Full Version: Taking another look at LoneStar
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) |
| Frosty: They've tried that before. Not only is a T-bird a prime target for AA, in fact THE prime target, but trying to kill a lone sniper with an aircraft is damn-nigh impossible. Close air support is good at sowing destructiong amongst infantry squads and bringing down death onto tanks, but singling out a sniper amidst an urban ruin? Not so easily done. |
If a sniper is in a position to pin down a platoon for days, chances are, it won't take much figuring to determine what that position is.
Include magical support, and an astral mage can go in to double check. Once the location has been identified, a spotter drone can paint the target from very far away (or the T-bird itself), and the bird can fire it's payload from 8 kliks out.
You do realize that good snipers move, yes? Only an idiot stays in one spot.
Then he's not going to be pinning them for days. If the platoon is dead set, they will find him eventually and will end up outmaneuvering him eventually, and I guarantee it wont take days. Depending on range, it could end up being an hour or two, or even a few minutes. There is only so much one man can do against an entire platoon dedicated to their objective. Especially in an urban scenario where cover is likely to be the norm, rather than the exception, and against a platoon that has access to drone surveillance, possibly magical support and air power. I'm sorry, but the lone sniper scenario just doesn't hold up like you want it to.
edit: he only way a sniper is going to pin a platoon for days, is if he has access to a once-in-a-lifetime-beautiful chokepoint. Not only are those pretty rare, but in most cases, against an enemy with training, it will be pretty obvious. Moving may not be an option for the sniper if he wants to maintain his control of the chokepoint.
edit: he only way a sniper is going to pin a platoon for days, is if he has access to a once-in-a-lifetime-beautiful chokepoint. Not only are those pretty rare, but in most cases, against an enemy with training, it will be pretty obvious. Moving may not be an option for the sniper if he wants to maintain his control of the chokepoint.
Snipers also rarely operate alone. One sniper may be something you can take down, through air power, armed combat drones, or simply going Stalingrad on him. But a small team of sniper/spotters, and armed with a variety of interesting antimaterial rifles? That's another keg 'o fish. Support them with mages to take care of your magic problem, and they could hold down a large force for a very long time.
And about the all-powerful rigger, don't get so cocky. If he's got drones in the air, that means he's got some kind of matrix signal going. That means a good Decker/Rigger team, or a very good Decker-Rigger, can hijack his own drones. This is bad if the drone he hijacks is, say, armed with an antipersonelle gun.
It's worse if the drone they hijack is the one painting targets for that inbound airstrike.
And about the all-powerful rigger, don't get so cocky. If he's got drones in the air, that means he's got some kind of matrix signal going. That means a good Decker/Rigger team, or a very good Decker-Rigger, can hijack his own drones. This is bad if the drone he hijacks is, say, armed with an antipersonelle gun.
It's worse if the drone they hijack is the one painting targets for that inbound airstrike.
That's not true. Encryption level 3 makes it moderately unlikely that even a level 10 decryption unit with an expert operator will be able to penetrate the network, and level 5 makes it extremely unlikely.
Also, no Matrix signal involved—Deckers are only useful here as last-ditch backup.
~J
Also, no Matrix signal involved—Deckers are only useful here as last-ditch backup.
~J
Well we could banter back and forth on this subject escalating continuously until it encompasses opposing divisions slugging it out throughout the city and the impact of the sniper corps in that battle, but I thought we were talking about the lone sniper in superlicious' scenario.
Lone snipers can pin down an entire platoon. After all, all he has to do is pop about three heads, then leave.
Are YOU going to be the one to peek his head out and see if he's gone?
Are YOU going to be the one to peek his head out and see if he's gone?
If I'm remotely rigging a drone with five points of vehicle armor and a dodge TN of about 2, sure.
(Contrary to appearances I have not changed sides on this debate. I'm just disagreeing with parts I think are incorrect)
~J
(Contrary to appearances I have not changed sides on this debate. I'm just disagreeing with parts I think are incorrect)
~J
| QUOTE (FrostyNSO) | ||
If a sniper is in a position to pin down a platoon for days, chances are, it won't take much figuring to determine what that position is. Include magical support, and an astral mage can go in to double check. Once the location has been identified, a spotter drone can paint the target from very far away (or the T-bird itself), and the bird can fire it's payload from 8 kliks out. |
case in point...
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) |
| Lone snipers can pin down an entire platoon. After all, all he has to do is pop about three heads, then leave. Are YOU going to be the one to peek his head out and see if he's gone? |
The platoon will have rigger support and they will pop their sensor pods out to take a gander with no threat to metahuman life.
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Jun 25 2005, 11:57 PM) |
| Lone snipers can pin down an entire platoon. After all, all he has to do is pop about three heads, then leave. Are YOU going to be the one to peek his head out and see if he's gone? |
I doubt you have any real world experience with this sort of thing and to me it seems you're going by what you've seen in movies rather than what tends to really happen in these situations.
Granted this is only a game, so I'll roll with it.
A lone sniper can only cover so much ground at one time, and if we go by your shoot then relocate theory (which granted is a good point and one of the most basic and important elements of a firefight), then we have to take into account that he's not the only one doing stuff at the moment. He may be in a situation where he's moving from window to window (relatively fast, but very predictable), or sneaking through rubble on the street (much slower to do and maintain stealth, but possibly much harder to pinpoint where he'll show up next). While he's relocating, you can bet your ass that any platoon worth it's salt is taking measures to get cover, determine where the shot came from, and find ways to circumvent the sniper's "kill zone". Depending on the situation, the platoon may determine the likely source of the shot relatively quickly, and even with a general direction to go by, will begin to utilize cover or concealment that will make the sniper's life much more difficult. Unfortunately, somebody is going to have to be looking for the sniper, but will try to do so from an angle that provides more cover, or that the sniper hopefully just doesn't expect. He probably wont be the only one either, so your sniper better be damn good, especially without a spotter. Give him some cover of darkness and his odds improve considerably. Throw in the advances in technology that lone star is likely to have at it's disposal, and his lifespan gets shorter.
edited to fix this :
| QUOTE |
| so your sniper better be damn good, especially without a squatter |
Barrens snipers are deadly—they have squatter-spotters all over 
~J
~J
You know how it is. You start talking about the barrens and you can't help but think of squatters.
Of course, Lone Star doesn't even have to send in a platoon when they could easily hire some "Irregular assets" to make the raid insted. Certainly, a team of rnners carrying heavy weapons wouldn't attract as much attention as a team of uniformed officers.
For than matter, a team of plain clothes officers would attract less attention, as well.
For than matter, a team of plain clothes officers would attract less attention, as well.
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