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Herald of Verjigorm
Why don't you base your icon in his honor? Then he's stuck wondering if you actually meant it as a compliment.
JudgeIto78
LOL, not a bad idea... would save me from a sound beating, I would imagine biggrin.gif
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Fortune)
Paying 200 Grand at chargen to have the Nexus as a Contact is inane. Shadowland has everything you need.

I agree, but it would be nice to have a whole otaku colony and the Shadowland Sysops on your side. Heck, even Bash would be appreciated, depending on the circumstances. Paying the 200k means you are rubbing shoulders with literally the best deckers in the known world... not practical in most respects, but great for bragging rights.
Sokei
I wouldnt worry about the SS beating you so much as tastetesting while your jacked into the matrix or sleeping. I can see his excuse being something along the lines of "ive never tasted decker before!"
JudgeIto78
Well, I do have good reputation edge, so that would help in getting to know some better deckers online (or at least have them heard of me before), but what exactly does the Nexus encompass that is not covered by Shadowland?

*edit* Good rep at +2
hahnsoo
QUOTE (JudgeIto78 @ Feb 14 2005, 04:55 PM)
Well, I do have good reputation edge, so that would help in getting to know some better deckers online (or at least have them heard of me before), but what exactly does the Nexus encompass that is not covered by Shadowland?

Not much. Each Shadowland is a mirror of all the information that is compiled (edit: And distilled to weed out the crap) in the Nexus... information is taken from each Shadowland, shunted to the Nexus, then mirrored on the other Shadowlands. Practically speaking, you'd get more mileage out of taking just a local Shadowland node. But if you want your character to legally claim that he knows Captain Chaos, Fastjack, and other folks like that on a first name basis, the Nexus is the way to do it. It's almost like the decker equivalent of "Friends in High Places".
mfb
shadowland focuses on seattle, assuming you're talking about seattle's shadowland server. the nexus has everything shadowland seattle has, plus everything from shadowland seoul, shadowland berlin, shadowland hong kong, shadowland new york, etcetera.
JudgeIto78
Hmmm,

While being able to claim, in game, that I can count such decking titans as collegues would be hella cool in laying foundation for my IC persona, I'm not sure whether that is the best use of 200K in nuyen during chargen...

I guess I would rather be able to afford the materials I need to both help my group AND, in my downtime, perform some major hacks for paydata that could get me noticed by them during play.

Nothing quite like checking your inbox have a major heist and seeing an email from those guys saying: "hey, heard about your work. Way to go, N00b!"
Kagetenshi
Given the caliber that they're running at, that's highly unlikely.

That being said, if you really want to be rubbing shoulders with them, the Friends in High Places edge would be your friend. Just keep in mind that a friend in that high a place, while incredibly powerful when they do actually bring their powers to bear, probably wouldn't be doing much to actually help you most of the time.

~J
JudgeIto78
Well, I would much rather take a few more flaws to get that than spend 200K for a similar effect...

I'll have to ask my GM about that.
hahnsoo
It really depends on the style of play that your GM is using, in terms of the effectiveness of your character. We have a heavy emphasis on legwork and intel in our games, and thus having a matrix searching specialist provides the best benefit (this isn't to say the decker is a slouch when it comes to decking into systems, but he gets the most mileage out of searches)... the great thing about a searching specialist is that you can have a pretty crappy cyberdeck and still do quite well. If you get to have a lot of downtime, having a programming specialist will get you pretty awesome gear for little/no cost... it's much better than going after Paydata, IMHO, as you'll be saving yourself hundreds of thousands of nuyen by writing your own programs and building your own decks. Finally, if your GM prefers a "decker on-site" run-and-gun type campaign, the combat decker route is always a good option.

You don't have to specialize at all, of course. A good decker can do all of the above... but if your decker also is filling another role in the party (our decker is also our negotiator and infiltration specialist), it can be tough to be good at all aspects of decking.
JudgeIto78
I'm thinking I will be doing more of the searching/planning role for the group, as an Overseer on runs to control various slaves/electronics that need to be circumvented, as well as a combat decker when general access isn't available and I need to be at the terminal.

I did buy a computer/electronics shops for my van, so I can be outside a ways away to Oversee (a la the movie Sneakers) but I also bought kits of both to take with me when I need to go in.

Which reminds me, are there any rules about armoring a case/backpack for my deck and kits in case I get in firefights? I would hate to lose my stuff to a stray shot or what-have-you.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (JudgeIto78 @ Feb 14 2005, 05:47 PM)
I'm thinking I will be doing more of the searching/planning role for the group, as an Overseer on runs to control various slaves/electronics that need to be circumvented, as well as a combat decker when general access isn't available and I need to be at the terminal.

I did buy a computer/electronics shops for my van, so I can be outside a ways away to Oversee (a la the movie Sneakers) but I also bought kits of both to take with me when I need to go in.

Which reminds me, are there any rules about armoring a case/backpack for my deck and kits in case I get in firefights? I would hate to lose my stuff to a stray shot or what-have-you.

As a search specialist, make sure you get an Agent program that you can load a Browse 6 onto... this will lower your target numbers significantly for searches. Here's the thing we use in our campaign:
QUOTE
SearchAgent 3000: Cost -  360 Mp, 72000 nuyen

The Browse 6 utility is 36 Mp 7200 nuyen

Stats:
SearchAgent 3000 - Agent Frame rating 6 (Bod 1, Sensor 4, Masking 6, Evasion
1), 6 Pilot Rating, 5d6 initiative dice, 12 Payload (loaded with a Browse 6 by
default), -5 bonus to Matrix Searches

It's surprisingly easy to replace a cyberdeck if you make it yourself... you just have to recook the components onto chips and do the installation tests. Back everything up a hojillion times in as many safehouses as you can. The most expensive part would be replacing the active and storage memory. The casing costs 100 nuyen for a Rating 3 barrier case, and costs 500 nuyen per extra point, within reason (I wouldn't let it get above rating 8... the max listed in the book is rating 12).

If you plan to go "on-site", then you'll need Electronics B/R and Electronics to make a dataline tap.

EDIT: Whoops, I copy-pasted the "illegal" frames that we nixed because the core rating was lower than the Browse utility. nyahnyah.gif
JudgeIto78
Hmm, I get the idea of upping armor on the casing itself, but what about a backpack that carries other things I may need to0? Are there any rules for that?
Sokei
Basically the group Judge is in will be need him to do intel searchs during planning/downtime and as a combat decker for on site hacks. Beyond that its up to him , those two roles are the only ones I put a little stress behind. Any other roles he wishes to fill are up to him , I am giving him a lot of space i didn't want to pigeon hole his character by dictating what he needed to do, just mentioned that the group would benefit the most from those two roles in particular but a general decker is better than no decker or paying a stranger to do the matrix work (nasty loose ends).


*edit* as for the backpack or carrying case idea Judge we can house rule it , but id say something along the lines of a heavy duffel bag with a low ballistic rating.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (JudgeIto78)
Hmm, I get the idea of upping armor on the casing itself, but what about a backpack that carries other things I may need to0? Are there any rules for that?

Not to my knowledge. If you had an armored backpack, though, I'd imagine that it would be rather conspicuous. Still, if you were going that route, I'd extrapolate from the values given for the deck casing.
mfb
i dunno. given how common armored clothing is in SR, you wouldn't think it'd be that hard to get an armored courier bag, or a sleek-looking hardshell backpack with a datajack port on the outside.
JudgeIto78
QUOTE (mfb)
i dunno. given how common armored clothing is in SR, you wouldn't think it'd be that hard to get an armored courier bag, or a sleek-looking hardshell backpack with a datajack port on the outside.

Just what I was thinking biggrin.gif
hahnsoo
QUOTE (JudgeIto78)
QUOTE (mfb)
i dunno. given how common armored clothing is in SR, you wouldn't think it'd be that hard to get an armored courier bag, or a sleek-looking hardshell backpack with a datajack port on the outside.

Just what I was thinking biggrin.gif

Yeah, but most "regular" armor clothing doesn't have a rating above 5/3. If you were carrying a mil-spec armored briefcase or backpack, it would be rather conspicuous... UNLESS, you put it inside ANOTHER backpack. *grin*
mfb
not necessarily. you can get quite a bit of easily-concealable armor, if you pay for it. besides, who care's if it's conspicuous? my street-level characters wear bulky armored clothing all the time--not necessarily for the protection it offers, but because it looks cool. same reason people wear army surplus stuff irl.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (mfb)
not necessarily. you can get quite a bit of easily-concealable armor, if you pay for it. besides, who care's if it's conspicuous? my street-level characters wear bulky armored clothing all the time--not necessarily for the protection it offers, but because it looks cool. same reason people wear army surplus stuff irl.

Depends on the particular venue you are cruisin', I think. My group would never wear anything heavier than Armor Clothing at a nightclub, for example. A milspec armored backpack would probably be fine for field ops and the role of the combat decker (if you are lugging your deck around Main Street, I'd seriously question your streetsmarts). If you need to be discreet, though, you'd have to be less conspicuous. A cyberdeck that resembles an electronics maintenance kit or perhaps a medkit, for example. Our decker has a false-bottom electronics toolbox specifically for that purpose.

At the very least, lugging around a shiny milspec armored backpack will attract little ganger orks hopping up and down following you saying "What's in the box? What's in the box?" Or not. *grin*
ef31415
There are a couple of rules you need to know and love.

First is 'modes'. Take a deck characteristic, cut it in half, and add 50% to another characteristic. The second is an optional rule pg 26 I think on Matrix, that you can take 2 dice from your hacking pool and and 1 pt to your detection, up to +3 on detection.

So say you've got Masking 6 and Sleeze 6, and a hacking pool of 8. Normally you'd have a detection of 6. Crank your Masking to 6+3 = 9 and your detection is (9+6)/2 = 8 (round up). Add the +3 from the pool and your detection is 11 (and your pool is now 2).

Say you're going against an Orange-6 system. At a detection of 6, you'd get a security tally of ~1 per action, so you get about 3 actions before the probes start showing up. At 11, the security will get a success about 1 per 18 rolls. This means you get about 9 actions before you get a probe. With any luck, you can be out of the system by then. Make a series of short runs and the mark may never know you're there.

==Ed
mfb
i dunno. given the prevalance of armored clothing in SR, i just don't think an armored bag would call that much attention--it wouldn't be considered "milspec" any more than BDUs are (as in, yes, it's literally made to military specifications, but it's not nearly as rare or high-tech as the word "milspec" implies).

sure, if you're hitting the Needle, you'll want to sink 800Y in a Gucci Safeleather handbag, with 13 conceal and 4/4 armor for the contents of the bag only (no armor value for the wearer). but just walking down the street? heck, highschoolers probably wear armored backpacks they got from Bob's UCAS Surplus.
JudgeIto78
Where are the stats for the Gucci bag located? Never seen that before and probably more fits the character persona, rather than a clunky military bag
mfb
Target: Two Posts Up From This One. came out just before SoNA!
JudgeIto78
QUOTE (Sokei)
Basically the group Judge is in will be need him to do intel searchs during planning/downtime and as a combat decker for on site hacks. Beyond that its up to him , those two roles are the only ones I put a little stress behind. Any other roles he wishes to fill are up to him , I am giving him a lot of space i didn't want to pigeon hole his character by dictating what he needed to do, just mentioned that the group would benefit the most from those two roles in particular but a general decker is better than no decker or paying a stranger to do the matrix work (nasty loose ends).

So, based on what my GM just posted, which of these should I get in order of priority:

Sleaze, Deception, Validate, Attack, Armor, Shield, Cloak, Analyze, R/W, Decrypt, or Spoof?

Just trying to nail down a good list to start maxing out based on money (about 4-500k) and memory issues (850 active and 1700 storage)
Kagetenshi
In order of priority:

Sleaze
Sleaze
Sleaze
Deception
Analyze
Read/Write
Sleaze
Validate
Sleaze
Spoof
Decrypt
(cybercombat utilities go here)
Sleaze.

I'm not sure why you left it out, but given your stated purpose I'd stick Browse right up there above Read/Write.

~J
JudgeIto78
Whoops,

You're right, I did miss browse, was at the side of my list and missed it. Sorry about that.

Anyone else?
mfb
the top of the list for cybercombat programs should be Cloak, then Armor, then Attack-M+, then Slow, then whatever else.
JudgeIto78
Ok, so I got:

1. Sleaze
2. Deception
3. Anaylize
4. Browse
5. R/W
6. Validate
7. Spoof
8. Decrypt
9. Cybercombat [(a) Cloak (b) Armor © Attack M (d) Slow]

Ok, great. That gives me a good list to start from and hopefully I can get all of these at a pretty decent power with 850 active memory and the money alloted.

Plus, i'm just trying to get a post I made to around 80 replies wink.gif
Eyeless Blond
I'd put Attack a little higher than everyone else, mostly for getting rid of those annoying-as-hell Probes and Scouts. Nothing'll jack up your tally higher than trying to ignore either of those damn things. Hmm... although I guess that's mostly dependent on whether you use the optional rule about supressing IC with hacking pool dice, isn't it? If crashed IC goes directly to your DF, you're probably better off trying to hide indefinately. And I suppose if you're really desperate you can always whip up an attack program without too much trouble, though on high Sec Value systems you're not likely to do much damage per attack.
Kagetenshi
I'd personally assert that if you've got a Probe or Scout out, it's time to log off for half an hour.

~J
The White Dwarf
To hahnsoo, dont quote that at me please. He asked about hosts and nodes both of which are specific matrix terms. I said no, but theres some stuff in matrix. You quoted a page from matrix pertaining to archives and datahavens, which again are specific matrix terms. Datahaven isnt the same as Host, k. What I said was accurate, you could have printed the page from the book without quoting me at all and got the same message across to the original poster.
Fortune
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
I agree, but it would be nice to have a whole otaku colony and the Shadowland Sysops on your side. Heck, even Bash would be appreciated, depending on the circumstances. Paying the 200k means you are rubbing shoulders with literally the best deckers in the known world... not practical in most respects, but great for bragging rights.

Much better bragging rights if you earn that 'in-game'.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (The White Dwarf)
To hahnsoo, dont quote that at me please. He asked about hosts and nodes both of which are specific matrix terms. I said no, but theres some stuff in matrix. You quoted a page from matrix pertaining to archives and datahavens, which again are specific matrix terms. Datahaven isnt the same as Host, k. What I said was accurate, you could have printed the page from the book without quoting me at all and got the same message across to the original poster.

It wasn't a snipe at you, sorry if it came across that way. It was unclear from your language whether or not you were aware of the contact rules in Matrix that I posted, and I thought it would be a good quote to edify the royal you, as it were.
Endgame50
Personally, I go the stealth route. As everything at chargen is limited to rating six or less, I went with the Novatech Hyperdeck (MPCP 6). I put my masking at six. I bought sleaze at six.

My group uses several optional rules for decking. 1) Switching Modes. This allows you to drop one persona attribute by 1/2 and raise another by 1/2. In Masking mode, I have masking 9, sleaze 6. This means my base Detection factor is (9+6)/2=7.5, rounded up is 8.

The second optional rule is sacrificing 2 hacking pool to raise your DF by +1, to a max of +3. This means I'm down six HP, but my DF is now 11.

Finally, I got the sneak option placed on all my operational activities at +1. This brings my DF to 12, which means a 1/36 chance per die of getting a security tally added. I've only ever got enough tally to get into cybercombat once, and that was with a probe IC I didn't feel like dealing with. (And I've been doing Orange Hard to Red Hard)

As for other utilities of note--Make sure you have Deception (Need it to log in), Browze (Find Files), Read / Write (Download Files), Analyze (Detect those IC / System tricks), Decrypt (Defeat encryption on those files) as high as you can get them.

I've also found Cloak and Camo to be useful.
The White Dwarf
Dont forget the Royal Me also comes as a Royal Me with Cheese for 2 nuyen more!
Fortune
QUOTE (The White Dwarf)
Dont forget the Royal Me also comes as a Royal Me with Cheese for 2 nuyen more!

Nah, cheese is standard with the Royal You. wink.gif
Sokei
OK just wanted to through another question out here about deckers. If a decker is running overwatch for a team is there anyway they can communicate with their team directly aside from having someone stand over their shoulder and read off a screen attached to his deck.

Is there a way to patch some kind of cellphone conference call? or maybe using the buildings systems to communicate with the team?
Eyeless Blond
Sure. Just attach a cell phone or high-rating transceiver to one of the deck's free FUPs. High-rating MPCPs can be used like external routers this way fairly easily.
Sokei
Cool , so the Decker could use this attachment to communicate from the matrix? i really need to buckle down and finish the matrix book , i have a feeling im missing a lot of the cool side stuff you can do with the cyberdeck rules. unfortunately with school i find sitting down to trudge through even more reading not such a glorious thing some days.
Endgame50
QUOTE (Sokei)
Cool , so the Decker could use this attachment to communicate from the matrix? i really need to buckle down and finish the matrix book , i have a feeling im missing a lot of the cool side stuff you can do with the cyberdeck rules. unfortunately with school i find sitting down to trudge through even more reading not such a glorious thing some days.

Yeah. keep in mind that any contact with the real world, via cell, radio, or otherwise, lowers your matrix initiative by 1d6. No biggie if you're going stealthy, but it might hurt a bit for matrix combat. Oh, I was slightly in error, the Masking mode thing I mentioned earlier isn't even an optional rule--it's just a decker trick.

Look through the Matrix book in constructing a cyberdeck. You can include alot of the stuff under patchwork attachments to your deck. You can either plug them in directly to a FUP (Fuchi universal port--think of them like USB ports) which your deck automatically comes with its MPCP rating in for free (you can upgrade up to 2x) or if you pay for installation, the stuff doesn't even need to use a FUP.

I put a rating 5 tranceiver in my deck for communicating while running--on top of that, I installed radiolink hardware and software. It lets me use a wireless dataline tap. It's not always useful, but sometimes it's a good deal of fun. One run, I needed to swipe a bit of data from an offline Matrix Host. Another sneakier member of my party snuck into the building, planted the wireless tap, and I went to work. 30 seconds later, he picks up the tap and leaves the building. Move on to the next part of the run. My non-fast talking, non-stealthy decker didn't even have to go near the place. (Though wireless dataline taps have low flux--a signal repeater or something would help with that)
hahnsoo
QUOTE (Sokei)
Is there a way to patch some kind of cellphone conference call? or maybe using the buildings systems to communicate with the team?

In a well-designed CCSS system, you are not likely to be able to communicate or monitor the runner team using the building's systems (since CCSS is designed to divorce the building security from the Matrix)... however, not all CCSS systems are well-designed, and most buildings still have some leftover slave nodes from their old system. It would be a pretty relevant search roll to figure out when the building was built (older buildings = older legacy systems) and who runs the building security hardware.

You can pull the Spy-Fi trick of dialing a phone nearby the runners. They'd pick it up and you'd get to talk to them. Has a lot of style points, there. Another option is to have a cellular phone simply attached to your deck, and dialing them up manually, though this leaves a potentially traceable trail.
JudgeIto78
Hey everyone,

Sorry I have to keep this thread going, but I keep having questions depending on what stage I am in character building...

Well, everything is chosen and paid for, so now I'm thinking conceptually for RPG purposes:

When a decker is "jacked in" to the Matrix, their body goes slack and what have you. But exactly how much awareness does the decker have over their meat body when in the Matrix? Could you tell if someone nudged you in the shoulder? Or if the room was on fire?

Just wondering so I can have someone I trust watch my body while I work.

Thanks again
Endgame50
QUOTE (JudgeIto78)
Hey everyone,

Sorry I have to keep this thread going, but I keep having questions depending on what stage I am in character building...

Well, everything is chosen and paid for, so now I'm thinking conceptually for RPG purposes:

When a decker is "jacked in" to the Matrix, their body goes slack and what have you. But exactly how much awareness does the decker have over their meat body when in the Matrix? Could you tell if someone nudged you in the shoulder? Or if the room was on fire?

Just wondering so I can have someone I trust watch my body while I work.

Thanks again

Well, the piece of hardware that's interfering with your Real World awareness is called the RAS Override. When it's active, you have a +8 modifier to perception tests and any actions you take in the real world. (Matrix pg 19). So you have some awareness, but not a hell of a whole lot. I'd suggest you have your friend hit you harder than just a nudge, but otherwise, it's either GM's discretion or whatever TN he sets for a perception test.

Oh, you should run pure DNI. You get +2 to reaction, use your int score as your reaction, and +1d6 initiative if you run pure DNI and hot ASIST. As you need hot ASIST to use hacking pool, there's no reason not to do it. It's already built into your deck, just tell your GM you're using it.

Oh, the reason I keep harping on going stealthy is cause the system makes opposed checks against everything you do, subtracting from your successes. The TN they roll against is your DF. On top of that, every success they get adds to the security tally and raises alarms, activates IC, and so on. Even DF six is lowish--it means you're going to raise your tally by about 1 or more every action you do. So around 12, it goes up much slower, and lets you do what you need to do with less hassle.

Also, remember to use analyze host. It sucks badly to find out you got your paydata only to find that you were in a Virtual Machine and actually came out with nothing. (Virtual Machines are decoy systems designed to fool deckers into stealing worthless data)
Eyeless Blond
I'm hearing a lot about agents and frames and such these days. Should that really be a priority for a new/midrange decker, moreso than say an Attack program or Medic? Where would Frames and Agents fall into that list above, and what ratings/utilities/etc should they have? I honestly kinda ignored those rules; maybe I shouldn't have.
mfb
frames and agents give a decker the same versatility that a drone rigger has, basically. if you're going to use a frame or agent, they should basically be single-purpose: combat, auto-validation, scouting, searches, whatever. pick a single task type, and build the frame or agent to accomplish that task type and only that task type.

unlike drones, though, you can upload multiple copies of a single frame or agent. insanely handy.
hahnsoo
A single Agent of rating 6 with a Browse 6+ costs 79200 nuyen, 396 Mp (this is assuming you fold in the cost of the Browse 6 at 7200 nuyen and 36 Mp), and gives a whopping -5 to Matrix Searches Target Numbers. If you are using those rules, it is almost essential. Even a simple Rating 1 or 2 agent is worth the price of admission (-3 to Matrix Searches). If you aren't using the Matrix Searches rule, though, I don't think it's as much a priority for a starting decker.

I don't think Medic is a priority for a new decker. Attack could be, if you intend to actually see Cybercombat (i.e. you have an offensively capable deck).
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