In SR, the Catholic Church has strict guidelines regarding magic:

• a) Magic is not divine manifestation (no more so than any other science or force of nature).
• b) Magic is not miracle (miracles are manifestations of God's power, magic can be harnessed by any man).
• c) Conjuration is strictly regulated (because the nature of spirits is a serious complication to Catholic cosmology) and requires special Papal dispensation for members of the clergy to practice (Templar Knights are assumed to recieve this).
• d) Theurgy is the recognized/accepted magical tradition for members of the clergy (Hermeticism purged of Pagan references and symbols).
• e) Like Hermeticism, Theurgy is both a neutral science and an artform, use of specific prayers, Catholic regalia and accruements is an option of individual mages not a mandatory requirement (ie. you don't have to be pious to use Theurgy).

Note - This is the Roman Catholic take on things, Orthodox Christians and Reformist Protestants have similar but slightly different takes on Theurgy (the former particularly features a lot of shamanic aspects). When it comes to Evangelicals all bets are off, but my instinct would be to go Shamanic over Hermetic/Theugist.

Once again, I'd like to underline the fact that the previous quotes deal with Roman Catholic Theurgy and specifically the Templar understanding thereof. Personally, I see most Catholic Theurgists (which are almost exclusively concentrated in the Sylvestrine -and Templar- orders btw), using Saintly patronages rather than Archangels (ie. a Sylvestrine healer evoking Saint Francis to aid the magic healing of animals, or a Jesuit evoking Saint Dunstan to work an Exorcism).

Finally, you may note I never claimed to have written the Templar material. Which is kind of appropriate, because I didn't. However, I did write the complementary material in SOTA64 and SoE, and crossreferenced my writing with Steve Kenson (Grimoire2, Awakenings) and Dan Grendell (Threats2), as well as doing a fair amount of research on the RL facts of Christian theugy.

Disclaimer - As usual with any canon material, everyone is free to change, tweak or modify anything they dislike or would prefer to work otherwise. The posts above are only intended to clarify the point-of-view behind the recently published material in SOTA64 and how it works in context with previously published material. For anyone interested the canon references to Theurgy are spread out across Grimoire 1 & 2, Awakenings, Germany, MitS, Threats 2 and SOTA64.

Once again I am impressed by the depth of research/knowledge exhibited by writers for SR - I was raised in the Serbian Orthodox church, you see, which is incidentally why the character concept that kicked this discussion off was an Orthodox priest.

Toxics would take two forms, I'd think, akin to the 'Purifier' vs 'Avenger' split from the environmental sorts. One the one hand, you'd have a crazed Fire and Brimestone sort that wanted to cleanse the unbelievers but truly believed that he was righteous and so forth while on the other you'd have someone who was 'crazy' and wanted to spread the evil. That'd be the baby-eatting kind.

The important bits is to recall that toxics are nutjobs in either form, NOT that what culture they spawn from. You can easily have a Marilyn Manson type of pretty much harmless Satanist who is beyond apalled at the Toxics. That's what they're there for. Toxics are just *nasty*. As long as you keep the twisty part seperate from the Toxic part, you should be able to have about any situation come up that could be handled in an adult manner.

-- Johnny Reb

Yeah, that's why I noted it in what I *thought* was plain and clear terms and such. You have Toxic Televangelist-types who want to clear the world of the unbeliever and whatnot, which certainly don't represent the vast majority of their 'flock'. Similarly, you'd have Toxic Satanists that are way the heck out there and the normal guys are, like, "Dude! You're gonna get us all killed! Are you *insane*?!"

Very important to seperate the loony Toxic types from the normal faithful.

But you start to see why the issue's been danced around in the official cannon. One wrong word and you're in a heap of trouble.

-- Johnny Reb

Err, your Purifier is about right, but your Avenger is way off. A toxic shaman doesn't switch totems/idols; their view of that totem/idol shifts. A toxic Christian shaman would not spontaneously switch to worshipping Satan -- that would be a Satanist (hello Captain Obvious). In effect it's like saying that a toxic Dog shaman is actually a Cat shaman.