Yes we are asking that question. Too bad the anwer we get is much worse than the one any sensible father would give, that is; "five minutes sooner than last time you asked".

What is happening here is we ask and pops answers "2 and 1/2 hours from now", and we commence shouting and hitting eachother over the head like nice little kids until the given time comes. Then we ask again. And the process repeats itself.

Ya, with Adam still waiting on answers, and it being the weekend. Then there is Battlecorps. Chances of a PDF finished today getting put up there for sale on the weekend? I'd put it at nil.

See ya Monday, folks........

Mate ... I am SURE that you can comprehend a ton more SR information after spending the weekend with her.
Youll be way less frustrated (because of her and not checking srrpg.com) so consider checking srrpg.com once she had to leave and not a sec earlier.

I took the liberty inbetween rebuilding my IKEA kitchen to check on here but I am glad I didnt have to sit and stare at no updates.

Adam has done a great job, hes been pretty upfront on informations I had just loved to have heared from him: sorry, I tried all I could but next week it will be.

By now Id say, if I was him, itll be done next week, or the week after that.
We all would be WAY happy if he was earlier then planned

So ... turn off the PC and send me a IM sunday about the ... course of events *lol*

Tough choice for Adam then: "Do I leave them hanging without another estimate thereby covering my own ass, or do I give them one and risk letting them down again?"

I really hope the folks at FanPro are learning something about public relations during the course of this. It´s a simple fact that they have managed to piss of just about everybody who is interested at some point.

(I do agree that Adam has been way more honest and up front than could be expected of him. Question is if it has been a good thing)

The really scary part is that you are serious.

Of course I am serious. I can see the flaws in my proposal - but I can see even more in FanPros version ...

Yes, truely frightening.

AMEN!

Far as I'm concerned Adam should be taking the weekend off, enjoying himself, and getting back onto this on Monday, with a clear head, good nights sleep, and doing the best he can to ready the PDF the way he believes it should be, not some half assed, rushed out the door POS because some whiney twits are getting their panties in a bunch.

It didn't come out yesterday.

Big. Fraggin'. Deal.

Just because the PDF didn't come doesn't mean the world ends.

Get over it. Go outside, enjoy the last of these summer days while you can, and stop pestering Adam.

Only we haven't been given a date/time that we'd be able to buy the PDF from Battlecorps except that [ill chosen] date that Rob put up in the #6 FAQ.

First: thanks for calling the ambulance. I already am feeling better *sigh*

Second: Ever heard the word flame?

Third: I don't think that everything is easy.

Fourth: Yes, I have absolutely no idea of the publication business. My mother has been an author, but I never tried to release a book nor have I ever led a publishing company. All my experience with publishing is linked to software, homepages and administrating servers. So perhaps I should have shut my big mouth rather earlier. But why are you reading this thread if it pisses you off to here me whining?

Fifth: I have NEVER blamed anyone for being willful lazi or incompetent. I DO think rather highly of Adam Jury and all those developers out there, being them freelancers or FanPro employees.
I like FanPros products, especially Shadowrun. I DO like those pdfs. I DISLIKE being mucked about. And I do feel like this. And most companys DO keep to their schedule - so they must manage somehow.

Six: My proposal regarding those "beta releases" has been a serious proposal. As I already have stated I DO have some experience with software and it IS of great value to release a beta. I DO like betas. (And yes, it is costing the companys bandwith and traffic as well) I never asked for an open playtesting - I just would LOVE to have the pdf (with the rules as they would have been published anyway) unperfect and full of mistakes - but some time earlier - and would willingly participate in correcting it. And I DO think that it would help FanPro delivering a better product.

Seventh: I never proposed to have anyone fired. I just stated that I would probably have lost my job - and I WOULDN'T have liked that.

Eigth: I NEVER asked Jury or anybody else from FanPro to tell me a new release date - I JUST asked if anybody happens to have any information - perhaps someone who knows Mr. Jury or wherever this information could have been from.

Ninth: And I DIDN'T ask him to stop his vacation - somewhere I stated that I like finishing a job before I go into vacation - but I am I (and far from being perfect) and others like to do it another way. So I do grant him his vacation from all my heart - I hope he really could relax.

Tenth:
I do appologize if I pissed someone off or spamed to much or whatever - I never intended to.
I do appologize for my english as I am not a native speaker.
I do appologize for not having as much patiance as apparently some on this board seem to have.
I do NOT appologize for my opinion since it never has been meant as an insult to anyone or as a critic on someone.
I do NOT appologize for my proposal since it has been serious and since I DO believe that it would do FanPro good.
I do NOT appologize for really having looked forward to this release.
I do NOT appologize for feeling a bit mucked about.
I do NOT appologize for this answear (being it spam or not) since I had been insulted and since I really needed to respond. Just don't read it if you hate it.

Never the less that´s what´s happening if Adam is the dad in that allegory. He told us wednesday, then told us thursday, then told us next week (later specifying friday) then told us "when it´s done". Just jabing back at you a bit. I don´t much care about the unofficial estimates he made. To me they´re mostly just a testiment to an unusual honesty or personal touch (and a testiment to a rather bad case of time optimism).

At me? Well you missed badly then. But if you are going to play like that *throws mintcar's Gi Joe out the window* WHAT EVER HE SAYS I DIDN"T DO IT!

Gah. You´re being so damn sarcasticly removed all the time. I just wanted to dance, and I missed a beat. Well well, easy enough to do with this awkward medium.

(That means I was imagining you smiling when you wrote "are we there yet" and I thought I could build on that as a joke, all in good fun. I´m far to self-ironic to throw GI-Joes, that was not what I was trying to do. I was just building on your description of our behaviour, self-ironicly. I thought. Then again I´m not a native english speaker, so that might have been lost.)


@Fizzygoo: Smokin´poetry Fizzy

You are being treated with respect. If only i was working at Fanpro i could show you what a display of lack of respect would look like .....

*the present dissolves in a Rub-a-dubbers dream swirl to find blakkie in a dingy low-rent apartment, eating Kraft Dinner*

I said "if only" and here i am!

Now Triggerz how about you STFU? Yes, i understand that you are so hooked on SR that we could roll a cartful of fresh turds out the front door, hang a sign over them saying "Not Quite Finished Cavier", and you'd chow down on them and complain there weren't more. But the next day when your gut is acking, you have a temperature of 108ºF, and you have released you'd eaten shit, you'd just come back to us whining about how we don't care enough to finish the product before selling it.

Agreed. And while we're at it, trust me on this one: the only thing that stresses someone out more than missing a deadline set by their boss is missing a deadline they gave to their customer base. They don't need us giving them grief. They are giving themselves enough, consciously or unconsciously, whether they realize it or not, I assure you.

And remember, Friday wasn't actually a release date. When Adam responded to the place your bets posts, he said he was betting on sometime Friday because of his vacation. He didn't say it was Friday.

He was betting on Friday. I saw his capacity there in that very informal, what I felt comedic post topic, less as a representative of FanPro and more like a fellow Dumpshocker joining in on the fun.

Which means Friday was an unofficial estimate. And since that wasn't actually an official announcement from FanPro, whether he says he thinks he can get it done by Friday or not no one else there is going to feel obligated, per se, to do their part to meet that unofficial "deadline". And really, they shouldn't have to. It wasn't their "deadline".

Even when they posted about missing the Wednesday release date on the srrpg.com site, no one said it would be out by this week. They said, the e-book release would "likely" not be until sometime next (this) week. There's a lot of room to maneuver there. When someone says, "likely not be", they're not saying "will be", they're saying, "at the earliest, but I'm optimistic about it". Big, big difference.

And when it comes to Fridays as estimates, well, weekends being weekends and all--If you overshoot your estimate, you're going to lose a couple more days. Fact of life. They are not business days, which adds a whole ton of new complications if you want to hit one as a target.

But it was never a deadline, and this was clarified much more strongly later when Adam said, "It will be done when it's done."

That wasn't a bet.

That was a deadline.

Winter

On the contrary, we're calling on them to do their job.

I'd love to agree, I really would. Hell, I probably do—but this is a case where FanPro fucked up. They are not doing their jobs, release dates are slipping (here's where some of you whine "it's hard! They've had a lot of other things to do!" That's when you apply a good dose of not setting release dates.), FanPro is not conducting itself in a professional manner. That's all there is to say about it.

Edit: the fact that the Friday "deadline" was missed means nothing. That was a personal unofficial estimate by Adam. It's the official deadline of last Wednesday that should either not have slipped or not have been made in the first place.

~J

I completely concede that point. As clarification, my post was not in reference to people's reaction to the missing of the Wednesday deadline. I was addressing issues arising on these boards as a result of them "missing" the Friday "deadline".

Winter

People's definition of "sometime next week" may vary, but I have to agree that missing deadlines is something that happens. Project management is not that difficult and the past mistakes and snafus by Fanpro shows that this is an area that they are lacking.

I work in an environment where I need to meet stringent deadlines, where items are out of my control. This could range from ensuring communications to our clients are developed, printed, and mailed in a timely manner to having to put procedures in place to meet federal regulatory guidelines. If I or any member of my team fails to meet a deadline, I ensure that we set a realistic deadline and keep communication open to the stakeholders.

In the case of Fanpro, updating their website. I don't expect them to come into a forum and outline what is happening but I do expect them to at least outline what they are doing to fix it. And it does not take that much time to write up a quick blurb and post it on their website (specifically Fanpro's website.)

Well, i am aware there are typos. There is an errata here. If I was planning on getting a printed version, then yes, I'd be patient and wait for them to print it when they've had time to proofread it and all. I'm waiting for a PDF though, which we were told would be available by GenCon. You're telling me I would bitch because of the typos. I'm telling you that I can live with a few typos and would be happy if I could get an errata from the SR website a week from now, and maybe a new PDF fixing all the typos at some point in the future... like before Christmas.

I happen to have some time now and wish I could have started working on a SR4 campaign to play in September - getting characters ready and such. It's not the end of the world, but I do make plans based on other people's schedules sometimes, like anyone else not living in the woods by himself. FanPro announced I could get their stuff at GenCon. And now it's taking longer. You can ask me to quit whining if you find it annoying, but you're assuming I'd bitch if I got my way without actually knowing why I'd rather have the half-baked product now than the pretty thing later on.

The choice is not between a perfect product now or a perfect product tomorrow. The product is not perfect yet. I understand that, but I'd still rather have it now. You don't need to agree with me, you can tell me to quit whining if it bugs you, but you can't tell me that I'd whine anyways if I got my way. That's just disrespectful.

[EDIT: Fixed a typo.]

This is not relevant to their ability to make a schedule or lack thereof.

I lay off Adam because I like him personally and am inclined to not find fault with him for emotional reasons. I do not ask others to do the same.

~J

OT: It seems most of the germans over here are northern germans...