Full Version: Digital piracy in SR
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| But do they know how to avoid the potholes when they're disguised as parking spaces? |
If they grew up doing so yes, and even when one occasionally gets hit they tell everybody to avoid that spot. And so on.
| QUOTE |
| It's also entirely probable that one cannot access the Matrix without going through a server. The RTG/host topology is fairly unlike the modern Internet topology, IMO. |
And? Forged headers and even meagerly encrypted data would make scanning all but futile. Plus ca change...
nezumi, what you're talking about does two things: first, it takes away plausible deniability for spreading virus-ridden files (since in a p2p network, there's no real way to make the files available for download without someone actively making them available); second, it makes the corp liable for supporting piracy.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| tanka, you're not hearing me. i'm saying that the computer users of today are largely illiterate, compared to the users of 2060. yes, i know computer users today are stupid. but that's a trend that's changing very quickly. |
Is it? Last I checked, there's still the same call for techies because people don't know jack.
If it works, people don't care how it works, just that it does. When it doesn't, they call those who know how to fix it instead of learning how to do it themselves.
How quickly is the computer literacy rate changing? If it's changing as fast as you claim, there would never have been as big of an outbreak that was Sasser. Or Sobig. Or any virus, for that matter.
In fact, it's almost directly stated that, with no Computer skill, you can only do day-to-day things. Which is probably send messages over the Matrix, write up a few documents, and maybe make a half-decent presentation with the PowerPoint equivalent. Everything else will be Greek to the regular person.
mfb, both you and I are computer geeks at heart. As such, most of our friends are (I'm assuming for you, but it's probably safe to do so) also computer geeks. If not, they're fairly smart and can at least default to Int and catch our lingo for the most part. Literacy is increasing amongst our kind, because there's so much you have to know so much to get anywhere.
My sister is a Mechanical Engineer getting her Master's right now. She knows jack about computers. My girlfriend aspires to be an Architect, and knows jack about computers as well. Move that to one of my good friends -- who is homeschooled -- she's also computer illiterate. Her boyfriend, an artist, knows just a tad more than she.
That's just my sphere. I won't touch my parents because they're past the age of wanting to learn for the sake of learning. I could continue, but what would be the point?
No, computer literacy is not increasing. You're just noticing more people who are literate than who aren't.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) | ||
But do they know how to avoid the potholes when they're disguised as parking spaces? |
Indeed. Certainly most people know not to fall down a hole when you're running/driving; you learn that when you're three years old. The problem is most people stop learning things right around then too.
| QUOTE |
| It's also entirely probable that one cannot access the matrix without going through a server. The RTG/host topology is fairly unlike the modern Internet topology, IMO. |
Well, not really. Most of the Internet works via a packet-switching star topology (Edit: actually more of a star-bus or star-network topology, but the point is essentially the same) today, which is similar to the telecommunications grid upin which the SR Matrix is bassed. We just don't see it because of the logical topology that IP and DNS, and later web browsers, search engines and HTTP impose on top of it. And that's kinda my point: even most people who *think* they know something are usually wrong about what they know, mostly because the reality isn't physically staring them in the face (like the physical pothole you drive around by instinct).
A classic example is an urban legend about the brain. Now, how much of the brain does the average person use? Most people would give an answer somewhere between 10 and 30%, but they'd all be completely, hopelessly wrong. In fact, we actually do use 100% of our brains; those 10-30% figures were made up back in the early 20s or even earlier, back before we could even attempt to conduct real research into the function of the brain, by various charlatans and tricksters to explain where their mystical or psychic powers came from, and are propogated today by those same types of people for the same reasons. "Most people only use a tiny fraction of their brains... Imiagine what you could do if you could harnass the power of the remaining percent!"
Of course, noone questions it, because that would involve thinking, and discovering something new. Most would rather leave it alone because it's something that "everybody knows." Imagine what we'll "know" in 2060.
Gotta love star topologies... The ones that make the least sense and make the most mess out of everything.
Ah, well. Can't have everything, can we?
Ah, well. Can't have everything, can we?
| QUOTE |
| Of course, noone questions it, because that would involve thinking, and discovering something new. Most would rather leave it alone because it's something that "everybody knows." Imagine what we'll "know" in 2060. |
Not to open email attachments from addresses you don't recognize?
eyless, your not 100% correct as to the layout of the net vs the sr matrix. in the sr matrix its a very orderd tree structure if you leave out the PLGs. on the net of today one have a nasty routeing system that could in theory send a message in loop if it wasnt for some nice tricks of counting hops and so on. basicly this is part of what makes the crash virus so effective. you could not isolate a part of the net very effectivly even if you wanted to, to many redundant links (okso modern trace maps show that this isnt 100% true, there are some heavy links that if taken out would basicly sever europe from usa or similar). however with a strongly reinforced stacked star system like the sr matrix one could sever the link to one ltg or similar and be safe (unless it spreads via a PLTG that is).
this may allso be why the persona idea got spawned, it basicly makes you have total control over all your connections at any one time. your system is only connected to the host (alltho the traffic may travel across many hosts, rtgs and ltgs) that your presona is active on at the time. no background traffic to other ports to worry about.
this i think is a basic factor in home computer security today. the computer is doing so many things under the hood that the user cant keep up on all of them. hell, to often im surprised and i try to run a (in my view) tight box.
with the persona metaphor however you have everything up front. single job boxes or boxes where all the software is burned into chips and only the data is loaded into memory and then read/interpeted. want a music player? its embeded on a chip. want a videoplayer, yet again embeded on a chip. basic spreadsheet and wordprosessor, same. basic browser and mail, same. want to change "software", change the chips. this may even be one reason for the "big" sr data files, the sr variation of fat binarys (a NEXT trick that allowed for the same binary to be used on more then one cpu arch without recompile). basicly you stuff the video or audio file with multiple variations of the data so that whatever playback chips your hardware have can find what they want.
allso rember that in sr, a kid with a chip burner and the right code can burn himself a "cpu" quick and it will perform just as well as something out of a "intel" lab. but maybe if it dont have the right codes embedded the data dont want to play back its contents? CSS(dvd) taken to the extreme and coverd by drakonian copyright laws?
this may allso be why the persona idea got spawned, it basicly makes you have total control over all your connections at any one time. your system is only connected to the host (alltho the traffic may travel across many hosts, rtgs and ltgs) that your presona is active on at the time. no background traffic to other ports to worry about.
this i think is a basic factor in home computer security today. the computer is doing so many things under the hood that the user cant keep up on all of them. hell, to often im surprised and i try to run a (in my view) tight box.
with the persona metaphor however you have everything up front. single job boxes or boxes where all the software is burned into chips and only the data is loaded into memory and then read/interpeted. want a music player? its embeded on a chip. want a videoplayer, yet again embeded on a chip. basic spreadsheet and wordprosessor, same. basic browser and mail, same. want to change "software", change the chips. this may even be one reason for the "big" sr data files, the sr variation of fat binarys (a NEXT trick that allowed for the same binary to be used on more then one cpu arch without recompile). basicly you stuff the video or audio file with multiple variations of the data so that whatever playback chips your hardware have can find what they want.
allso rember that in sr, a kid with a chip burner and the right code can burn himself a "cpu" quick and it will perform just as well as something out of a "intel" lab. but maybe if it dont have the right codes embedded the data dont want to play back its contents? CSS(dvd) taken to the extreme and coverd by drakonian copyright laws?
I think there are two distinct questions here:
1) Will piracy of consumer digitial content have become so common as to have radically altered the industry or its sales model, the way online filesharing currently looks like it might the music and games industries?
2) Will piracy or very, very expensive professional hacking software be sufficiently common among a small group of users so that their will be no real market for full-prices copies of those programs and/or that those professionals never need to pay anything for their tools.
Ideally we want the answer to both questions to be no, for reasons of game balance and consistency with other aspects of the world as written.
Focusing on (2), I'll throw out some possible reasons, none of which have any specific in game support, for why such pircay might not work:
a) Greater freedom for IP owners to enforce their rights. I'd say one of the major changes in the legal system is that pircacy of expensive software would be considered a near-capital crime, and inflicting property and even physical damage on pirates would be a-ok, regardless of jurisdiction.
b) viruses, whether as part of enforcement under (a) or naturally occuring, make copying a risky business in anything but the most hygeinic conditions.
c) quantum computing renders high level files literally uncopyable- you look in it and it's gone. And see (d) below.
d) Low rated programs can be copied and frequently are - the amount you pay only reflects removing the risks associated with (a) and (b). High level programs are either custom tailored to the individual, or retain their value only because they are extremely rare. Given that computer security is a competitive programing challenge, as soon as you attack 6 utility is common it is useless. So you, personally don't share it, and programers who rely on people trusting them to provide good products don't share it either.
1) Will piracy of consumer digitial content have become so common as to have radically altered the industry or its sales model, the way online filesharing currently looks like it might the music and games industries?
2) Will piracy or very, very expensive professional hacking software be sufficiently common among a small group of users so that their will be no real market for full-prices copies of those programs and/or that those professionals never need to pay anything for their tools.
Ideally we want the answer to both questions to be no, for reasons of game balance and consistency with other aspects of the world as written.
Focusing on (2), I'll throw out some possible reasons, none of which have any specific in game support, for why such pircay might not work:
a) Greater freedom for IP owners to enforce their rights. I'd say one of the major changes in the legal system is that pircacy of expensive software would be considered a near-capital crime, and inflicting property and even physical damage on pirates would be a-ok, regardless of jurisdiction.
b) viruses, whether as part of enforcement under (a) or naturally occuring, make copying a risky business in anything but the most hygeinic conditions.
c) quantum computing renders high level files literally uncopyable- you look in it and it's gone. And see (d) below.
d) Low rated programs can be copied and frequently are - the amount you pay only reflects removing the risks associated with (a) and (b). High level programs are either custom tailored to the individual, or retain their value only because they are extremely rare. Given that computer security is a competitive programing challenge, as soon as you attack 6 utility is common it is useless. So you, personally don't share it, and programers who rely on people trusting them to provide good products don't share it either.
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| eyless, your not 100% correct as to the layout of the net vs the sr matrix. in the sr matrix its a very orderd tree structure if you leave out the PLGs. on the net of today one have a nasty routeing system that could in theory send a message in loop if it wasnt for some nice tricks of counting hops and so on. basicly this is part of what makes the crash virus so effective. you could not isolate a part of the net very effectivly even if you wanted to, to many redundant links (okso modern trace maps show that this isnt 100% true, there are some heavy links that if taken out would basicly sever europe from usa or similar). however with a strongly reinforced stacked star system like the sr matrix one could sever the link to one ltg or similar and be safe (unless it spreads via a PLTG that is). |
Actually if you take a look at DNS you'll see the modern internet is logically organized around the same ideas: take out the thirteen root servers and noone will be able to look up a ".com" address again. Of course this logical layout doesn't exactly correspond to physical layout: the internet is not physically organized as a giant stacked tree rooting itself in the thirteen root servers, and I very much doubt that the SR's physical Matrix exactly corresponds to its logical topology of LTG and RTG numbers for the exact same reason.
And let's try to stay away from theories about the persona metaphor and the implications of being able to code a processor using an OCC; this thread's getting complicated enough already.
just the way i like it 
but realy, what i gather from SR is that the RTGs and LTGS act as both routing hubs and dns servers all rolled into one. and even if you take out the dns server you still have the underlying ip addresses to go to. and most computers these days dont query the main 13 ones much, they talk to a cacheing server set up by the local isp that keep a log of what people visit and the translation data. you would in fact need a sr crash to cripple the net by going after the main dns servers and you would have to burn all the data on them, take out the hardware to stall for time and then be ready to do it over and over as they try to bring backups online (or just burn the dns data on the severs, wait for backups to be installed and then burn the backups). this would have to happen coordinated on all 13 to realy have an effect and hope to hell that some big isp like aol didnt keep a slave server around in case something like this happend.
the SR setup is both tougher and more fragile in that only the RTG and its LTGs are dependent on it. all the rest will just fail to connect and then report that failure. but take out that one RTG and you have blown a hole in the matrix. the sr matrix is in some ways closer to the true idea of the arpanet, a series of interconnected systems where no one system was totaly dependent on any sentral system for its operation. yes you can take out part of it but the rest will still compute and communicate.
to truely make this happen in the net of today would involve setting up atleast one dns server in every contry that was a complete mirror of the 13 on top and that allso made sure to mirror its national data to every other national server out there. this way even if a national server failed you could just query one of the others. the problem is that the computer would not know where to send the query. how do you build a decentralized lookup system that dont create a massive traffic overhead?
but realy, what i gather from SR is that the RTGs and LTGS act as both routing hubs and dns servers all rolled into one. and even if you take out the dns server you still have the underlying ip addresses to go to. and most computers these days dont query the main 13 ones much, they talk to a cacheing server set up by the local isp that keep a log of what people visit and the translation data. you would in fact need a sr crash to cripple the net by going after the main dns servers and you would have to burn all the data on them, take out the hardware to stall for time and then be ready to do it over and over as they try to bring backups online (or just burn the dns data on the severs, wait for backups to be installed and then burn the backups). this would have to happen coordinated on all 13 to realy have an effect and hope to hell that some big isp like aol didnt keep a slave server around in case something like this happend.
the SR setup is both tougher and more fragile in that only the RTG and its LTGs are dependent on it. all the rest will just fail to connect and then report that failure. but take out that one RTG and you have blown a hole in the matrix. the sr matrix is in some ways closer to the true idea of the arpanet, a series of interconnected systems where no one system was totaly dependent on any sentral system for its operation. yes you can take out part of it but the rest will still compute and communicate.
to truely make this happen in the net of today would involve setting up atleast one dns server in every contry that was a complete mirror of the 13 on top and that allso made sure to mirror its national data to every other national server out there. this way even if a national server failed you could just query one of the others. the problem is that the computer would not know where to send the query. how do you build a decentralized lookup system that dont create a massive traffic overhead?
tanka, for pete's sake. you're talking like maybe this whole computer thing, and that newfangled "Intarweb", aren't ever going to really take off. i don't know how old you are, but i remember what it was like ten years ago, when i was in high school. i seriously don't know how you can look at the past decade, and then say that the average person isn't becoming more computer literate. yes, there are still idiots. automobiles have been common for more than fifty years, and there are still people who can't drive. but today's idiots are light-years more computer literate than yesterday's idiots, and tomorrow's idiots will be even moreso. i'm not saying Joe Averave v2060 can troubleshoot his computer and find out why the hell he's got 500Mp of storage but no processor. i am saying that things like filesharing, downloading, email, and the like will be so prevalent by then that doing something as simple as checking the filesize of a download will be second nature.
OK, OK, so they'll check the file size! That doesn't mean they're immune to virii- see my above post, quoted for convenience.
| QUOTE | ||||
Fine, fine. Gray IC named 'completebeatles.zip', or 'pr0n feet latex 120min.avi.' It was only an offhand example. |
| QUOTE (Toptomcat) |
| Fine, fine. Gray IC named 'completebeatles.zip', or 'pr0n feet latex 120min.avi.' It was only an offhand example. |
That would completely suck. Imagine all those Black Ice masquerading as p0rn.
Imagine entering a porn site and having your head fried... Wait, that would be the point in going there wouldn't it?
as long as we're quoting ourselves:
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| i told you last time, honey, i charge extra if you want to stick it in my butt. |
...wait, no. wrong quote. i, uh, never even said that!
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| and grey IC is also illegal, Toptomcat. all IC is. so are worms. |
Doesn't really matter on the legality since the corps would just use disgruntled fanatics to code the viruses. But they don't proliferate them to prevent piracy, but rather to encourage sales of the daily updates to the Viral Protection Suite. Like today, many people simply reinstall everything after getting a virus and then go right back to the chatrooms for a second helping. Using IC is a waste since most users of sharenets won't be running hot ASIST anyway.
| QUOTE (mfb) | ||
as long as we're quoting ourselves:
|
Can I please have the original thread for this quote please..... I GOT MONEY!!! YOU HAVE TO GIVE IT TO ME!!!!!!!..... please
stay away from me! you're not the milkman!
| QUOTE (Toptomcat @ Dec 8 2004, 09:12 PM) | ||||||
OK, OK, so they'll check the file size! That doesn't mean they're immune to virii- see my above post, quoted for convenience.
|
It's still a bad example.
Since mfb feels the need to continue bashing his head against this particular wall, let me just state myself that 1) IC and virii are two different things, 2) Ever heard of virus detection? It's kind of a big industry ATM, and 3) your continued underestimation of the intelligence of your average Sixth Worlder makes me very, very glad I will never play in a game with you.
Your continued overestimation of the intelligence of people in any time will very likely one day land you in for a great disappointment.
~J
~J
My overestimation of the intelligence of people only applies to my SR games.
The fact that most people IRL are idiots is beyond dispute.
The fact that most people IRL are idiots is beyond dispute.
Have you ever worked tech support?
yes, for the past four years during my time in the army, and now as a job to build up my bank account before i head back to college. i deal with quite a few idiots. but--like i keep saying--the idiots i deal with are light-years ahead of the idiots i dealt with ten years ago, in high school.
crimson, consider the fact that most likely the same corp that makes the anti-virus stuff will be the corp that makes the virus in the first place to kill of pirates. not to hard then to have this brand fail to detect it somehow. isnt it nice to be paranoid?
| QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Dec 9 2004, 07:57 AM) |
| crimson, consider the fact that most likely the same corp that makes the anti-virus stuff will be the corp that makes the virus in the first place to kill of pirates. not to hard then to have this brand fail to detect it somehow. isnt it nice to be paranoid? |
Why would corporations be giving good virus code away, especially those that have an investment in AntiVirus? That's what deckers use as part of their utilities and other corporations that buy the software will NOT CONTINUE TO BUY THE PRODUCT if the most common viruses slip right past the scanner. That doesn't even make sense. You make viruses that it will stop to show how wonderful it is.
There is simply no evidence that littering sharenets with viruses will stop anyone from piracy considering the level of technology needed to crack the software to start with.
Well, I doubt it'd get quite so bad that you'd end up a simpering idiot while trying to haXXor the new Beatles album (They summoned them all for a new world tour, y'know. Magic rocks).
How many people are running hot ASIST while downloading illicit things? I'd imagine that most people would be running trodes at the very most, if not even tortoise mode.
Sure, they can frag your machine, but if you're doing it manually, with Cold ASIST, or Trodes, the worst they can do is maybe give you a headache.
Besides, if you don't think the (corporate-built) machines don't already come with spyware on them, I've got some beachfront property in Kansas to sell you, right next to my time machine and my perpetual motion device.
How many people are running hot ASIST while downloading illicit things? I'd imagine that most people would be running trodes at the very most, if not even tortoise mode.
Sure, they can frag your machine, but if you're doing it manually, with Cold ASIST, or Trodes, the worst they can do is maybe give you a headache.
Besides, if you don't think the (corporate-built) machines don't already come with spyware on them, I've got some beachfront property in Kansas to sell you, right next to my time machine and my perpetual motion device.
But even damaging your hardware from software is much more potent than what is possible now except on the most poorly-designed hardware.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| yes, for the past four years during my time in the army, and now as a job to build up my bank account before i head back to college. i deal with quite a few idiots. but--like i keep saying--the idiots i deal with are light-years ahead of the idiots i dealt with ten years ago, in high school. |
All new, improved idiocy! Now with extra zing!
-np
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Dec 9 2004, 10:52 AM) |
| But even damaging your hardware from software is much more potent than what is possible now except on the most poorly-designed hardware. |
People still smoke cigarettes and eat fast food despite the risks involved for the meager benefits. They speed, download illegal software, and commit crimes constantly, all despite legal ramifications, viruses, and horrible, disfiguring accidents.
I tend to think 2060's people rent most of their computers anyway, so destroying hardware would be counter productive to profits in recycling.
[edit]
Let me put it this way, some script kiddie gets his hands on an infected MP3 and then, not knowing it's infected, hops over to a chatroom to brag by playing the song for thousands (or even millions) of kids around the globe, many of whom are residents of megacorps, using megacorp computers in their little megacorp playbicles.
indeed. and, especially in light of the Crash virus, no corp is going to stand for crap like that. any corp that did such a thing isn't going to be a corp for much longer.
| QUOTE (John Campbell @ Dec 9 2004, 01:32 AM) |
| Have you ever worked tech support? |
Not for pay. But since when has working in a specific field been a prerequesite to think everyone else is a moron?
| QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
| crimson, consider the fact that most likely the same corp that makes the anti-virus stuff will be the corp that makes the virus in the first place to kill of pirates. not to hard then to have this brand fail to detect it somehow. isnt it nice to be paranoid? |
Hm, I can see it now (or rather, pre-2060)...
Fuchi's anti-virus software is full of bugs/holes/etc. Buy Renraku!
Vice-versa.
Now, then. Seriously...
So now the chat is on how stupid people are. Hmm...
I like Lacemaker's point. Waaay back when, Back Orifice was a terrific program, not well known, and hard to get your hands on. Now you can google it and dl it for free. That's in part because every virus blocker in the world will recognize it, so it's really not very useful. When it was made, it was rating 6, but because it's become too popular, it's become level 1 or 2. The rating doesn't just represent how technologically complex it is, but rather how well known it is by security personnel (and how well known the vulnerabilities it exploits are). You're paying for secrecy and working on solid research.
With all these hidden bugs, apparently the matrix is run by M$
I like Lacemaker's point. Waaay back when, Back Orifice was a terrific program, not well known, and hard to get your hands on. Now you can google it and dl it for free. That's in part because every virus blocker in the world will recognize it, so it's really not very useful. When it was made, it was rating 6, but because it's become too popular, it's become level 1 or 2. The rating doesn't just represent how technologically complex it is, but rather how well known it is by security personnel (and how well known the vulnerabilities it exploits are). You're paying for secrecy and working on solid research.
With all these hidden bugs, apparently the matrix is run by M$
| QUOTE |
| With all these hidden bugs, apparently the matrix is run by M$ |
Consider that we have hundreds of new programs created and interacting on a hog pog of operating systems with ever altering simsense applications yearly. Safety comes from sacrificing capabilities, and, for most of the Matrix, the capabilities approach infinite.
| QUOTE |
| The rating doesn't just represent how technologically complex it is, but rather how well known it is by security personnel (and how well known the vulnerabilities it exploits are). You're paying for secrecy and working on solid research. |
100% agree.
funny then that rating is the thing that signals how hard it is to program the software. maybe it comes from the fact that you have to write it all from ground up rather then write yet a nother "swen" clone?
That's a good way of explaining that too. The only part that doesn't entirely jibe with it is the difference in program size.
~J
~J
well, older security exploits are, uh, smaller. yeah, that's it. smaller.
hmm, that made me wonder, when sota kicks in do the programs size become magicaly smaller?
Nah, it's just the capacity of the MP that increases. :mesofunny:
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| well, older security exploits are, uh, smaller. yeah, that's it. smaller. |
They're simply more streamlined : )
Seriously though, the Excalibur is still the best deck even though it was introduced back in SR1, right? And I don't believe its stats have changed at all.
I guess you could say memory size is a totally different paradigm then it is now. Right now, it's like a book, how many pages the book has is how much data it can store. Perhaps physical space isn't a question any more, rather it has to do with the capabilities of the computer its run on, and how well the computer can use that information? So 20 MP for a current computer is 40 MP for an older one, because it's related to clock speed or something?
I know, it's only a half formed thought, and probably not one that'll be productive. Trying to compare SR computer tech to present tech is a futile effort.
yeah, but an excalibur bought in 2049 isn't going to be the same machine as an excalibur bought in 2064. the 2064 version will have more advanced parts, later versions of firmware, etcetera.
Indeed. As a parallel, Compaq has been coming out with new models of the Presario series for over 15 years now, but you can damn well bet the 486 SX2-66 Presario I've got on a shelf downstairs isn't anywhere near as fast as one of today's models. The Excalibar just represents a general price range of machine; that is, the most expensive.
the cray of cyberdecks if you will...
I'm trying to relearn shadowrun, I've played it many years ago, and now am trying to form my own group. however I was reading this thread and then was reading through the SR3 rulebook and couldn't help notice pg 295. Under the section 'skillsofts and chips' it states that:
"Programs on OCCs may be copied into memory (computer, headware and so on), but any copies made after that are corrupted. Essentially, a copyright protection mechanism is built into the chip so that copies of the program may be made from the chip itself, but any second-generation copies are worthless."
However if you read further under the source and object code it states:
"A charcacter must have the source code of a program to copy, upgrade, or modify the program. Object-code copies of programs cannot be used to change a program. Likewise, copies of programs can only bne made and given to others if the origional source code is used to make the object code copies. Certain software pirates have discovered methods of "cracking" OCCs and object code in order to copy software, but they keep their secrects close to their chests."
So by my understanding (and this may not mean a whole lot) Is that software piracy is possible but is much more complicated then by todays standard. If someone else would be willing to check this out and tell me if I'm missing something I would like to know.
"Programs on OCCs may be copied into memory (computer, headware and so on), but any copies made after that are corrupted. Essentially, a copyright protection mechanism is built into the chip so that copies of the program may be made from the chip itself, but any second-generation copies are worthless."
However if you read further under the source and object code it states:
"A charcacter must have the source code of a program to copy, upgrade, or modify the program. Object-code copies of programs cannot be used to change a program. Likewise, copies of programs can only bne made and given to others if the origional source code is used to make the object code copies. Certain software pirates have discovered methods of "cracking" OCCs and object code in order to copy software, but they keep their secrects close to their chests."
So by my understanding (and this may not mean a whole lot) Is that software piracy is possible but is much more complicated then by todays standard. If someone else would be willing to check this out and tell me if I'm missing something I would like to know.
one reason for the closed mouth tactic of the pirates is in my view the freedom the megacorps have when it comes to takeing them down. most likely its put on the same level as bigtime drug dealing or similar...
but basicly sr (like most other sci-fi rogs) skip the details when it comes to computers so as to make the game more available to the non-geeks. this is understandable.
like i have stated earlyer in the post, copyprotection realy needs to be a layerd system. first you make it hard to actualy do the copying without specialist tools. then you make said tools hard/illegal to get without a licence of some sort. then you have drachonian (sp?) laws against pirateing. the point is to make it hard for the general public to do, thereby makeing the target population smaller. then you hit said population hard for any actions you dont like. very soon your best source of pirated goods are shadowland or similar, run by people that have gone so deep underground that they ship their goods via 3+ layers of dealers (not so far from how drug dealers work) that most of the time will prefer to deal face to face then over a computer connection (how the hell do you know who is behind a icon?).
just like some drugs can be made by a kid with a bit of knowhow about chemicals, so can one pirate with a bit of knowhow in computers (unlike now where anyone with a connection and a burner can get his hands on a iso). point is to have it so troublesome that you have to know what you are doing to get it right, and allso needs the will to do it as the risks are higher then today (10+ years in a max sec prison for copying the latest from metallica anyone?).
as for the p2p networks, given that megacorps are their own police now and have all the telecoms by the family jewels i would say that its kinda like the great firewall of china. all traffic monitored. and given that every jackpoint have a id code you have to set up a illegal jackpoint to get a p2p system up while in the clear. and if they still manage to trace you then you just added another count to your trail. say hello to bubba from me...
basicly, pirateing in sr inst a kids game any more!
but basicly sr (like most other sci-fi rogs) skip the details when it comes to computers so as to make the game more available to the non-geeks. this is understandable.
like i have stated earlyer in the post, copyprotection realy needs to be a layerd system. first you make it hard to actualy do the copying without specialist tools. then you make said tools hard/illegal to get without a licence of some sort. then you have drachonian (sp?) laws against pirateing. the point is to make it hard for the general public to do, thereby makeing the target population smaller. then you hit said population hard for any actions you dont like. very soon your best source of pirated goods are shadowland or similar, run by people that have gone so deep underground that they ship their goods via 3+ layers of dealers (not so far from how drug dealers work) that most of the time will prefer to deal face to face then over a computer connection (how the hell do you know who is behind a icon?).
just like some drugs can be made by a kid with a bit of knowhow about chemicals, so can one pirate with a bit of knowhow in computers (unlike now where anyone with a connection and a burner can get his hands on a iso). point is to have it so troublesome that you have to know what you are doing to get it right, and allso needs the will to do it as the risks are higher then today (10+ years in a max sec prison for copying the latest from metallica anyone?).
as for the p2p networks, given that megacorps are their own police now and have all the telecoms by the family jewels i would say that its kinda like the great firewall of china. all traffic monitored. and given that every jackpoint have a id code you have to set up a illegal jackpoint to get a p2p system up while in the clear. and if they still manage to trace you then you just added another count to your trail. say hello to bubba from me...
basicly, pirateing in sr inst a kids game any more!
| QUOTE |
| all traffic monitored. |
No it's not. A huge portion of the world telecommutes in Shadowrun using the equvilant of VPN and there is no way in hell businesses will allow the grid operators (who are controlled by the STATE not the megacorps) to monitor their transmissions. Nor are they going to allow any monitoring outside of megacorporate PLTGs. Megacorps don't have the technology to monitor the grid either, except perhaps Saeder-Krupp and that's pretty clearly stated (not to mention SECRET).
GOD is controlled by the Corporate Court, not the state.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Dec 17 2004, 10:37 AM) |
| GOD is controlled by the Corporate Court, not the state. |
You know it's funny, I hear a lot about Grid Overwatch Division, but they don't have the right to monitor the Grid communications either. Seattle pays Lone Star to respond to Matrix crimes on their LTG. All tapping of datalines (which is the Grid) requires warrents.
sure they do. the state doesn't own the grid, corporations do--the phone companies.
| QUOTE (mfb @ Dec 17 2004, 10:53 AM) |
| sure they do. the state doesn't own the grid, corporations do--the phone companies. |
Which are contractors of the cities and states.
I give up. There's a mention in SotA64 that Lone Star can monitor Matrix communications without a warrant. I'll also not go on a huge rant about how no corporation would ever allow their telecommuters to be monitored and that telling the difference between telecommuters and others virtually on corporate hosts and everyone else without first hacking the datafeed. Or how that contradicts Dot6W and it's mention of how Saeder-Krupp can barely manage to montior traffic with their superl33t technology.
right. but as i recall, it says in the section on laws in Matrix that ma bell has jurisdiction on the grids.
Yeah, and exaclty which company is going to give their competitor the right to monitor their communications?
The grid control can also be transfered between companies, as well. Denver grid is controlled by Pueblo who rested control from Aztechnology during YotC. Which means that no one company has overwatch rights, but dozens to hundreds of them around the world can.
The grid control can also be transfered between companies, as well. Denver grid is controlled by Pueblo who rested control from Aztechnology during YotC. Which means that no one company has overwatch rights, but dozens to hundreds of them around the world can.
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