Does anyone know if in any of the source material (source books, campaines, novels, etc) that it talks about national military strengths? Like naval sizes (types and #'s of ships), airforce, etc for UCAS, CAS, etc?

Also what would people guess to say about what has happened to international laws such as the Geneva convention? Are they still around and if so, have they been changed or stayed the same? How does it affect goverment/corperate military operations?

I don't have pirates yet (can't find it) but I think a lot of the info I am looking for is in there. I have seen these 2 posts (this thread and this one). They both talk about spec ops and not really number strenghts.

Thanks,
boost

As far as I know the only really hard and fast numbers mentioned in canon, and quoted in one of the threads you posted, was for the CAS - 6 active army divisions, 2 Marine expeditionary forces, 16 air combat squadrons and two 50,000-tons air carriers based in Charleston and Mobil. Everything else is up for debate - and trust me, round here that means it certainly will be. To death.

I always treated the Business Recognition Accords as having liberally appropriated from the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations as well as others (e.g., the Warsaw Convention) to the extent that specifically identified megacorporate diplomatic missions and personnel, including those with reagrds to the Corporate Court receive the same protections afforded under the Vienna Convention (i.e., diplomatic immunity).

As for the Geneva Conventions and Hague Accords, they are still to my knowledge in effect. Not that it actually means anything, but they're still technically around.

Rigger 3 says only the UCAS and Imperial Japan operate large carriers (Nimitz-equivalent). CAS carriers seem to be smaller, likely Charles-de-Gaulle equivalents.

Also, the Germany book lists the Bundeswehr in comparatively great detail, but I won't repeat that here. You all know what I think of that book.

I think NAN has some info on the Native states' military, but dunno about how much in-depth it is.

Finally, I'll check Target:Smuggler Havens later for whether it has anything on the Russian forces.

think there was some stuff in neo anachists guide?

torz

I know that the CAS has the largest standing military in north america (although it is nearly the least technologicaly advanced) and has the majority of the old US "boomer" subs.

Why the @#$%^ anyone would make an aircraft carrier when the whole thing could be taken out by a single thor shot is beyond me. Read House of the Sun (About how Hawai'i separated) if you don't understand my reasoning. Unless you are willing to give every large ship what amounts to an effective anti-ballistic-object weapon system, it's a waste of cash for anything other than show.

The "Crowbars from orbit" are solid objects designed to survive reentry. Can't see lasers heating them enough to matter. Missiles have to deal with bullet-on-bullet; literally, as I can't see an explosive shrapnel cloud doing anything to damage the bar. I don't know enough about particle beams, but don't think it'd do the job.

Seeing the bar would be easy, look for the meteor headed for you. Warning and tracking time would be hard, as the things are stealthed in space, and would probably travel incredibly fast.


End Rant #1 ----------------------

There are a couple ways armies could work in SR, and which one you portray depends on your version of the setting. The UCAS army is the one that can vary the most, as it hasn’t fought a ‘big war’ recently.

One vision is the under-funded army. Corporate enclaves don’t pay taxes, so the revenue of every country is going to take a nosedive, and some items on the budget would have to be slashed. Cranky, older vehicles that eat up huge amount of maintenance money and spend most of their time inoperable, poor training, late paychecks, sundry other problems. They probably do some things pretty well (Snipers and water purification are points for my native Canada), but the grunts suck. There is some cannon about the Chicago containment zone and the R:AS quarantine to suggest that at least some of this is the case for the UCAS.

The other extreme is the well-trained, heavily equipped army. Tanks and APC’s, with a drone rigger in the back of every fourth APC. Troops have smartlinks, low-light and flare-comp, maybe even boosted refs 1. Ares Alpha is being phased in as the standard assault rifle. How big the army is can be debatable, but what they have is a juggernought for its size. How I view the CAS

Finally there is the lightly equipped but elite army, my take on the NAN states. Mostly light infantry, but with an overabundance of the heavy man portables. Tries to keep the troops in training or the field as much as possible. Tries to get shaman in as many units as possible.

Of course, I could be talking out my rear end.


Edit: Sorry, just re-read the subject line. This is supposed to be about treaties and accords, isn't it?

Actually.. if I personally had to come up with an orbital death weapon... I'd be more likely to build an 'Orbital Carpet Bombing System' then an 'Orbital Sniper Rifle'. More expensive to use, but more efficient in terms of 'remove large threats' and harder to counter. I'd have some of the more precise weapons, but in general, I'd rather have the ability to wipe out large areas -- for instance, the entire military division they've just sent out.. or most of the bases.

I don't know about the Corps, but from a military/strategic point of view.. killing one single target, no matter how major a threat it is, is less valuable than wiping out the threat and it's entire support group. Tactically, the single threat is the soundest target.. strategically, the support group is -- drop the group and the threat is weakened considerably, and usually pulls back because conventional weapons can now devastate it.

why you would put everything on one boat... airfields don't move very quick. without a good idea of how this "Thor Shot" would opperate but taking whats been said... a ninitz class nuc carrier is pretty much invulnerable to a hull shot (exept for the stern). and not counting nucs. so this weapon would be really usefull for dammaging topside gear, radars and the like. but if these things are heavy enough to do damage, dense enough to not burn up and not guided they are going to have to be numerous. I can't see anyone putting ten tonnes of one-shot ordinance in space. even at cannon cost for low earth orbit. and for what, a non-nuc strike on a carrier? good one, you wanna kill one there are easier ways. using this system you've killed the carrier and alerted the rest of the force, even if you take awa a task force's ability to project force (assuming you hit all of the carrriers) the leftovers are more than capable of kickin ass. they'll just have to change how they do it.

Any group that has the ability to put a wepon in space has the ability to stage a high speed low level air strike on a single target. without radar and a damaged deck a carrier is out of the battle.

please forgive, as I'm unsure of the mechanics of the thor shot. and I suppose I should have mentioned modern converntional weapons striking the hull of the ship as opposed to the deck or stern areas of the vessel, as that's what I meant

Nuclear weapons have some serious drawbacks to them though -- flattening an area from orbit would be preferable to a nuclear strike, and yes, I'm well aware that forces can be spread out over a very large area. But, when you don't have to worry about fallout and so on, within an hour every major base can be wiped out, along with a large portion of the fleets and so on. Non-nuclear strikes mean you can use the weapon a lot sooner in the conflict -- nuclear weapons are last resorts.

An air strike on a carrier battle group? You can count me out. Might also want to consider reaction times and cost of maintaining ability to commit such a strike within 48 hours anywhere in the world.

[Edit]Air detonation = negligible fallout. Sure the affected area will be a bit hazardous for quite some time -- but then there's not much point in hanging around in a flattened and burnt wasteland anyway. Not that corps have to worry about large-scale military operations in the first place.[/Edit]

Well, there you go.

But even the best aircraft carrier can't conquer a country, so you still need a standing infantry army.

My understanding of thor shot mechanics is that they orbit in space, de orbit under there own power, targeting during early rentery is achieved threw rockets, after that it is purely ballistic (control surfaces that can survive rentery are not feasible on a object designed to preserve maximum kinetic energy). The later part of the flight is unguided but during the beginning of the flight it can select its impact point accurate to a couple of meters

It impacts with the full energy of a bus moving at mach 10+, this should be enough to penetrate the deck, hold and lower hull of any ship capable of staying afloat.

This would allow an aircraft carrier to dodge in the couple of seconds between detection and impact. Hitting a moving target would be easy provided its rate of movement remains constant. Unfortunately the carrier will likely not have enough time to dodge if it wait for confirmation of trajectory.

This will lead to an interesting situation where a fleet of ships about to attack an enemy that “might” have thor shots during a meteor shower and every vessel immediately changes coerce randomly.

Edward

Zig-zagging. Not unheard of in previous wars.