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torzzzzz
Right I have had a long day and I am just about to hit the sack, and thought I would leave this one for you all to mull over!

looking through M & M and saw a picky of a cyber dog, can you do it, what would the essence cost for the dog be? availability on parts?

don't you think it would be so cool to turn up on a run with a kick ass cyber dog that has a faster reaction than an elf on speed? eek.gif

Let me know what you think as I think it would be great to create!

I will see what you have all come up with when I am bored at work tomorrow!

night!

torz x twirl.gif
Crimsondude 2.0
Essence 6 according to p.48 of the Denver Gamemaster Book.

And yes, you can cyber an animal. They just have a nasty habit of going... nuts.
Ancient History
Ah, c'mon guys. Again?
Crimsondude 2.0
Again?

I answered a simple question. Christ.
hermit
I think essence cost for animals was 2x the listed cost for humans, and animals get a "freak out" roll repeatedly when cybered, depending on their essence (something along the 10 - essence lines).
Ancient History
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
Again?

I answered a simple question. Christ.

Sorry. FLashback to the many "Let's build a better cyberdog!" threads.

That cyber-terrier was scary as Hell. Not to mention the Dwarf riding dog and the stealth attack poodle.
Mortax
QUOTE (Ancient History)
That cyber-terrier was scary as Hell. Not to mention the Dwarf riding dog and the stealth attack poodle.

.......stealth attack poodle?...

Oh,my. Thank you. It has been a long time since I fell out of my chair laughing. rotfl.gif

Yes, animals are able to be cybered. Are they controllable afterwards, that is another question. Then again, I sometimes have a hard time processing how the sam with .01 essence is a jolly guy that everyone loves. Dunno, just think if you hack out large sections of your body and replace them, you might be a bit different afterwards.

As to a dogs essence, I thought it was 6, but i don't have mybooks on me so I'm likly wrong. Inever lokked that up before. smile.gif
Catsnightmare
Go download the free PDF of the Critters books. All the animal cybering rules are in it.
FlakJacket
QUOTE (Mortax)
...stealth attack poodle?

Simple enough. Just spray paint the thing black and have it's vocals cords surgically altered so it can't make a noise. wink.gif
Aes
QUOTE (FlakJacket)
QUOTE (Mortax @ Mar 9 2005, 12:51 AM)
...stealth attack poodle?

Simple enough. Just spray paint the thing black and have it's vocals cords surgically altered so it can't make a noise. wink.gif

Nah. you gotta cover it in ruthetium and give it dikoted teeth
Edward
QUOTE (FlakJacket)
QUOTE (Mortax @ Mar 9 2005, 12:51 AM)
...stealth attack poodle?

Simple enough. Just spray paint the thing black and have it's vocals cords surgically altered so it can't make a noise. wink.gif

And that surgical procedure has been around for centuries.

Edward
Weredigo
QUOTE
And yes, you can cyber an animal. They just have a nasty habit of going... nuts.
If that's the case why not go ahead and cyber a cat. They're automatically nuts
Kagetenshi
I need to pull out a CHOMPS-2000 sometime soon.

Cybered cats are scary. Keep in mind that Reaction is used for combat skill.

~J
Weredigo
Yes but they are also Clean, Affectionate, and unlike Dogs are Territorial Hunters. If you ask me, perfect for keeping the Apartment safe... or the back of the van, or the bar...
torzzzzz
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Ah, c'mon guys. Again?

Sorry wasn't around when this was last done?

inputs great though!

torz x biggrin.gif
DrJest
AH is the master of Thread-Fu smile.gif

Incidentally, I wasn't around for the last trip out of the bag on this one either - anyone got a good link?

EDIT: I think you'll find some security companies have licences for cyber animals in the same way they get them for paranimals. Soon as my Corporate Security Handbook shows, I'll try for a page ref.
torzzzzz
QUOTE (DrJest)
AH is the master of Thread-Fu smile.gif

Incidentally, I wasn't around for the last trip out of the bag on this one either - anyone got a good link?

EDIT: I think you'll find some security companies have licences for cyber animals in the same way they get them for paranimals. Soon as my Corporate Security Handbook shows, I'll try for a page ref.

Thanks!

I just want a crome doggy! hehehehe


torz x rotfl.gif
Edward
QUOTE (DrJest)
AH is the master of Thread-Fu smile.gif

Given the fact that I donít recall any discussions on the subject I might go so far as to say the aptly named master. nyahnyah.gif smile.gif

Edward
Garland
A small group of cybered guard dogs gave the runners fits in a one-shot I ran. It was brutal. I think the 'ware was:

- plastic lacing
- dermal plate 1
- boosted 2
- dikoted cyberfangs
- injector full of kamikaze
- injector full of neurostun (to retrieve the dogs after deployment)
Crusher Bob
The minute you really borg up a dog is the minute it becomes more valueable than all those normal security guards. This might lead to some interesting moments, where the crop is concerened about its valueable cyber animals, but could care less what happens to the guards.

The best bet is probably in phenotype altered guard animals... Since you can breed and train them pretty quickly (and cheaply) once you get a modification done.

Some somthing like a chitin covered (armor-3) guard dog with the equivalten of synaptic accel 1 is probably a much more viable option that dogs that you have to borg up individually. Besides, this lets you come up with some really wierd stuff.

Hmm, guard dinosaurs...
Garland
Not really. Everything but the boosted and lacing is reusable. Though if I went with wired, that could theoretically be re-used... Hmmm...

The way I used them was for the handler to have one on a leash (deterrent), and the rest in the kennel. During intrusion situations, the handler immediately turned his loose and he and the rest of the guards sprinted for the security blockhouse while the kennel was opened. The guards then would open fire on the intruders (concentrating on the "out-of-reach" ones like levitating mages or guys in vehicles) while the dogs did their thing. It's pretty effective when you spring it on a gang of runners that came armed for a shootout, rather than a melee tangle with dogs.
Zolhex
Nanotech, Genetherpy, both are good ways I would think to make a better gaurddog maybe a small amount of bioware to round them out after breeding.

Now there is a thought genetically engineer a big cat (tiger, lion, ect. ect.) toss in some nano and bio nice pet.

Now to get Bitrunner to let me make one for Shadowrun Missions lol.
Kagetenshi
Cyber is a much better choice than nanotech or genetherapy. Remember, you're gonna want to do something with the 'ware after the pooch bites the dust.

~J
Apathy
After you've enhanced critters with gene therapy, do the enhancements automatically pass on to their progeny? If so, then gene therapy would be the most cost efficient type of enhancement for critters in any large corp.

From a purely rules-lawyer perspective, I'd think you can get the best bang for your buck via
Bio:
  • venom sacs (gamma-scop.)
  • suprathyroid
  • adrenal pump
  • enh. articulation.
Cyber:
  • Wired Reflexes
  • Reaction Enhancers

What about armor? In RL, we now supply police dogs with kevlar vests; what kind of armor would corp security dogs in 2064 have?
Smed
It would be kind of fun to give them Cerebral Boosters, make them a bit smarter than your average dogs.
Apathy
QUOTE
It would be kind of fun to give them Cerebral Boosters, make them a bit smarter than your average dogs.

Would your Int 2 (+2)/4 dogs have troll-level intelligence, then?
Thomas
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Cyber is a much better choice than nanotech or genetherapy. Remember, you're gonna want to do something with the 'ware after the pooch bites the dust.

~J

Of course, this brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'screw the pooch'

(and bolt him, and rivet...)
Apathy
An old link to SR2 cyber-doggies: Electrocurs
Nikoli
Anyone else flashing to the 3 doberman's in Remo Williams?
DrJest
QUOTE (Thomas)
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Cyber is a much better choice than nanotech or genetherapy. Remember, you're gonna want to do something with the 'ware after the pooch bites the dust.

~J

Of course, this brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'screw the pooch'

(and bolt him, and rivet...)

You can yiff on your own time, old son!

(God dammit, I have GOT to stop reading Something Positive before posting round here...)
DocMortand
QUOTE (DrJest)
QUOTE (Thomas @ Mar 10 2005, 09:19 PM)
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Cyber is a much better choice than nanotech or genetherapy. Remember, you're gonna want to do something with the 'ware after the pooch bites the dust.

~J

Of course, this brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'screw the pooch'

(and bolt him, and rivet...)

You can yiff on your own time, old son!

(God dammit, I have GOT to stop reading Something Positive before posting round here...)

Just as long as you don't create those hick violating trees in SR... Be funny to have a shadowrun go REALLY wrong when the group has to go through a bunch of trees to get to the target....
toturi
QUOTE (Smed)
It would be kind of fun to give them Cerebral Boosters, make them a bit smarter than your average dogs.

Ahhh, why not give those cyber to a Horned Bear and call him Yogi?
hahnsoo
QUOTE (DocMortand)
Just as long as you don't create those hick violating trees in SR... Be funny to have a shadowrun go REALLY wrong when the group has to go through a bunch of trees to get to the target....

A Redwood metavariant of Sangre Del Diablos? indifferent.gif
toturi
QUOTE (hahnsoo)
QUOTE (DocMortand @ Mar 10 2005, 09:10 PM)
Just as long as you don't create those hick violating trees in SR...  Be funny to have a shadowrun go REALLY wrong when the group has to go through a bunch of trees to get to the target....

A Redwood metavariant of Sangre Del Diablos? indifferent.gif

I almost forgot: The Sangre Del Diablos with the Enhanced Articulation, Mnemonic Enhancer and Synaptic Accelerator mutations and Cerebral Booster cyberware!

A smart tree.
hahnsoo
QUOTE (toturi)
A smart tree.

"You're some sort of big, fat, smart-tree, aren't you?"
DocMortand
Okay, I think the probably way to go for creating the hick tree has been figured out - now exactly how are you going to engineer the desire for said trees to bugger people from the rear?

[edit] I can't believe I'm actually considering helping create this using canon laws...
BitBasher
Compulsion: Cornhole Victim (Self only) wink.gif grinbig.gif
Fortune
Experimental Psychotropic conditioning?
hahnsoo
Specters of hillbillies that died during the Western expansion, possessing the tree?
Crusher Bob
If you've caught a runner team, just give them some massive internal injuries, alter their memories, implant compulsion to spread the word, and then let them go. No one in the shadow community will want to break into your place again...

The main advantage of animals will largely be their advanced senses. In a world where you can relatively cheaply give the same senses to people (low light, olfatory boost, enhanced hearing, etc) then the only real justification for animals if that they provide those senses in a cheaper fashion than the cyber-guards do. Why have a cyber dog that might have a 5 year useful lifespan, when you can have a cyber guard at basically the same price with a 10-15 year lifespan?

This is why I think that the breedable gene modified animals show the most promise. If you can develop a breeding population, there are very low additional costs (past the R&D) and the gestation times, etc are comparatively low...
torzzzzz
QUOTE (Crusher Bob)
If you've caught a runner team, just give them some massive internal injuries, alter their memories, implant compulsion to spread the word, and then let them go. No one in the shadow community will want to break into your place again...

The main advantage of animals will largely be their advanced senses. In a world where you can relatively cheaply give the same senses to people (low light, olfatory boost, enhanced hearing, etc) then the only real justification for animals if that they provide those senses in a cheaper fashion than the cyber-guards do. Why have a cyber dog that might have a 5 year useful lifespan, when you can have a cyber guard at basically the same price with a 10-15 year lifespan?

This is why I think that the breedable gene modified animals show the most promise. If you can develop a breeding population, there are very low additional costs (past the R&D) and the gestation times, etc are comparatively low...

And multiple births to cut down on the cost!

could work but you have to have the nuyen.gif to do it and the place etc!

Like the idea but would not knowhow to go about doing it?

Anyone got any ideas?

torz x wink.gif
fistandantilus4.0
Sad but true: Once had a run in with a cybered cow.

The legs were replaced and would jack it's self up and auto milk. Somethings are better left alone.


Then there's the killer attack chicken....
Crusher Bob
hmm?

Basically I'd assume it would work something like this:

Genetech company makes animal, and produces first 'prototypes'
2nd company/division takes over breeding/training animals
Other companies/divisions then just order trained animals for $

As for what the actual stats of such animals would be...

Notice that the 'extreme' bioware will not produce viable bodies, just the bioware. However, you might be able to fit in some of the lesser bioware...

So take a normal big dog.

Add say: synaptic 1 and a super thyroid. If you can shoehorn it in, a memonic enchancer, making them much easier to train...

This would give a 'large dog' the following stats:

B 4
Q 5 (x5)
S 4
I 2/4
W 2
Init 5 + 2d6

and a 7M? (normal dogs have 6M) attack

Order you trained doggie for maybe 15K slap an armored vest on him and you are good to go...

Assuming they are much easier and cheaper to keep than the Barghest and Hellhound (your other 'enhanced guard dog' options) and you can see plenty of medium security places ordering enhanced guard dogs...

[edit]
hmm, using a wolf as the base animal gives you the following:
B 6
Q 6 (x4) (is the x5 for the dog a typo?)
S 5
I 3/4
W 2
Init 6 + 3d6
Attack 8M

That's much meaner, and still the same critter... who knew there was so much in a name?
[/edit]

torzzzzz
LOL

Torz x smile.gif
DocMortand
QUOTE (BitBasher)
Compulsion: Cornhole Victim (Self only) wink.gif grinbig.gif

Nah - it'd have to be something more sinister like capture intruder THEN cornhole 'em.

You know, at this point I think I'm just going to leave it alone because it's beginning to sound like japanese school girls are going to get involved any second...

How about 'dem Cubbies?
Garland
QUOTE (Crusher Bob)
Why have a cyber dog that might have a 5 year useful lifespan, when you can have a cyber guard at basically the same price with a 10-15 year lifespan?

Because you only have to feed the dog, not give it a break-room, worry about it unionizing, pension it when it retires, take care of its family when it gets killed, take precautions against it defecting to another corp with all the dirty deeds it has seen.
Apathy
QUOTE
That's much meaner, and still the same critter... who knew there was so much in a name?

It gets worse:
Looking the size table in critters, you can get extremely large versions of any normal critter that are 50% larger than normal, with up to +5 in all physical stats.
[ Spoiler ]


It makes sense that corps would have a much cheaper time breeding the largest examples of mundane dogs instead of cybering up their mutts. So (even though it doesn't make sense) the largest of large dogs could be:
B 8; Q 9 (x5); S 9; I 2/4; W 2; Init 5 + 1d6

More realistic stats for large dog/wolf hybrid could use the baseline wolf stats you list.
Then, outfit them with doggie vests with dikoted plates (5/4), Form Fitting Body Stocking(2/1), and control collars that deliver injections of Kamakaze via remote control, and you end up with
B 6; Q 6; S 7; I 2/4; W 3; Init 6+3D6; Att 9M; Cbt Pl 6; Armor (6/4)

Once you've got the breeding stock, it wouldn't be expensive to get more (5-10K per). The armor and control harnesses might be expensive, but they're re-usable and easier to move from dog-to-dog than the cyber would've been.

For the cost of 1 cyber-mutt, you could easily keep 10 of these guys in the kennel, and they're more controllable.
DocMortand
QUOTE (Apathy)
QUOTE
That's much meaner, and still the same critter... who knew there was so much in a name?

It gets worse:
Looking the size table in critters, you can get extremely large versions of any normal critter that are 50% larger than normal, with up to +5 in all physical stats.
[ Spoiler ]


It makes sense that corps would have a much cheaper time breeding the largest examples of mundane dogs instead of cybering up their mutts. So (even though it doesn't make sense) the largest of large dogs could be:
B 8; Q 9 (x5); S 9; I 2/4; W 2; Init 5 + 1d6

More realistic stats for large dog/wolf hybrid could use the baseline wolf stats you list.
Then, outfit them with doggie vests with dikoted plates (5/4), Form Fitting Body Stocking(2/1), and control collars that deliver injections of Kamakaze via remote control, and you end up with
B 6; Q 6; S 7; I 2/4; W 3; Init 6+3D6; Att 9M; Cbt Pl 6; Armor (6/4)

Once you've got the breeding stock, it wouldn't be expensive to get more (5-10K per). The armor and control harnesses might be expensive, but they're re-usable and easier to move from dog-to-dog than the cyber would've been.

For the cost of 1 cyber-mutt, you could easily keep 10 of these guys in the kennel, and they're more controllable.

So should we design Fluffy? (from Harry Potter I) Use a Cerberus Hound at max size...
Req
You want badass, look to Threats 2, with the
[ Spoiler ]


Don't remember how the stats were calculated, but I assume there was a fair bit of booty-kicking capability. Plus somewhat smart, and under full control at all times...and dual-natured...
hahnsoo
QUOTE (BitBasher)
Compulsion: Cornhole Victim (Self only) wink.gif grinbig.gif
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