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Kesh
QUOTE (Cray74)
I think you need to read more of MitS. New magical traditions are being developed everyday. SOTA:2063 and SOTA:2064 expand on meta-magic powers, magical traditions, and "physical" adept types.

There are certainly other types of psionics out there just waiting for a GM and player to cook up.

I have read MitS thoroughly. However, that's the only write-up that psionic traditions get in the book. Which means if you want to play a psionic character, you either homebrew it with the GM, or you get stuck with a crippled character.

It doesn't matter that there could be other psionic traditions. We would have been better off it MitS had never even brought up the subject because, now, there's one canon way of running a psychic, and it's horribly broken. dead.gif
Kesh
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
QUOTE (Kesh @ May 11 2005, 01:55 AM)
That's why I think it was asinine of the author to say that psionic characters "don't believe in magic."

Well to be fair it's not the only asinine thing in the book by a long shot. It's gratuitous sentences like that that make me wish I could make the book combust by staring at it hard enough.

... thank you, Crimson. That's the first good laugh I've had all week. biggrin.gif
Kesh
QUOTE (Glyph @ May 11 2005, 06:24 PM)
I agree with what several of the others said - that psionics as presented in MITS is just one approach that you could take to playing a psionic character.  Their version is the broken/out-of-touch version, but you could just as easily play a hermetic or shamanic mage who is "psionic for flavor" - a normal, non-gimped mage who uses psionic terminology and sees his or her powers in psionic terms.

That's kinda how I envision it. Actually, I thought basing psionics partly on the Voodoo system would fit best. Summoning a loa can be seen as a form of classic "spirit channeling" and might fit the psychic theme better.
Crimsondude 2.0
QUOTE (Kesh @ May 12 2005, 12:46 AM)
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ May 11 2005, 08:07 AM)
QUOTE (Kesh @ May 11 2005, 01:55 AM)
That's why I think it was asinine of the author to say that psionic characters "don't believe in magic."

Well to be fair it's not the only asinine thing in the book by a long shot. It's gratuitous sentences like that that make me wish I could make the book combust by staring at it hard enough.

... thank you, Crimson. That's the first good laugh I've had all week. biggrin.gif

Oh, and don't think I haven't tried to do it, either.

It's all fun and games until I Awaken and learn to cast Fireball. Then it's just fun!
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Dawnshadow @ May 9 2005, 12:54 PM)
I don't agree with the physical illusions mostly because I can't see how they make sense psionically. To fool cameras and so on, it has to physically manifest, and psionics is the mind. I just don't see how it could work.

Acid spells are the biggest problem. I'd probably allow a spell that just makes electronics fry, but I doubt I'd allow lightning bolts.

The thing is, everyone's proven that they can come up with an explanation for funky spells as psionics.. but they haven't given nice, plausible ones -- just horribly precise things that have to inspire headaches -- and that most psionics just can't do. They aren't skilled enough, they aren't good enough. Which, to my mind, indicates something like massive dice penalties, or massive target number modifiers. I favour dice penalties -- fits with other totem modifiers. Make them extraordinarily high, and you've got spells that psionics can learn -- with great difficulty, and can cast -- with great difficulty.

Nensha, the ability to imprint an image onto physical media using force of will.

Inducing an image to appear on unexposed film is a quite common test for psychokenetic powers.

A good example of a Psions with this ability would be Sadako from the Ringu trilligy. Incidently, she would also be a good example of a Psycic capible of creating a unique anchoring focus and living at the bottom of a well for decades sustained only by force of will (Fast and Nutrition spells).
audun
QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0)
The Renewed Hermeticism paradigm...

They use parapsychology in their "research."

No, they don't. They fused the post-2011 "parapsychology/psionic" approach and Hermetic theory. Eventually reread the long discussion we had.

back to the topic:
I think everyone agress that Psionic rules are broken in MitS. Actually IMNSHO, the part from p22 to p27 is full of broken and outright stupid stuff. I've considered ripping the whole thing out, the book falls apart anyway.
Though Psionics are gimped for the reasons hahnsoo and I have mentioned which is mostly metagame reasons. They could have done this without the broken rules though. They could have been a special kind of adept, or at least cost less to build.

Another thought:
As proven it is possible to come up with an explanation for nearly any spell as psi effect. But why is that the Psionics are the only ones who need to come up with an explanation for their spells? Everyone should, not only Psionics. For instance: "This Fireball spell is mana transformed into a small fragment of elemental fire. The elemental fire reacts with oxygen when brought into the material plane and by a simple push it hurls forward into the elemental fire is used up." Adds some more fun to playing a magician, and a great roleplaying oppurtunity.
Crimsondude 2.0
But then we wouldn't get the SR developer's value judgment that Psionic, Miracle working, and magic used by insane in SR are teh crazy. I mean, consider what they lumped Psionics with. It's a pretty bold judgment of the values of Psionics, let alone the whole group, to describe them the way they are in MitS. I agree, the whole thing should be excised.
Kesh
Luckily, the new FAQ gives me hope. Now, Street Magic should either include a non-gimped "build" of psychic magic, or just suggest that it could be built and leave it alone. I can't decide which I'd prefer... leaning towards the latter, if the flavor text is going to be anything like the one from MitS. frown.gif
Crimsondude 2.0
If you get to create your own spirits, you probably want the creation guide.

Hell, even if you don't you might want the creation guide instead of the devs injecting their personal biases into your conception of your desired Tradition.
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