I like Shadowrun.

Hacker House...

On the other hand, I would have liked a new term for wireless decker riggers before "hackers." But it could be worse.

As a side, the only Shadowrun I don't like is the one that never changes.

But it's still a car. Shadowrun is not a single car, it's a class of vehicle. We've been driving a '89 Honda Civic long enough, even with all the duck tape holding the bumper on. I don't think what's cool about the Shadowrun world will be gone because deckers don't need decks - and I think the proof is in how many games never even use deckers or riggers.

Of course, you're free to think SR is dead, as I've heard you lamenting it before. But I feel the opposite: I think SR is alive, and most of the new books reenforce that opinion in me.

So... you think that Shadowrun is already dead, more or less, correct?

Interesting that you don't see 4th as a way to shrink the metaplot, or is it that you're sure they'll pick the boring ones? As to the themes... well, we never agreed about what those were anyway.

I've heard a few people aching for 80s and cyberpunk, and I doubt both will be gone from the game (maybe diluted, thankfully diluted). Undoubtedly gangs will roam the wild streets at night fight for territory and ninja will strike at the command of their Japanese masters and mohawks never go away. Eco-wars will still go on without the wires. Megacorps will still rule most of the world, nations will still scramble for their crumbs, people will still murder for a pair of shoes as likely as what god the other worships.

What more do you want then? I can't think of a way that SR could please you anymore since you already have everything you want from before? What was the last SR you read? What was the last thing you were excited about?

Can you give an example? Something that exemplifies that cyberpunk feel in the books?

Don't recall saying it wasn't okay; I recall asking why.

And no, it doesn't matter. And no, I'm disinclined to even bother discussing it. It's needless frustration for me. Have a good evening!

Your choice. When I write for SR, your non response will be forgotten.

And you know this...how? There's not enough information out there for you to be making this sort of pronouncement.

What the hell gives you this notion?

I think you're jumping to conclusions based on nothing but a very short press release. I think I'll go out on a limb here, NDA-wise, and tell you that from this playtester's POV so far, it's recognizable.

{snarkiness, not necessarily directed at HMHVV Hunter alone}
If you'd all just sit back, let us work, and quit complaining about something you don't know a damn thing about yet, things would go much smoother and I think we'd be able to help allay the FUD that some people around here are spreading as thickly as they are.
{/snarkiness}

It ain't dead. Quit whining.

actually, he said in an earlier post (sorry...too lazy to find it and quote it directly) that he hasn't played in 2 years...so i believe he is basing his opinion on SR3. he probably also feels that SR4 sounds like it resembles the game he enjoyed (SR2?) even less than SR3 did.

i for one (not choosing sides, just stating my official opinion on this matter) will have to wait until i get my copy of SR4 to decide whether or not i want to switch to it. as it stands right now, i'm worried that they may be tampering with things too much in a attempt to make the game more accessible and marketable - all the while taking the personality and originality out of the game.

i'll still run it at the conventions (i've already signed up to demo it at this year's gen-con indy), but my decision will effect what i play in my home game (when i can get one) - who know's...i may stick with SR3 and never buy another book; or i may LOVE SR4 and buy all the new books.

for now...i too remain skeptical

to go off topic for a quick sec...

i live in englewood, co (a suburb of denver) - if you're looking for a player/GM, please hit up the player/GM registry! i'm desperate to play

Not really, no.

If they're not, then they should be, neh? If not now, then pretty soon.
Unless you want SR to simply fade away into nothing...

Hey hey hey, unless FanPro's statement about it was a complete lie, some of us are arguing about something we know something about (if not very much).

I find the entire line of reasoning absurd. I was born in 1985 but appreciated Star Wars and classic Star Trek, along with many of my contemporaries. Soylent Green and Blade Runner are still popular amongst my age group. Hell, I even know a decent number of Metropolis fans. Can you explain exactly where you get off saying that just because someone didn't live through the conditions that created a game's style, they won't appreciate that style?

~J

Like what? I'm looking at a printout of the announcement from the Shadowrun official website. It is, from my experience looking at the playtest documents, wholly accurate. It also says nothing. It's a press release that says "We're making a new edition and we're changing a lot of things around."

I'm not complaining about you, by the way; you're another one that I find worth reading and discussing things with. But the vast majority of the whinging that's going on here right now is based on the fact that everybody's playing Chicken Little based on this press release and a couple of questions in a very incomplete FAQ. The sky isn't falling, there is no wolf in the fold...they're just bitching for the sake of bitching, and that doesn't accomplish a damned thing.

because things that are old-fashioned are out of style, and very few people enjoy playing non-stylish characters. how many of your characters have mullets? how many of them use "radical" as an exclamation? how many of them fit the Bill and Ted archtype?

people today make fun of the "high technology" of the 80s and 90s--cellphones the size of a car, keyboards that rattle like machineguns when you type on them, DOS prompts. these are not the basis of a game that details any kind of future modern gamers will understand. these are the basis of a game whose stylistic idiosynchracies will only be understood by a limited few, and enjoyed by an even smaller subset.

two decades isn't enough for a retro game--two decades ago isn't "retro", it's "lame" and "out of style". a 50's future game? sure, that'd be cool. (hell, at least then we'd have our goddamn flying cars!) but an 80's future game wouldn't be, because it wouldn't be looking back--it wouldn't have moved forward far enough to have anything to look back to.

Consider that most of my whining has been about the use of the term "hacker" and the apparent continued existence and expansion of the WMI. That and the five-year gap. It's all about picking the visible targets; you can do a lot of whining with very little

~J

I think a lot of the comnplaints come from one place; the Wallet.

I won't speak for the vast majority of gamers out there;

But I believe that the whole concept of re-editioning game systems is just a grab for money. Flat out, bottom line. End of story. This is all about money.
(And I don't expect a response to that last statement - I have always believed that, always will. And I have never seen/heard anything to make me think otherwise)

The words Ludicrous, ridicoulous and Just dumb come to mind. I have been gaming for 25 years, I've seen lots of things come and go. And one thing I am tired of is re-editioning. I don't consider Rifts an 'anomoly' as was mentioned in another thread. They just know how to do things right.


SR isn't broken. Is it perfect? No. Will SR4 be perfect? No.

Is the sky falling?. Yeah, if you don't have the funds to reinvest in the "Next big thing". I don't. Won't. And probably wouldn't if I did. Fasa/Fanpro has enough of my money on rules books. I'd rather see more place/event books.



****
And on the hacker/decker note, I agree; Hacker is old hat and brings to mind little kids goofing off. Not 'professionals' It doen't matter what is true or not' it's the perception ogf the general public.. If they are determined to cut ties with Decker, then Netrunner is the next best thing.

You misunderstand me. I'm twenty. I'm the oldest member of my group. Everyone loves the dark eighties-kitsch feel Shadowrun has/had, although we try to shy away from the anime crap that's slowly creeping in.

The problem is 'have to' vs 'want to'. I didn't have to buy the renraku shutdown book. I didn't - didn't want it in my campaign. I did buy bug city. Wanted it.

New rules are a 'Have to'. If you want to continue with the game, you have to buy the new books.

novels/comics/movies - no I wouldn't pay for a rehash of a book I already own. I own LOTR, I would not by the movie edition of the same novel.

As mentioned, Rifts has survived just as long a SR without a new edition. And they have continued to grrow, expand, and publish new materiel.