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maeel
i know this might be a 'bit' early, but does anyone have a clue, when street magic is supposed to hit the streets?
Grinder
I would guess 12/2005 or early 2006. They still have to put ot SoLA and the location book (forget the title) before that.

Oh, and System Failure. biggrin.gif
Nemo
@Grinder
The Locations Book is called "Runners Heaven"
Grinder
Thanks. smile.gif
Ranneko
I thought it was called "Runner Havens"
winterhawk11
I'm not sure when Street Magic is due out, but before it come the GM Screen/Booklet, Runner Havens, and On the Run (unless the schedule changes), all of which are currently being written.
Grinder
And System Failure. And SoLA. That's a lot. Hm, Street Magic in the end of 2006, given their speed on releases? eek.gif
Demonseed Elite
SoLA will not be a normal book release, so it doesn't really factor into the schedule. And as far as I know, System Failure is effectively done, and is just caught up in the whole printing/distribution process.
Grinder
Oh, that's the first time i read some information about the status of it here. Somewhere was mentioned that's it's written, ok, but no information if it's already been shipped.

Seems to me as if FanPro don't want it to get sold, as they're making no big rumour about it...
winterhawk11
QUOTE (Grinder)
Oh, that's the first time i read some information about the status of it here. Somewhere was mentioned that's it's written, ok, but no information if it's already been shipped.

Seems to me as if FanPro don't want it to get sold, as they're making no big rumour about it...

System Failure is done. Anything making it late at this point is printer/binder/distributor issues. I don't know exactly when it'll be out (I know they tried to have it for Gen Con but it didn't work out, so it's got to be reasonably close) but I suspect we'll be hearing something about it pretty soon.
Adam
We tried to get some copies done via a Print on Demand service for GenCon, and they told us they would have X number of copies for Wednesday, and in their world X = 0. Then they could us they would have X-Y on Friday, and that was also 0.

System Failure /is/ finished and will be going to press very soon.

As mentioned at the What's up with FanPro seminar, Shadows of Latin America will be released online-only via the HoloStreets.com service when it launches later this year.
tisoz
QUOTE (Adam)
We tried to get some copies done via a Print on Demand service for GenCon, and they told us they would have X number of copies for Wednesday, and in their world X = 0.

lol wobble.gif
mintcar
What´s Holostreet? My google search didn´t give any clues and the webb page itself has no usefull info.
Adam
HoloStreets is a subscription Shadowrun service, run by the same guys and similar to the BattleCorps.com service for Classic BattleTech. It will have fiction and game material available on a subscription basis, and likely some other perks for subscribers as well. It will probably launch later this year.
blakkie
So to get access to Shadows of Latin America we must purchase a HoloStreets subscription?

P.S. Back to work. Daddy wants his shiny, new PDF. nyahnyah.gif
Grinder
QUOTE (Adam)
System Failure /is/ finished and will be going to press very soon.

As mentioned at the What's up with FanPro seminar, Shadows of Latin America will be released online-only via the HoloStreets.com service when it launches later this year.

SF goes to press soon, means we can expect it in our FLGS at october?

I don't like the online-only version of SoLA. Refused to buy PDFs until today (prefer the "real" books) and don't wanna do so for SoLA (or buying an access to a website where the sb is put online). indifferent.gif
otaku mike
But the crux of the problem here is simple: how many people would buy a setting book written before the Second Crash, now that SR4 is released and the official timeline has been forwarded 5 years in the future? My guess: not enough to cover the printing costs.
Furthermore, it unfortunately makes little sense, commercially speaking, to release a product made for a "defunct" line. In a sum, it would be awkward to release a SR3 book now that we're in the SR4 era, even if said book is still 95% useable with SR4 (and actually is even necessary to understand a few things referenced in SR4 corebook).
Grinder
Sad but true.
Aku
the other advantage an online resource like that has, is that it can be updated (and i imagine it will be if its a subscription service, so that instead of saying in '75 that latin america looks like X in 2070, so i guess it's the same, the devs can continually update things, so that everyone's interested can see whre the drug carels are, what local wars are goigng on/are resolved etc etc. Personally, i kindof think that it's a good model for any sort of "locale" book.
Dashifen
QUOTE (Grinder)
[QUOTE=Adam,Aug 25 2005, 10:03 PM] I don't like the online-only version of SoLA. Refused to buy PDFs until today (prefer the "real" books) and don't wanna do so for SoLA (or buying an access to a website where the sb is put online). indifferent.gif

Kinko's and similar businesses will print and bind pdf's. Kinko's charges by the side of the page, though, so it's often better to print somewhere else if you can do so for free and then Kinko's will spiral bind it for like six bucks. Really a very nice way to save some money by purchasing PDFs and still get physical books out of the deal, often for less than the full price of the original book.
Grinder
I never heard of Kinko here in germany, but here are probably similar shops. But why pay 20$ for a PDF, print it at home (which costs money for ink and paper) and get it bound for another 5$ when the price for the physical book is ~28$? Nothing i would do.
Dashifen
Text searchable PDF document allowing your printed book to be amoung the players while you -- if you have a laptop or accessible computer -- can be using the PDF. I've actually got hard copy, printed copies, and PDF copies of almost all the SR3 "core" books for that very reason. Course the obsolete now but that doesn't take away from their usefullness over the past few months.
blakkie
QUOTE (Grinder)
I never heard of Kinko here in germany, but here are probably similar shops. But why pay 20$ for a PDF, print it at home (which costs money for ink and paper) and get it bound for another 5$ when the price for the physical book is ~28$? Nothing i would do.

Because then you can use Find to make up for crappy indexes. Plus assuming it costs mony for printing is only applicable some times. It is a employee perk for some people, though 350+ pages might be frowned upon at some places.
Grinder
I still don't see an advantage to buy a PDF, print it and get it out bound over buying a "real" book. For me it's not worth the few $/€ i save if i'd buy the PDF.
Spookymonster
The idea behind buying the PDF isn't to save a few bucks and print it yourself. If that's the only reason someone buys the PDF, they're either:
a) wasting money
b) underutilizing an excellent reference resource
c) a complete tool
d) All of the Above
blakkie
QUOTE (Grinder @ Aug 26 2005, 10:35 AM)
I still don't see an advantage to buy a PDF, print it and get it out bound over buying a "real" book. For me it's not worth the few $/€ i save if i'd buy the PDF.

It's not the savings, that is pretty much a push unless you have access to free [to you] printing. It's having the conveniences of the electronic form. Copy & pasting the text, text searching, and always the latest released version of the text.
Grinder
Which is not given when you print the PDF.

For me its a matter of preference: i can live without electronic updates (which are useful) and prefer to have a book in my hands instead of reading it at my computer screen.
blakkie
QUOTE (Grinder @ Aug 26 2005, 10:49 AM)
Which is not given when you print the PDF.

What is not given? The benefits? What, you think you have to toss out the PDF when you print a paper copy???

P.S. Another nice thing is the lack of a guilty feeling for writing in the margins of the paper copy. wink.gif
Grinder
Once you print the PDF you have the actual status with all updates/erratas to the given date. Any new one will not be on your printed version wink.gif That's what i meant. smile.gif
blakkie
QUOTE (Grinder @ Aug 26 2005, 10:55 AM)
Once you print the PDF you have the actual status with all updates/erratas to the given date. Any new one will not be on your printed version wink.gif That's what i meant.  smile.gif

Then you print i again. Or reprint the parts of it that changed if you went the binder route instead of dropping $5 to have it bound. Or you pen in the errata in the margins because you don't feel so bad about marking the crap out of the book.
Grinder
As i said: that's no real alternative to a real book, at least for me. Your suggestion are good and i would do so if i bought a PDF, no question. But i will never buy a PDF when a printed version is available.
Spookymonster
Given the "core mechanics are on page A, with exceptions on page B, oh and that bit of cyberware on page C overrides the optional rules in book D, as indicated by errata Z" nature of Shadowrun, I'll take an electronic search function any day of the year...
Grinder
When i can read a PDF while lying on my couch, then i'll use it too. smile.gif
Ancient History
So download it to your pda, lazy-bones.
Grinder
How could i forgot that option?

Oh s***, i don't own one. No, i don't wanna buy me one, i'm not that tech-freak. biggrin.gif
Nerbert
I didn't know PDAs could display pdfs in a useful, readable way.
Ancient History
The high-speed ones can. 'course, at that point you might as well buy a laptop and enjoy the nice warm glow on your belly.
Spookymonster
Mmmmm..... belly-glow......
hahnsoo
Hell, my PSP can display converted PDFs...
Pugwhan
QUOTE (tisoz)
QUOTE (Adam @ Aug 25 2005, 03:03 PM)
We tried to get some copies done via a Print on Demand service for GenCon, and they told us they would have X number of copies for Wednesday, and in their world X = 0.

lol wobble.gif

ONLINE only why is that? I HATE pdf files and having to use my computer to read stuff. And don't even go into "just print it out".
tisoz
QUOTE (Pugwhan)
QUOTE (tisoz @ Aug 25 2005, 02:19 PM)
QUOTE (Adam @ Aug 25 2005, 03:03 PM)
We tried to get some copies done via a Print on Demand service for GenCon, and they told us they would have X number of copies for Wednesday, and in their world X = 0.

lol wobble.gif

ONLINE only why is that? I HATE pdf files and having to use my computer to read stuff. And don't even go into "just print it out".

What do either of the posts you quoted have to do with your comment?

Leave me out of it, please.
Cain
QUOTE (Grinder)
I still don't see an advantage to buy a PDF, print it and get it out bound over buying a "real" book. For me it's not worth the few $/€ i save if i'd buy the PDF.

It's useful if your gaming group is on a budget. You can print multiple copies for much less than buying one for everyone.
Grinder
Never thought of that possibility. I'm getting old.... That's a good idea, yep. smile.gif
tisoz
QUOTE (Cain)
QUOTE (Grinder @ Aug 26 2005, 09:35 AM)
I still don't see an advantage to buy a PDF, print it and get it out bound over buying a "real" book. For me it's not worth the few $/€ i save if i'd buy the PDF.

It's useful if your gaming group is on a budget. You can print multiple copies for much less than buying one for everyone.

Isn't that also copyright infringement and illegal?
Aku
yes, yes, it would be
hahnsoo
Printing out copies of an eBook is different for every publisher, but here are DriveThruRPG.com's guidelines:
QUOTE
What can I do with my eBooks?

First, the one thing you should not do is make a copy of the eBook for another person. Contrary to what many file-sharing sites would have us believe, doing that is a copyright violation and more importantly, it seriously erodes the ability of publishers to continue to offer the best gaming products possible. It's not like rpg publishers are minting millions as it is, so your support against copyright piracy is always appreciated.
Watermarked eBooks

You may print your eBooks, and copy as many selections to the clipboard as you wish.
DRM Protected eBooks

By default, we package our books with rights that allow you to print unlimited copies, copy 10 selections of text (or 10 pages if a selection spans multiple pages) to the clipboard every 10 days. You can have your eBooks on up to 6 computers at once, so long as each of those computers is activated with your DRM account.

Note that you can only have 6 computers activated at any one time; however, the following is from Adobe Support: "If you have reformatted your hard drive or you have a new computer, you can call Customer Service at 800-272-3623 to get your activation reset. Press 1 for sales." We have used this number to reset activations with no difficulty.

Under these guidelines, you can print out the PDF as many times as you'd like, but you aren't supposed to give away copies of it. You can have multiple copies for your gaming group as long as they return them to you at the end of the gaming session.
Pugwhan
About the only advantage to PDF versions of the books is that within 24 hours of a books release its available as a free download somewhere out on the net. Although since I prefer supporting the manufacturer and my FLGS I end buying a copy anyway. But if Fanpro wants to go a pure PDF route on something I'll have no qualms downloading it for free somewhere..

nyahnyah.gif
Spookymonster
Enjoy your civil suit, Pugwhan.
Grinder
Some thoughts better stay in your mind and not in a posting here, where several FanPro-people are reading. sarcastic.gif
Fortune
Strangely, other than the Critters/GM Screen, I've seen no evidence of the 'official' PDFs anywhere on P2P networks. The only PDFs I know of are all home-made scans of regular books.
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