Absolutely.

I would give the ally a clothed form, just in case the illusion fails. Then they are not nude. I see the ally's clothes as part of the ally, not actual clothing that can be put on or taken off. So using mask to change the spirits attire is like using mask to change facial features.

If you see ally clothing as removable, then you are using masking to alter their attire.

I don't think I would allow Fashion to alter the ally's appearance. It is a being not a piece of clothing.

Makeover? That depends on how much you think you can alter an appearance with it. I usually think of it like a trip to the salon. But some of these makeover tv shows might broaden the idea to include the salon, the gym, the plastic surgeon, and of course the clothing boutique. Luckily, this hasn't come up for me.

Mile high club?

Oh dear...

I would rather not, but not for the reason that first comes to most Dumpshocker's minds.

Or at least not only for that reason!

That was my thinking as well. The clothing (if any) would actually be part and parcel of the Ally itself.

If I saw the Ally's clothes as removable, then technically Fashion should work just fine.

I mentioned Makeover because of the thread about a month ago where there was some discussion about just what the spell entailed. I believe as you do, that it only simulates a visit to a salon and a sprucing-up and cleaning of any worn clothing.

Nor me until now, which is quite surprising. I want the character to be able to call on and utilize the Ally in many different social settings though, and just one defined set of clothes just doesn't seem to cut it.

You never know. If the character plays his cards right ...

So did I, but it looks decidedly different when taken out of context.

Does it specify that cost for the Ritual of Change, or only for the initial summoning? Every other cost is higher in the changing ritual.

Does it even state that it is possible to add forms after the fact?

Well it had been a long day and it was late!

heheheheh, I think I do need help!

Anyone willing to give it?

torz x

You know, I never thought about that before. I just sort of assumed you could add forms, but reading through that section again it seems like you can't. Huh.

Heh, I might, but I live on the wrong half of the planet I think.

Yeah, I got a chance to re-read it as well, and couldn't find any reference.

Is it for all Perception tests in general, or just the Astral Watch power? I think it makes sense if it's just the Astral Watch power, especially when it's a "guard this area" type of Astral Watch. It would be analogous to the rules for Elementals.

EDIT: I take that back, for Elementals, it's Intelligence as well (which is normally equal to Force anyway). So no, it doesn't make sense.

Shame!



TORZ X

I guess it's just that metahuman skills are all pretty much alike to Spirits.

Idiotic rule! No matter what reason they are rolling Perception, it should be Intelligence.

You know, it's times like this I don't know if I'm pleased or mildly disturbed to discover a fellow shadowrunner a mere half-hour's drive away...

An Ally Spirit's mental Attributes are the same as its conjurer's are when it is summoned, while the physical ones are equal to its Force. The physical Attributes can be raised, either at the time it is first summoned, or later in a Ritual of Change, but its mental ones can never change.

OK, I get it now. Good rule, or people with high Intelligence would have highly perceptive Ally Spirits for a low cost.

LOL, we know where you live!!

Bwahahahahaha!

torz x

And there's something wrong with that?

What happens when the master is using the Sense link power to look through the spirit's eyes? Does he use his own Perception or the allies?

His own, I'd imagine.

Well see there's the problem. What is it exactly that makes the ally's Perception different from everything else in Shadowrun? Are the sensetivity of its "eyes'" dependent on its Force, limiting the mage to only using that number of dice? What happens in the (admitedly rare) event that the Force of the ally is greater than its intelligence? In the absense of a special critter power like enhanced perception, what allows the stupid ally to perceive more than it can, well, comprehend?

Why not? An additional form costs one karma. Adding 3 additional forms to a force 4 ally would cost 3 karma and require a TN 7 conjuring test.

Disagree. I look at it the same way as the critter split intelligence scores.

Nothing, see Critters. See that slash by Intelligence?

~J

Ritual of Change, 112, "Even though the magician is only changing the spirit's design, he must use the original ally formula for the ritual of change."

Ally Formula, 111, "Each formula is specific and may only be used to conjure an ally with specific forms, Attributes and so on."

Thusly, forms are done in the formula, which is what the ritual of change changes, and can be added with a ritual of change.

O, so *that's* what that means!

...wow, did I earn my nick there or what?

I never said there was. I was merely answering toturi (whom I even quoted in my post).

Not a big deal, but not necessarily canon. Everything that can be changed in that Ritual of Change is specified in rules. Each is given a cost, which is mostly different from the original conjuring cost. Extra Forms are not listed as something that can be added during the RoC. You also couldn't add Sense Link if you didn't include it in the original summoning.

The only time a Perception test is mentioned is in the section on the Astral Watch Power. It can be argued that this anomaly only applies when using that Power (for some strange reason).

Note that, IIRC, the Ally Spirit's stats for Intelligence are not listed in the same manner as Critters who have a different Intelligence and Perception rating. In pretty much all cases where the Critter's stat is different, it is the Perception part that is igher than the actual Intelligence part.

Yeah sorry about that. Now that I've actually gotten some sleep I don't know why I even made that reply.

Care to respond to my justification to adding extra forms then?