Full Version: Suppressive Fire
I think the methodology is someone is hiding behind cover, so you put 10 rounds in the squaremeter that is just outside the cover. Person X isn't going to voluntarily stick his head out to shoot back at you. If he does, hes gonna get his face shredded.
Yes, but as Method correctly pointed out, you can suppress very effectively with low volume fire. In fact, in reality, soldiers worry far more about this. In a real fight, tons of rounds sprayed inaccurately might get spectacularly lucky and hit you, but you have a mission to complete and inaccurate fire is largely ineffective, so it falls into the backdrop and you do what you have to do. Accurate, low volume suppressing fire, hoever, is substantially more deadly, as suppression isn't about shooting the wooden fence the cowboy's behind; it's about making sure that cowboy knows the second he's visible, he's dead. How many rounds you use to do that can vary greatly, and SR's mechanic unfortunately fails to represent this in just about every way possible.
It would be interesting to come up with a simple game mechanic that somehow reproduced the mental aspects of suppression fire- perhaps something that requires a "pinned" charater to take a willpower test to move or act. Unfortunately I can't think of anything off the top of my head that wouldn't be horribly cumbersome and lame... 
you'd have to make it a general mechanic for resisting the urge to duck when being shot at. maybe... i dunno, maybe you have to roll Will vs TN 4 and get more successes than the shooter got on the attack test; if you fail, you have to spend your next action getting (or staying) out of the line of fire. +1 TN per round fired at you in the same combat turn.
The real problem is that when you poke out to take a shot, there's no chance of being hit (and this is, really, just the result of using a turn based mechanic). I've yet to see a good way of dealing with this and realistically recreating that danger.
| QUOTE (Arethusa) |
| The real problem is that when you poke out to take a shot, there's no chance of being hit (and this is, really, just the result of using a turn based mechanic). I've yet to see a good way of dealing with this and realistically recreating that danger. |
Actually I'm testing a new mechanic for movement (detailed in this thread) that would solve that problem.
Basically everyone moves half thier movement for the past at the start of the pass, then you resolve actions, then everyone moves the rest of thier movement. It doesn't allow people to pop out from behind cover, shot and duck back without any fear of return fire...
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| you'd have to make it a general mechanic for resisting the urge to duck when being shot at. maybe... i dunno, maybe you have to roll Will vs TN 4 and get more successes than the shooter got on the attack test; if you fail, you have to spend your next action getting (or staying) out of the line of fire. +1 TN per round fired at you in the same combat turn. |
Thats not too bad, but essentially a general mechanic for the "duck urge" would come into play all the time. Its like knock down- yet another roll you have to make when determining each individual action.
I think (donno really) youd have to make the test a specific responce to suppression fire, just for the sake of sanity, and then your suggestion would fit nicely.
We talked about using that movement house rule at our game session this past weekend and decided it added to much hassle to combat. So we are just using the "do all your movement on your turn" stance, with the gentleman's agreement that moving in and out of cover to shoot doesn't happen. It worked pretty well for us.
| QUOTE (Arethusa @ Feb 8 2005, 01:59 PM) |
| The real problem is that when you poke out to take a shot, there's no chance of being hit (and this is, really, just the result of using a turn based mechanic). I've yet to see a good way of dealing with this and realistically recreating that danger. |
Maybe you missed the part of the suppression fire rule where it says it lasts until the character's next phase, or the end of the turn. So when you pop your head out, there are bullets there to meet you.
| QUOTE (tisoz) |
| Maybe you missed the part of the suppression fire rul wgere it says it lasts until the characters next phase, or the end of the turn. Sowhen you pop your head out, there are bullets there to meet you. |
Correct. Suppressive fire is a perfect way of handling the problem of folks abusing the movement and cover rules.
| QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Feb 7 2005, 05:44 PM) |
| While it is not specifically stated, we rule that you must be standing or crouching |
I would suggest that when using an AR with a bipod, or a MG with a tripod that's low enough, that a character should be able to use suppresive fire while prone, also.
But that's just me.
er, yeah. having done the whole suppressive fire thing myself, in real life (albiet in training), you can definitely suppress while prone.
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| er, yeah. having done the whole suppressive fire thing myself, in real life (albiet in training), you can definitely suppress while prone. |
Stationary is the main point, I think. We probably would allow prone firing, too, as long as it is distinguished from Knockdown (I think that was the reason for the omission, subconsciously).
oh, yeah. when some gets knocked down, i require a Change Position action before they can do anything.
Why should you have to remain stationary to suppress? If we're just talking plain saturation fire, you may be less effective, but it's far from impossible.
You don't have to remain stationary to surpress. The whole point of surpressive fire is to make the other guy keep his head down. If by him having his head down allows you to gain a little ground, all the better. But, that's why it's best to leap frog with an overwatch, so one group can provide fire and remain stationary, the other group moves up and assaults, then repeat.
| QUOTE (Arethusa) |
| Why should you have to remain stationary to suppress? If we're just talking plain saturation fire, you may be less effective, but it's far from impossible. |
Game balance issues, mostly. The movement penalty for walking or running does not apply in Suppressive Fire rolls otherwise (only Defaulting *, Attacker's Wounds, Target Cover, and the +2 modifier for Suppressive Fire). Thus, you could use suppressive fire while running at your max movement, and suffer only a +2 penalty for your troubles (and the loss of Smartgun and any other enhancements, of course). We felt that was too good to be true, at least with a literal interpretation.
* Defaulting penalties are in the errata for Cannon Companion.
Why does the phrase "Run and Gun" spring to mind right now?
The SR mechanic for suppressive fire works just fine. There are bullets heading in your vage direction, make a RP decision as to wether you want to chance it, the mechanic will decide if you get hit.
The success of suppressive fire should be based on 2 points psychology (role played in SR) and if the target breaks cover then the more lead in the air the more likely he will be hit (only logical).
When using a pistol to suppress your relying heavily on the psychological effect, buy the time the shot has been noticed by the target it will no longer be a threat to him beyond his awareness that you know where he is hiding and probably are waiting to put a another round in that direction.
Edward
The success of suppressive fire should be based on 2 points psychology (role played in SR) and if the target breaks cover then the more lead in the air the more likely he will be hit (only logical).
When using a pistol to suppress your relying heavily on the psychological effect, buy the time the shot has been noticed by the target it will no longer be a threat to him beyond his awareness that you know where he is hiding and probably are waiting to put a another round in that direction.
Edward
I use suppressive fire every chance I get when playing SR. It is going to let me fulfill my lifelong goal of having to reload in the middle of a SR combat. In years and years of playing, I've never actually had to reload a firearm in SR combat. (Although when I GM, I've got the players to reload a couple of times. This is because I'm cool and actually give them enough meat that they need a spoon.)
Most of my combat reloads have been off of half-full or more magazines. Better safe than sorry, though.
~J
~J
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