an Adept's visual Powers are described as being natural.

Interesting munch though, if it does work as you say.

That's your interpretation, but that doesn't necessarily make it canon.

According to canon, Eye lights cannot be installed in natural eyes. A troll who installs cybereyes loses his natural Thermographic Vision, just as an elf loses his natural Low Light when doing the same. As an Adept's Powers are described as being natural, a case can be made either way.

Once again, you need to re-read the canon material sometime. Especially based upon your last completely ignorant sentence... which I corrected you on with the very first thing in the last message.

Either way, he'll still lose the ork's natural low-light vision, unless you use Doc's interpretation *and* the ork buys his low-light as an Improved Sense. In the end I suppose it's worth it. It even makes a kind of sense, as much as magic ever makes. After all, you don't restrict the adept from channeling his Killing Hands through a cyberlimb, do you? Or from taking Dermal Sheathing and combining it with Mystic Armor?

Good riddance.

There is no such ruling. I suggested he re-read the material since he was making multiple mistakes, but apparently that was a grevious insult.

The only implant that I can remember that specifically mentions it can only be installed in a cybereye is the Basic Eye Laser System. There may be one or two others, but that's the only one I can remember at the moment.

Eye datajacks as well, although neither are really relevant here. Again, my only real point was that you can't get cybereyes (for the Essence savings) and retain your natural low-light vision. Though it has no real basis in the rules, I still don't think adepts should be allowed to get cybereyes without losing their magical improved vision, but that's mostly because I don't like adepts, and has nothing to do with the rules.

Anyway, back to the character:

"I 4 (4-1)"
I think you meant "I 4 (5-1)" here.

"Proj Weapons/Bows 2 (1.0)"

I agree with the people who said this isn't all that useful right now. Seven dice for shooting bows is fine until you hit around 50 Karma or so. I suggest 2 levels of Improved Stealth and either a couple more Improved Senses, Magic Sense, or Empathic Sense. Flare Comp is nice, as is Microscopic Vision if you ever plan on learning B&E, which you should considering you are the stealth man.

I'd also listen to toturi's advice about shifting around your attritutes and skills a little. Honestly your skill in stealth is almost certainly going to be more important than your skill at negotiations; only rarely will you be able to negotiate better than a Johnson, who's usually highly specialized for just such a purpose, and Stealth'll actually keep you alive.

I could be way off, and I'm half awake here, but;

Thermo and low light naturally occur in metahumans as a fact of biology right? Magically active or not, an elf can have lowlight, and a dwarf can have thermo, right? Physiological science. If the sense organ is removed, then so are it's inherant benefits...

If I remember right, can't cyberwear be taken with you into the astral plane because it's paid for with essence? Which means your cyberlimb or your spurs or whatever aren't left behind when you go astral.

Physad's abilities are explicitly unnatural They are supernatural or magic, aren't they?

That do anything for anybody?

I dunno... some random disjointed thoughts.

Adept Vision/hearing etc. enhancements are considered natural. This according to the FAQ. I would rule that Cybereyes/Ears would replace the "natural" benefit that an adept receives from adept powers.

I know many people feel that an adept should stay mostly magical, or only accept some "light" cyber mods. But what about the full on Cyber Adept. Seems to me the rules were pretty explicitly written that awakened types can accept all except that last point of cyber/bioware and geasa themselves to maintain an equivalent full magic rating.

An adept with 8 power points(geasa), 2 bioindex, and 4 pts in cyberware (essence 2) has a real magic attribute of 1 and with geasa functions like he has a magic of 6. Take a single, or even a few, talisman geasa (earings, necklace, or some more personal body piercings in areas that we all know and love). Make sure the adept powers are useful but not critical to overall character function, so that even if you lose the talismans you are still as functional as any other character with 4pts of cyberware and 2pts bioware.

That would be a pretty trick character to play. With all those options you could fill mutliple roles in a team, especially if you take Skillwires 3, 16mp, CED3 and Custom Activsofts with the cluster option - add EA and you get to roll up to 8 dice for those skill tests.

What about magic loss you say? Well on a magic check 2d6 you would have to roll a 2 to lose that last point of magic - a 1 in 36 chance. I would hedge my bets by jacking body with Bonelacing Plastic, Dermal Sheath 1, and Suprathyroid - that should get a human to body 10. Wear good armor, and suffering a deadly wound should be pretty rare.

Min maxing? Well we all do that to one degree or another in our own lives so I wont get into that discussion.

Well rounded, heck yeah. A character like that could be a face, first or second rate sammy, B/E expert, etc. The trick is all the cool abilities and the skillwires.

Character story. She hung with the gangs as a youth and started selecting the cyberware/bioware for its obvious benefits. Turns out she was a late bloomer on the magical charts and and when her almost defunct magical ability kicked in she embraced it. Turns out she always had this affinity for some old jewelry her grandmother left her and she never left home without it. It just didnt *feel* right not having all her jewelry in its appropriatly pierced areas, they had become something of a good luck charm to her. Low and behold she discovers that she had bonded the jewelry like a fetish in order to keep from losing all those magic points.

You get the idea. Go ahead and tear it apart.

Combining adept abilities and cyberware can actually produce a tough combination, but there are two problems with a full-bore cybered adept:

First, when adepts accept a geas for magic loss, the game master is the one who selects it. The good news is that many GMs feel this is a silly rule and let adepts pick their geasa like any other awakened character. But most good GMs will still look carefully at geasa, since they are supposed to be an actual limitation on the character.

Secondly, adepts and sammies are already the toughest two types of characters to create, point-wise. They need high physical Attributes but still need moderately good mental Attributes, and they also need a wide range of combat and other skills. When you are spending 25 points on being an adept, and 20-30 points on resources on top of that, you really spread yourself thin. The benefits are counteracted by your inferior skills and Attributes. It depends on the point allocation. For a 150-point game, that kind of character would actually be the smart choice. Trying to do it with 120 points would be pretty painful, though.

M&M page 15:

But isn't flavour text as Canon as game mechanics?

Not when it comes to the rules of the game. Read over Vision Magnification or the fluff vs. rules for Ruthenium Polymers sometime.

the inability to mount a sensory system in a natural organ is a pretty important distinction. if the eyelight system was not intended to be mounted in a natural eye, the text should be errata'd to reflect that; the vague reference to cybereye mounting is not strong enough to be convincing. or, well, it's not strongly-worded enough to convince me; obviously, though, i'm more resistant to M&M's jedi mind tricks than Fortune is!

Depends on what the rest of the party is capable of.

Personally, I don't like designing characters that way. Having weak spots in your group makes for a more fun experience in my opinion, though it could lead up to the standard question that gets ignored in Shadowrun; "why would a Johnson hire a team not suitable to the job?"

Definitely secondary skills - three people for a team is pretty light and the talent will be spread thin.

-Siege

Glad the Eye light debate is virtually over, thats some thing i do with so many of my characters wether it be Magic, Racial or Edge based.

Eh, even without SOTA:2064, pulling off a warrior adept-face is pretty easy to do, and that covers three areas well enough.

Priorities: Attributes > Magic > Resources > Skills > Race.
Attributes: All of them are important, though Quickness and Charisma are the two I'd focus on.
Skills: Melee/Martial Art Skill, Firearm Skill, Etiquette, Negotiation.
Powers (Geased): Improved Ability: Melee Skill 4, Improved Ability: Firearm Skill 3, Improved Reflexes 2, Improved Senses 4, Quick Draw.
Edges: Ambidexterity 4, Friendly Face, Good Looking & Knows It, Good Reputation 2; Bad Karma, Dark Secret, Police Record (or any other flaws equally -13 points)
Resources: Twin firearms (at least one with a Laser Sight for when you need accuracy over lots of lead), twin melee weapons, Vashon Island Actioneer Line suit, form fitting body armor, pocket secretary, and a handful of diverse contacts.

...and bam, you have someone who's pretty gosh-darn effective across all three categories. You're throwing 10 (Specialization 7 + IA 3) dice up to four times a phase with a +0/+0 modifier on your firearms rolls, you have 16 dice available for all of your melee tests, and you're more than capable of dealing with established contacts or people you run into on the street as well as any dedicated mundane face can.

With SOTA:2064, you could even choose to go into munchkin territory as the face role if you like (Kinesics 3 alone is ungodly; -3 TN [-5 with Good Reputation 2, meaning -5 on all Availability checks amongst other things] *and* +3 dice on *all* social Charisma Tests... plus more; they need some real frelling playtesters), or you could focus on one of your other areas, too.