Full Version: Dunk
There's enough of a mystery surrounding his "death" and I know that my gaming group and myself have all discussed what the options would be if he hadn't actually been assassinated. What do you think?
Dude, Dragon Heart Trilogy, dude.
Ignoring canon for a moment, I don't think Dunkelzahn will return. Both the Draco Foundation, which is the equivalent of his spirit, and Ghostwalker, equivalent of his body, have replaced him and the need of him.
Yes, Dunkelzahn is dead. He and Billy Burnout made a valiant try at stemming the tide of Horrors, but they have failed and died in the process.
The destruction of humanity is fast approaching.
~J
The destruction of humanity is fast approaching.
~J
[ Spoiler ]
I clicked other. Ye didnae have one for "He's dead, Jim!" ! 
!
!
Voted "other" as stated above, the whole thing was answered in the Dragon Heart trilogy of novels.
You forgot "He's dead. But he's working an angle."
Best Gov Schwarzenegger voice, "I'll be back."
Best Gov Schwarzenegger voice, "I'll be back."
[ Spoiler ]
Dunk's spirit is kicking around out there by canon. But I highly doubt that he'll come up again in published material. The Big D represents the "Old Guard" when it comes to FanPro publications, IMO.
In my view of the setting, I prefer it with Dunkelzahn actually having been assassinated. It leads to much more interesting stories than the total munchkinfest that was that idiotic triology (nevermind my continued beef as to why they killed off Dunkelzahn).
I do not get it. The characters in the books are powerful, but I do not understand why people constantly label them as munchkins? Or why do people constantly diss Ryan Mercury?
IMO, that should be the level of skill/power that a Prime Runner should be. Superman levels. It is Canon even, members of Assets Inc are Superhuman. That is comparable to Renraku Red Samurai.
Perhaps all this bitching is the inability to accept that power levels like that are Canon and that while you may say,"That's not happening in MY game" or "That'll never have happened if I was the GM", a published example proves you wrong.
IMO, that should be the level of skill/power that a Prime Runner should be. Superman levels. It is Canon even, members of Assets Inc are Superhuman. That is comparable to Renraku Red Samurai.
Perhaps all this bitching is the inability to accept that power levels like that are Canon and that while you may say,"That's not happening in MY game" or "That'll never have happened if I was the GM", a published example proves you wrong.
Because to a lot of people he lacks depth, not saying I agree or disagree, and reeks of someones pet project.
I like the idea of him (Dunk) being dead, like Doc F, but I don't think we've dealt with it much yet.
So why did they kill him off Doc? From your view?
I like the idea of him (Dunk) being dead, like Doc F, but I don't think we've dealt with it much yet.
So why did they kill him off Doc? From your view?
Also almost every-no every published book lacks the depth that I put into my games. SO when I say that won't happen in my game-I mean it. Not just because it contradicts me-which I could care less about personally, but because 99% of the books suck. And badly.
I think the definition of Prime Runner doesn't apply to all the characters in all the books. Some? Yes. Ryan Mercury? Definitely. Jane? Sure. Sam Verner? No. Kham? No. Wolf and Raven? Yes. Doger? Sort of-in the decking world he is obviously a step above, but still no Fast Jack.
The bitching is because if Canon were the books it'd be worse than it already is at points. The books barely hold up together in my opinion. Burning Bright, my favorite book, is a different world from Nights Pawn.
I think the definition of Prime Runner doesn't apply to all the characters in all the books. Some? Yes. Ryan Mercury? Definitely. Jane? Sure. Sam Verner? No. Kham? No. Wolf and Raven? Yes. Doger? Sort of-in the decking world he is obviously a step above, but still no Fast Jack.
The bitching is because if Canon were the books it'd be worse than it already is at points. The books barely hold up together in my opinion. Burning Bright, my favorite book, is a different world from Nights Pawn.
The point is that I've not seen anyone (ANYONE) complain that Burnout is too powerful yet. But there is evidently a lot of negative opinion on Mercury. In fact, I've never seen anyone bitch about how munchkin the antagonist is in the books. Why? I really don't know.
He's a cyberzombie?
| QUOTE |
| In fact, I've never seen anyone bitch about how munchkin the antagonist is in the books. Why? I really don't know. |
Well... It might be because the antagonist needs to be as powerful as the hero, eh? And I think that's the real problem people have with many of the primary characters, especially Ryan: they are heros.
Moreover, he didn't really do anything that far fetched when you consider that he basically traded his soul in addition to the Talent for the ability to move real fast and store a minigun in his back.
Add to that he had the spirit of a Great Dragon fused with his body later in the books.
The problem I have is with Darke. Or more specifially the hordes of angsty teenagers that think working for the Most Unholly is *cool*.
Ryan Mercury has the classic traits of a munchkin. He has no parents, no family, was trained by a Great Dragon (let me know if you'd let a PC get away with that), and is a cold hearted killer with a likable, easy-going personality. Munchkin through and through. He also has a weakness for "perky, brown nipples."
Gimme a break.
It is true that Burnout shares most of the above traits but he lacks the crucial weakness of the nipple thing. (she worked for Polish Intel?! C'mon on now...)
Add to that he had the spirit of a Great Dragon fused with his body later in the books.
The problem I have is with Darke. Or more specifially the hordes of angsty teenagers that think working for the Most Unholly is *cool*.
[ Spoiler ]
Ryan Mercury has the classic traits of a munchkin. He has no parents, no family, was trained by a Great Dragon (let me know if you'd let a PC get away with that), and is a cold hearted killer with a likable, easy-going personality. Munchkin through and through. He also has a weakness for "perky, brown nipples."
Gimme a break.
It is true that Burnout shares most of the above traits but he lacks the crucial weakness of the nipple thing. (she worked for Polish Intel?! C'mon on now...)
| QUOTE (kevyn668 @ Dec 2 2004, 02:11 PM) |
| Ryan Mercury has the classic traits of a munchkin. He has no parents, no family, was trained by a Great Dragon (let me know if you'd let a PC get away with that), and is a cold hearted killer with a likable, easy-going personality. Munchkin through and through. He also has a weakness for "perky, brown nipples." |
I don't know about the "perky, brown nipples", but I would certainly allow "cold hearted killer with likeable, easy-going personality" and "trained by a Great Dragon". I don't recall Caimbeul having parents or family, but I've not seen anyone call him a munchkin yet. Wolf doesn't have family or parents either, but I've not seen people calling him a munchkin either.
By the way, what is wrong with heroes? Do they have to be wimps? Is there some defination somewhere that a hero may not waltz all over the opposition? If so, Mr Chao Yun Fatt in the various John Woo movies has played more munchkins than I can remember. And yet, I've yet to see someone say,"That's sooo munchkin!"
| QUOTE (kevyn668 @ Dec 2 2004, 01:11 AM) |
| The problem I have is with Darke. Or more specifially the hordes of angsty teenagers that think working for the Most Unholly is *cool*. [ Spoiler ] |
It's not just angst ridden teenagers who make deals with demons. Look at Saudi Arabia, they made a deal with one hoping to get a bully of their back, and in turn must pay the price. It happens all the time with humanity (look at the Cold War "allies" of the various nations). We're constantly looking out for our best interests at the moment, but rarely have the foresight of consequences. Besides, both Darke and Ryan became tools of that which empowered them, and the loss of freewill is a heavy price, in my humble opinion.
| QUOTE (Doctor Funkenstein) |
| In my view of the setting, I prefer it with Dunkelzahn actually having been assassinated. It leads to much more interesting stories than the total munchkinfest that was that idiotic triology (nevermind my continued beef as to why they killed off Dunkelzahn). |
Well, as a genre convention anyone that does pose a threat to the World Order ™ gets killed off by powers that be. Even the most powerful 'man' of the age. I think the Big D as president was supposed to give people a glimpse at a different life, then snatch it away from them.
The whole coming back thing just reeks of Messiah references.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| By the way, what is wrong with heroes? |
Nothing.
Unless you don't like heros.
| QUOTE |
| Do they have to be wimps? |
Hero's are never wimps.
| QUOTE |
| Is there some defination somewhere that a hero may not waltz all over the opposition? |
Yes.
It's called an Anti-Hero.
Anti-Hero's get beat up and nearly killed almost on a regular basis since they are meant to reflect a more human-down-to-earth-amazing-person character rather than a legend-demi-greek-god-super-human(Hero).
If you don't like Hero's, then often, you'll like Anti-Hero's.
The opposite is also true, as well as the possibility for liking both.
In this thread, it seems there are a number of people who prefer the Anti-Hero.
Well, I feel like a Schmoo for not having read or *gasp* even hearing of said trilogy. I read one Shadowrun book once and even in high school I could tell that it was "schlockily" written. I haven't picked up one since. Can someone do one of those little '30 second movie reviews' on the books for me?
Yeah, Read Burning Bright.
yes, there's something wrong with heros: they don't belong in SR. i mean, Worlds Without End had friggin' immortal elves fighting horrors head-on in it--but not a hero in sight. there shouldn't be any noble, selfless people in SR, or at least not any noble, selfless people who get the happy ending at the end of the story. SR just isn't about heroes and happy endings.
It isn't? I thought it is all about heroes. It is Canon even, for example,
| QUOTE (P 251 SR3) |
| Whether stealing data from megacorp's top secret database, providing security for a visiting dignitary when the drek hits the fan or busting a valuable researcher out of a high-security corp enclave, the player characters are the heroes. |
Are you sure you are playing SR or just some game you think is SR, mfb?
sigh. dammit, you've got a point. ah, well, add another strand to the cat-o-nine-tails with which i have to beat myself whenever i open an SR book.
Slighty OT, but was it ever revealed if there was anything more to Kenneth Brackhaven, other than the Humanis link?
I've always wondered about the name Brackhaven and it's similarity to Brackhaus.
I've always wondered about the name Brackhaven and it's similarity to Brackhaus.
On the subject of Brakhaven:
[ Spoiler ]
Personaly, I liked the Dragon Heart Trilogy, and do believe that heros have a place in SR. Would I ever let one of my players play a character with his background? Hell no! He's an NPC, he can be as bad ass as he needs to be for the story. I mean Great dragons do have minions, and im sure they would want their minions to be as capable as possible, not some 2 bit runners off the street. It makes sense that he is powerful.
I think that when you have a character who does everything, or most things (or too many things) right, people don't like it. Have you ever read a book where the main character was always right? It gets annoying. Have you ever known someone who was right most of the time? It can be maddening.
If a character is good at everything (and I have no idea who Ryan Mercury is, since i never read the books), its just not interesting, because its not relatable. Characters like that, we root to fail. Why do I hate the roadrunner and Jerry the mouse? Why am I asking you?
If a character is good at everything (and I have no idea who Ryan Mercury is, since i never read the books), its just not interesting, because its not relatable. Characters like that, we root to fail. Why do I hate the roadrunner and Jerry the mouse? Why am I asking you?
Yeah, but Ryan didnt do everythign right. He screwed up. A lot.
Ryan only screwed up when he needed to for the plot. IE: the getting captured bu Damien Knight thing.
Ruan mercury was a carddboard character, that reeked of "Look how cool this is, this is COOL!" instead of a plausable, believable character that could serve well to drive a story. That entire book went that way.
There wasn't just a cyberzombie, there was a cyberzombie ex-mage that got bound to the spirit of the now deceased president and one of the most powerful magic users in existance, which allowed him to cast magic again. Then gets permanently fused to one fo the biggest power foci in existance so he can spend the rest of his life forever saving the world from the great black enemy. That's just bad writing IMHO. It's Deus Ex machina. It's the kind of game I would have run when I was younger and thought the character themselves and their kick ass factor was more important that story and plot. It's a giant cheezefest.
If I wanted lame ass save the world storylines I'd be playing DnD, and some people can't get out of that mindset.
in contrast I offer 2XS, House of the Sun, and Burning Bright.
On that note, how is a good shadowrun series any which contained the line "try an easy spell, start small, Hellblast". Someone needs to read some source material.
Ruan mercury was a carddboard character, that reeked of "Look how cool this is, this is COOL!" instead of a plausable, believable character that could serve well to drive a story. That entire book went that way.
There wasn't just a cyberzombie, there was a cyberzombie ex-mage that got bound to the spirit of the now deceased president and one of the most powerful magic users in existance, which allowed him to cast magic again. Then gets permanently fused to one fo the biggest power foci in existance so he can spend the rest of his life forever saving the world from the great black enemy. That's just bad writing IMHO. It's Deus Ex machina. It's the kind of game I would have run when I was younger and thought the character themselves and their kick ass factor was more important that story and plot. It's a giant cheezefest.
If I wanted lame ass save the world storylines I'd be playing DnD, and some people can't get out of that mindset.
in contrast I offer 2XS, House of the Sun, and Burning Bright.
On that note, how is a good shadowrun series any which contained the line "try an easy spell, start small, Hellblast". Someone needs to read some source material.
Agreed. Most of the SR books read like comic books written by the character's biggest fanboi. While it might be entertaing for some, it's usually not for most people.
I much prefer the better story, lower power books that were written. Who really wants to read about some writer's cheesy favorite character doing things that simply aren't possible for a character that is used to actually play the game?
It's ok for games like Star Wars, where that kind of high-fiction, scifi stuff is going on, but for more "gritty" games, like SR, it doesn't work all that well.
I much prefer the better story, lower power books that were written. Who really wants to read about some writer's cheesy favorite character doing things that simply aren't possible for a character that is used to actually play the game?
It's ok for games like Star Wars, where that kind of high-fiction, scifi stuff is going on, but for more "gritty" games, like SR, it doesn't work all that well.
To answer the original question:
He's dead. Dead, dead, dead, dead dead. Very dead. And he's staying dead. At least IMG.
Dunkelzahn is now the object lesson I use for players to show them that no one and nothing is so big that it can't be gotten rid of.
Granted, some of my players have a slight overconfidence thing going on...
He's dead. Dead, dead, dead, dead dead. Very dead. And he's staying dead. At least IMG.
Dunkelzahn is now the object lesson I use for players to show them that no one and nothing is so big that it can't be gotten rid of.
Granted, some of my players have a slight overconfidence thing going on...
| QUOTE (Demosthenes) |
| Dunkelzahn is now the object lesson I use for players to show them that no one and nothing is so big that it can't be gotten rid of. |
Not a good example if you're sticking with the canon malarky. Suicide is hardly proof that "nothing is so big that it can't be gotten rid of." Especially when he's still around, even if only barely.
Unless you count sourcebooks as Canon, and not the novels.
At least, I don't think any sourcebooks explicity state why all that junk happened.
At least, I don't think any sourcebooks explicity state why all that junk happened.
That is quite true. Even so, the fact that Dunkie is dead demonstrates that characters of that level of power can die, and that circumstances can force them into situations where they have no choice but to die.
IMG "Canon" is a company that produces cameras and similar paraphernalia.
Not having read the dragonheart trilogy (try finding it in Ireland), and having little desire to do so, I can hardly include the events it describes in my game.
Canon is useful in that it provides all of us with a common ground to discuss SR. That doesn't mean that it makes sense, or that it's the be-all and end-all of Shadowrun.
IMG "Canon" is a company that produces cameras and similar paraphernalia.
Not having read the dragonheart trilogy (try finding it in Ireland), and having little desire to do so, I can hardly include the events it describes in my game.
Canon is useful in that it provides all of us with a common ground to discuss SR. That doesn't mean that it makes sense, or that it's the be-all and end-all of Shadowrun.
[ Spoiler ]
Trust me, you're preaching to the choir when it comes to determining what's canon and what's simply official. Sadly, however, FanPro/WizKids/whoever considers the novels to be as canonical as anything else they put out. Absolutely tragic.
Especially tragic in the case of Nosferatu.
I compare those books to the untimate cardinal GM sin of playing his own "ubercool" party member as an NPC... you know the type, the kind of NPC that can do everythign the party can do, better, because the GM wants to "do cool things". When, in reality, the game is significantly less enjoyable for the players but the GM doesn't notice.
A common problem for new, or inexperienced GM's.. and authors...
I compare those books to the untimate cardinal GM sin of playing his own "ubercool" party member as an NPC... you know the type, the kind of NPC that can do everythign the party can do, better, because the GM wants to "do cool things". When, in reality, the game is significantly less enjoyable for the players but the GM doesn't notice.
A common problem for new, or inexperienced GM's.. and authors...
Not having read the Dragon Heart trilogy (yet), my first impression of Dunkelzhan's death was that it was staged.
[ Spoiler ]
Except NPC's like that shouldn't be played as characters. They are not characters, nor should they be played as such. They are plot devices and nothing more. Now in a novel its perfectly acceptable.
No one ever claimed that the novel was a description of how a shadowrun game should be played. That would be rediculous. The reason i believe, that it was made into a novel and not an adventure was that it needed superhuman characters to forward the plot in the universe. Now if the dragon heart trilogy had been published as an adventure with Ryan Mercury being played by the PC's that would have been dumb and your complaints would have been valid. But it wasnt.
You dont see people complaining that the Hero's of the Lance were able to save the world, or that a Hobbit was able to destroy the one ring do you? No. They are Novels, not examples of game play, therefore they should be judged on a completely different standard.
No one ever claimed that the novel was a description of how a shadowrun game should be played. That would be rediculous. The reason i believe, that it was made into a novel and not an adventure was that it needed superhuman characters to forward the plot in the universe. Now if the dragon heart trilogy had been published as an adventure with Ryan Mercury being played by the PC's that would have been dumb and your complaints would have been valid. But it wasnt.
You dont see people complaining that the Hero's of the Lance were able to save the world, or that a Hobbit was able to destroy the one ring do you? No. They are Novels, not examples of game play, therefore they should be judged on a completely different standard.
| QUOTE |
| You dont see people complaining that the Hero's of the Lance were able to save the world, or that a Hobbit was able to destroy the one ring do you? No. They are Novels, not examples of game play, therefore they should be judged on a completely different standard. |
Those are set in an entirely different usiverse where saving the world is an accepted pastime, lick picknicking. They are also high fantasy, the key word here being fantasy. While I'm at it Frodo was a FAR more developed character than the cardboard cut out of Ryan Mercury. Frodo was also far less of a muchnkin in the grand scheme of things.
actually, Frodo is a Hobbit....WW Barister is a Munchkin....
[ Spoiler ]
Yes, but Shadowrun is set in the Earthdawn universe, where saving the world is common place. =) Its a Sci-Fi Fanstasy setting. There are Orcs and Trolls and Elves, why is it that having some fantasy elements is perfectly acceptable while others are not?
Muchnkin? Muchnkin you say ya know I just don't get t that when speaking of Ryan Mercury.
How is he a muchnkin he is not some uber adept come on if you read the novels it is clear he is a drake which are now cannon thanks to DotSW.
So where is all this muchnkin biz coming from?
It only makes sence that a great dragon would have as his best asset a drake which he would train more or less in the art of the physmage character type.
A great needs someone powerfull but physically able cause if magic is needed the great can do it better than almost any other being in the world. (I mean come on magic to magic a great would stomp Harlequin's arse and Harlequin can quote unquote do any magical spell at a level higher than any player character could hope to do it at.)
So yes Ryan is a big bad oh my god he can do what character but a muchnkin not in my opinion.
As to Dunkelzhan he lives on in the cyberzombies body on the metaplanes and he does remember who he is so knowing who he is and having more or less the most powerfull magical item ever I have to say don't count him totally out yet.
Although..... the story line when written that could bring him back is gonna have to be very well written cause for him to leave the metaplanes would in my opinion be helpfull to the horrors and that is not the way Dunkelzhan works.
I would think he'll stay there for a long time to come if not forever.
Oh yeah I have and have read all of the novels and I find them to be entertaining and enjoyable they are stories of hero's and every game needs some hero's in it as does every storyline.
Just remember these uber characters are plot devices more or less the average runner should not be getting cought up in there plots only feeling the fallout of the decisions made by the uber characters and only on a small scale.
Yes Dunkelzhan killed him self but how many really know that not many as for the normal runners they should only know that he was killed and how that effects the world he was president after all.
I mean if Bush killed himself (ok I'd cheer but he that is a different topic altogether) and we were told he was assasinated we would more than likely belive what we were told.
Then we would have to deal with the fall out of a dead president just like we did with JFK other than that what we know can easily be very little same goes with Dunkelzhan dieing.
To that end if Bush killed himself and world peace broke out as a result I would hope Bush would not want to come back from the grave it may end world peace smae goes for Dunkelzhan he is being vigil in the meteplanes where he needs to stay cause that is where he is needed.
But hey these are just my opinions and nothing more have a nice day.
There edited for easier reading sorry was late for me when I did the orginal post.
How is he a muchnkin he is not some uber adept come on if you read the novels it is clear he is a drake which are now cannon thanks to DotSW.
So where is all this muchnkin biz coming from?
It only makes sence that a great dragon would have as his best asset a drake which he would train more or less in the art of the physmage character type.
A great needs someone powerfull but physically able cause if magic is needed the great can do it better than almost any other being in the world. (I mean come on magic to magic a great would stomp Harlequin's arse and Harlequin can quote unquote do any magical spell at a level higher than any player character could hope to do it at.)
So yes Ryan is a big bad oh my god he can do what character but a muchnkin not in my opinion.
As to Dunkelzhan he lives on in the cyberzombies body on the metaplanes and he does remember who he is so knowing who he is and having more or less the most powerfull magical item ever I have to say don't count him totally out yet.
Although..... the story line when written that could bring him back is gonna have to be very well written cause for him to leave the metaplanes would in my opinion be helpfull to the horrors and that is not the way Dunkelzhan works.
I would think he'll stay there for a long time to come if not forever.
Oh yeah I have and have read all of the novels and I find them to be entertaining and enjoyable they are stories of hero's and every game needs some hero's in it as does every storyline.
Just remember these uber characters are plot devices more or less the average runner should not be getting cought up in there plots only feeling the fallout of the decisions made by the uber characters and only on a small scale.
Yes Dunkelzhan killed him self but how many really know that not many as for the normal runners they should only know that he was killed and how that effects the world he was president after all.
I mean if Bush killed himself (ok I'd cheer but he that is a different topic altogether) and we were told he was assasinated we would more than likely belive what we were told.
Then we would have to deal with the fall out of a dead president just like we did with JFK other than that what we know can easily be very little same goes with Dunkelzhan dieing.
To that end if Bush killed himself and world peace broke out as a result I would hope Bush would not want to come back from the grave it may end world peace smae goes for Dunkelzhan he is being vigil in the meteplanes where he needs to stay cause that is where he is needed.
But hey these are just my opinions and nothing more have a nice day.
There edited for easier reading sorry was late for me when I did the orginal post.
EOTLF: paragraph breaks. for the love of god, paragraph breaks. also, if you're feeling really spunky? commas.
halabis, the orks, trolls, and elves are the fantasy elements that are acceptable. i'm aware that some of the fluff text in SR3 disagrees with me, but heroes are a fantasy element that is unacceptable in a cyberpunk setting. cyberpunk is not, at its core, about the cyberware and the cool VR stuff--it's about the hopelessness and dirtiness that cyberware, VR, and other elements bring with them. heroes are not hopless and dirty. the closest thing to a hero in cyberpunk should be an anti-hero: still badass, still saving the world, but not noble and only barely "good".
ryan mercury is a hero. even his name is heroic: "this is a job for... Ryyyyyan Mmmmmercuryyyy!" his girlfriend is an honest-and-for-goddamn-real fairy princess. his only real angst is that his friend and mentor (who happens to be a being of epic power) sacrificed his own life for the greater good--and, oh yeah, he's not even really dead. he's just too D&D for my tastes--and i'm a man who loves his D&D, don't get me wrong. but it doesn't have a place in SR, to me.
halabis, the orks, trolls, and elves are the fantasy elements that are acceptable. i'm aware that some of the fluff text in SR3 disagrees with me, but heroes are a fantasy element that is unacceptable in a cyberpunk setting. cyberpunk is not, at its core, about the cyberware and the cool VR stuff--it's about the hopelessness and dirtiness that cyberware, VR, and other elements bring with them. heroes are not hopless and dirty. the closest thing to a hero in cyberpunk should be an anti-hero: still badass, still saving the world, but not noble and only barely "good".
ryan mercury is a hero. even his name is heroic: "this is a job for... Ryyyyyan Mmmmmercuryyyy!" his girlfriend is an honest-and-for-goddamn-real fairy princess. his only real angst is that his friend and mentor (who happens to be a being of epic power) sacrificed his own life for the greater good--and, oh yeah, he's not even really dead. he's just too D&D for my tastes--and i'm a man who loves his D&D, don't get me wrong. but it doesn't have a place in SR, to me.
Ah, but, I believe that at its core shadowrun is a fantasy setting, and not a Cyberpunk one.
And I believe that this was a silly poll-no offense to the submitter.
Whether you use the Dragon Heart trilogy or not is your own business. Anyone who wants to find out what the canon version is can go ask Ancient History or even do a search on the forums and read the summarized version for themselves.
No matter, either way it seems the D is out of the picture for good. Batting at swarms of evil things in The Bad Place is a fairly time-consuming job, I would imagine.
Whether you use the Dragon Heart trilogy or not is your own business. Anyone who wants to find out what the canon version is can go ask Ancient History or even do a search on the forums and read the summarized version for themselves.
No matter, either way it seems the D is out of the picture for good. Batting at swarms of evil things in The Bad Place is a fairly time-consuming job, I would imagine.
| QUOTE |
| Ah, but, I believe that at its core shadowrun is a fantasy setting, and not a Cyberpunk one. |
I don't think it's one or the other at it's core - it's something new and different. Shadowrun at it's core is cyberpunk/fantasy.
It could and should have elements of both - the classical hero and the cyberpunk anti hero. If you look closely at the books you might see it that way.
Sam Verner and Ryan Mercury were both Clasic heroes - they embarked on a quest and in the end saved the world. But they are both entirely different characters.
Jack Skater and crew were definetly a different bunch - they were after the scrore, but not willing to cross any semi-ethical boundries. In the end they helped a Baby and a programmer. Not the world, but still good adventures.
Sam saved the world? Er, ok.
I thought he:
a) killed a wendigo, saving part of the UK maybe
b) changed his sister back into a human
I thought he:
a) killed a wendigo, saving part of the UK maybe
b) changed his sister back into a human
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