Not until you convert the entirety of Shadowrun to accomodate the d10. This means a range of natural "normal" Attributes of 1 to 10, prorating racial abilities, changing all weapon damage codes, etc. It's a large job, more power to ya if you do it.

No more so than subtracting 1 from all rule-of-6 rerolls.

~J

What reason would you have for changing all attributes to be 1-10.

Attributes aren't rolled stats in the first place...and you can already have attributes higher than 6.

There is no need or reason to change that that I can think of off the top of my head.

Wha? There's exactly one value below the minimum TN in both cases.

~J

Not if you're making it 0-9, like he made abundantly clear that you would be doing in this system.

Because you've changed the probabilities of the game. Suddenly, a Manabolt against a Willpower of 6 has a greater number of successes. Suddenly, everyone is going to hit all the time with their guns, because a base TN of 4 is remarkably easy to hit. You have to adjust the statistics and numbers of the game if you change what die you are using.

He also made it abundantly clear that the lowest TN would then be 1. The value below 1 on that die would be 0, the value below 2 on a d6 would be 1.

~J

Ok, but what's the point? You can convert it to D100 if you want to, but why bother when the system already works?

to increase the range of target numbers (which allows for a finer selection of TNs for challenges) and to cut back on the frequency of the Rule of 6.

I will admit that some of the run is rerolling a 6 upteen times but...in all seriousness, it should probably not be that easy.

It basically gives you the chance to have more realistic outcomes to your challenges...
A GM can set up something with a somewhat high target number without the chance of the player blowing it away on some obscene roll (my record for a roll is 107, for example).

Sure the chance is still there, but it won't happen nearly as often which makes things much more realistic.

With d6, luck is like a built in 3 point edge that everyone has for free.

Really? It's too easy?

Let's see you pull off the kill shot on a guy running behind partial cover in lowlight. I guarantee he dodges. With all the applicable modifyers, target numbers are right where they should be. If you want to restructure everything to fit D10, that's your house rule. Have fun re-propotioning everything. I just don't see what the point is.

Yeah that's all well and good but it's highly dependant on getting that first roll for the rollover.

And also considering that nothing really ever has a TN that high anyway, it's a nonissue...
The point is to make it less likely for somebody to hit multiple rerolls to beat any challenge.

It's rare when anything has a TN all that high and it's far easier to get that first or even second 1in6 than the 1in10.

actually, with 9 being the reroll and 0 being 0, difficult tapers at ~80%...

But still...

There are two ways to do it IF you want to make the conversion, one way will make it easier (1-10) and the other will make it harder (0-9, which I am advocating, for the simple reason that the game feels too easy sometimes. I have only twice ever gotten roll-screwed in this system)...while you could just increase TNs as a house rule, the reason why it's superior to have a dice-side with a 0 value is that it gives the GM more flexibility in customizing their challenges.

With a 1-6 or even a 1-10 value, you have a gap. in d6, there is no TN6, because noone can ever roll a flat 6. While you can have a TN6, it's pointless and it should either be TN5 or TN7.

When you give a die a 0 side, you CAN roll a flat 5 (on a d6) or flat 9 (on a d10), which allows you a greater range of challenge difficulties. This is something that I consider to be quite significant (either 17 or 20 percent significant, depending on the die)

It gives the GM greater flexibility to choose how difficult the game will be to the players and not have some gap imposed by the poor mathematics of the system.


I would have no problem with d6 if it was on a 0-5 basis. I'm just really advocating the 0 value dice-side.

Umm, no. At a TN 9 (difficulty of 90%), you have exactly a 10% chance of getting a success. At a TN 10 (difficulty of 91%), you have exactly a 9% chance of getting a success. And so on, until you reach a TN of 18 (difficulty of 99%), which has exactly a 1% chance of success, where the second taper point occurs.

I'm sorry, you're completely correct.

It's very sad that I'm so tired as to not be able to wrap my brain around simple math right now.

I'm going to have to kick myself a few times when I get around to getting a good amount of rest.

Although, If I'm reading what yous aid correctly, that supports my statement that there is greater flexibility in choosing a difficulty level with a 0 value side.

I'm not disputing that. It's a long and tired argument, though... the 6-7 plateau has long been a bugbear (and in some cases, a beloved sidekick) of the SR core mechanics.

Again, greater flexibility and better probability curves are great... but you have to retrofit the entirety of the Shadowrun mechanic and statistics to it, and it's not just a simple task of prorating all target numbers or refusing to change the numbers (while changing the mechanic). It's a completely different ball game, there.

well, since it looks like there's going to be a whole new system anyway ;D

why not a 0-5 d6 system while we're going about all these sweeping changes. ;D

A 0-5 d6 system still has the problem that TN modifiers have a huge impact on the difficulty of a task and vary wildly in the amount of difficulty that they add to making a roll depending on the initial target number.
The 0-9 d10 system smooths these out a bit.

I really don't care if you approve of the idea or not - I'm soliciting opinions on what would need to be done to get it to work, not overall approval.
And yes, the objective is to make most rolls easier and involve less die rolling. The d10 idea will do that.

If the chance is equally improved for both the acting and the resisting rolls (since both are now using d10), then we've kept our balance between the two largely intact, haven't we? The difference is that more successes will be rolled, but more successes will be rolled on both sides.

True.

This will have an affect on the number of net successes when the skill or stat difference is large. But this will rarely be an issue.

Also it favours the low stat in such tests because they have a greater improvement in the chance of a successes. I am not saying low stats will win most of the time, just that there is a larger part for luck to play.

Another point is drain. If you don’t modify the drain codes then spell casters will not fear it. 6S drain was a serious thing requiring a probable 36 ice for complete resistance (that is to say accept some drain or use karma). Using your D10-1 system 15 dice will provide probable full resistance.

Edward

I don't buy the "opposed test makes all things better" argument. For one thing, higher TNs on opposed tests make the outcome far more random (due to the high threshold for success). Opposed tests give the distinct advantage to someone who has a 6 or higher on a stat vs. someone who has 5 or lower, and I think this is part of the built-in SR mechanic. This is why the attribute caps and skill caps are 6 for starting characters. Also, opposed tests only cover a limited number of rolls. Suddenly, all weapons have been nerfed by 2 Power or more, for example. Suddenly, decking into a Red host has become significantly easier.

This could be a problem I suppose. Of course, it's a rare PC in the games I've seen that doesn't have at least one attribute above 6 to begin with. I thought that limiting beginning skills to 5 rather than 6 might be a good idea.

Weapons are essentially an opposed test, just with different TNs for each side.
The TN for the dodge test probably would have to go up to 6.
And decking seems to be amazingly difficult under the current system for beginning characters (or maybe my GM just likes throwing us up against systems that are too much for us to handle).

That's assuming you are using the optional "mode" rules, or anything else that boosts detection factor. The problem with using those rules is that it boosts detection factor without a corresponding additional rule for hosts to counteract it somehow. It's one of the main problems of the "everything relies on a System vs. Detection Factor roll" mechanic.