Hey now. I am not now, nor have I ever been a developer. Freelancer, madman, occasional complete and utter ass...

Touche!

Ok, than let's pretend that I wrote "freelancer hat" instead.

Very good then, yes.

I miss Canray. I havent seen much of him lately. I rather enjoyed his take on things.

I'd vote those that make me Laugh among the Top 10
that makes Stahlseele one of them
and Those that contribute in a Positive Matter
that would be
AH,Larme,Knasser,Toturi among some of the others
and than those that I know a little bit better from the German Forums.

with a Top 10 Dance
Medicineman

I don't know about "liked" or "respected" by the board generally, but speaking for myself, I never just skim past (or through) your posts when I am reading a thread, so take that as you will (there are plenty of people who I frequently DO skim right past). I have no problem getting into a discussion with you. If I am looking for a rules clarification, I am always glad to see your name pop up in the responses.

I'd certainly agree with that. Seeing a Muspellsheimr post is always going to be something I read. He knows his rules and he takes a hard stance on exactly as they are written. The couple times I contributed to a debate was due to arguing the intention of said rules, which is always a grey area.

Wait...

There was an intention when they wrote the rules?

Trippy...

Sorry, couldn't resist.

*grin*

You know, as much as any one of us here would like to be in the "Top Ten" does it really matter? I mean, for myself, I know that I would never be in the top ten because I piss off too many people.

We are all here to have fun and talk about a great game system (some fluff leave MUCH to be desired) and that all that really matters.

Well I think another poster summed it up quite nicely eariler but personally I think these kind of threads are "light fun" and a nice change of pace from time to time.

...wow, the short one is missed?

Yeah, been over on the 3D CG forums a lot lately but still drop by to lurk. Since 4th ed pretty much dominates the majority of discussions I feel there is little for me to contribute. Even though I own most of the SR4 PDFs I still prefer 3rd ed for personal reasons.

Have recently reopened my Rhapsody in Shadow campaign with a group of players who really are grooving on the intrigue. Nice to See Tiger Eyes mentioned. She is on my "top ten" list as well. Occasionally still hear from Canray over on DeviantArt.

...well gotta cut this short the Bistro I'm at is closing. Will try to make it a point to drop by more frequently.

That's probably the whole reason. As soon as you drop of the radar on the internets, people tend to forget.
Also, please DO try and post more. I, personally, like your style ^^

...thanks. Just wish there was more 3rd ed and general SR discussion. A lot of times I get onto a thread with an interesting theme only to find out it is talking about 4th.

I haven't played/GM'd 4th ed in well over a year and a half now and am totally out of the loop on everything relating to it.


...you know that you have been away too long when it takes you 3 - 4 tries to remember your password.

yeah, that's an . . unpretty trend sadly <.< . .
echo the password thing x.x

LOL!

Whew. I was gettin' worried no one was gonna get the joke.

Dude, what's up with the past tense? I'm still alive ya' know. I've just been swarmed with kids and work and weird hours. I get to yell at people "professionally", so a llittle finger waggling here is an easy day.

Wow! Dig up a thread I started and got slammed over. I was kind of glad when it went softly into that dark night.


Critias is a guy, someone who I initially hated and have grown to like. I'll figure it is because he has matured a bit, or maybe his wrath isn't pointed at me so often anymore. Before meeting him, I would have sworn he was red skinned with horns a tail and cloven hooves.

Which brings to mind actually meeting DSers in person after forming a mental image of them from their posts. I think back to how surprising meeting in the meat usually was, and will admit I enjoyed meeting all of you.


I won't try finding my list, but I always enjoyed reading Fist's, Doc's and Cain's posts. I really enjoyed reading Frank's when 4th edition came along. As someone mentioned some of us old guys being left behind by the edition change, I will definitely put myself in that category. It is nice to see all the new members joining and making their contributions to the discussions, but it is a rare discussion any more that interests me. I remember reading every thread back in the day - afraid I might be missing out on something. And as someone else mentioned this being the 1st site they came to upon getting online, I will go a bit further and admit it was Shadowrun that caused me to get online and Dumpshock was the first site I came to upon searching for SR. The day was the same day FASA put out the press release they were quitting SR. I forget exactly how it was worded, but I don't think a new owner was discussed at that time.

Knasser - I put off any fiction contests for a while because there was a chance I might be running the fiction section on the Shadowrun site. At least I volunteered and was put on hold by other pressing matters by Peter/Synner. I didn't want to compete and thought it would be more prestigious for the authors to get their work posted on the official site than through my little contests. That seems to have passed, I seem to be less interested in SR in general these days, and I was kind of busy with life for a while. Then again, the last few winners seemed let down that the prizes were from my collection of mainly 1st and 2nd edition books with a sprinkling of 3rd edition - in short, no 4th edition as I barely have single copies much less multiples.

Ah well, kind of rambling and way off topic, so...

What can I say Fisty, it's been awhile since I've gotten yelled at so I missed you.

Guess I have to start flaming more.

I just realized that i actually have built totality fictional Caricatures of so many of you.
I look froward to actually seeing some faces at gen-con next week.

I thought about suspending your account for 15 minutes just for grins. Just didn't know if you'd find the humor in it.

Too bad ComicCon isn't such a handy meet- spot for SR players. I'm kinda curious what people think I look like. Someone said they thought I looked like a thug once after seeing a pic of me. For some reason they imagined there being glasses.

I think I'd have gone through withdrawal.

I always assumed that you look like your picture... a somehwt furry mammal with fuzzy ears...

Careful... the ears are a sensitive subject.

I can see how that would be...

close aproxamations to my mental immages

Bull

AH

Backgammon

KK

first

Man, if you ever see my facebook page you're gonna be sorely disappointed.

What, no links?

Those who wish to can find me. How many Bobby D's are fans of Shadowrun?

Was that supposed to be "Fist" by chance? That's actually how I pitcure Grinder.

I wish. Richard Moll is awesome.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3460...mp;id=621635972
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3337...mp;id=621635972
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=3337...mp;id=621635972

(That last Pic is Caine_Hazen in the hat and Redjack in the Elf Ears)

typo sorry.

ravor you icon IS my mental image of you.

Needs a cigar to complete the image.

Sheesh, hated? Hated? Here I was ready for a "mildly disliked" or "had a moderate distaste towards," but hated? Man. Tough crowd!

I'll admit that it's possible my wife of these last four years of so may have mellowed me out a bit (though I doubt it, since I often call her over to show her a forum exchange and get a chuckle out of her), but...I dunno. I wouldn't so much say I've matured as...just...moved on (not necessarily moved up, but at least moved away), and care about different stuff now. There's still plenty here on the interwebs that I get riled up about, but how other people play Shadowrun, and what edition of Shadowrun other people enjoy, just doesn't get to me like it used to. I've still got my share of warnings on other internet forums, and there are still folks who are surprised at the lack of horns, pitchfork, and hooves when I run into them face to face at a convention, but...well...meh. It's just not this any more.

At least, not as often.


For what it's worth, you're not the only one that sort of thing has happened to. I've got six stories, at about 5,000 words apiece, that I put together for some serial fiction that -- apparently -- they changed their mind about after the fact. Then, after being told to wait for a face-to-face, a handshake, and a promise to give me more information at a conversation in person, I've spent about a year now (since Gencon last year, really) having PMs and emails completely ignored about a different writing project that I was even more excited about.

I hold out hope, because Shadowrun was my first RPG ever and one that's meant a lot to me through the years (heck, playing this game is how I met my wife)...but despite me becoming a pretty established freelancer, and despite me making multiple offers multiple times to multiple of their people that were -- each at the time -- in charge of this sort of thing, they don't seem interested. So oh well. I'll wait, and try again in a year or two, I guess.

For what it's worth, I know the winner of two of those contests -- me -- was absolutely thrilled to be able to get his grubby paws on some of the older stuff. Call it nostalgia, call it out of print stuff being harder to find, call it 1st and 2nd edition having more (or at least different) fluff, call it my vague-but-omnipresent distaste for 4th edition, call it whatever...but in my opinion it absolutely rocked to be able to get ahold of stuff like Bug City from you. I can go to any old game store I want to and pick up Arsenal or Runner Havens. Being able to choose from among 1st and 2nd edition books was fantastic. I certainly appreciated it, and appreciated the contests in general. It was an awesome gesture on your part.

Yep, it was tough choosing you as winner, but I tried to be objective. I think it came from stuff I had seen on this forum and others. I think I called you a member of a matrix gang once.

<snip>


I made the suggestion to Peter/Synner, told him he could see some of the results of what I was doing just by looking at the contest, then (upon request for editing ability) submitted a before and after story that I did extensive editing upon and suggestions I made for improving it such as a few more details and a chance to throw in some symbolism. The only response I got after that was that I wasn't forgotten, but things were changing and hectic. A while late came the announcement Peter/Synner was stepping down. I don't know the new people and doubt they know I am even interested in helping.

I think Knasser mentioned Elissa Carey. She's an old time Dumpshocker known as Pistons. Seemed like we argued a lot even when I agreed with her.

<snip>


Thanks.

[edit]just looked up Pistons spelling of her name, but too late.[/edit]

Elissa Carey, I believe. I originally wrote Dark King as a story for the Shadowrun website. I put a lot of time into it. I got some editing advice from the then editor Robyn King-Nitschke who was helpful and responsive. After some extensive re-writing, she / he okay'd it for the site but said that the editor position had been passed on to Elissa. She told me to re-write it to add one of the Shadowrun core characters (which really did not fit and ended up jarring badly). But it got accepted a second time. And that was it. It sat in Limbo for about a year. I occasionally emailed to enquire what the status was, spaced politely some months apart. I didn't get replies. Eventually I was told that it was being handed on to the new editor (someone from Catalyst, I forget his name, but I think he liked writing himself). I was further ignored and eventually tisoz ran one of his competitions and I entered it in that instead. I did email them to let them know that I was withdrawing my submission and why, but unsurprisingly I got no reply. I spent a lot of time on my work for them and the whole experience has left me with a pretty bitter feeling toward the whole fiction crew there. Not least because I have had had private correspondence with a number of other people who have been similarly treated and felt similarly alienated. I've raised the prospect of Shadowrun fiction a number of times on this site or emailed people at FanPro / Catalyst to enquire about it. It's been met with disinterest every time. I have tried to stimulate interest by demonstrating how much talent there is out there with things like the Vignette thread or waving my own stories at them. Nothing again and again.

As a result, I now plough my writing energies into non-Shadowrun work. I tried for two years and achieved nothing but getting myself angry with each attempt. The impression I have got over time is that somebody there sees people submitting fiction as hopeful supplicants that can be ignored or rewarded with the blessing of their approval when in fact, there is a wealth of talent out here from people who strongly enjoy contributing to a setting they have invested a lot of time in that should be looked at with appreciation.

I am angry about the whole dismal mess that is Shadowrun fiction.

K.

I think Robyn is another old time Dumpshocker who went by winterhawk11. I think she also ran the Shadowrun Writer's Forum. Maybe not a top 10 Dumpshock poster, but definitely a Top 10 Shadowrun supporter.


Then let's change it. The Shadowrun Writer's Forum used to be active with 3 or 4 people there every time I visited. It has died an inglorious death and could be revived or replaced. Or Fiction could get posted here. I dare say Dumpshock gets more traffic than ANY Shadowrun site including the official one. I would be happy to edit, beta read, or just comment on peoples fiction. I am sure others would also. Not to mention those that would like to read a good story.

Winterhawk - yes. That was her name here. She should definitely be in my top 10 just for how helpful she was to me. Her Shadowrun writers forum is still there, but seldom posted to. I posted a couple of times to it some time ago, but it was sparse even back then.

One option would be to try and re-kindle that site. I think Robyn (based only on previous correspondence with her, unfortunately I don't really know her), would be fine with that. I don't know whether or not she would take interest in an active role with it or not. The advantage is that it has some history there and is all ready all set up.

One option would be to nag for a fiction section here on Dumpshock. That has the advantage that it is in a convenient place. It has the disadvantage that it is very much not independent and inevitably no-one looks outside of the main Shadowrun topic area. Doable though.

One option would be for me to volunteer my own site. I get a lot of traffic there - around 350 distinct sessions from visitors a week (and that's going to go through the roof when the Revised Matrix Examples document goes live). Advantages are that I have as much bandwidth as anyone can ever use and I'm not going anywhere. Barring a meteor strike, I'm happy to keep that site going for decades. And it's maintained - I can do whatever nice formatting or other features are thought desirable. Also, it's independent.

You're willing to edit. Well that's fantastic because I know you're very capable in that role. If the burden needs a bit of sharing, I'm less experienced but could do some. What I can definitely offer is layout and publishing assistance. It was talked about before, that I create a PDF of the work from some of your previous competitions. I obtained permissions from a number of the writers. I think the rest would be happy also. I'm not an expert in Desktop Publishing, but I can do it fairly well. I would quite willingly pay to commission some half-decent artwork for a cover. After all - you've donated all those source books over the years. Obviously this would have to be all a non-profit, fan-effort which is a shame as you can get things going very easily with Print on Demand but that doesn't matter too much.

I've gone beyond what you're talking about with talk of compiling stories into an anthology, but why not? It gives something lovely to work toward and if we're going to do Shadowrun fiction anyway, then there's little extra work in compiling some PDFs (except for me, and I like that sort of thing).

How many competitions have you run, tisoz? Maybe if people are moving on from 1st and 2nd edition and you're feeling your prizes aren't appreciated anymore, maybe you could give back something even more precious - good editing skills and the chance to be immortalised in the independent Shadowrun fiction anthology?

How about all this? We're in the middle of a Top 10 Dumpshock Posters thread here. How about dropping me an email at K@knasser.me.uk (along with anyone else with some thoughts on this). My mate who did my website for me owes me a favour seeing as he nicks all my material for his own Shadowrun game) and I'm sure he could set up a writer's forum in no time if I pester him. Dumpshock may make more sense and I admit that I feel setting up a forum on my own site appealing... I think there are some pros to not doing it under the auspices of Dumpshock, but what do you think? It's your idea. I think if we tried to schedule a regular release of fiction then it would be a strong factor in building and sustaining an interested group. I know there's an existing body of work already available that could keep us going with a monthly short story for at least the next seven months.

K.

I was just going to suggest collecting the fiction on your own. While its very appealing to a writer to be accepted as "official" by appearing in a published book or company sponsored PDF, official approval doesn't make the writing any better, IMO.

I think if you are willing to stick with (and it sounds like you are if you would be willing to host for decades) and tisoz or others are willing to edit and keep the submissions to a high standard, you have all that you need. If the work is good, people will come. If the standards are high, more people will be wanting to submit something for that "acceptance".

And as you said, these days, publishing on demand and PDF tools are available to any of us. So with a little creativity, effort and time, you can be putting out some high quality looking stuff with great content to boot.

I'd certainly be interested in contributing, as both a content submitter and to help with editing if the submissions have high volume...

Dumpshock isn't the official Shadowrun site? Huh!  


Vlad

Just wishful thinking on toturi's part. And several others, I imagine.

(You can blame Plan B for me coming here again.)

Dr. F.: That post you just replied to was made in March 2005. Now I know you haven't been gone that long!

This got me thinking - has anyone seen Fortune recently?

Also keep in mind there is a difference between Suspended and Banned.

Suspended is Temporary. Banned is permanent.

And as far as I can recall, we've only had maybe 5 Bans since these forums went online back in the Deep Resonance days. A couple were from the DR days, and didn't carry over (and I think both of those folks have since popped their heads in here once or twice). Another asked for it, literally, for some reason. <shrug>

(This of course does not count Spam accounts, which we will sometimes ban to prevent from posting further spam)

Bull

Nope...There is no official forums for Shadowrun. I am hoping that will change when Holostreets starts up,
what with it being advertised in the SR4A PDF(and dumpshock actually NOT mentioned at all, so, dumpshock
is not even the official unofficial site!)

Why on Earth would you want an "official" site?

I made that particular post a really really long time back.

Let's move the fiction discussion to Community Projects.

Nice to see you post, Doc. Isn't Plan B fistandantilus4.0 wife? Game with them?

I'll admit, you are one person I wonder what you look like. Gamer Geek or charismatic all around cool dude, either wouldn't surprise me or anything in between.

Well, at least in germany there is an official shadowrun board . . but that one is kinda dull and seems dead compared to dumpshock ^^
Also, Dr.F, nice to have you back on board ^^

I have asked for bans on my accounts too, because i know i can not simply stop going somewhere, if someone else does not stop me.
I have especially done this when i had finals to take for example.

And that's the way, uh huh-uh huh, we like it.


Vlad