Thistlewaite
Aug 25 2005, 12:05 AM
The line "Non-living material - including clothing, gear, and cyberware - is not affected" really bothers me. This would imply that if you turned someone with cyberware to goo that all their cyberware would be laying on the ground to be taken and that when the mage stopped sustaining the spell the victim would return to normal sans cyberware.
Is that a correct literal interpretation?
Spell text:
Turn to Goo transforms living tissue into a sticky, glue-like substance. The caster must win an Opposed Test pitting her Magic + Spellcasting against the target's Body ( + Counterspelling ). Additionally, the spell's force must equal or exceed the target's Body. Non-living material - including clothing, gear, and cyberware - is not affected. The target is not conscious while under the effects of this spell, and any damage suffered by the gooey form affects the target normally. The goo has a barrier Armor rating equal to Body + net hits ( see Barriers, p. 157 ).
hahnsoo
Aug 25 2005, 12:09 AM
Yup. It's a nasty, nasty spell. Although, I imagine it doesn't turn you into a small puddle, but rather a gelatinous blob approximately the size and mass of the previous form. If you wanted to get to the Cyberware, you'd have to "penetrate" the blob, which would involve doing damage to the Barrier/Structure Rating.
tisoz
Aug 25 2005, 12:10 AM
Stealing the cyberware was the big use for the spell. Now you at least need to overcome the barrier rating to get it loose.
Crusher Bob
Aug 25 2005, 04:21 AM
Is the spell sustained? Does the effect start instantly? Does the effect end instantly once the sustaining is over?
Do you only need one net success to turn someone into goo?
tisoz
Aug 25 2005, 04:30 AM
QUOTE (Crusher Bob) |
Is the spell sustained? Does the effect start instantly? Does the effect end instantly once the sustaining is over?
Do you only need one net success to turn someone into goo? |
Yes. I suppose so. I suppose so.
Force of spell not less than Body. Threshold is 1 net success on opposed roll.
Crusher Bob
Aug 25 2005, 04:34 AM
Sigh, this is sounding bad, you don't even need to drop that wandering guard with a stun bolt anymore, just cast a force 4ish turn to goo, then stab him a few times with a knife. As the spell requires a relatively low force and only 1 net success to produce instant incapacitation (compared to the force 7+ stun bolt you'd need to throw instead)
The requirement for instant incapacitation is usually linked to not being able to get the alarm out and not being able to retaliate, trun to goo covers both of these.
Nerbert
Aug 25 2005, 04:41 AM
QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 24 2005, 11:30 PM) |
QUOTE (Crusher Bob @ Aug 24 2005, 10:21 PM) | Is the spell sustained? Does the effect start instantly? Does the effect end instantly once the sustaining is over?
Do you only need one net success to turn someone into goo? |
Yes. I suppose so. I suppose so.
Force of spell not less than Body. Threshold is 1 net success on opposed roll.
|
Oh, an opposed roll. That makes a big difference. You might average 4 successes and they might average only 2, but there's still no way to predict.
Kagetenshi
Aug 25 2005, 04:50 AM
Congratulations, you just predicted.
(Well, strictly speaking you didn't, but you've got all the information you need to do so. For example, with your six-die caster versus a three-die resister, one in ten times you can expect more successes than they can get resisting. The rest is a bit more than I want to do right now (very tired), but simple and reliable)
~J
maeel
Aug 25 2005, 08:34 AM
I actually have to admit that i still prefer petrify..
it is almost the same, only that you add body to spellforce for barrier rating.
however, instead of cutting yourself through jelly to get the precious cyberware, you simply cast create water right above your victims head. Collect the stuff rinse it in a shower, drop the spell and you got extremly clean, almost ready to implant used cyberware.....
SirBedevere
Aug 25 2005, 10:05 AM
maeel, you are a sick, twisted, warped individual. Why didn't
I think of that?
Jrayjoker
Aug 25 2005, 01:11 PM
So petrify turns you inot Lot's Wife? That would be a better name for the spell. Pillar of Salt.
blakkie
Aug 25 2005, 01:21 PM
Is someone that is turned to Goo still concious? Could they still cast spells or use headware such as to make a call on a headphone?
Or better yet, could a transhuman with a full skull/torso/4-limb conversion just ignore the spell and beat you to a bloody smear?
hobgoblin
Aug 25 2005, 01:28 PM
QUOTE (blakkie) |
Or better yet, could a transhuman with a full skull/torso/4-limb conversion just ignore the spell and beat you to a bloody smear? |
hmm, canned goo

or maybe walking spam?
hahnsoo
Aug 25 2005, 01:32 PM
QUOTE (maeel) |
however, instead of cutting yourself through jelly to get the precious cyberware, you simply cast create water right above your victims head. Collect the stuff rinse it in a shower, drop the spell and you got extremly clean, almost ready to implant used cyberware..... |
Erm, how does water dissolve the Petrify? I don't see anywhere in the spell description that states that it is no less than a solid material.
maeel
Aug 25 2005, 02:02 PM
the desrciption in SR3 states that the target is turned into calcium carbonate, which is water soluble, sure not very well, but good enough that your body washes away like chalk from the board.
ok, ok, not that good, but it works, if the GM is willing.
once the spell design rules are out, i am gonna create my own spell...
Liquify......
maeel
Aug 25 2005, 02:03 PM
not to mention the area spell..... messify
hahnsoo
Aug 25 2005, 02:11 PM
QUOTE (maeel) |
the desrciption in SR3 states that the target is turned into calcium carbonate, which is water soluble, sure not very well, but good enough that your body washes away like chalk from the board.
ok, ok, not that good, but it works, if the GM is willing. |
This GM isn't. Calcium carbonate comes in many forms, and from the description of the spell (given that the target gets a Barrier/Armor rating), I'd say that it's too tough for normal water to dissolve. If you get a high-powered sanding jetstream of water, then maybe.
Dashifen
Aug 25 2005, 02:16 PM
Concentrated Acid on the other hand .... I had a team with a mage/shaman combo that would petrify followed by a toxic wave. Couldn't really stop them much with that one. Luckily the drain for toxic wave usually kicked in eventually and put the shaman out of comission for a little while.
maeel
Aug 25 2005, 02:53 PM
actually one could create a sustained acidstream.... the drain would be + 1 power stronger than the original, and at damage level L....
how is petrify described in SR4 btw?
hobgoblin
Aug 25 2005, 03:03 PM
QUOTE (maeel) |
actually one could create a sustained acidstream.... the drain would be + 1 power stronger than the original, and at damage level L.... |
acid rain?
maeel
Aug 25 2005, 03:05 PM
does that spell already exist in SR3? i've never seen it.....
hobgoblin
Aug 25 2005, 03:08 PM
nah, and for good reason. i dont think you can make a damagedealing spell sustainable...
it was just my idea of a name for that kind of spell
Nikoli
Aug 25 2005, 03:12 PM
Calcium Carbonate, you need vinegar to be rid of it fast, or CLR.
Darkness
Aug 25 2005, 03:14 PM
QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
nah, and for good reason. i dont think you can make a damagedealing spell sustainable... |
I found no rule in SR3 that forbids it though.

QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
acid rain? |
Nah. Just let him stand in the open. In Seattles athmospheric conditions, he will melt.
maeel
Aug 25 2005, 03:18 PM
well in sr3 combat spell couldn' have the sustain option, but manipulation spells could.
Anyway the only difference i see so far between petrify and TtG is the barrier rating.
Liquify and messify.....
and the more enemies come, the richer you get .....
tisoz
Aug 25 2005, 03:18 PM
QUOTE (blakkie @ Aug 25 2005, 07:21 AM) |
Is someone that is turned to Goo still concious? Could they still cast spells or use headware such as to make a call on a headphone?
Or better yet, could a transhuman with a full skull/torso/4-limb conversion just ignore the spell and beat you to a bloody smear? |
The target is not conscious while under the effect.
QUOTE (maeel) |
Anyway the only difference i see so far between petrify and TtG is the barrier rating. |
There is no difference, they are described identically as Body + net hits.
hahnsoo
Aug 25 2005, 03:22 PM
In SR4, most damage dealing spells are now Combat Spells (the old "Elemental Manipulation" category is now under Combat Spells). Fling, Levitate (which can work like Fling for the purposes of combat), Ignite and Poltergeist are still under Manipulation, but Clout is a Combat Spell now. A sustainable version of Toxic Wave or Acid is not possible, but then again, there are no spell design rules right now.
maeel
Aug 25 2005, 03:30 PM
QUOTE |
QUOTE (maeel) Anyway the only difference i see so far between petrify and TtG is the barrier rating.
There is no difference, they are described identically as Body + net hits.
|
so, whats the advantage of turn-to-goo?
Woobie
Aug 25 2005, 03:33 PM
would goo take damage from electric attacks or what about even more damage?
hahnsoo
Aug 25 2005, 03:36 PM
QUOTE (maeel) |
so, whats the advantage of turn-to-goo? |
RP reasons?
Goo does not take more damage from Electrical attacks. You might even take less, since you gain Armor equal to your Body + net hits.
tisoz
Aug 25 2005, 03:43 PM
QUOTE (maeel @ Aug 25 2005, 09:30 AM) |
QUOTE | QUOTE (maeel) Anyway the only difference i see so far between petrify and TtG is the barrier rating.
There is no difference, they are described identically as Body + net hits.
|
so, whats the advantage of turn-to-goo? |
Your knife doesn't get as dull cutting out the cyber? Goo rinses away easier? Goo burns but calcium carbonate doesn't? Goo moves so it is easier to take the target's armor and clothing than trying to remove it from a statue?
maeel
Aug 25 2005, 03:45 PM
i get your point....
hobgoblin
Aug 25 2005, 07:09 PM
QUOTE (Darkness @ Aug 25 2005, 05:14 PM) |
QUOTE (hobgoblin) | nah, and for good reason. i dont think you can make a damagedealing spell sustainable... |
I found no rule in SR3 that forbids it though. |
check again, there is no listing for sustained under combat spells in mits's design chapter...
and as elemental manipulations are basicly a variation on combat spells it would be logical to extend that to those to.
but as allways, your gm have the final say...
im glad that in SR4 elemental spells are back under combat as that makes the logic more smooth
Darkness
Aug 25 2005, 07:33 PM
QUOTE (hobgoblin) |
check again, there is no listing for sustained under combat spells in mits's design chapter... |
We weren't talking about Combat Spells were we? We talked about Toxic Wave and the Idea of Acid Rain, which would have been Elemental Manipulation Spells in SR3. Hence i did not mention Combat Spells. Maybe i should have been more specific.

Then again, we did design a spell we called Electric Cube. Which had an edge length of Magic Attribute and inflicted normal Lightning Elemental Damage each turn to each target within its area of effect.
QUOTE (hobgoblin") |
im glad that in SR4 elemental spells are back under combat as that makes the logic more smooth |
Yepp. I agree.
Adarael
Aug 25 2005, 09:23 PM
Unless you extend the Combat Spell design rules (under SR3) to Elemental Manips, it's totally possible to make an Area of Effect, sustained-damage manipulation.
Now, see, the DRAIN for such spells is retardedly nasty, and a good deterrent to ever casting the spell at all.
wagnern
Aug 25 2005, 09:37 PM
Turn to Goo and a few ranks in Art/sculpting and whala!
Adarael
Aug 25 2005, 09:43 PM
"Hello, I am Dr. Ignatius Konstantinopolous, PhD. What am I a PhD in, you ask? Why, metahuman jello sculpture, naturally!"
tisoz
Aug 26 2005, 02:36 AM
QUOTE (maeel) |
i get your point.... |
Maybe I don't get your point.
Petrify would allow the target to be picked up and moved easier than a puddle of goo, it would be easier to duct tape a petrified target than a goo'd target.
The spells look the same except for the effect.
It is like asking what is the benefit of Toxic Wave over Fireball over Ball Lightning. They work similarly and have the same drain codes, but the effects differ from spell to spell. One may be advantageous to use in a given situation.
Nikoli
Aug 26 2005, 03:47 AM
Turn to goo: Return target to family through mail-slot
Calcify: You'll need a hammer and chisel, and a drek load of aspirin for the mage.
hobgoblin
Aug 26 2005, 10:12 AM
QUOTE (Adarael) |
Unless you extend the Combat Spell design rules (under SR3) to Elemental Manips, it's totally possible to make an Area of Effect, sustained-damage manipulation.
Now, see, the DRAIN for such spells is retardedly nasty, and a good deterrent to ever casting the spell at all. |
thats realy the problem. by all logic a elemental manipulation should not be sustainable as its a elemental combat spell with a diffrent name. trouble is that the SR3 design rules do not make this seperation and therefor you can claim that you could make a sustainable spell.
but how would you apply the damage part? ones per initiative pass? ones pr combat turn? there are to many open questions when it comes to sustainable spells that do damage to a target or targets that designing one is asking for the gm to hit you with something fast and heavy out of the blue

but like i said, if you want to do it in your own game, be my guest. but my interpetation of the SR3 rules is that the idea dont fly. and i expect any SR4 rules to back this up now that elemental manipulations are back under combat spells where they belong...
Darkness
Aug 26 2005, 10:19 AM
The damage hit on the beginning of each turn. It struck us as the best balanced option.
But you are right, it depends on the "style-of-play" of the individual group. And i'm as glad as you are, that everything, that deals damage (well that is supposed to deal damage in the first place, as there is always the falling damage that could be achieved through levitiation), is back in the Combat Spell Section.
JongWK
Aug 26 2005, 02:49 PM
Me, I'd house rule that cyber also turns to goo (bioware does, anyway). The victim paid for it with its Essence, same like why a mage can see with optical cybereyes.
It also prevents cyberware-hunting runners.

PS: Unless you're thinking of letting Tamanous use this spell.
Dashifen
Aug 26 2005, 02:55 PM
Isn't the spell marked as sustained? Does that mean the target comes back if you stop sustaining the spell? If so, then couldn't go goo-ify a person, load the goo into a container of some sort and get said container into a secure location (i.e. mail it -- security scanning the package notwithstanding, I'm just brainstorming) and then drop the spell thus inserting a person into said secure location?
blakkie
Aug 26 2005, 03:10 PM
QUOTE (JongWK @ Aug 26 2005, 08:49 AM) |
It also prevents cyberware-hunting runners. |
With the marked drop in cyber costs i can't see there being a huge money in used cyber once you factor in the fencing cuts and stuff. You'd have to be stalking some high-end [read dangerous] cyber to make it a mainline job. Bullet money on the side when you happen to not be in danger, sure. But with the change that appears to happened in SR4 with a lot of gear going external, bullet money is grabbing commlinks and SL contact lenses.
Chiba Cowboy
Aug 26 2005, 03:29 PM
Can you have sex with the goo?
blakkie
Aug 26 2005, 03:32 PM
QUOTE (Chiba Cowboy) |
Can you have sex with the goo? |
Sabosect
Aug 26 2005, 03:40 PM
Actually, I was thinking of how this could be used for murder. Turn someone into goo, pour them into an opening in concrete or steel, and then stop concentrating. Make it a very tiny opening that doesn't open up into anything larger. The stream of blood that shoots out should be a sign of their death, and it'll confuse Lone Star until they bring the mages in.
Chiba Cowboy
Aug 26 2005, 03:48 PM
It has potential as a novel interrogation technique. Say you capture a couple of goons. You can 'turn to goo' one of them and use him to give his friend an enema. Tell him that if he doesn't start talking, you are going to tell the mage to stop concentrating....
blakkie
Aug 26 2005, 03:49 PM
QUOTE (Chiba Cowboy @ Aug 26 2005, 09:48 AM) |
It has potential as a novel interrogation technique. Say you capture a couple of goons. You can 'turn to goo' one of them and use him to give his friend an enema. Tell him that if he doesn't start talking, you are going to tell the mage to stop concentrating.... |
Ok, that is a little glimpse into your mind that i could have done without.
booklord
Aug 26 2005, 03:56 PM
QUOTE |
Actually, I was thinking of how this could be used for murder. Turn someone into goo, pour them into an opening in concrete or steel, and then stop concentrating. Make it a very tiny opening that doesn't open up into anything larger. The stream of blood that shoots out should be a sign of their death, and it'll confuse Lone Star until they bring the mages in. |
Since the goo has a barrier rating of Body + net hits then certainly think "pouring" it is definitely out.
What's more with that high a barrier rating it would be easier to pull the cyberware out of the enemies flesh body than the goo one! Do this to a big enough troll and it'll be like digging through concrete!
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