You mean to tell me that there are still unpulished sourcebooks that are in the works such as System Failure, and Loose alliances,

AND THESE GUYS ARE RELEASLING A 4TH EDITION???????!!!!??????



That is messed up.


Please tell me this is an Ides of March kinda thing, cause April 1st is still a long way off.


/stalks off dumbfounded

No joke ... the coming books are the "break"-books, who will transform the sixth world to world 6.5 ...

loose alliance is a background book ... and should be compatible with 4th edition.

SYL

Yeah, that was my initial reaction too. Now I'm kinda starting to like the idea, but at the same time I have doubts about the (supposed) 4th Edition. Oh, and there's the whole buying-new-versions-of-the-old-rules-expansions-books thing. That's something I'd hope we'd be able to skip with SR4, but that's just not going to happen.

Well, the business model is:
Core book for X
Expansion books for .5 to .75 X

Write at least 15 expansion books

Cretae new edition

I hate, hate, hate revamps. I mean not because the content isn't good. Because lord knows what 3rd edition did for Dungeons and Dragons. But I thought 3.5 edition was ridiculous, and the only reason I bought a 3.5 Players Handbook was because on of my players took my Original. It is an attempt to milk the consumer. But, of course it is same said consumers fault for constant complaining and B;+ching that gets the changes made in the first place right.....

I don't think their was anything wrong with SR3, I have seen numerous posts to the contrary. But, I liked Shadowrun, not just because it was and still is a great system (I happen to like the fact that each system is separate...<begin sarcasm>I mean Brain Surgery and Open Heart Surgery are COMPLETELY different types of surgery....But, they are both surgery right...<end sarcasm>), but because it has a "roots-y" quality. It stood in the face of WotC and its fancy D20 machine. I mean it didn't do near the business, but it didn't bow and follow either.

Don't get me wrong, I know this is a business and you got to make money or things tend to fade away. But, it just somehow feels wrong.

I am not buying it, not because it won't be good, but because the company seems to be leaching on to the "Update Juggernaut" and tagging along for the ride....catch what cash falls in its wake...Because if they are hoping to catch WotC in terms of sales or even get a foothold in the market (other than what they got) then my advice would be stick with what got you there, because no change can catch OGL and D20...and that sucks.

(Note, if this is all some sort of "Early April Fools Suprise" then disreguard all prior statements)

Someone is going to pay? We all will, that is, if we actually want to own the new edition.

Why release SOTA 2064 just to release an update set 6 years in the future....I am going on the record saying this is bogus....

I would like to know where you went and Downloaded Dungeons and Dragons 3.5 Edition for $0....and for the record, I said nothing about the new system being bad, or not comparing to the other two systems...I simply stated (In more words) that I will not be purchasing the new edition because I own a perfectly fine Shadowrun Edition, I need nothing fixed....and that I think it is a way of milking the consumer...maybe not in the way I feel WotC has with DnD but none the less Milking is being done...plust as you can see by my last post...I think the whole thing is bogus...if it isn't OH well...They won't be getting my 30 bucks...

I they don't get your money, how are they "milking the customer"?

There not milking this customer...everyone else can be milked if they want (you can milk anything with nipples...)...I just enjoy complaining...and hate change....especially when things dont NEED changed....

D&D v3.5, free of charge and fully legal.

yes, darn those game companies and their evil plans to make money by selling things people want to buy.

Yes I see now...that is completely the same thing as buying the Dungeons and Dragons Players Handbook.....<end Sarcasm> Offering rules options online free (considering that the system is an OPEN liscence) is not the same as Downloading the PDF of The Dungeons and Dragons PlayersHandbook...

yes, actually, it is. it means that you can play D&D3.5 without spending a single cent. these aren't rules options, they are the rules.

I cant believe I am going to keep going rounds with someone who obviously does not see the point but here we go....No you are playing 3.5 rules set for the OGL (Open Gaming Liscence) for free....not Dungeons and Dragons...Star Wars Revised uses the same rules as 3.5 OGL...are you saying you can get Star Wars for free...or Dragon Star...or Ebberon.....or any other d20 system game...no...I get the point...it is just an invalid point...you get nothing that Makes DnD what it is... their for your not Playing DnD....

Point to this whole thing...you wont find Shadowrun rules Lying about in the same manner as the D20 3.5 rules...because Shadowrun doesn't use and Open Gaming Liscence, their for, you will have to buy the rules....

people are complete morons...OMG....this is completely pointless...the entire thing...SR4 all the way down to OGL being the same as the PHB...

Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst (note: preparing for, not predicting).

Edit: just read the actual announcement on the web site, status officially changed to "predicting". Surprise me please.

~J

*shrug* okay. i'll be the moron, for pointing out that you can play D&D 3.5e (omg it's not teh D&D beccuase it dosent have teh quivar of elohnnna!!!!1!!!) for free. but you win the moron hat for bringing it into the discussion in the first place, and then saying it's irrelevant.

I for one hope it's a joke.

I know the history of the releases. I've been in gaming a long time. I know it's their right to do as they please. But come on, this is disgusting.

Is there something wrong with third editon? Is it broke? No.

Is it Perfect? no.

Will it ever be perfect. NO!



But I'm really sick of buying new books.


Looking at the piles of old edition rpg books I have is just sickening.


Don't mind me, I'm just ranting in disgust over the situation.

Crap. I read that but it didn't sink in till just now.


O woe is us.

Would someone like to start planning the funeral?

I will wait and see (not like there are any other options, of course). Seems to me that the Matrix is direly in need of a revamp, and this whole Wireless Matrix thingie might be awesome, or it might be crrrrrap. I don't want to see this game start looking like CyberGeneration, and I've got great hopes for it, but only time will tell.

If the attempt is to dumb down the game, broaden our niche market (and let me go on record as saying I like our niche market), etc etc, then I'm afraid no good will come of this. But if they pull off the nigh-impossible and streamline the system without dumbing-down the system, and keep the game I love intact, well then they can have my $25 gladly.

actually? yes, third edition is broke. the tech rules actively repulse most players and are wholly incompatible, the firearm creation rules are hilarious, the melee rules are inconsistent, the rules for sneaking just plain suck, and even the magic rules require minor tweakage.

I wonder what Roxy is doing now...

Honestly, all you oldsters whining about how SR4 is going to suck are missing an important issue here: there is a gigantic amount of rules-bloat in the current iteration of SR3. Most of you who've been around for five or six years hardly even noticed how much it's creeped up on you, but even when I first started reading the SR books (two weeks before the join date listed to the left, btw) I remember being so completely lost in the flood of rules and supplemental rulebooks that I had no idea where to start assimilating it all. I thank my lucky stars I was born with an unusual ability to assimilate and process data, or it would have taken me far longer than a month to go through just the books I was lent to read through. Some of the rules, like everything to do with riggers and vehicles, I still haven't read, years later, and don't expect to ever read because my brain gags just looking at them.

These days, with the SOTA books, SSG, and all the setting books, not to mention two *more* years of background history, there's such a myriad of rules, scattered across so many books, that it's basically impossible for a new player to get him/herself oriented, let alone familiar, with the rules in a reasonable amount of time. Personally I welcome an edition change precisely because it'll strip away some of the rules and let everyone--veterans and newbies--start over again from the same page.

I've been here and hour and haven't commented yet. I guess it's just sinking in, finally. I stopped by this morning before work and noticed that thread with the SR4 pic in the main area and thought it was a joke. Lo and behold...

Well, I have to agree with Kagetenshi and say I am guardely pessimistic. SR3 has problems, yes. It has a fair amount of them, yes. But will SR 4 not have problems? No. It will have problems. And, while I welcome new, better thought-out rules, I really, really don't want to have to buy all the supplemental books again (speaking as someone who's bought just about all of the supplemental books since SR1...).

OTOH, if I end up starting a new SR game in a few weeks with one experienced and three newbie players, the prospect of having a new, simpler rules system a few months down the road might hearten them. Who knows?

Also, I was pretty pessimistic about SR3 when that came out and I ended up liking that pretty well, so... maybe.

*crossing my fingers and knocking on wood*

There is plenty wrong with the 3:rd edition. I have fought for a decade to understand all the rules and I still have problems getting everything to work properly, from magic to rigging to decking and everything. I love the game. I love the rules of the game, they´re cool. But if I didn´t love it so, I wouldn´t have given it so much damn work just to be able to play it properly. The rules are among the best there is, but only after you know them and they NEED to be simpler to understand. I hope they don´t ruin the things we love about them though.

Furthermore. Shadowrun has a lot of more or less outdated concepts from the eighties that have been hard to shake off. They are going to do that with this new edition. My guess is that they are going to make the new matrix into something similar to the movie. Now, even though you may think that´s a bad idea, who wouldn´t want to see a matrix that we can at least visualize? I can´t make out from the books what it´s supposed to be as it is, but some of the threads on dump shock gave me some ideas. I think it´s good their doing this. Remember that Shadowrun has NEVER before had this big a change. If this is done good, it´s going to be very exciting to say the least.

EB: indeed.

this is definitely a bigger change than previous editions. the tech leap and the timeline advancement alone make it bigger.

you're one of the few, then.

Oh, god damn it.

Hm. Well, I suppose it *is* somewhat appropriate for fans of a roleplaying game set in a corp-ruled dystopian future are a bit wary of a corporation changing their game.

Eldritch: My gaming group is given about 300 $ a year by the government (in Sweden) to buy games. So I gladly give them to the developers of my favorite game. Remember that the game would die if WizKids didn´t produce new books that people want to buy. This will be a major sale. Another rumor that´s been going around is that there will be a Shadowrun game among the release titles for Xbox 2. It´s a rumor I have disregarded, but it has been persistent. Maybe this is a way to prepare for the extra attention from such a release? Vampire got a new computer game about the same time they did their big overhaul.

Prospero: I made the assumption when I read that this was going to be a completely new set of rules, replacing the old ones all together. That has never happened before.

Actually, kudos to FanPro. You realize its been 6 years since SR3 came out? I didn't. Not until I stopped and thought, and went 'good grief I'm getting old'. I'll bitch and moan like the next guy about 3.0 and 3.5, but really, 6 years is a damn good run. And, well, w00t wireless! ...sorry, that's my catchphrase of the moment :7

I´m optimistic. I was sceptical towards 3:rd edition, but it showed me wrong. In my opinion every single thing they´ve done has been an improvement to the previous versions (eccept the artwork, and the critters book).

I'm going to reserve judgrment on 4th edition until I actually see it.

Whether its a good or bad thing for the game is impossible to tell at this point. There is some room for improvement in the game. The technology of the game world was based on an extrapolation of 8o's technology and did not predict well some of the changes that have taken place since then. Breaking everything back down and rebuilding it could be a good thing.

I hope they keep the basic concepts of the game mechanics though. Shadowrun's game mechanics are very well done and help give the game its flavor. The game could use some more consistant rules though. There are so many things that have been added on since the beginning that its difficult sometimes to find some rules.

I was going to come in and argue with Eldritch and co, but mfb and Eyeless have more or less echoed all my major feelingson SR3. There is more wrong than right with the current edition, and far too much rules bloat to wade through and required houserulings just to get the game playably sensible, and that's just where it begins. Hopefully, SR4 will be a gigantic step in the right direction, but details seem very nebulous, at the moment, so all there is is hope.