Full Version: Character Creation Questions
I used to run a Troll PhysAd in my home game. As he was a ShaoLin monk, nearly all of his abilities were tied into his prayer beads.
| QUOTE (bitrunner) |
| (rant) Also, remember that you, as a player, have a big advantage in that you can specialize and memorize all the little obscure rules that pertain to your character and his/her abilities and toys. The GM may not have this luxury. For instance, I'll be upfront and tell you that I don't waste my brain cells with the Voodoo rules...hate 'em, never liked them (voodoo that is, not the rules)...I have an unusual propensity to 'accidently' kill any characters I come across that are Voodoo worshippers...can't you be happy with the 50 other choices for being a shaman and pull a simple city or nature spirit??  (/rant) |
Im glad other GMs have the same issue. This isn't unique to shadowrun either. I have a simple rule for most of my games. NO BOOKS ON THE TABLE. Cant remember what it does...TOUGH! Now in shadowrun i make one exception the decker. But i allow the deck to have a "local" copy of most of the regional source books and that kind of stuff. This worked out well in the FASA days when they were more presented as Shadowland Documents. PCs need to know what there stuff does. Now i do allow 3*5 cards as someone mentioned, and extended character sheets, but you cant sit around and watch someone flip...flip...flip...
Thanks
That's one possibility. The other possibility is to read the books obsessively until you know just where to look for just about any rule.
~J
~J
My wife surprised the hell out of me by asking if I wanted to go to GenCon the other day (she's got some non-gamer stuff she wants to do in Indy). Which lead me to wondering what I should do... and of course SRM is at the top of the list. I'm going to sit down and create a character in a few days and the thought of using skillwires occured to me.
A lot of this I already know the answers to per the base rules, but I really want explicit confirmation before showing up with a character that's going to get pounded for things I didn't know the campaign was doing. I also have some generic rules questions about cyberware upgrades. Here are some questions I had:
A lot of this I already know the answers to per the base rules, but I really want explicit confirmation before showing up with a character that's going to get pounded for things I didn't know the campaign was doing. I also have some generic rules questions about cyberware upgrades. Here are some questions I had:
- Are any skills not allowed as chipped? (ie, is Negotations chipable)
- Is the CED available (up to rating 3 as per the new errata)?
- Provided it's available, what skills can be used with the task pool? (Social? Technical? Physical?)
- Are skillsoft program options allowed (following normal rules)?
- If I want to upgrade the grade of cyberware, what is the cost? Do I sell the old cyber at 25% and then buy the new cyber outright?
- If I want to upgrade something with ratings, what is the cost? Let's say CyberX with ratings 1-6 costs 1000
per point. I have it rating 4 (4000 ) and want to upgrade to rating 5 (5000 ) is the cost 1000 (the difference in costs) or 4000 (old cyber sold for 1000 new cyber bought for 5000 )?
OK, i probably shouldn't do this because i don't have the books in front of me, but here's my gut reaction and what i recall...
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| Are any skills not allowed as chipped? (ie, is Negotations chipable) |
As far as i can recall, all Active skills can be chipped, including Social skills...i'd need an official book call on this though...personally, i don't like the idea - social skills are kind of a blend between knowledge and action, much like technical skills. sometimes it's more important to know just how FAR to bow, and the meaning of such, than it is to correctly perform the action. Knowing gang colors, a function of Etiquette, has nothing to do with actions. and don't even get me started on the Etiquette skill and its problems!
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| Is the CED available (up to rating 3 as per the new errata)? |
The Chip Expert Driver option is available, provided it fits in the Avail 8/Device 6 rule...
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| Provided it's available, what skills can be used with the task pool? (Social? Technical? Physical?) |
Unless it has changed, i believe the only skills that can access a task pool are Technical, B/R, and Knowledge skills. just remember that the TOTAL pool dice you can use is equal to the skill. So, if you have Computer 6, a Karma Pool of 2, Task Pool of 2, and Hacking Pool of 6, you can use up to 6 dice from those 3 pools...
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| Are skillsoft program options allowed (following normal rules)? |
yes. please remember that you'll need to have the relevant source material with you, as many GMs may not be entirely familiar with every possible option. also remember the Avail 8 / Device 6 rule for starting characters...
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| If I want to upgrade the grade of cyberware, what is the cost? Do I sell the old cyber at 25% and then buy the new cyber outright? |
yes, although i believe the book states 20%...
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| If I want to upgrade something with ratings, what is the cost? Let's say CyberX with ratings 1-6 costs 1000 per point. I have it rating 4 (4000 ) and want to upgrade to rating 5 (5000 ) is the cost 1000 (the difference in costs) or 4000 (old cyber sold for 1000 new cyber bought for 5000 )? |
This kind of depends on the item. some things you have to purchase as new, and therefore have to sell/fence the old item first. for things like electronics, i suppose the case could be made that a radio is still using the same case, etc and just upgrading the chips. ideally, i'd like to think that anything in the same device rating scale (ie ratings 1-3 cost one thing, and 4-6 cost another, etc) could be upgraded for the difference in price, and moving up the chart would require a whole new unit...but that's just my opinion - not canon...so, i guess it comes down to common sense and what you can convince your GM of. if it is below Rating 6, and Avail 8, then you should be able to afford buying a new model, unless it is something illegal like a maglock passkey - this is an example of something i'd make a player buy a new model of, rather than just an upgrade cost...
does that confuse the issue enough?
See you at Gencon!
Okay, that got most of it, except for two followup questions and a comment.
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As far as i can recall, all Active skills can be chipped, including Social skills...i'd need an official book call on this though... |
I agree that it's kind of odd to chip certain skills, however my standards of odd might be different than those of someone else. If we can get an official call on this one, I"d be happy with whatever it is
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Unless it has changed, i believe the only skills that can access a task pool are Technical, B/R, and Knowledge skills. |
[edit2] Okay, turns out I should have done a little more research before asking this question. The CED specificly gives the task pool to any skill chiped into it (M&M p48). The question thus changes to be what proceedure do you follow for using pools outside of combat if you can at all? The rules in SR3 (p43) are pretty explicit about combat being the situation in which other pools are used. [/edit2]
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yes, although i believe the book states 20%... |
If it's 20, you need to update your FAQ at the end of the General Questions thread
On upgrades, I'm specificly interested in upgrading skillwires. It seems to fit your description such that upgrading them would be a simple x + y cost. I think.
i'll research the other stuff...
as for skillwires...no, you have to sell back the original skillwires and buy a whole new set...
as for skillwires...no, you have to sell back the original skillwires and buy a whole new set...
| QUOTE (bitrunner) |
| i'll research the other stuff... as for skillwires...no, you have to sell back the original skillwires and buy a whole new set... |
That's fine for ratings, but what about if you just want to upgrade the MP capacity? Cannon compaion (p 60) says it's just a cost difference. Is this still true or do we lump this in with the rest?
I hate to keep throwing questions your way, and all, but it's vastly better for me to be doing it when you have several months to reply than all at once at the con when you have zero time to think about it
yes, i was talking about the ratings of the skillwires...
as you said (and found the reference in the book!) if you are just doing an MP capacity upgrade, you just pay the difference. this is like adding memory to a computer...
as you said (and found the reference in the book!) if you are just doing an MP capacity upgrade, you just pay the difference. this is like adding memory to a computer...
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[edit2] Okay, turns out I should have done a little more research before asking this question. The CED specificly gives the task pool to any skill chiped into it (M&M p48). The question thus changes to be what proceedure do you follow for using pools outside of combat if you can at all? The rules in SR3 (p43) are pretty explicit about combat being the situation in which other pools are used. [/edit2] |
Rich, you really should take a look at setting up a house rule for the CED, as it's quite possible to set up a character with a rating 6 skillwire system, chipjack with Rating 6 Chipjack Expert Driver, and a few Rating 6 Combat Activesofts with DIMAP and be rolling Skill of 6 + Task Pool of 6 + Combat Pool of 6...
Granted, adepts can do the same thing, so maybe it's not as bad as I think. Hmmm...
-Deacon
CEDs are limited at rating 3 by the new errata so it's not as bad as it used to be.
Tinker is absolutely correct! I cried for joy when i read over the M&M errata a month or so ago when it came out...
always make sure you have the new errata. heck, my core rules was so old (original printing) that i went out and bought a new copy so that i'd have less errata to worry about - the old book was getting kind of worn and beaten anyways...
for M&M, i'd seriously suggest that everyone just go and buy a new one - there were significant changes throughout...
always make sure you have the new errata. heck, my core rules was so old (original printing) that i went out and bought a new copy so that i'd have less errata to worry about - the old book was getting kind of worn and beaten anyways...
for M&M, i'd seriously suggest that everyone just go and buy a new one - there were significant changes throughout...
I'm creating a Melee/Gun Adept for Missions and had some questions.
You said that geas are allowed to reduce power point costs per MitS rules, but stated something like it actually has to be a disadvantage. What about the "fetish" geas (must be in contact with an item that is either a focus or has three distinct qualities)? If so, what constitutes a "quality"? Does "Browning Ultra-Power Pistol" count as one quality or two? IE Pistol that is a Browning Ultra-Power of just all one thing. How specific do I need to be? A (1)silver (2)pendant on a (3)silver chain? Or do I need to be more specific in the specific type?
Also, what about pistol customizations? Not designs, as those would be a cast-iron bitch to regulate, but stuff like etching, customized handles/finishes, etc? (This again falls under the trying to get my specific gun to be my geas).
I swear I'm not being too munchie, half of these I'm mostly curious about. I was planning on going the typical-for-me silver Gothic cross on a silver chain route...
Oh, one thing I've never figured out, can you use the same item for multiple geas, or do they have to be different items? Or do you have to use different geas on different powers? IE Can I use SGCoaSC for Imp. Ref and Imp. Ability: Pistols, or do I need seperate items, or do I need entirely different geas?
The Abstruse One
You said that geas are allowed to reduce power point costs per MitS rules, but stated something like it actually has to be a disadvantage. What about the "fetish" geas (must be in contact with an item that is either a focus or has three distinct qualities)? If so, what constitutes a "quality"? Does "Browning Ultra-Power Pistol" count as one quality or two? IE Pistol that is a Browning Ultra-Power of just all one thing. How specific do I need to be? A (1)silver (2)pendant on a (3)silver chain? Or do I need to be more specific in the specific type?
Also, what about pistol customizations? Not designs, as those would be a cast-iron bitch to regulate, but stuff like etching, customized handles/finishes, etc? (This again falls under the trying to get my specific gun to be my geas).
I swear I'm not being too munchie, half of these I'm mostly curious about. I was planning on going the typical-for-me silver Gothic cross on a silver chain route...
Oh, one thing I've never figured out, can you use the same item for multiple geas, or do they have to be different items? Or do you have to use different geas on different powers? IE Can I use SGCoaSC for Imp. Ref and Imp. Ability: Pistols, or do I need seperate items, or do I need entirely different geas?
The Abstruse One
Well, obviously Im not bitrunner so I cant answer for sure pertaining to SR missions. However, normally the silver pendant on a chain is specific enough, especially if you specify exactly what it is (gothic cross etc). And normally you can tie as many powers as you want to it; its just if you lose it youre out them all then. What you cant do is stack 2 geasea on one power unless its a voluntarily geased power, and you suffer magic loss and have to gease it again. Least thats how I read everything.
Id still like to see a flat yes or no to which categories of skills can be chipped. The rules state "any active skill" if Im not mistaken, but a few threads in the past have brought up some points about that.
Also, Id like to see a clarification on .... *drumroll* ... armor stacking. Some people allow only 2 pieces of worn armor, some allow 2 plus form fitting, and some allow as many as you want (with the whole obviouse thing playing into it). Now I dont expect an answer to what it should be, thats a whole different thing, only to how it will be handled in SR missions. I just dont want to show up under or over dressed.
Id still like to see a flat yes or no to which categories of skills can be chipped. The rules state "any active skill" if Im not mistaken, but a few threads in the past have brought up some points about that.
Also, Id like to see a clarification on .... *drumroll* ... armor stacking. Some people allow only 2 pieces of worn armor, some allow 2 plus form fitting, and some allow as many as you want (with the whole obviouse thing playing into it). Now I dont expect an answer to what it should be, thats a whole different thing, only to how it will be handled in SR missions. I just dont want to show up under or over dressed.
Random other questions:
What, exactly, has to be dwarf/troll modified? Just worn items like armor, clothing and weapons? Obviously vehciles. What about radios? Computers? Lifestyles? Probably need some clarification here to make all the dwarf and troll resource expeditures roughly equal across everyone.
What are the changes to the given figures for ruethenium material needed for dwarfs/trolls? Id imagine its something like x.5 or .75 for dwarf and x2 for troll? The only figures I saw listed were for humans. Also, do orks and elves have different values here?
Is there any method to include the M&M surgical options during char-gen for SR Missions? Normally the GM can opt to include them as edges and flaws, but obviously that wont work here. But it might be something that could have a nuyen value attached to it or something. If not, is there a way to get them later? Note that not all of them pertain to implanted ware, tho most do.
Did anyone bring up gene-tech? As in, can we use it? And will it be full-price only, or will the reduced cost for child alteration or whatever be an option if the background supports it? Also what, if any, stacking issues will be addressed such as calcitonin + bonelacing (sorta seems like it would overlap, but rules say nothing of the sort; across them all just as written or anything different?)?
What, exactly, has to be dwarf/troll modified? Just worn items like armor, clothing and weapons? Obviously vehciles. What about radios? Computers? Lifestyles? Probably need some clarification here to make all the dwarf and troll resource expeditures roughly equal across everyone.
What are the changes to the given figures for ruethenium material needed for dwarfs/trolls? Id imagine its something like x.5 or .75 for dwarf and x2 for troll? The only figures I saw listed were for humans. Also, do orks and elves have different values here?
Is there any method to include the M&M surgical options during char-gen for SR Missions? Normally the GM can opt to include them as edges and flaws, but obviously that wont work here. But it might be something that could have a nuyen value attached to it or something. If not, is there a way to get them later? Note that not all of them pertain to implanted ware, tho most do.
Did anyone bring up gene-tech? As in, can we use it? And will it be full-price only, or will the reduced cost for child alteration or whatever be an option if the background supports it? Also what, if any, stacking issues will be addressed such as calcitonin + bonelacing (sorta seems like it would overlap, but rules say nothing of the sort; across them all just as written or anything different?)?
Genetech = Beta clinic needed = no-no, stated previously I believe.
If we're going straight core rules, anything that needs to be worn or handled by a troll needs to be modified. A troll would have lots of trouble sticking his finger into the trigger guard of a normal Preditor. I may be wrong on this one though...
The Abstruse One
If we're going straight core rules, anything that needs to be worn or handled by a troll needs to be modified. A troll would have lots of trouble sticking his finger into the trigger guard of a normal Preditor. I may be wrong on this one though...
The Abstruse One
The big question, for me at least, is cyberware. Do you have to spend more for a dwarf sized cyberleg? How about a troll sized datajack?
ok, here are a couple of answers...
Armor: You can stack as many layers as you wish....HOWEVER, only the two highest layers count for protection, and ALL layers count towards Quickness reduction, if any...personally, i'd get some magic undies (formfit body armor) and then a suit of secure clothing over the top for day-to-day ops - special ops of course warrant dragging out the armor.
Trolls/Dwarves: if something affects the whole body or specific physical characteristic, then you have to pay the penalty for the modification. This DOES NOT include cyberware or bioware. Other equipment, such as a medkit, may just have bandages with larger tabs for trolls to open easier, etc, while the bandage itself is still the same size. basically, this "size" difference is supposed to be representative of having a handicap. Imagine a dwarf/troll with fingertips that are twice as thick as yours trying to type on a keyboard. Paying the extra for a lifestyle assumes the higher consumption rate of a troll, as well having all the bathroom fixtures have larger handles and better structural support for furniture.
Genetech: Abstruse is correct...genetech requires beta clinic, so no.
Ruthenium Polymer Suits: once you calculate the cost for a normal jacket, use the standard multipliers for dwarf/troll.
Chipped Skills: pg 295 now says "Active Skills such as Combat, Physical, Technical, or Vehicle skills" - therefore it no longer includes Social skills. Keep in mind that you can still get a Knowsoft which may compliment a relevant Social skill, such as Knowledge: Gang Identification or Proper Japanese Tea Ceremony Etiquette.
Talismans and Geasa: White Dwarf already answered correctly as far as stacking, etc...in your pistol example however, i would rate the Browning Ultra Power as the object. if it had inlaid pearl handgrips and a chrome finish with a special inscription or rune on it, those would count as two features, and you would need one more, maybe if it were hand stamped by the gun's designer or something, making it rare or limited edition. In other words, you buy the stock gun, and then modify it with three distinct features to make it unlike any other Browning Ultra Power pistol. note that this does NOT include standard options that you can purchase as well - having a silencer added is not a feature, it's an option. now, if that silencer is somehow different or unique, then yes. basically, you have to pay something 'extra' on top of the stock items.
M&M options: well, don't have my book handy, but off hand i'd say no, especially if it is under the title of OPTIONAL, which we don't use in SRM...i'll have to get back to you on it, but assume no for now to be safe...
Armor: You can stack as many layers as you wish....HOWEVER, only the two highest layers count for protection, and ALL layers count towards Quickness reduction, if any...personally, i'd get some magic undies (formfit body armor) and then a suit of secure clothing over the top for day-to-day ops - special ops of course warrant dragging out the armor.
Trolls/Dwarves: if something affects the whole body or specific physical characteristic, then you have to pay the penalty for the modification. This DOES NOT include cyberware or bioware. Other equipment, such as a medkit, may just have bandages with larger tabs for trolls to open easier, etc, while the bandage itself is still the same size. basically, this "size" difference is supposed to be representative of having a handicap. Imagine a dwarf/troll with fingertips that are twice as thick as yours trying to type on a keyboard. Paying the extra for a lifestyle assumes the higher consumption rate of a troll, as well having all the bathroom fixtures have larger handles and better structural support for furniture.
Genetech: Abstruse is correct...genetech requires beta clinic, so no.
Ruthenium Polymer Suits: once you calculate the cost for a normal jacket, use the standard multipliers for dwarf/troll.
Chipped Skills: pg 295 now says "Active Skills such as Combat, Physical, Technical, or Vehicle skills" - therefore it no longer includes Social skills. Keep in mind that you can still get a Knowsoft which may compliment a relevant Social skill, such as Knowledge: Gang Identification or Proper Japanese Tea Ceremony Etiquette.
Talismans and Geasa: White Dwarf already answered correctly as far as stacking, etc...in your pistol example however, i would rate the Browning Ultra Power as the object. if it had inlaid pearl handgrips and a chrome finish with a special inscription or rune on it, those would count as two features, and you would need one more, maybe if it were hand stamped by the gun's designer or something, making it rare or limited edition. In other words, you buy the stock gun, and then modify it with three distinct features to make it unlike any other Browning Ultra Power pistol. note that this does NOT include standard options that you can purchase as well - having a silencer added is not a feature, it's an option. now, if that silencer is somehow different or unique, then yes. basically, you have to pay something 'extra' on top of the stock items.
M&M options: well, don't have my book handy, but off hand i'd say no, especially if it is under the title of OPTIONAL, which we don't use in SRM...i'll have to get back to you on it, but assume no for now to be safe...
| QUOTE (bitrunner) |
| Chipped Skills: pg 295 now says "Active Skills such as Combat, Physical, Technical, or Vehicle skills" - therefore it no longer includes Social skills. |
Umm... Not that I object to the ruling, but that statement isn't much backup for it ("such as" doesn't imply a definitive list, but rather a list of examples). If you read it that way, it would also be impossible to chip B/R skills.
| QUOTE (TinkerGnome) | ||
Umm... Not that I object to the ruling, but that statement isn't much backup for it ("such as" doesn't imply a definitive list, but rather a list of examples). If you read it that way, it would also be impossible to chip B/R skills. |
Umm.... Not to burst your bubble but...... Build and repair skills are active skills not social and/or knowledge. So you should have no problem chipping b/r skills.
Huh? The classes of Active Skills are (in order of appearance, SR3, p 85-89):
- Breakdown and Repair
- Combat
- Magical
- Physical
- Social
- Technical
- Vehicle
then there you go...as long as you can find supporting evidence in the book, then you can use it... i merely read the one tiny section on Skillsofts in the gear section...
so, yeah, according to pg 85-89, active skills include social, but magic skills are specifically excluded...
so, yeah, according to pg 85-89, active skills include social, but magic skills are specifically excluded...
Well, my argument's intent is more educational than anything else. What the campaign director says is (obviously) law, reguardless of the letter of the rules (sometimes the spirit is so much more important).
well...we try to keep as close to the book as possible...
this Skillsoft argument has been around since 1st Edition. As i've stated, I personally think active skillsofts should only be for combat, physical, and vehicle skills. technical, b/r, and social skills, while listed as active, really require more knowledge than action - if you're diffusing a bomb, it is the knowledge of the bomb and what wire to cut. if you're at a president's ball, you need to know how to dance, sure, but that is a physical skill (dancing) - how you address the son of the baron of monrovia is something based on knowledge.
arguments, i'm sure, could be stated the other way - i'm merely stating mine...
unfortunately, i'm not running a home campaign, and so i have to stick as close to the book as possible, and therefore until an errata or clarification is revealed, social skills may be chipped.
this Skillsoft argument has been around since 1st Edition. As i've stated, I personally think active skillsofts should only be for combat, physical, and vehicle skills. technical, b/r, and social skills, while listed as active, really require more knowledge than action - if you're diffusing a bomb, it is the knowledge of the bomb and what wire to cut. if you're at a president's ball, you need to know how to dance, sure, but that is a physical skill (dancing) - how you address the son of the baron of monrovia is something based on knowledge.
arguments, i'm sure, could be stated the other way - i'm merely stating mine...
unfortunately, i'm not running a home campaign, and so i have to stick as close to the book as possible, and therefore until an errata or clarification is revealed, social skills may be chipped.
From my experience, skillwires require -so much- investment from a beginning character (probably the only time you'll have the cash to afford the 'wires) that fears about people chipping social skills are easily allayed -- only the dedicated Skillwires user is going to be able to exploit this to any extent. And even then, an enterprising GM can dink with him there...
"Oh, your chip's out of date, etiquette and protocol amongst the Yakuza has changed. Time to blow another 10,800 ."
"Oh, your chip's out of date, etiquette and protocol amongst the Yakuza has changed. Time to blow another 10,800
."
Is it possible to take Shadowland as a contact?
Yep. It counts as a Level 2 contact, though I personally ignore that and give it levels. Target: Matrix, IIRC.
~J
~J
Are you allowed to take Dragon for a totem?
| QUOTE (simonw2000) |
| Are you allowed to take Dragon for a totem? |
| QUOTE |
| For the Path of the Shaman, you may play a traditional totem shaman that follows Animal, Nature, Mythic, or Idol totems as outlined on pages 152-162 of MITS or any of the totems in the SR3 core rulebook. You may also choose to be a shaman of Wilderness or Urban paths, as found on pg 16 of MITS. Elemental, Ancestor, and Pantheism shamans are not allowed as player characters. |
Hate to jump in here, but the Dragon totem is in neither MITS or the SR3 core rulebook. Dragon appears in Year of the Comet, a book not on the SRM book list, as far as I know (though it might be).
Wyrm appears in MITS, though, so should be fair game.
Wyrm appears in MITS, though, so should be fair game.
I'll have to double-check YOTC, but there is another part of the FAQ that indirectly answers his question:
| QUOTE |
| Can I play a druid or other magical tradition from Magic in the Shadows, pg 24-26? Yes! You may decide to follow a magical tradition to add further "flavor" to your character (only open to full or aspected magicians, not adepts). There are, however, a few restrictions. You may still follow a tradition which follows one of the proscribed paths above, but you do not gain the ability to access such a path. For example, you may desire to follow Egyptian Magic traditions. This tradition states that magicians are pantheistic shamans, however, Pantheism is not allowed. Therefore, you could follow this tradition and use the suggested Tools and Trappings, but would not receive the benefits normally associated with this tradition. In Hawai'ian Magic, it states that some kahunas have the ability to summon salamanders rather than spirits of man. Since other Paths which normally summon salamanders and similar spirits are not allowed, this aspect of Hawai'ian Magic is also not allowed - the rest of the tradition may be followed normally. |
Since Dragon is a normal totem, with normal benefits, it can be added for "flavor"; after all, you can have a character of a proscribed path, so long as you don't claim a rules benefit from it.
If you want to get technical, you can have "Wyrm" as a totem and call it "Dragon", or you can call your totem Dragon and get the Coyote shaman benefits/restrictions. And you may be able to use the Dragon totem, since it's technically just "flavor" as opposed to a new set of rules (like SURGE).
i probably shouldn't be answering this without consulting the books, namely YOTC, but i'll do so anyways...
the rules were made general to allow for new totems that become developed and appear in new product. Thus, if a new Porpoise totem were developed, you could feel free to play it without worrying.
Dragon, however, is a little different. like i said, i'll have to see YOTC to make the final official ruling. if the totem was something that was constructed special for NPCs in the book, is marked Optional, or has something otherwise "special" about it, then it won't be allowed. If it is basically the same as any other "normal" totem, then there shouldn't be a problem. it certainly isn't going to give you any game benefits like having Lofwyr as a contact or thinking that you're going to get any slack from a dragon during a business dealing...
Cain is correct in the latter part of his posting, about "flavor" - you may certainly follow those ideas...however, don't confuse Magic Tradition with Totem...a Tradition is merely how the Totem is "worshipped"...You could be walking with Whale in a Salish tribe and your trappings and ceremonies would be entirely different from a Kahuna that follows Whale. The totem, Whale, is the same, and both receive the stated benefits for that totem, but each follows a different Tradition, which may affect them differently...the Traditions are mostly to assist in roleplaying the shaman more effectively...
the rules were made general to allow for new totems that become developed and appear in new product. Thus, if a new Porpoise totem were developed, you could feel free to play it without worrying.
Dragon, however, is a little different. like i said, i'll have to see YOTC to make the final official ruling. if the totem was something that was constructed special for NPCs in the book, is marked Optional, or has something otherwise "special" about it, then it won't be allowed. If it is basically the same as any other "normal" totem, then there shouldn't be a problem. it certainly isn't going to give you any game benefits like having Lofwyr as a contact or thinking that you're going to get any slack from a dragon during a business dealing...
Cain is correct in the latter part of his posting, about "flavor" - you may certainly follow those ideas...however, don't confuse Magic Tradition with Totem...a Tradition is merely how the Totem is "worshipped"...You could be walking with Whale in a Salish tribe and your trappings and ceremonies would be entirely different from a Kahuna that follows Whale. The totem, Whale, is the same, and both receive the stated benefits for that totem, but each follows a different Tradition, which may affect them differently...the Traditions are mostly to assist in roleplaying the shaman more effectively...
There is nothing inherently powerful or unbalancing about Dragon as far as I can see. It gives dice 2 dice for two spell categories and mountain spirits and has some stiff disadvantages.
All in all, I really do like the totem, and was just pointing out that the passage quoted didn't specificly provide for the use of books which aren't otherwise used
All in all, I really do like the totem, and was just pointing out that the passage quoted didn't specificly provide for the use of books which aren't otherwise used
Just so you all know...
I found out that I was mistaken on a certain item:
Trolls/Dwarves do NOT pay anything extra for custom sized bio/cyberware.
the relevant posting has been edited/corrected as well...
If you paid extra for cyberware because you are a Troll, you can, of course, take back the difference between the book price and the adjusted price, then divide as normal for starting nuyen...
I found out that I was mistaken on a certain item:
Trolls/Dwarves do NOT pay anything extra for custom sized bio/cyberware.
the relevant posting has been edited/corrected as well...
If you paid extra for cyberware because you are a Troll, you can, of course, take back the difference between the book price and the adjusted price, then divide as normal for starting nuyen...
Are there any rules in SRM forbidding a weapon foci to be purchased as a cyber-spur?
I would ask about dikote but I value my life.
-karma
I would ask about dikote but I value my life.
-karma
no rules against that...
...and thank you for not bringing up dikoting a weapon focus...
so yes, you can have a cyberspur as a weapon focus - it is considered to be "deactivated" when sheathed...and you have to have the karma to bind it, of course...
...and thank you for not bringing up dikoting a weapon focus...
so yes, you can have a cyberspur as a weapon focus - it is considered to be "deactivated" when sheathed...and you have to have the karma to bind it, of course...
Well I have character creation for a team of runner that are starting the SRM on saturday, is there any advise that anyone can give.?
My suggestion would be to make a balanced team. To experiment SRM at it's best, a decker and a mage/shaman would be good. For the other players, I would suggest them to pick a gunner/street sam or a face.
Well the ideas I have from the runners are as follows.
Ork Samurai - Specilization close quarter combat.
Human Street Mage - Aspected to Minipulation.
Troll Merc - Rebel without a clue. Mr Disorientated.
Female Elf Face - Specialization in jgetting her way no matter what.
There are others but this is what is being put forward to me.
Decker and Riggers are to complex for the new group of players. they ar really green
Ork Samurai - Specilization close quarter combat.
Human Street Mage - Aspected to Minipulation.
Troll Merc - Rebel without a clue. Mr Disorientated.
Female Elf Face - Specialization in jgetting her way no matter what.
There are others but this is what is being put forward to me.
Decker and Riggers are to complex for the new group of players. they ar really green
my concern is that you don't seem to have any technical support in that team....
if you can get someone to play a dwarf technician, he can branch out into either decking or rigging (or both!) later on - that way you have someone that can handle maglocks, sensors, cameras, etc...even if they just have a basic computer skill, they will be able to "turtle" a system to get files if you need them, etc...
also, don't fall into that trap of a Troll being stupid...he may have a low Intelligence - that just means that he doesn't notice things happening around him as much...i'm concerned that your group is very combat heavy. also, if anyone is going to be close combat, i'd go with the Troll. but, if there is one thing i've learned : "if you're in melee combat, you've already done something wrong"...
if you get into a fight, 4 times out of 5, you brought a knife to a gunfight, and we all know what that makes you...that's right, a corpse full of buckshot lying outside of sean connery's chicago apartment (from the Untouchables, for those that miss the reference)
if you can get someone to play a dwarf technician, he can branch out into either decking or rigging (or both!) later on - that way you have someone that can handle maglocks, sensors, cameras, etc...even if they just have a basic computer skill, they will be able to "turtle" a system to get files if you need them, etc...
also, don't fall into that trap of a Troll being stupid...he may have a low Intelligence - that just means that he doesn't notice things happening around him as much...i'm concerned that your group is very combat heavy. also, if anyone is going to be close combat, i'd go with the Troll. but, if there is one thing i've learned : "if you're in melee combat, you've already done something wrong"...
if you get into a fight, 4 times out of 5, you brought a knife to a gunfight, and we all know what that makes you...that's right, a corpse full of buckshot lying outside of sean connery's chicago apartment (from the Untouchables, for those that miss the reference)
No doubt I will convince some to take the Role of the Technician. I have on player who has played before but he tends to Comabt Junkies. I will coax him in to playing a Technical Minded person.
The Troll is not dumb. Just his Merc priorities have been messed with, as he has been in prison under mind minipulation for a crime that he was accused for. Hence the Rebel without a clue.
The disoreinted part is the correctional affect that has been done through the minipulation and as so to say fights the Deamon within, what he can or can't do.
The team look quit handy with thier equipment. But I feel with the discussions I have had with the and thier character concepts. They rather shoot thier way out.
This posses a problem with the SRM 1.
I know the Face will coupe but, I have a concern with the Troll Merc and the Street Sam.
I may have to play down some of the encounters though.
The Troll is not dumb. Just his Merc priorities have been messed with, as he has been in prison under mind minipulation for a crime that he was accused for. Hence the Rebel without a clue.
The disoreinted part is the correctional affect that has been done through the minipulation and as so to say fights the Deamon within, what he can or can't do.
The team look quit handy with thier equipment. But I feel with the discussions I have had with the and thier character concepts. They rather shoot thier way out.
This posses a problem with the SRM 1.
I know the Face will coupe but, I have a concern with the Troll Merc and the Street Sam.
I may have to play down some of the encounters though.
| QUOTE (bitrunner) |
| no rules against that... ...and thank you for not bringing up dikoting a weapon focus... so yes, you can have a cyberspur as a weapon focus - it is considered to be "deactivated" when sheathed...and you have to have the karma to bind it, of course... |
Thank You!
I am pondering some sort of cyber-adept and this makes my choices easier.
And as for the dikote, I'm too afraid some folks here will want their ally spirit to have sex with the focus if I dikote it. Or something.
-karma
Ok I have a question. Yes it has been answered once I guess I am looking for a clearer answer.
The question: Can one make a starting character that is of a magical nature and have said character already been through 1 or more levels of initiation?
The answer: No.
Next question: Why not? (please keep reading before anyone decides to go off on a rant or what ever.)
I have looked and while I personally have yet to find in any rule book where it says you can't I would be open to someone giveing me the books name and the page number I need to look up. Now in my own games I know it is a matter of my choice to allow it or not but in SRM's it is by the book rules so this is why I am wanting a book and page number. No offence Bitrunner and company but if it is not cannon then why can't it be done in SRM's?
Ok now why do I want this to be allowed simple I like the concept of a conjurer but to just waste 35 spell points that act as karma sucks. Although 4 level 4 spirit focuses (one per element) would be ok as well I guess.
The way I see it is this you take your priority for attributes and assign your points nothing over a 6. Then you choose to have your character's attributes affected when you choose to go with one of the metahuman races. This is more or less a side effect you have a 6 body which is max then you goblinize to troll and get +5 body +1 dermal body is now 11 (12) wow way over 6 but legal. So instead you have your magicaly active character go through initiation and as a side effect his magic attribute goes up 1 or more points.
Both initiation and Gobliniazition seem to me to be things your character can go through and as a side effect they effect your attributes. Yet only one is legal at character creation why?
Anyway just a thought I had which is all pointless if there is a book and specific cannon that says no you can't. If not then why the more or less house rule for SRM's? Is it not true that SRM's are supposed to be games that use cannon rules only?
Sorry if I misspelled anything see ya.
The question: Can one make a starting character that is of a magical nature and have said character already been through 1 or more levels of initiation?
The answer: No.
Next question: Why not? (please keep reading before anyone decides to go off on a rant or what ever.)
I have looked and while I personally have yet to find in any rule book where it says you can't I would be open to someone giveing me the books name and the page number I need to look up. Now in my own games I know it is a matter of my choice to allow it or not but in SRM's it is by the book rules so this is why I am wanting a book and page number. No offence Bitrunner and company but if it is not cannon then why can't it be done in SRM's?
Ok now why do I want this to be allowed simple I like the concept of a conjurer but to just waste 35 spell points that act as karma sucks. Although 4 level 4 spirit focuses (one per element) would be ok as well I guess.
The way I see it is this you take your priority for attributes and assign your points nothing over a 6. Then you choose to have your character's attributes affected when you choose to go with one of the metahuman races. This is more or less a side effect you have a 6 body which is max then you goblinize to troll and get +5 body +1 dermal body is now 11 (12) wow way over 6 but legal. So instead you have your magicaly active character go through initiation and as a side effect his magic attribute goes up 1 or more points.
Both initiation and Gobliniazition seem to me to be things your character can go through and as a side effect they effect your attributes. Yet only one is legal at character creation why?
Anyway just a thought I had which is all pointless if there is a book and specific cannon that says no you can't. If not then why the more or less house rule for SRM's? Is it not true that SRM's are supposed to be games that use cannon rules only?
Sorry if I misspelled anything see ya.
Spell points are not karma. The ability to use them as karma for binding/initiation is an optional rule, and as such is not used in Missions.
~J
~J
yeah, what he said...
and yes, it is canon...
from MITS, pg 58
"The gamemaster has the final say in determining when characters can initiate, but a certain amount of time should elapse between the character acquiring the required Karma and initiating another grade."
as a beginning character, you have
a) earned no Karma
b) have no Karma
c) don't have enough Karma
d) have to interact with a GM at some point for the Avatar. Since this takes up a little bit of time, it will normally only be done outside of a normal gaming session. We will be having opportunities at various conventions/locations for players that wish to self-initiate to undergo the process. if you wish to initiate with a group, the campaign will be sponsoring a few magical groups, each with their own goals and benefits/detriments. if you still feel you want to initiate with a group made of your own rules/strictures, you must have a Commando act as your "patron Avatar". (note that those that play at home and are not participating in the Missions program, per se, can obviously do as their GM allows).
besides, if i allowed mages to initiate as a beginning character, then i'd have:
a) 80% mage player characters
b) the other 20% bitching until their street samurai can have access to a delta clinic and a billion nuyen
c) some smart-ass with an ally spirit that wants to marry it, settle down, and have vampiric shapeshifter babies that have purple fur and will someday live on Mars...
and yes, it is canon...
from MITS, pg 58
"The gamemaster has the final say in determining when characters can initiate, but a certain amount of time should elapse between the character acquiring the required Karma and initiating another grade."
as a beginning character, you have
a) earned no Karma
b) have no Karma
c) don't have enough Karma
d) have to interact with a GM at some point for the Avatar. Since this takes up a little bit of time, it will normally only be done outside of a normal gaming session. We will be having opportunities at various conventions/locations for players that wish to self-initiate to undergo the process. if you wish to initiate with a group, the campaign will be sponsoring a few magical groups, each with their own goals and benefits/detriments. if you still feel you want to initiate with a group made of your own rules/strictures, you must have a Commando act as your "patron Avatar". (note that those that play at home and are not participating in the Missions program, per se, can obviously do as their GM allows).
besides, if i allowed mages to initiate as a beginning character, then i'd have:
a) 80% mage player characters
b) the other 20% bitching until their street samurai can have access to a delta clinic and a billion nuyen
c) some smart-ass with an ally spirit that wants to marry it, settle down, and have vampiric shapeshifter babies that have purple fur and will someday live on Mars...
Ok so I guess it is cannon now I know but hey it was worth a shot oh well guess if I make a conjurer I'll give him a million and buy those spirit focuses. Purple fur and live on mars you say well if a smart-ass does this I'll be sure to show up to see him/her off one less weirdo on the planet. LOL
| QUOTE (bitrunner) |
| if you can get someone to play a dwarf technician, he can branch out into either decking or rigging (or both!) later on - that way you have someone that can handle maglocks, sensors, cameras, etc...even if they just have a basic computer skill, they will be able to "turtle" a system to get files if you need them, etc... |
Okay, I got a character creation question - in terms of detecting and overcoming security, how effective will a runner be with Electronics 4, Security Systems & Devices 6, but no decking or rigging equipment? I'm trying to design a security expert with minimal amount of metal in his body and I'm wondering if it's feasible at all.
| QUOTE (bitrunner) |
also, don't fall into that trap of a Troll being stupid...he may have a low Intelligence - that just means that he doesn't notice things happening around him as much...i'm concerned that your group is very combat heavy. also, if anyone is going to be close combat, i'd go with the Troll. but, if there is one thing i've learned : "if you're in melee combat, you've already done something wrong"... if you get into a fight, 4 times out of 5, you brought a knife to a gunfight, and we all know what that makes you...that's right, a corpse full of buckshot lying outside of sean connery's chicago apartment (from the Untouchables, for those that miss the reference) |
My security expert is a pistoleer (Pistol 6) and I can only afford one other combat skill at 6... I plan to use Assault Rifles & Whips as my secondary weapons but I don't know which one to spend skill points on. Either I take Assault Rifle 6 and default Whip to Quickness (12 dice with +4 TN) or take Whip 6 and default Assault Rifle to Pistol (7 dice with +2 TN)... suggestions?
BTW, Rich, can you contact me offlist? I tried to reach you regarding the character design contest back in the days but haven't heard from you yet. Thanks
It's possible for a security expert to not be rigged or datajacked. Most systems can be bypassed with a regular electronics roll. But some systems use remote control elements that won't be possible to tamper manually. However for SRM I think it will be possible for you to do most things. Just hope that you'll play with a decker that will be able to do control slave operations when technical operations won't be possible.
For your skills, I would recommend you too to take some electronics B/R. This is an important skill where you want to play inside the electronics components. I would also put some more points in electronics. For your Security systems & devices knowledge skills, if your game master allows it you might be able to use it as a complementary skill for your electronics rolls. And finally for the combat skill, I would recommend taking assault rifle. You'll need your skill points for your technical skills, so I think taking 3 combat skills might be too much. I would then take pistols and assault rifles.
For your skills, I would recommend you too to take some electronics B/R. This is an important skill where you want to play inside the electronics components. I would also put some more points in electronics. For your Security systems & devices knowledge skills, if your game master allows it you might be able to use it as a complementary skill for your electronics rolls. And finally for the combat skill, I would recommend taking assault rifle. You'll need your skill points for your technical skills, so I think taking 3 combat skills might be too much. I would then take pistols and assault rifles.
Thanks. After reading over the section on Peception and Security Measures in SR3, I'm abandoning Assault Rifle & Whips altogether and using those 6 points to bump Electronics to 6 and Electronics B/R to 2 (bumping Biotech/First Aid to 2/4)
Remember to at least have some combat skill even if it is smg or pistols
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