Why not? Why not offer a free pdf of Just the rules changes. None of the setting info, none of the unchanged rules?

Has this ever been tried before - in any game that has gone trhough several revisions?
And did it fail? Or Suceed?

It works better for board games than RPGs.

I can sympathize though, I bought my SR2 book late and ended up having to buy my SR3 book about 2 weeks later because everyone in my area switched. Well, the only reason I bought a new SR3 book earlier this year was because my old one was disintergrating. I can honestly say though this is not a ridiculous move. The 3.0 vs 3.5 debate with that other game... THAT was ridiculous. They had already turned that game into a table top Diablo match and then decided that the much ballyhooed changes they had made were in fact broken, prompting so many more changes that THEY HAD to re-release a new rules set. And how much time had gone by? Yeah... the SR situation doesn't even begin to approach that level of absurdity.

The only case I can think of off the top of my head was the change from D&D 3.0 to 3.5 where they put out a product similar to what your talking about, but the rule changes between those two versions were minimal and were going to be available via the OGL anyway.

Not if you are a book-ninja. Ninjas trump lawyers.

Oh, please. Do you think every SR player out there is on the cutting edge of SOTA when it comes to SR? I know of people who are still playing with 1e rules. To even suggest that you won't be able to find a single game anyway, IRL or online, to play SR3 simply because of three 2005 Q4 releases, you have either very little interest in playing, or are full of shit.

I don't know how long you've gamed. I don't really care, either. But I have books from 1e, 2e, 3e, and will preorder 4e on Stiggybaby. I've invested several hundred dollars on the more than 50 SR books I have, most of which are out-of-date and completely different in rules and setting from SR3. However, that was a cost I accepted when I decided to continue playing Shadowrun and bought the SR2 books and supplements, and then SR3 and the supplements. It's a continuous expense, and it is not in any way unexpected for someone to have to incur expenses in pursuing their hobby.

But moreover, this reminds me of the people complaining about the "end" of the WoD lines. You only have to play the game the way you want to. There aren't game police who are going to bust down the door because you don't buy SR4 the day it hits the shelves.

After 6.5 years, it has become clear that SR3 has suffered a critical mass of rules bloat. It is too fractured, too uncoordinated, and too scattered to be played easily without having to use multiple books. Sure you can run with the SR3 book, but at a point you start handwaving rather than use the rules FASA/FanPro has written in anticipation of your question.

And you know why I say this? It's because that's what the developers said!

I think it's safe to take them at their word. But really, this is simply a hobby game. It 's not a required expense, and I am sure that you can survive using the SR3 rules in the SR4 universe (which is what I did with SR2 and 3 until I caught up). Moreover, there are 5 or 6 unaccounted for years in which you will have free reign in which to do whatever you like with the SR3 rules because aside from SC and CE, there are no chances of FanPro micromanaging your game until your group reaches 2070 and hits the wall of SR4. And even then, you can continue to use the SR3 rules in the SR4 setting, and you can do what a lot of us have done with the rules that SR4 will replace--ditch them and use houserules. What do you know? Perhaps the houserules will be like Wireknight's and be well thought-ough, playtested, evaluated, and torn apart by fickle users until they gain acceptance in your group.

Or you can buy a couple of SR4 sourcebooks. After all, what else would you be spending that money on if there was no SR4? SR3 supplements, perhaps? What's the difference? It's all the same world, but ultimately, it's YOUR world.

So get a grip already.

Fan loyalty means more to them when the fans are complaining about having to go through 3 books to get the rules for Small Unit Tactics. Fan loyalty means being loyal to your fan base, and over the last several years the fan base--especially through this very medium--has proven to be restless when it comes to the rules. You say "fan loyalty?" What do you know? FanPro is being loyal to its fans by putting out a better quality product in part through the imput of its more hardcore fans who populate sites like Dumpshock and Shadowland. You don't know what you're talking about.

You think this is a money-making venture? I'd be surprised if they even reap a small profit in 2005 because of the expenditures they face putting out SR4. But what do you know?

No.

We don't know for sure, but... Why not?

The following sourcebooks will lead the world towards 2070.

What? Money wise?

It's hoped for. *g* But the general impression on this first date of the announcement is: Streamlining. Less useless fuzz.

See answer above.

It seems so. Perhaps not vastly, but seriously.

No idea as of sofar.

Chargen will be different than that, I suppose...

More importantly, I see no reason it would change your game.

Yeah, and I think it's an important question. I think it can make or break a game what it sells for.

Worst case scenario: Seattle doesn't exist anymore.

As opposed to what? Psychologically?

Sorry. I'm not writing a term paper here. This is the first time I logged on today. I didn't feel like plowing thru everybody's gripes.

No, in Karma.

Yes, I meant in cash.

I guess I'm just a little shocked. We've been hearing for years "There's no plans for SR4," and then BLAM-O, "SR4 to be unvieled and next 'Con." They must've known, right? They must've been working on it for a few years, right?

I'll probably go buy it--I'm not that poor (close, though) but I just need to let the shock wear off for a little bit.

I'm not trying to be inflamatory. I'm just trying to make sense of it all.

Actually, the impression I got from 6 hours and umpteen hundred posts ago was that it's still being written.

I don't think this was entirely planned by everyone. I think that once the idea for SC/CE came out, SR4 seemed inevitable, though.

System Crash and Critical Error. The beginning of the end.

So the possibility that even a well-meaning team may screw something up doesn't occur to you?

~J

That's a possibility with anything new. Based on Shadowrun's track record with edition changes (and quality in general) I don't see anything that points to this, though. Certainly nothing that would deserve the amount of suspicion on this thread.

I think that a lot of people just don't like the idea of change -- any change.

How can anyone be convinced it's a joke at this point?

Because I'm a skeptical bastard.

Of couse I´m referring to the SRD.

Yes, it lacks the pictures (btw: the artwork of DnD is sometimes really cool), it lacks background etc. However, especially background & co hasnt changed much since PHB 3.0 and is easily combined with SRD 3.5 .

And for lord-cack: PHB = 3.5 = SRD ...

Oh, it is not totally free: you have to pay your internet connection.

SYL