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Penta
Ugh. Sargent and Gascoine...

Try not to remind me. The novels, the London SB...Tir na Nog....

It was insulting to think ithey'd *sell* us such things.
Crimsondude 2.0
You forgot Prime Runners.
Pthgar
Leonardo should be eaten by Deus in System Crash as a footnote in the introduction. Black Madonna was so bad I get angy every time I see it on my bookshelf. Yeah, I still got it. I'm posting on DS aren't I? ohplease.gif
Vuron
Well TBH I have to admit I kinda liked the first Sargent and Gascoigne novel. Sure it wasn't great but it's not that out of place with England as depicted in the second Charette novel.

Overall I would have to admit that a bunch of thier stuff left me kinda flat.

However unless one of these damned necromancy rituals works sometime it seems unlikely that SR4 will benefit from the consensus favorite designer wink.gif
hermit
The first novel, the Jack the ripper one? It's kinda cool actually. Not original or particularily well written, but fun to read. Nosferatu, though ... or Black Madonnna >_<
Wireknight
Oh, with regard to the new rules system and my relative worry, it pretty much follows along these lines:

The new Shadowrun system will be very different from the old one. Since they're building a new system, they have lots of opportunity to correct all the statistical probability problems inherent in the old one. The problem is that, without the years of playtesting and general use that the old system faced to make these problems apparent, it'll be hard for them to find these glitches in the new system until it's in print and causing people to pull their hair out.

Nothing's more annoying than house-ruling a certain mechanic to make it work well, only to find that it works just as badly or worse in the new system, and you're not familiar enough with the system at that point to re-houserule it. That's why I think the pool playtesters should probably number in the low hundreds, with a clear and codeified manner of addressing problems and suggesting fixes, so that it's not just a massive mob screaming for blood and occasional rules change to go with their blood. Many hands make light work.

I'm also worried that, if they have ripped off the nWoD system extensively (I have never played with that system to be certain), White Wolf might just get litigous, which is something WizKids/FanPro does not need (remember, this is the gaming company that has patented, copyrighted, and trademarked vampires, the macabre supernatural, and the term "whiny goth", at least as far as legal filings back when Underworld hit theaters would have you believe). Also, given how relatively cumbersome the nWoD system seems to have proven to friends of mine who do play it regularly, they might have honestly been better off going with some d20 variant, which is at least public domain.
Pthgar
Ugh, I forgot about Nosferatu. At least, I try too.
Pthgar
QUOTE (Wireknight)
...they might have honestly been better off going with some d20 variant, which is at least public domain.

You WANT to give us all cancer, is that it?
Wireknight
Damn, they figured out that my long-winded replies were just a ploy to keep them reading longer and longer from their cancer-distributing PC displays. I'll have to petition FanPro to up the asbestos content in the binding material on SR sourcebooks.
Pthgar
Hey, what's with this topic anyway? I thought optimism wasn't compatable with Dumpshock's OS.
Omega Skip
QUOTE (Wireknight)
That's why I think the pool playtesters should probably number in the low hundreds, with a clear and codeified manner of addressing problems and suggesting fixes, so that it's not just a massive mob screaming for blood and occasional rules change to go with their blood.  Many hands make light work.

So you're, like, suggesting a strict QA process and a statistically representative pool of betatesters? I'd be shocked/speechless if they didn't have that already in place. But even when you have thousands of playtesters, you will never be guaranteed to end up with a game that suits every gamer's taste. But then again, they don't need to satisfy every gamer's taste - just ours. wink.gif
littlesean
At the risk of sounding like a party hack, I venture my honest opinion.

I like all that I have heard about SR4 so far.

I like the Magic rule.
I like the crash-especially as a way to redesign matrix rules.
I like the Edge concept.
I even like the fixed target number rule. And I am primarily a GM so I will have to learn the whole sliding scale of difficulty all over again to such a degree that I can make off the cuff calls that make some sense.
I really like the stat splits.

Now obviously opinions vary on all of these points, and the reasons behind those opinions vary even more. And I respect that. What I don't appreciate is attacking the person instead of the point. These developers work hard and do their best to think outside the box to improve the game. Give them the benefit of the doubt. But please voice your opinions on the mechanics themselves all you want. Not that I could stop you anyway. These are simply suggestions.

Peace/War/Hostile Stalemate (P/W/H)/
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