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Clutch9800
Hi,

It has recently been brought to my attention that the Commando Program has a bad "rep" in the Shadowrun Community.

The reasons for said poor rep (as expressed to me) were a poorly worded application procedure, and a lack of communication.

That said, I'd like to open a discussion to whomever may be interested on everything Commando.

If you have a question, comment, gripe, or atta-boy, please post it here and I'll address it.

Thanks,

Scott Taylor
FanPro LLC

P.S. If you'd like to take it to e-mail I can be reached at clutch9800@ec.rr.com
CoalHeart
FanPro Commando?

I seem to live under a rock and never heard of this.
Fortune
My main problem with the program (and the reason I haven't joined) is the requirement that every Commando must write a cohesive adventure to be submitted before his application is considered. While I have no problem running established adventures, and even creating my own, when it comes to actually putting them down in any kind of organized format I sadly lack the writing skills (or at least the confidence in the skills I have) required.

I don't think it is necessary to be an accomplished author in order to run pre-made games and demonstrate the Shadowrun system to newcomers. I have been doing this very thing for 15 years.
BitBasher
My problem with it is that in a nutshell prewriting a plot is a plan for destruction. Players can and will screw up your plot, then to stick to it you need to railroad them. That's bad gaming. Everythign I do in a game is freeform. I create a worls that the characters live in. It reacts to them, they react to it. Therefore I'm pretty well excluded.
bitrunner
the writing requirement does a couple of things...

first, it weeds out those that aren't really committed to the program. if you aren't willing to take the time to write up an adventure, then how can the program depend on you to put time into other ventures...

second, it tests a couple of things - your overall game knowledge of both the universe/feel and the mechanics; your ability to come up with a balanced encounter (ie you aren't having archetype characters out of the basic book trying to kill Lofwyr); your ability to organize your thoughts in something that others can make sense out of (for example, the adventure format that is used in published SR adventures).

Clutch is not looking for a Harlequin's Back adventure, or even one that has perfect grammar (although you should at least run it through a basic spell checker!). It should be something that could feasibly be run during a couple of hours at a game store or convention demo. If you already do this - what are you using?? if you wrote something up, with fleshed out, balanced NPCs, encounters, etc, then you could submit it...

You can certainly look at the ones that are being used in the Shadowrun Missions campaign - they are good examples to take a look at...

BitBasher
QUOTE
first, it weeds out those that aren't really committed to the program. if you aren't willing to take the time to write up an adventure, then how can the program depend on you to put time into other ventures...
Because some people don't ever write anything down. Ever. A plan is just a list of things that just don't happen. Writing things down is the opposite of the way I think a game should be run.

I see this as a no win situation. It's a program that asks for volunteers to spread the word about SR, which is cool. It then asks these volunteers to do far more work than they would normally do for a game to earn the right to donate their time to an official program. Kind of antithetical to the ideals of a volunteer program if you ask me.

But, on the other side of the coin there really needs to be some quality control over the content to make sure that new people introduced dont get a fractured or just plain bad game.

It's kind of a catch-22 IMHO. I don't have a good soloution. This crops up in any volunteer program I've been involved with. I do see your point, and I don;t disagree with it. I do think the project is a good idea on paper.

That being said I try to spread the SR love regardless of my belonging to any program. I've converted a number of folks.

[edit]In fact, the only run I have ever written down was an after the fact thing, and I guess it turned out pretty well, because it periodically pops back up and gets reposted when talking about horror threads. It was the "little girl run
", but it wasn't structured like a normal shadowrun.
GrinderTheTroll
I've honestly never heard of the Commando program, but I tend to not write things down either. Maybe an occasional complex Matrix system or draw out a building and other things that require the detail to be available, but the ideas are in my head and for me something gets lost in the translation to paper.

Sounds like a neat idea though.
the_dunner
So, for those people posting that they don't know anything at all about the Commando program, it's probably worth a glance at the website here. There's information on the program there, a list of program members, and a listing of scheduled events.

As far as writing up an event goes. Like bitrunner said, it's a test of dedication. At the same time, it's a pretty easy test. Anybody that regularly posts on these forums is writing more on a daily basis than they'd need to do to pump out such an adventure. (Think about it. All that's required is a quick demo scenario, something that can be run quickly for new players. Concise writing can fit that into three or four pages.) Sure, it'd rock if somebody wanted to write up a Shadowrun:Missions adventure for their Commando entry, but that's more than the application indicates is needed.

I don't want to get into an extensive adventure design discussion, but I've been GMing for more than 25 years. (God I'm old.) I spent a great deal of that time always running things free-form. Now, I go into sessions with an outline. (1/2 to a full page) I've found that it's a lot easier to hit key subplots (even as incidental encounters) if I've got an outline. With an outline in hand, it's really not a big deal to expand that out into a scenario.

Finally, calling the Commando program a volunteer program is a bit of a misnomer. They are compensated with Fanpro product. Yes, members are donating their time and efforts to promote Fanpro products. However, they do get more back than just a "Thank you."
Fortune
Give me an exam on Shadowrun. I guarantee I'll ace it!

I've been GMing role-playing games of all kinds since the mid-seventies. Like BitBasher though, I rarely flesh out my ideas beforehand any more than necessary, prefering instead to react to what the characters are actually doing in the game as opposed to railroading them through my personal novel.

Even if that weren't the case, there are more than enough pre-made scenarios out there that are perfectly adequate for demonstrating Shadowrun to newcomers. The need to demonstrate one's writing or creative skills in order to run one of those is what I question.
Jrayjoker
I am strongly considering this, but I have 3 kids all under 4 years and little free time. The biggest drawback is the 6 events a year.
bitrunner
as i mentioned...you're not being graded on your writing skills or creativity...you don't have to have a degree in Creative Writing to do this...

adventures don't have to be detailed out in minute detail either - there is no reason to write a "personal novel" ... in fact, some of the SRM adventures are written with nothing but a given scenario - here is a complex, here is the objective, here are a couple of examples of how i think the runners will react, and what will happen under those circumstances. you can't anticipate everything, but the adventure has the setting described so that the GM can react to what the players/characters do. just because something is written in an adventure doesn't mean the characters will do that - or that you are restricted to those scenarios and have to lead them by the nose for it...

as for your record, i do not doubt it, but i've heard it before from people and sat at tables at gencon where the GM was running an independent game that he'd written, and supposedly he was an experienced GM as well. One adventure had people moving about with wings and purple fur on Mars, another had some alien dudes with big plasma cannons walking through the center of Seattle...while both knew the rules to the game, they had very warped concepts of the game-verse and what Shadowrun is all about. Now, of course, that alone could spark a hundred threads (and has), but i'm talking about running a Shadowrun game for new players, like you would as a Commando, not something you would do with your home group or as an experiment. For new players, you should be doing a standard shadowrun - a little legwork, a little planning, working the contacts, and then executing your plan and doing the shadowrun...

and writing the adventure doesn't mean that it will ever be used by you or anyone...unless the candidate is specifically writing it for SR Missions, no one but Clutch (and possibly Rob) see what is submitted. but we're always looking for improvement...sure, there are adventures out there for newbies, but we're always looking for something better, or at least new and fresh...

i'm really surprised that some of you are taking the attitude you are...i have seen many of you display your knowledge of the game here on the boards...i, for one, would like to see what you come up with for your players that keeps them in the game and coming back for more...send me your stuff, even if it's nothing but an outline - i'll flesh it out into an adventure and use it somewhere! smile.gif
bitrunner
Jray -

you've answered your own question then...

the program isn't for everyone - if you don't have the free time and need to spend time with your family, then by all means that should come first...when they're older, come back and reexamine the issue...we have Commandos all the time that take a hiatus for family reasons...

Also, keep in mind that an event is an individual SR game...if you go to a convention and run a game on Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and you bring in players each time, that counts as 3 events...most people have a convention that is within a couple hours drive at least once per year...even without that, we're talking going to a gaming store once every two months (on average) and running a table for an afternoon (about 4-6 hours). i was doing that much before i became a Commando...

i'll throw out there that recent changes in the program allow for those that write a SR Missions adventure to choose to have that count as 2 events... wink.gif
Wireknight
If you can't write down a plot summary, scene outlines, NPC stats, and other basic framework aspects of a run, something is wrong. I know as well as the next guy how to improvise, but there's a fine line between improvisation-driven roleplay and just being too lazy to put things to paper.

No matter how my PCs have acted, what has been done during the mission, etc..., my combat NPC is still going to have Wired Reflexes, the main villain is still going to be hiding out from the runners in his safehouse in Renton, and Lone Star is still going to respond to disturbances with a pair of drones and patrolmen. While some things change based on actions and their outcomes, some are immutable.

NPC statistics are a good example. It's unfair(and usually obvious to the players) when you're just generating an NPC's stats entirely as situations advance, having them have a skill at two seperate levels in two seperate encounters because they didn't stack up well in the last one. Having a well-considered Dramatis Pesonae section put to paper prevents that sort of thing from having to happen.

When you have an outline, you can still improvise when the need arises, without resorting to railroading. When you have no outline, you have no choice but to improvise. I like to have the choice.
Fortune
In what way did I imply that I made up every single thing on the fly? When did I state that I didn't make (major) NPCs beforehand? ohplease.gif

Writing a scenario is much more than jotting down the stats of the opposition. If that's all that is required, I could write 50 scenarios in the next 6 minutes.
iPad
Its odd, I would love to write adventures, but couldnt really GM 6 shows a year. I dont know if there are 6 rpg shows in the uk a year.
Fortune
You are not limited to Conventions. For example, running games for newbies in a local gaming store or on a school campus also qualify.
iPad
Ah I see, its like Reaper figs 'Black Lightning' lot.

I worked for GW for 3 years which invovled demonstrating alot of games, but I dont want to get back into that right now.
Jrayjoker
I completely understand the limits and requirements, and I have made my choice for my circumstance. I was just letting you know my particulars.

I do plan on signing up later (a few years) if it is still around. I love introducing people to SR and roleplaying in general.
Ecclesiastes
Seeing this today prompted me to want to join up. I already started working on the mission I plan to submit. I GMed at GenCon SoCal this year and had a blast. I'd love to get more involved with things.
RedmondLarry
Ecclesiastes, I played in a couple of your games at GenCon SoCal. You'd be a good Commando, introducing new people to the game. Good luck.
Ecclesiastes
Thanks OurTeam. smile.gif
The White Dwarf
Problem I have with it is twofold.

1) It requires you to run events at some external place, which is in fact the basis of the program. It can be extremly difficult to a place that supports this, and in turn players to go. Its possibly to run at a con, but that requires driving, money, time (days off work) etc etc. Its just not feasible.

2) It didnt seem to have well defined outlines (at least at the time I checked) such as a style sheet. I would have trouble feeling confident about writing or running adventures for something with little guidelines other than your own personal interpretation of the world. Some uniformity is neccessary given the whole concenpt of introducing people into the world in 1-off type situations to make that experience transferrable.

Im not really sure how to address those two, but a listing of participating cons (such as "we will have commando spots available here at a booth at xyz cons) and a style or example section might help. Just some thoughts.
Clutch9800
QUOTE (BitBasher)
QUOTE

I see this as a no win situation. It's a program that asks for volunteers to spread the word about SR, which is cool. It then asks these volunteers to do far more work than they would normally do for a game to earn the right to donate their time to an official program. Kind of antithetical to the ideals of a volunteer program if you ask me.

It's kind of a catch-22 IMHO. I don't have a good soloution. This crops up in any volunteer program I've been involved with. I do see your point, and I don;t disagree with it. I do think the project is a good idea on paper.

Well,

Lets define the concept of "Volunteer" here. Yes the Commandos "volunteer" for the program. (We don't have Commando Press Gangs, although we're working on them.)

But that's where the term "Volunteer" ends. Once in the program, the Commandos are compensated for the time they spend promoting the game in stores or at conventions. Compensated pretty darn well I might add.

The vast majority of Commandos never pay for another sourcebook, they get them gratis from FanPro by exchanging credits that they earn as Commandos. So, while they are spending time playing and demonstrating Shadowrun, they aren't exactly "donating" it.

Clutch
Fortune
Maybe a seperate level of Commando might be useful (Fixer?). Rather than being compensated for demonstrations, they could merely be on-hand locally for rules adjudication and refereeing SRM.
Clutch9800
QUOTE (Fortune)
Maybe a seperate level of Commando might be useful (Fixer?). Rather than being compensated for demonstrations, they could merely be on-hand locally for rules adjudication and refereeing SRM.

We already count tournament ref-ing as an event, so it's covered.

Clutch
Fortune
Not to be a dick, but that is not what I meant! I was more refering to being on hand locally for all that out-of-game GM bookkeeping stuff that can only be done by an official SRM representative. As they wouldn't actually be GMing games, the compensation part is moot.
bitrunner
keep in mind that the two programs are separate...

SR Missions is the official 'living' campaign for the Shadowrun universe, sponsored by FanPro...

The Commando program is the official outrider/demo team program sponsored by FanPro...

As such, there are SR Commandos that are not involved, or only tangentially involved, with SR Missions - they write/run their own adventures at conventions and store demos.

Also, there are WAY more people out there GMing events for SRM that are not Commandos - they receive nothing but my (and hopefully the players) humble thanks for all their hard work.

The SR Missions campaign cannot be successfully run (in my opinion) without some kind of staff at a more local level - as such, I've worked with Clutch to 'deputize' the SR Commandos (those that wish to become involved) and empowered them to act as my agents in the field. They are allowed to make final rulings for situations at conventions or other large events where SRM events are running. They are also free to volunteer to be "Avatars" for those that want to create their own magic group. They can do as little or as much as they want to support the campaign. If all they want to do is run events at a convention or game store, then they get credit for that. As for anything else, such as sponsoring an initiation group, i really don't see where that would take up a lot of time, unless they are really into it - like creating a website for the group, etc. An hour or so every month should easily take care of anything that comes up - surely people spend that much time reading the DSF! wink.gif

Commandos work for Clutch, not me - but many Commandos work with me to help make SR Missions the best it can be...

just wanted to clear that up that the two programs, while they work closely together, are two separate entities...
draco aardvark
When I read about the commando program last year, I thought "wow, that sounds cool, too bad I've never seen a demo day of any sort to participate in, let alone GM."

My "local game store" doesn't even have tables or shadowrun books (oddly enough, they do have an Earthdawn book). The only convention that I know of that was in the area which was remotely related to RPG's was an Anime Con.

I'd be interested in joining if I thought I could actually run one game a year. Where can I find out about less "local" game stores which might have tables/SR stuff? Where can I find out about conventions? I hear about all sorts of conventions in New York and california, but nothing local. Is Pittsburgh just too small to have this, or am I just oblivious to a hidden 'underworld' of RPG's?
Zolhex
Not that this can be done in every city in every state but.......

I used to play rpg's and mtg at the local IHOP on tuesdays it was a dead night for them.

So a deal was worked out that we would come in around 4 ro5 pm and stay 4 to 6 hours.

IHOP's end we get the space our end we order drinks and something to eat even if all each person ordered was fries for 2 bucks that was enough.

We bought stuff the store made money on a night where business was slow so find a place 24 hour ones tend to be the best.

Next talk to a manager about what night or nights are slow business days and say your willing to bring people in so long as the managment is willing to provied the space and service.

Also the management can assing the group a member of the staff but that member of staff can work other tables with no problem cause admit it when we get playing we get to involved most of the time to really care about service.

Sit in the back of the restruant keep it quiet order some food and drinks and the profits look better to corperate thus the management looks better thus everyone is happy.

Oh yeah remember to tip the staff serving you well eveyone tosses in a buck then staff will have no problem keeping filled up on those refills lol.
Paul
I had no idea the Commando program had any bad rap-it sounds boring and kind of silly to alot of people I know, but beyond that most of the players I know don't care much one way or the other.

I can't honestly say I have ever heard much about it. Shrugs I don't know enough about it to make a serious opinion.
bitrunner
Well, I know that Clutch and Rob would do everything they could to help a Commando find a gaming store that would let them run demo games, as well as carry product - that also happens to be one of the duties of the Commando, to periodically visit their local gaming store and make sure they are up-to-date with SR products and help them move those products. Commandos are there to bring new people into the game, and keep the established players as well. as with any other outrider program, one of the functions it serves is as a marketing arm of the company...

as for Pittsburgh cons, try doing a simple Google search - i found:
Pittsburgh Comicon (April 22-24) (has gaming)
Gasp-Con (was held in Oct 2004)
Coscon (March 11-13) in Butler, just north of you...looks very good

so there's three cons for you that have occured or are about to occur in your area...google is your friend...

by going to the Commando site (www.commandohq.com), you can go to the Venues area and even find that Commandos are welcome at Game Masters, 3439 Babcock Blvd., Pittsburgh (North Hills), PA 15237. The Battletech guys have a Commando in place there already (Robert Jackson) who I'm sure would be happy to help get Shadowrun events started if someone is willing to GM (or even become a SR Commando).

And if you're willing to do a little travel for a con on a weekend, i'm sure there is something in the Cleveland area, which is also home of the infamous "Bull"...

so, no offense, but yeah, i think you've been hiding from the Pittsburgh area cons...

btw, consider being a SR Commando - i'd like to see a pin in Pittsburgh!
Master Shake
A Shadowrun Pyramid Scheme? I will tastefully refrain from any Big A jokes. Perhaps if you called them 'ninja's' you would get more takers. But I guess that even FanPro can't call a bunch of pasty nerds 'ninja's' with a straight face. Maybe if Shadowrun got back to the focus on developing big, balls-out visionary plot lines to fertilize the game-verse (nice) instead of the vanilla, visionless pandering that is killing Shadowrun, FanPro could actually give that shit away.

Give my regards to Lou Prosperi biggrin.gif
mfb
it's one of those things i keep meaning to look into. the fact that you get free gaming stuff in exchange for running games sounds pretty good, though. it's like being paid to drive nice cars around town, except lots less likely to get you laid.
Ecclesiastes
Are there any Commandos in Orange County? I know the Grendel has San Diego covered. I'm very interested in getting involved (already started doing some writing for my mission) and was wondering if there are others near me.

And yeah... the free and discounted goods is a motivator for me, cause over the last year or two my spending money has been lacking for stuff. Thank God I got to playtest some stuff and get copies of that, plus GMing or helping the booth as GenCon SoCal helped my collection a bit too.

But really, I just love the game and think it would be great to help get it out there and known.
Clutch9800
QUOTE (Master Shake)
A Shadowrun Pyramid Scheme? I will tastefully refrain from any Big A jokes. Perhaps if you called them 'ninja's' you would get more takers. But I guess that even FanPro can't call a bunch of pasty nerds 'ninja's' with a straight face. Maybe if Shadowrun got back to the focus on developing big, balls-out visionary plot lines to fertilize the game-verse (nice) instead of the vanilla, visionless pandering that is killing Shadowrun, FanPro could actually give that shit away.

Give my regards to Lou Prosperi biggrin.gif

Can you feeeelll the lovvvvve tonight? love.gif

Clutch
Clutch9800
QUOTE (Ecclesiastes)
Are there any Commandos in Orange County? I know the Grendel has San Diego covered. I'm very interested in getting involved (already started doing some writing for my mission) and was wondering if there are others near me.

And yeah... the free and discounted goods is a motivator for me, cause over the last year or two my spending money has been lacking for stuff. Thank God I got to playtest some stuff and get copies of that, plus GMing or helping the booth as GenCon SoCal helped my collection a bit too.

But really, I just love the game and think it would be great to help get it out there and known.

Nope,

No SR Commandos in Orange County.

It's wide open!

Clutch
bitrunner
QUOTE (Master Shake)
Maybe if Shadowrun got back to the focus on developing big, balls-out visionary plot lines to fertilize the game-verse (nice) instead of the vanilla, visionless pandering that is killing Shadowrun, FanPro could actually give that shit away.

could you be a little more specific??? some examples???

for the most part, most of the people i've talked to over the years have hated the megaplot stuff that FASA and FanPro had come up with - All the stuff surrounding Dunkelzahn and the Horrors, Immortal Elves, the Comet, etc - all big time adventures...everyone seems to want plotlines that are more "street level" - a good old fashioned corp war or something similar - something that Joe Runner can take a part in...that is what i'm seeing in FanPro's push for the future and the products they have been releasing are supporting this more and more. It is also what we're doing with SR Missions...

so what to you makes a big, balls-out visionary plot line?? what is visionless pandering??

just interested...
Fortune
Give me more Metaplot!

I am perfectly capable of doing my own 'street level' stuff.
Synner
QUOTE (bitrunner)
QUOTE (Master Shake @ Dec 24 2004, 01:37 AM)
Maybe if Shadowrun got back to the focus on developing big, balls-out visionary plot lines to fertilize the game-verse (nice) instead of the vanilla, visionless pandering that is killing Shadowrun, FanPro could actually give that shit away.

could you be a little more specific??? some examples???

Nah. Why would the writers want anything like constuctive, objective and useful criticism, when they can have no nonsense negative feedback? sarcastic.gif
mfb
big, balls-out visionary plotlines--the kind that railroad campaigns and limit options--are really more of a white wolf thing.
The White Dwarf
There needs to be a certain level of meta plot. Very big time npcs have been added to the world, they dont just sit idle. Without some over-arching plot lines at least hinted or skirted, the world would degernerate into an uncohesive mess. We probably dont need a source book and adventure set based on meta-plot, but hints and pieces and those 'adventure hook idea' things involving parts of it, surely useful.

Street level material gets rather uninteresting. Anyone playing the game awhile has been there run that. I dont need an adventure set based around a gang war or some company mans messed up job he hires us to fix.

Id like to see stuff more in the middle. Runs that are big enough to make the shadow community take notice, and involve some major players, but not the top. Like instead of involving Dues, just invovle Renraku Red Samuri. But somewhere in the background, drop some hints of what Deus is up to for enterprising gms to use.

Runners should forever be struggling to stay above the masses but at the same time struggling to escape the notice of the top; like some kinda cockroach whos willing to venture out enough to get more food than his peers but not so far to get squished.
bitrunner
QUOTE (The White Dwarf)
Runners should forever be struggling to stay above the masses but at the same time struggling to escape the notice of the top; like some kinda cockroach whos willing to venture out enough to get more food than his peers but not so far to get squished.

oooo, i like that... biggrin.gif
Master Shake
Nobody spends $20 on a book so they can play a cockroach. That's been the business plan for the monkey's running Shadowrun - how's that been working out for you?

Here's the free advice: conflict is the essence of drama. Why people play, why people are interested in the game, why people buy overproced books - action. There are better ways of spending time and money, so if you want people to play this game and pay for your kids college tuition, you better make this shit as big and interesting as your little minds can. That's the way Shadowrun used to be, you know, when it was good and people wanted to buy this stuff. This vanilla, limp-wristed crap of trying to pander to cynical old timers isn't attracting new players and its suffocating the 'game-verse.' Harlequin, Harlequin's back, Queen Euphoria, Universal Brotherhood, Bug City, Mercurial, even Survival of the Fittest - what do they have in common? Are those dumpsterdiving adventures? Shadowrun has built up a world with interesting characters, SO USE them. Killing them off works too. Shadowrun was at its best when it was Dramatic with a capital 'D.' Blow another city up, kill another great dragon, blow up the Zurich-Orbital, let Aztechnology be evil, let the AI's take over the matrix, let's see some real organized crime, let's see Ryumyo blow up the entire ring of fire, let's see Verjigorm eating dragons, let's see some more Harlequin considering he's the best character Shadowrun's produced. Get some fucking balls while you're still collecting a pay check for work you clearly aren't doing well.

For a 6 figure salary and power as head of Shadowrun development, I will double sales within a year from when my products first come on-line. The first thing I would do is hire Ancient History to answer my phones, then I'd fire the lot of you because you're worthless.

Merry Christmas Sucka's biggrin.gif

Club
QUOTE (Master Shake @ Dec 27 2004, 12:14 AM)

For a 6 figure salary and power as head of Shadowrun development, I will double sales within a year from when my products first come on-line. The first thing I would do is hire Ancient History to answer my phones, then I'd fire the lot of you because you're worthless.

If that was a joke, it made me laugh.

If it wasn't, might I suggest you get your ego deflated?





I've thought of becoming a commando, and might be able to write a coherant mission, but the 6 events a year is too high for me. I might be able to manage 3 demos a year, if having players counts.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (bitrunner)
everyone seems to want plotlines that are more "street level" - a good old fashioned corp war or something similar

Woah woah woah woah woah. Where the hell do you get off saying a corp war is "street-level"?

And I'm going with Fortune on this.

Shake: it's a dangerous thing to mix commentary and humor.

~J
bitrunner
a corp war is "street level" more than jaunting around with Harlequin or having tea with Lofwyr. the corp war is merely the backdrop setting, and yes, that itself is big in scope, depending on the corps involved. but the war is going to be fought "in the trenches" and will consist of the meat-and-potatoes sort of runs that many of us feel is what shadowrun is all about - swiping a prototype, doing an extraction, etc...i'm not necessarily saying that the runners are nothing more than a step above some go-gang here - just that they're a few levels lower than taking out Zurich Orbital or sparring with Ryan Mercury...i prefer the old adventures like Eye Witness, and my FAVORITE - Silver Angel...

As for events for the Commando program, I'll point out that writing an adventure for Shadowrun Missions can count as TWO events of your six for the year...Club, if you write an adventure and do your 3 store demos, that's 5 events! if you really push it on one of your demo days, and run two demos, then you're covered!
Paul
I'm sure this will get me drawn and quartered but what the hell? I don't mind.

What exactly were you guys hoping to accomplish with this thread? I'm a pretty open minded guy, who loves Shadowrun and wants to give it all a fair chance (Yes I said it was silly, but I did temper my remarks with my acknowledgement of my ignorance at the time.) but this has to be one of the most useless threads I've ever seen.

This is like taking your baby and putting it on the porch in a rain storm. Someone's going to throw mud at it. When you defend your baby (Because we all jump up to protect our babies.), you're going to be pegged as over protective, and as "coming down" on the fans.

The people who hate this, won't suddenly like it any more. This thread isn't very likely to change any minds-its just not that inspiring really. People who like it will still like it. Its the inbetweens you're looking to capture the attention of.

I think this is a poor way of doing it. You're supposed to be the professionals here. You know your work is good, why debate it pubicly? that just invites a completely uncontrolable thread, that's easily derailed.

If I were you guys I would have started differently. No thread. I'd have took the top 10 or so posters here, people you know are here and reading stuff, and replying. And then I'd take the top 10 quality people you know-people who really represent the best the community has to offer-if I were doing this I would choose five: DV8, 3278, Doc Funkenstein or whatever name he is using these days, Arcanum V, and Adam-and ask them in private, via email or PM for input.

Then I'd have created a thread-a guided thread that asked for suggestions, and not just an open thread that can be hijacked my mouthy cocky suckers like me. smile.gif

I'll be honest, it seems to me like the Commando program, TSS, the Official Page, and basically Fan Pro doesn't coordinate every thing well. It seems, to me, like you guys are all on different programs. And really I don't think you all should be. (I admit easily that may not be possible, or that my view could be wrong.)

The Commando program doesn't offer me much in the incentive to do the work you guys want. (Especially with that whole code of conduct thing. Yeah right.) Bitrunners comments about how to work the system made me laugh. I liked Fortunes idea of various grades of Commando.
Deacon
Getting back to the point...

Writing a scenario for the commandos is not that hard. As has been said before, if you post here with any sort of frequency, you're probably putting out the kind of effort needed to write a scenario. Doesn't need to be something spectacular, with a timetable and all; in fact, it can be something as simple as a single encounter in a shadowrun, or a combat.

You said you write down your major NPCs? Then by all means, put them into the scenario! NPC stat blocks take up lots of space; you can flesh out a scenario wonderfully by creating four or five different NPC types, from the dwarf squatter to the troll rigger to the Tir Paladin to the Humanis member.

The plot doesn't have to be intricately detailed; take a look at the plot concepts from Mr. Johnson's Little Black Book for examples. What you need to write down is a little backstory (enough to explain why people are going to act like they should; what their motivation is in this scenario), the aim of the scenario (is it a negotiation that's intended to go wrong, is it a gang war the runners stumble across, what?), and a very general outline of what is expected to happen. If the runners happen to stray from this (they snuck around the gang war when they should have gone through the firefight), this ain't your fault.

Add stat blocks and possibly some extras (like legwork tables, what might the runners know about Mr. Johnson, or what that dwarf squatter knows that can help the runners on their way), and send it off -- and you're done! If you write slow like I do, this whole process should take you 4-6 hours in total, and can be done in your spare time over the course of a week. If it takes you longer than this, then you're probably putting too much into it.

Basically, what the commandos are looking for is:
  • Do you know the rules?
  • Do you know the theme?
  • Can you write in your chosen language? (It don't have to be English)
  • Do you want to be a commando?

It's not that hard.
Deacon
QUOTE
Original by [b]Paul{/b]:
What exactly were you guys hoping to accomplish with this thread? [...] this has to be one of the most useless threads I've ever seen.

We're trying to raise the level of awareness among the fans for the FanPro Commando program. The commando program has a reputation, as Clutch stated, seen as 'bad' in the fans who know about it. From the replies on this thread, I've seen a lot of people don't know about the program at all, so this thread is doing its job in that sense.
QUOTE
I'd have took the top 10 or so posters here, people you know are here and reading stuff, and replying. And then I'd take the top 10 quality people you know-people who really represent the best the community has to offer-if I were doing this I would choose five: DV8, 3278, Doc Funkenstein or whatever name he is using these days, Arcanum V, and Adam-and ask them in private, via email or PM for input.

Who says we haven't? wink.gif In fact, several of those individuals are already commandos.
QUOTE
Then I'd have created a thread-a guided thread that asked for suggestions

That's what we did. Bitrunner, OurTeam and I (among the other commandos) post enough to these forums that we can guide it along when it needs to be taken over from hijackers. We're the CorpSec rigger team. wink.gif
QUOTE
I'll be honest, it seems to me like the Commando program, TSS, the Official Page, and basically Fan Pro doesn't coordinate every thing well. It seems, to me, like you guys are all on different programs.

Your remarks have an element of truth to them; the FanPro commandos are a separate entity from FanPro, and as such we don't have the coordination we'd like to have. We're working on that, though; Shadowrun Missions (which is a commando program in itself) is coordinated through the Official Page, and we'll be working on things for TSS as well.
QUOTE
The Commando program doesn't offer me much in the incentive to do the work you guys want.

Then the program probably isn't for you, and we respect that. It's not like we're asking everyone to be a Commando; this isn't an organization like the Role Players Gaming Association where in order to do something like playing in the various D20 Player-run national campaigns, you have to be a member.

We'd like it if people would at least stop by and enter themselves into our player registry; that way, if you're a fan of players like Bitrunner, OurTeam, Ecclesiastes or myself, and we're running Shadowrun Missions somewhere, you can get in on it.

We'd also like to obtain new commandos with this junket (and several people have expressed an interest, from what I've seen above, so it looks like the thread accomplished its goals along that line as well). But mainly the question was asked so we could clear the air about the supposed 'bad rep' the commandos have among the general group of Shadowrun fans.
bitrunner
...or NO REP, as is probably more accurate - which can be considered by some to be a "bad" rep...

and i'll correct one thing Deacon said - SR Missions is NOT a commando program. As i've said before, the Commandos assist in managing the campaign, but it is not sponsored/run by the Commandos (but by FanPro).

But everything else i pretty much agree with Deacon. Paul, the object of the thread was primarily to raise awareness and clear up some of the misconceptions of the program. We are striving to improve our organization, especially as it pertains to the Shadowrun community. It does a great disservice to everyone if only a handful of people are deciding what we do - by bringing the issue to an open forum for open discussion, we can get a better impression of what we need to do for the community.

if my posts come across as some kind of pissing match, then i apologize - i only desire to clear up some of the misconceptions that i've seen concerning the program. As Deacon has mentioned, this isn't a press gang - if you (generic) don't want to become involved, then don't - it's that simple. But I would hope that you (generic) respect the choice of others that do wish to try the program.
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