So, after having read all the threads here, something came to my mind...
Instead of flaming without knowing what will really be in SR4, I think it would be quiet useful to get a demo of SR4... WW did it with VtR and WtF (each time a 5 part demo, with basic rules, and a mini-scenario)... If this could be the case, SR4 would really look like WW (com'on, flame me baby )

By the way, please, great dev team, send us a sign that you haven't forgotten us on this earth, and post the part five of the FAQ, even if to do so, you have to slay a bloody path through these hardcore geeks who are complaining all the time !

So, any comments ?

Well, I don't need all that much cellulose in my diet.....

I am in favor of a demo. Since I won't be attending the big release at the Con I would love to see local commandos or playtesters run a scenario at a store or something.

I have the uneasy feeling that the system won't even be ready for a public demo until sometime in july so I guess I could just wait another month.

I think you are right Solstice, but I was more speaking of the eventuality of a demo rather than a demo right now !
I know than when WW did that, the transition was much easier for the players...

Then again, I'm guessing a good chunk of the system is done already. If perhaps combat, but not matrix is done, we could just see that. I know the devs don't want to show say initiative and say 'this is not in concrete', but with stuff like that, they can stick to the SR3 methods.

I would like to see something like that on the forums, so we can properly tear it to pieces. It could go a long way to settling complaints. But it's not something I demand, and I bow to the devs' judgement if they decide it would not be in our or their best interest.

By the way, I thought that the dev team was realeasing once a week a part of the FAQ about SR4...
Have they forgotten us ?
Pleaseeeeeee, I NEED this part in order to sleep tonight...

A demo would satisfy fans for a couple(?) of months before the game system came out. It'd also take away a designer's time that could be spent working on the game system that will be used for years after release. I'd rather see FanPro folks spend that time tweaking a rule example or catching typos than working on a demo.

I would like to see a demo.

I'm sure they could find a volunteer to do this...

IMO, the main problem is not to find a volunteer, but to have the job done pretty well...
The WW demo was composed of 5 parts (each of them had someting like 20 pages in pdf), a summary of the basic rules, the mood, a few artwork... It's a hard job, which has to be done serioulsy...
But I really would like to see something like that happening with SR4.

A demo would be cool - but risky for them sales wise.

A lot of peeps will buy the book and check it out. If they don't like it, it goes into the pile of other books they didn't like and sits. But it is still a sale.

If the have a demo, then they could judge it before hand, decide they don't like it and not buy it. Where as they would have if they didn't see the demo.

They'd be better off with a couple teaser flyers like they did back for SR1. I still have mine, they were pretty cool.

I was tinking of a live demo at a games store, not a release of rules, etc.

Some playtesters could run through a scenario with explanations of changes and Q&A afterwards. That kind of thing.

Noooooooo... let's sacrifice these blasphemers to the Powers that Be !

I really hope that the dev team won't stop just because of a few rantings... A lot of people don't even want to write in these threads because of the dishonesty of some people (I hope that SR4 will be great, but with what we know, we can't be sure of anything, as not enough has been said about the new system ; maybe it will be great, maybe it will be shitty, but I will wait to see it before judging).

A demo would be a good occasion to disclose a few information about the system... In example, you couldn't say with VtR demo how the rules would be, but you knew that you would have a fix TN, you knew how to use disciplines (with a few examples of them), you knew how to run a combat... And this was great, because even if you knew that it was just an overview of the rules, and that they would be more complex, you could have a grasp on the new system...

That's my point of view...
But remember, I might be wrong (even if I will never admit it )

You're right - we don't know if it'll be good or not.

But they've released enought to make a lot of us nervous....

A demo would aliveate some, and enrage others. It'll just make us more educated on the subject

You're perfectly right... But to some extent, the SR4 core book will also please some (sorry I don't understand "aliveate" as english is not my native language) and enrage others, but it will be...
And I don't think that the fact of having a demo would make the dev team change their plans (the system will be fix TN, no more pools...) but, on some minor points, there might be a few details that they didn't consider and which could need some fixing or at least some explanations... That's why I would like to see a demo...

Or less educated. As they've pointed out before, a lot of stuff is still subject to change. Should we all come away acting like Initiative System A is the one that'll be used, when the book ends up being printed with Initiative System B, well we'll feel rather silly.

As I've said since, well, the first time someone asked: more extensive preview material will be released closer to the book's release date, as is standard in the industry.

Sincerely, i can't believe that so many things can change... We are end of april, the release is in august, which mens that everything will be sent for printing in july... So no more than 3 months left... It's pretty sure that a lot of things have always been decided (and I really do hope so !)...
They advised us about SR4 a few weeks ago, but it's been months they were working on it (please confirm )...
So I am pretty sure that all the "stone" (core might be a better word) of the system is already written... Don't you think ?

you know folks, i've been pretty nasty in what i've said about SR4, personally i dont like the way things are looking from the FAQ and it has me worried, but i will wait, the remarks about it being easier to take the system to LARP is not a jibe against it, its actually a concept i enjoy, i love playing in a mixed VtM/Werewolf/hunter game, i find it fun, especially since i play my Werewolf character like i would a SR character, i think the idea of taking SR to a live action setting would be a great idea, i will wait like i said, cause i hate getting things piece meal

Just a note on the lack of Blog this week...

Rob is, I believe, out of town this week for work stuff. Not 100% sure what or where, but...

Bull

Actually, a demo wouldn't be a bad idea. Fanpro's already got the Commando program, who could be NDA'd and trained up, and sent out to run SR4 demos at various cons. Players could be given a quickstart guide, plus pregenerated characters. (According to what's been posted, the core mechanics only take up 2-3 pages, so a short pamphet isn't out of the question.)

Except by the time they've done that, SR4 will have already been released at GenCon. Also, it'd be useless to train anyone in any sort of rules right now, or in the near future, since it's all in flux still anyway. Anything that they tried to demo would stand a good chance of being changed before release. I also wouldn't trust an expanded pool like that to stick to their NDAs, either.

What about Georgia, any COmmandos there?

The best way to find out if there's a Commando in your area is to go check out the list of venues here. You can then drop the individual commandos an e-mail to check and see if they're doing demos for Shadowrun or Battletech (or both).

If you find one near you, sign up as a player on the Commando website ( Player Registration ) and then select the relevant Commandos as ones you're interested in. Every time they run an event, you'll get an e-mail about it.

Kewl.
No love for marietta, sad.
I like the war room, just too long a drive.

Mayhaps, when my hunter on Garona hits 60 I'll apply for commando status

The price you pay for something has nothing to do with whether you are allowed to copy and distribute it. [Example: the d20 SRD -- WotC still owns the copyright for it, and the ONLY way you're allowed to distibute it is by following the Open Gaming License.]

In the case of old FASA flyers, though, I highly, highly doubt WizKids is going to care about some scans of them floating around.