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Lindt
Allow me to say. Wow. That car will out run every helio in the book, as well as the slower T-birds... CRAZY!

Here is a tentative PC

[ Spoiler ]

Kiedo
Nikoli and everyone else who asked: the type of racing will be drag racing, and some a to b races. An on the spot vehicle shop could be an interesting twist...

Slipshade: background recieve, making two official runners, and one unofficial

Aes: Can you point me to the part of rigger 3, where it talks about sports cars with jet turbines, I couldn't find it. but aside from that it looks pretty clean, and fast.

lindt:that looks good, I would like to see a background in my inbox so I can get to know him better

Everyone: You all will be working as a street racing team(or gang if you prefer), so unless you want to race one another you won't have to. sorry I forgot to mention that sooner. But that is subject to change if you guys don't want to be.

Runner Count
In for sure
Sebastian St. John(cybered rigger) - sandoval smith
johnny the bull (ex go ganger bull shaman)- slipshade

pending
Meava Leclerc (former professional Le Mans driver)- Aes (pending recipt of full gear, else in for sure)
Maxwell Iverian(street racer with something to prove?) - Lindt (pending recpt of background/bio)


don't worry if you don't get in as a PC, I've got up to two NPCs who could use a three dimensional personality. Hell if I get enough PC's, and everyone is okay with it, there might be two rival teams: ). biggrin.gif
Nikoli
Rough Bio for Luis Clempt

bear with me here as by brain is doing a wonderful impression of jello at the moment:


Luis served in the UCAS military, nothing exemplary but no slouch either. As part of a special forces unit, he was enhanced with SOTA (at the time) cyber to enhance his natural proclivities and trained as a designated marksman for his team. He's a good shot with an Assault rifle and gets by with a few others. He has some medical training as well as knowing his way around a wrench.

On the track, he seems the quiet unassuming fellow acting as the assistant mechanic and driving a big truck, carrying the "johnny on the spot" vehicle shop for inthe field tune ups (as well as a gunsmith shop).
What most folks see is his predator tucked un a shoulder carry, his typical loadout being gel rounds.
What folks don't know is he acts as a staple in the team security on track, with some milspec gear he managed to aquire after cycling out and getting bored of the normal civilian life rather fast. While he no longer has "Rochelle" his new rifle is almost as good, "Dani" doesn't have range, but she's got heart (and a grenade launcher).

Fresno Bob
My character is done, and will be submitted in a bit.
Kiedo
Nikoli:Sound good, I'll add you to my tentative list, and as soon as you get you sheet and full bio sent in, I'll add it to the official list.

Just to help you decide on what type of b/r skills to get, it looks like I've got one car, one bike, and as soon as Aes decides on what type of car he wants, I think he's leaning towards, a "batmobile", I'll have a clearer indication of what's what.

Also every PC I've got has at least a b/r skill of 3 in the vehicle they've got, but most have a 4. Good luck with your security/mechanic/sharp shooter. I hope to see him in my inbox soon
Fresno Bob
Okay, my character is sent.
Kiedo
Voorhees: for now I'm putting him on the pending list. I'd like a little more background if you will. Don't get me wrong what you sent me is good but I'd like to have more to read.

Everyone: as it stand right now I have recieved a total of five characters, two are still in need of biographical information, I've seen about ten people express intrest in this run, so there are two options. One I can expand the run to incorporate two rival teams (good guys vs. bad guys), or I can narrow it down to five(if all ten people submit a character), and the two closest runners up can have the NPC slots. I am indifferent its no more difficult on this side of the table to go either way so, I will leave it up to you all. Majority Rules
Aes
QUOTE (Kiedo @ Feb 26 2005, 12:35 AM)
Aes: Can you point me to the part of rigger 3, where it talks about sports cars with jet turbines, I couldn't find it.  but aside from that it looks pretty clean, and fast.

Page 199 - power plant listing. Shows stats for APC (tracked), APC (wheeled), Caterpillar (Light/Med/Heavy/Mini), Sports Cars and Transport (Heavy) among ground vehicles. I assumed that meant jet turbine could be affixed to a sports car but not a sedan.

Load (start/max): 40/260
Speed (start/max): 240/400
Acceleration (start/max): 18/32
Sig: 2
Fuel: 60
Economy (start/max): 6/10
Design pts: 90

With drive-by-wire and smart materials counting towards raising the max limits in the final design.

[Edit]

Just finished up the last details in NSRCG. The final character sheet should be on its way to you within the hour. Then I'll write up a blurb on the little woman for everyone else.
Kiedo
That really wierd, I'm looking in my copy of rigger 3, on page 199, and as far as cars go the only things in mine are:

APC, Tracked
APC, Wheeled
Caterpillar, Heavy
Caterpillar, light
Caterpillar, Medium
Caterpillar, Miniature
Transport, Heavy

I'm going to scan and email you a pdf of that little part just so you don't think I'm being a jerk or am stupid or something.

Can anyone else who's got rigger 3 please check thier book and make sure mine isn't just a printing error or something.
Aes
The copy I'm looking at is Rigger 3 Revised. Perhaps that's one of the differences. I'd like to echo Kiedos request -- Anyone with greater rules-fu than I know wether or not it's within the rules to make a jet turbine driven sports car?
Kiedo
Ha it's under diesel in mine those same exact numbers. That's wierd that a diesel car is significantly faster than a gasoline one. I understand how a jet engine would but a diesel? Eh I did see a Ford F-150 FX4 diesel beat an ss camero that ran mid 11's but the diesel had MAJOR turbo work done.

so the car is fine either way you look at it cause what ever you want to call it, diesel in mine or jet turbine in yours, there are numbers for it that I can see with my own eyes. Go ahead and give it to Meava.
Aes
Ah. Maybe it's the secret ninja diesel recepie wink.gif

For everyone else, here's what I've got. Stripped away all the derived stats, calculations and things only omniscient people (GMs) would know without picking her body and brain apart.

[ Spoiler ]
Fortune
Check your thread about this in the main Forum. I posted a link to the Rigger 3 to Rigger 3 Conversion Guide there.
Kiedo
Thanks for the help, fortune.
Sandoval Smith
Aes, about the car, I think you slipped up on the customizations. You have listed,
QUOTE

Contigency Maneuver Controls lv. 3
Rigger adaptation
APPS
Crash Cages
Conc. Armor lv. 5
Sensors lv. 4


The problem with that is, your car has a CF of 3, and a Load of 45. Whereas that loadout has a CF of 24, and a Load of 290. You need to lose 21 points of CF, and 245 points of Load.
Aes
QUOTE (Sandoval Smith @ Feb 26 2005, 09:57 AM)
The problem with that is, your car has a CF of 3, and a Load of 45.  Whereas that loadout has a CF of 24, and a Load of 290.  You need to lose 21 points of CF, and 245 points of Load.

Probably because I omitted mentioning the load/cf increase paid for in the design process. I can double-check the numbers tonight if you're sure, but I'm pretty sure I paid the CFs and Load listed for all the components.
Sandoval Smith
That would bear mentioning then. Even if you increased the CF as far as it can go, that's still just 18. The total load can be no higher than 260. In that case, you need to shed 6 CF, and 30 kg of load.

Also, you also can't exceed rating 6 (even if it's under 8 avail) on gear at character creation, so need to downgrade the transponder library, and the anti-theft system.
Nightcrawler472
Dear sweet zombified christ I hate relative frequencies.

And, with that out the way...

I'm planning to play an ex go-ganger in either a Ford Mustang (use the GM-Nissan 3220 profile then modify it), or an Aston Martin Vanquish (yes, I'm English), probably the Mustang as a Vanquish'd have a fairly high Avail.

Anyway, I've got a rough concept of the numbers (just no time to do it 'till after Monday morning), but I could really use some help modifying the car.

I've got Rigger 3 (somewhere), and I'm thinking of adding some concealed armour & a rollcage, then just improving the engine & handling (and maybe adding N20 injectors), but I'm not sure of the numbers, so can someone help?

Oh, and would a pair of pop-up auto-targetting shotguns in the bonnet be excessive? (I saw 'Die Another Day' last night).

Anyway, character'll be done by Tuesday hopefully, but I'd really appreciate some help with the number crunching for the car modification.

As for the run...am I to take it we're a quasi-legal racing team then? (reminds me of some old cartoon show, but I can't think which one)
Kiedo
according to what you sent me, you've given the corsair 13cf and 165 load still not enough to carry your mods. Which ones of the long list of custom parts did you put on during vehicle creation and afterwards. I noticed that some things have load in after creation customization but not in the design phase, probably becasue they are naturally incorporated into the design of the car rather than just slapped in afterwards
Thomas
QUOTE (Nightcrawler472 @ Feb 26 2005, 09:28 AM)
As for the run...am I to take it we're a quasi-legal racing team then? (reminds me of some old cartoon show, but I can't think which one)


I was thinking of submitting a character from "Death Race 2000", but that might be to corny - besides, most of my characters have more depth than that.
Aes
*grabs rigger 3*

Looking at the design costs

Contigency Maneuver Controls lv. 3 - pg. 128 - 105DP, 75kg load reduction
Rigger adaptation - pg. 130 - 35DP
APPS - pg. 131 - 60DP (30/seat)
Crash Cages - pg. 132 - 40DP, load reduction 10kg
Conc. Armor lv. 5 - pg. 132 - DP: 250, CF 10, Load reduction 225kg
Sensors lv. 4 - pg. 146 - DP 100, CF 2, load 35kg

Total load: 345kg
Total CF: 12

I don't see a CF problem at all, though I'll admit to the armor blooper. I forgot to multiply the load by the # of armor points, leading to the lightest armor plating ever devised(!!!) nyahnyah.gif

That being said, it's only 85kg above what the car should be able to haul with max. load increase, so I suppose dropping the armor to 3 and shifting the freed CFs to increase the vehicles max load should fix it. 2 CFs are worth 10dp, which in turn can boost the load another 100kg
Dropping transponder library and anti-theft as well would leave her with a final load capacity of 25kg and 2 free CFs. And 20240 nuyen.gif spare. Does that sound about right?
Kiedo
Nightcrawler472: Aside from the sacrilege of using a GM car's stats for your FORD mustang, tuesday is fine, just be sure to get it in before wednesday, I hope to have the OOC up very late wednesday night. But heck thats still a few days off. "bonnet" shotguns (psst thats the hood right? lol), excessive, no, useful, maybe (that all depends on the runners themselves). Quasi-legal, yeah thats about right, though judging from the bio's I have one or two racers that might have an inclination to more legal races. As for the run, there will be a nice mix of legal and para-legal racing going down.

Thomas: Maybe one of those "deep" characters might be better suited...
Kiedo
Aes: yeah that sounds right. Just send me the finished copy, and that'll be fine. Unless somebody else sees a problem... *looks around*
Ecclesiastes
Kiedo: Just so you know, I have Rigger 3 Revised as well, and Sports Car is listed as being allowed to have a Jet Turbine.
Kiedo
Thanks, Ecclesiastes. And thanks again to fortune for showing me that I need a new copy of rigger 3. lol.
Sandoval Smith
QUOTE (Aes @ Feb 26 2005, 10:44 AM)
*grabs rigger 3*

Looking at the design costs

Contigency Maneuver Controls lv. 3 - pg. 128 - 105DP, 75kg load reduction
Rigger adaptation - pg. 130 - 35DP
APPS - pg. 131 - 60DP (30/seat)
Crash Cages - pg. 132 - 40DP, load reduction 10kg
Conc. Armor lv. 5 - pg. 132 - DP: 250, CF 10, Load reduction 225kg
Sensors lv. 4 - pg. 146 - DP 100, CF 2, load 35kg

Total load: 345kg
Total CF: 12

I don't see a CF problem at all, though I'll admit to the armor blooper. I forgot to multiply the load by the # of armor points, leading to the lightest armor plating ever devised(!!!) nyahnyah.gif

That being said, it's only 85kg above what the car should be able to haul with max. load increase, so I suppose dropping the armor to 3 and shifting the freed CFs to increase the vehicles max load should fix it. 2 CFs are worth 10dp, which in turn can boost the load another 100kg
Dropping transponder library and anti-theft as well would leave her with a final load capacity of 25kg and 2 free CFs. And 20240 nuyen.gif spare. Does that sound about right?

Okay, I see the problem. You can't spend DP on customization, unless you actually do the customizations during the design phase, and you can't do that because that'd put you over the availibility cap. Therefore, you have to use the 'after market' custimization costs, CFs, and load.

Contigency Maneuver Controls lv. 3 - 2 CF / 30 kg (It's 30 kg flat, not per level)
Rigger adaptation - 1 CF / 10kg
APPS - pg. 131 - 1 CF
Crash Cages - 2 CF / 25kg
Conc. Armor lv. 5 - 15 CF / 225 kg
Sensors lv. 4 - 3 CF / 35 kg

Total = 14 cf / 325 kg
Nightcrawler472
Kiedo - Check Rigger 3. Under the 'similiar models' bit it lists the Ford Mustang.

That's the only reason I said use that profile...

And yes, the bonnet means the hood.

Though I should point out you should all be using English terms since the Brits invented the car if I remember my history right... nyahnyah.gif

Now I just have to figure out how to explain the twin SPAS-15 clones mounted next to the engine when the friendly policeman stops me...

Edit:

Oh, and your idea of 'late Wednesday night' rougly translates to some gods-forsaken hour for me, so don't expect me to post anything 'till Thursday.
Kiedo
*sigh* I knew it was too good to be true, I hadn't really gotten around to check myself yet... Well when ever it's right send it my way, Damn it I am going to be soooo confused question.gif come wednesday night since that will be the fifth different copy of the corsair I will have gotten. Eh hopefully we can have this all sorted out by then. maybe you could stick like a 2.0 in there somewhere.

nightcrawler472: I know I know, but I can't help it I'm a ford person, I love my focus(which look cooler on your side of the pond I may add). You guys may have invented the... wait I thought a german company had the first car, irrelivant because thank to Henry Ford cars are readily available. nyahnyah.gif Yeah your a few hours ahead of us so no biggy, initially it's going to be "post a description of your character so we're all on the same page." type stuff, maybe coming up with a name for your racing team, pick a leader, stuff of that nature.
Sandoval Smith
Here is the complete writeup for Sebastian St. John. I've made a few more tweaks (putting runflats on all the vehicles, for example,) from the version I sent in to Kiedo, but now this guy should be the REALLY final version.

Sebastian St. John (backstory included)
[ Spoiler ]
Aes
It'll only be the third, but I digress.

Ah well, I'll do it all over again, using the part costs and cf/loads from the customization bits instead. All wrapped up in a nice lil' excel sheet. I'm still fairly confident everything can be fitted into the car if I drop a few points worth of armor, unless the parts cost for customization are far greater than that of their DP values during design.
Sandoval Smith
Yeah, concealed armor is a real suck on both the CF and the load. That's probably the reason why most race cars don't have any. biggrin.gif
Aes
Eh... Found some more addition errors. I'll juggle desig and customization about a bit. End result should be much the same. 'cept it'll follow the rules, have less armor (and cost a good deal less too, it seems. Whoop!)

Seeing as everyone wants to pick the car apart, I suppose I'll mail the excel sheet with all the calculations out to those who ask once it's done nyahnyah.gif
Sandoval Smith
The problems just jumped out at me because I'd just finished doing my the gear for my own sports car and step van, and couldn't imagine how you'd gotten four points of concealed armor along with the rest of that onto a sports chassis.
Aes
Nah, what really jumped at me was that noone (until me, now) realized I had only paid 1/5th price for drive-by-wire (looked up the wrong chassis when determining cost). Serves me right for trying to warp my mind around the R3R rules at 2AM. Can anyone find any othe roversights in the design? Excel sheet I used to figure everything out will be sent upon request.

What I got after redoing calculations from scratch:
[ Spoiler ]
Lindt
This is w/o doing the math out, but consider sacking smart materials in favor of improved suspension and modified engine. Or DBW (but L1 is ¥35k-ish, so it may or may not be a bargin)

Now your seeing why I just modified a car insted of making one from scratch. nyahnyah.gif
Aes
Oh, I fully aggree that I'd be short a dozen headaches if I had just taken a stock car and slapped som nitrous oxide injectors on it. But while I may loathe the design proces (possibly because I suck at it), I've a hard time imagining Ms. LeClerc settling for a stock car. I suppose I should've given her a smaller ego but c'est la vie. nyahnyah.gif
Lindt
Heheh.
As the book mentioned though, keeping your load and CF REDUCTIONS apart from your designed load and CF ratings helps a lot.
Nightcrawler472
Kiedo - Yeah, but the Ford Focus in the UK is sodding impossible to drive 'cause you can't see anything out the back...

Anyway, will someone help me modify my car?
Tarantula
Night, I'll help you doublecheck all your stuff, I'm going to catch lunch with my friend shortly, but PM me the details, and I'll look over them sometime today for sure.
Ecclesiastes
Just so you guys know, my character will have an RV (highly moded) and a trailer that is a portable vehicle shop. So if you need a shop, I got ya covered.
Tarantula
For now, I just made my vehicle, its a light hovercraft, lemme know what you guys think about it. I'm gonna throw it up here while I go finish up my character.

[ Spoiler ]
Lindt
Bloody hell... I gotta keep my eyes on light hovers more. Those things are FAST...
Kiedo
nightcrawler472: but it's got nice looking bumper covers, I've been trying to find some for mine for about a year but I don't want to order them from ford cause they are $$$.

Ecclesiastes: thats basically what nikoli is doing except he's using a heavy transport. Not that it's a problem, you can never be too prepared.

Tarantula: A hovercraft? I hadn't planned for one of those but if you want it I'll work something out...

Everyone: With the character I just got today that makes 3 official characters, 6 pending (that includes the people who've just pitched ideas on the forum and not send in anything yet, such as tarantula, nightcrawler472, and ecclesiastes), not to mention the other couple of people who said I'm interested. But to my suprise no one has expressed an opinion as to wether they'd want two PC teams against one another, or one PC team against an NPC team(with or without a few people playing the npcs).
Tarantula
Kiedo, just for your information, hovercrafts function exactly as normal wheeled ground vehicles, with 2 differences. They can go over water, and their handling doesn't get affected by road/bumpy/bad terrain. Restricted/Tight terrain still applies though.

Lindt, they can take jet power too, but I figure, we already got one batmobile in the group, and besides, its a lot easier to refuel some electricity than jet fuel.
Kiedo
yeah I know they can but when I picture a hovercraft mentally driving down a road I always imaging a huge mostrosity that takes up four lanes and is full of marines. Yeah I just ment by that something that can use it's natural talents.

thats what I told him but he's got a pilot contact so I guess it's fine.
Lindt
Dude, 2 teams vs would kick ass. I care not if its PVP or PC vs NPC (with help).

Also, doing some fun charcter modifications, sending you them when they get done. Yes, history and contact info included.

And Aes, if you wanna save some CF and load, make it a 1 passanger car. Pulling the 2nd seat saves you 6CF and 100kg load, plus DPs on the APPS system.

Tarantula
For your sanity then: out of R3R it says that light hovercraft are comparible to a pickup or SUV in size. If that helps you out any.
Sandoval Smith
That's why I prefer Just taking an existing vehicle and customizing it. It usually results in less headaches.

Wow, it seems like we have shops coming out the wazoo, because Sebastian has one too.Going to be useful when we need to work on multiple vehicles.
Kiedo
tarantula: Ok I see what your talking about, it's good to see somebody with sanity in mind. lol Okay so a hovercraft, the size of a truck thats alot more reasonable than what I was picturing. Guess I should have checked rigger three before I said anything. Um one other thing, I noticed in you description of your vehicle that you put down smart materials, as improving speed by 15% you saw that it also increases acceleration and load by that too right? Because that would give you a max of 12 ACC, and 828 load. Oh and a very important thing with a final un customized price tag of 314,800, that would put the availability at 17(including the +1 avail for smart materials), which is almost double what a starting character can have.

Aes: I just thought of something when I was looking over tarantula's hovercraft. And I thought about the handling of your batmobile/saleen. It's 1/3 how does the rule of one apply to that vehicle because even if you roll all ones you still have all sucesses. Not to mention I think I remeber reading somewhere that you can't have a TN of less than 2 anyway(but that might just be for social interaction). Just as your going over the final touches on the corsair ou might take that into cosideration.

sandoval smith: yeah I know what you mean, funny part is I hadn't really planned on you guys needing them per se. But since you've got them, better not let them go to waste... I just hope there is no "NO, I'm working on the car" going on, as funny as it might be...
Lindt
its not +1 avil for smart materals.. Its +1 to the street index. Which (as its at cargen) dosent matter.

As far as handeling, I dont 'think' you can drop it below, 2, though I may be wrong. If so Im about to spend even MORE money...

But yeah, your WAY WAY over on BP. Max you could have is 1600, so trim down a bit. Most of that you can do with mods anyhow.
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