^^^ The same fate should await the dumb bastard that editted this PDF.
It's AWFUL.
Full Version: Ghosts With No Shells [System Failure SPOILERS]
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) | ||
[ Spoiler ] |
Well, there are two things speaking for a deal:
[ Spoiler ]
Well, it was an Omega Order, which is my understanding that all of the corps agree to gang up on the target in fulfillment of the decision to issue said Order. Just so happened that S-K pulled the trigger.
one word:
OUCH!!!
OUCH!!!
| QUOTE (snowRaven @ Sep 12 2005, 06:11 PM) |
| 1) I see no reason for Lofwyr to order KSAF to be delayed unless he (or S-K) had a personal interest - Lofwyr is not one to help out of the kindness of his own heart. 2) IF Lofwyr was the one who found Artie-boy, I have serious doubts that he would just give the information to Villiers without getting anything out of it. Whether it was a personal deal between Villiers and Golden Snout, a business deal between S-K and Novatech, or an investment made by Lofwyr to protect the shares he might've bought during the IPO, I would expect our scaled friend to have gotten something out of it... |
I just realized that this whole thread is labeled "SPOILER" so no one really needs to use spoiler tags.
Anyway, one theory as far as KSAF's relationship with Lofwyr is the fact that Lofwyr is the Loremaster. There was speculation that Dunkelzahn (the previous Loremaster) was involved in giving KSAF its uncanny information. Would Lofwyr seek to continue such a relationship? Who knows. But KSAF is a rinky-dink news station, and it's a great way to maintain a hindsight "plausible deniability" scenario ("Of course I knew about X. It was reported by that small news station, what was it called? Didn't you know?").
The Omega Order was put in by the Novatech representative to the Corporate Court at large (System Failure, p30). Omega Order means "open season" on that particular corp by all of the Megas and any other AA who wants to participate. (Corporate Shadowfiles pp 81-82, Corporate Download pp 15-16). Omega Orders are typically resolved quickly and messily, as befits the ultimate display of power from the Corporate Court, with often the full co-operation of the constituent members of the Corporate Court. Lofwyr may or may not have pulled the trigger (although I doubt he would have asked permission, as stated in the missive), but I don't think there were any personal or public corporate deals involved other than the good ol' boys at ZOG sticking together.
Damn ZOG...
Having read System Failure a few times now...I really would have liked to have seen something about the Pendragon Underground.
They built it up as the next big thing and it didn't get nary a whisper at the end of the world.
They built it up as the next big thing and it didn't get nary a whisper at the end of the world.
Just weathering the storm...
>>> Uther
>>> Uther
[this space left blank]
| QUOTE (Dashifen) |
| Just weathering the storm... >>> Uther |
Actually that's quite appropriate. There are several passing references to what happens in the British Isles and how the Ley War is progressing in the Winternight chapter (and there's a little surprise surrounding the Crown and another plot we've been threading hidden away in the final chapter)...
Oh, I was wondering what she was a Princess of.
Don't be so cryptic! This is the Spoiler thread! 
Johnny Spinrad is engaged to Princess Caroline of... X, where X is some European country. Given Synner's comment, I'm going to assume the Princess of Wales or whatever it is. I don't exactly have Shadows of Europe on hand at the moment.
[Edit]
Ah! Checked Loose Alliances. It's "Brit-Princess Caroline" (p.67).
Wow. Whadya know?
[/Edit]
[Edit 2]
The more I read about them in SR, the more I appreciate the lack of landed gentry in the U.S., and UCAS by extension.
[/Edit 2]
[Edit]
Ah! Checked Loose Alliances. It's "Brit-Princess Caroline" (p.67).
Wow. Whadya know?
[/Edit]
[Edit 2]
The more I read about them in SR, the more I appreciate the lack of landed gentry in the U.S., and UCAS by extension.
[/Edit 2]
Danke. 
hmmmmm....... thought it was Monaco for some reason. Silly me I guess. I even have Loose Alliances ! (like the one book I DO have). Wonder where I got that from . SO how old is Spinrad anyways? I recall (vaguely ) reading about the Birt-Prin the other day, and recall her being older as well. As in like 40-50's. Off base.
DE: my biggest gripe is also the whole "we can hack without a datajack" or any ware of any kind, and that in fact these technomancers are weakened by cyber. Guess they decided to focuse more on the mancer. Not the way I'll go with my game, but oh well. Sad thing is that I was getting interested in the whole 'Commando' thing (not freeballin', game runnin') but there are too many little things I don't like about SR4 to run it completely canon. Oh well, can't please everyone I guess.
DE: my biggest gripe is also the whole "we can hack without a datajack" or any ware of any kind, and that in fact these technomancers are weakened by cyber. Guess they decided to focuse more on the mancer. Not the way I'll go with my game, but oh well. Sad thing is that I was getting interested in the whole 'Commando' thing (not freeballin', game runnin') but there are too many little things I don't like about SR4 to run it completely canon. Oh well, can't please everyone I guess.
| QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0) |
| hmmmmm....... thought it was Monaco for some reason. Silly me I guess. I even have Loose Alliances ! (like the one book I DO have). Wonder where I got that from . SO how old is Spinrad anyways? I recall (vaguely ) reading about the Birt-Prin the other day, and recall her being older as well. As in like 40-50's. Off base. |
Johnny Spinrad's personal profile is on the official shadowrun site here:
http://www.shadowrunrpg.com/resources/soe_...e_spinrad.shtml
It says he was born on January 1, 2011.
thanks hahnsoo, I knew that it was there, but I iddn't have the time ATM to look it up. Damn I wish I could jsut give you 1 point of karma for every reference you provide.
| QUOTE (Synner @ Sep 12 2005, 02:10 AM) |
| It's also possible that a significant number of White House staffers and Secret Service men on duty on the particular night were secret NR-sympathizers (or at least a few strategically placed ones)... |
Well, here's the thing: If that was the case, they could have disappeared the President under cover of evacuation without killing anyone.
If what was published was the best Fanpro can do (and if it isn't, then that's swell... too... I guess), then they failed miserably.
| QUOTE (SL James @ Sep 19 2005, 12:41 PM) | ||
Well, here's the thing: If that was the case, they could have disappeared the President under cover of evacuation without killing anyone. |
So there is no middle ground where they have a number of people in place, but not everyone is in on the conspiracy so they still have to off some people. Perhaps making it a bit messy to give pausible deniability of a total inside job?
But then again you are all about trying to find the reasons of why it's wrong, less so about trying to figure out how it could happen that way. :/
So you think Air Force One is a feasible movie plot?
I am criticizing the utter lack of logic and the glaring absence of attention to detail. For a group of writers who think it's so important to inject realism into Shadowrun, they've managed to ignore reality so that, at best, they could rip off the plot to a mindless action movie.
The problem is that there are ways for it to happen, but this is trying to shoehorn in some feeble attempt at rational thinking after the fact. In the context of what is actually in the book, I don't buy it for a second.
Judging by what I have seen, soldiers somehow made it into the West Wing killing God only knows how many people in the process, stormed the Oval Office (breaking through the windows like they aren't bullet and shatter resistant), and made it out through the hoarde of Secret Service agent, Secret Service Uniformed Division and FedPol officers, the Emergency Response Team outside and the Counter Assault Team who have practiced in a mockup of the building and are waiting in the basement in the event that this ever happened, and then following that managed to disappear without a trace past the Counter-Sniper Team on the roof and whatever untold magical assets are at the Service's disposal.
And they managed to do this without anyone noticing in time to even get the President out of the Oval and into the PEOC.
Yes, you're right. I'm mistaken. Fanpro does indeed adhere to realism, and they aren't stupendously and embarassingly ignorant and full of shit.
I am criticizing the utter lack of logic and the glaring absence of attention to detail. For a group of writers who think it's so important to inject realism into Shadowrun, they've managed to ignore reality so that, at best, they could rip off the plot to a mindless action movie.
The problem is that there are ways for it to happen, but this is trying to shoehorn in some feeble attempt at rational thinking after the fact. In the context of what is actually in the book, I don't buy it for a second.
Judging by what I have seen, soldiers somehow made it into the West Wing killing God only knows how many people in the process, stormed the Oval Office (breaking through the windows like they aren't bullet and shatter resistant), and made it out through the hoarde of Secret Service agent, Secret Service Uniformed Division and FedPol officers, the Emergency Response Team outside and the Counter Assault Team who have practiced in a mockup of the building and are waiting in the basement in the event that this ever happened, and then following that managed to disappear without a trace past the Counter-Sniper Team on the roof and whatever untold magical assets are at the Service's disposal.
And they managed to do this without anyone noticing in time to even get the President out of the Oval and into the PEOC.
Yes, you're right. I'm mistaken. Fanpro does indeed adhere to realism, and they aren't stupendously and embarassingly ignorant and full of shit.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| The problem is that there are ways for it to happen, but this is trying to shoehorn in some feeble attempt at rational thinking after the fact. |
So there you are stuck, not having a shoehorn nor that other thing? Quite the pickle.
| QUOTE |
| So you think Air Force One is a feasible movie plot? |
Couldn't say, i've never bothered to see it.
Keep the timing of the event in mind. IIRC, this all took place the day after the Crash 2.0.
Well, for what it's worth, other than that somewhat ridiculous picture on pg. 99 or so, there really isn't any indication of HOW the President was kidnapped. Just that a spell killed some secret service agents; hardly an admission of "Elite Commandos raiding the White House". Admittedly, one would have a good amount of influence with an army backing you up, but even that's pretty preposterous. Insert cloak and dagger theory here.
I'd just as soon not speculate as to how the whole Haeffner kidnapping came about, but I would just as soon figure it was an intricate inside job. Not an "Air Force One" debacle.
Though there IS that damn picture, if you really wanted to press the point. Which I don't.
I'd just as soon not speculate as to how the whole Haeffner kidnapping came about, but I would just as soon figure it was an intricate inside job. Not an "Air Force One" debacle.
Though there IS that damn picture, if you really wanted to press the point. Which I don't.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| So you think Air Force One is a feasible movie plot? |
It was. Of course, in Air Force 1 a corrupt secret service agent smugled the terrorists onboard and killed his own men. Everything is easier within inside help.
I just find it out of this world that they killed off Captain Chaos.
And why does this thread make me put on "Reload" from the Matrix Reloaded soundtrack? I mean, think about it...
And why does this thread make me put on "Reload" from the Matrix Reloaded soundtrack? I mean, think about it...
How did Captain Chaos die anyway?
Someone shift-deleted him.
Those bastards!
Those bastards!
Sure it showed Delete Y/N, but Y was never shown as selected. His meat body is dead, but he might still be in the Matrix, just trapped in limbo.
I'm pretty sure that CC personna will make an appearance or two in the following years... ^_^
From what FastJack says in the SR4 BBB, there were several other deckers/shadowrunner that died too that day...
From what FastJack says in the SR4 BBB, there were several other deckers/shadowrunner that died too that day...
| QUOTE (FiveVenoms @ Sep 20 2005, 12:44 PM) |
| Though there IS that damn picture, if you really wanted to press the point. Which I don't. |
I will, because it didn't just manifest out of thin air onto my screen. Someone was responsible for it allowing it into the book, and I'd like to smack that person repeatedly for being stupid.
| QUOTE (JesterX) |
| I'm pretty sure that CC personna will make an appearance or two in the following years... ^_^ |
Let's hope his icon looks like Dom DeLuise, too.
| QUOTE (SL James) | ||
Let's hope his icon looks like Dom DeLuise, too. |
Dammit, Urgo!
TLE.
Is it ever made explicit who owns TLE? From System Failure, I gathered that Villiers set up TLE as aholding company to shield assets in the control of somebody trustworthy, and then it passed into ... someone else's hands.
Any idea who?
Thanks alot,
Is it ever made explicit who owns TLE? From System Failure, I gathered that Villiers set up TLE as aholding company to shield assets in the control of somebody trustworthy, and then it passed into ... someone else's hands.
Any idea who?
Thanks alot,
| QUOTE (hahnsoo) | ||||
Dammit, Urgo! |
Huh?
| QUOTE (ef31415) |
| . Is it ever made explicit who owns TLE? |
My first guess would be his ex wife, but they still seem to get along to well for that possibility.
| QUOTE (SL James @ Sep 22 2005, 09:07 PM) | ||
Huh? |
Dom Deluise has played a virtual (and annoying) Ghost-in-the-machine persona before, on Stargate SG-1, named "Urgo". I have a feeling the only reason he was on the show at all is because his son Peter Deluise (21 Jumpstreet, Seaquest DSV) is one of the directors.
| QUOTE | ||
My first guess would be his ex wife, but they still seem to get along to well for that possibility. |
I doubt it, especially considering the passage in System Failure indicating that Samantha was considering selling her shares to TLE in return for capital to buy out Renraku. The rumors range from Vampires to a (former) close personal friend to a dragon.
| QUOTE (hahnsoo @ Sep 23 2005, 06:44 AM) | ||||
Dom Deluise has played a virtual (and annoying) Ghost-in-the-machine persona before, on Stargate SG-1, named "Urgo". I have a feeling the only reason he was on the show at all is because his son Peter Deluise (21 Jumpstreet, Seaquest DSV) is one of the directors. |
It's still on? Anyway, that wasn't what I had in mind.
| QUOTE (SL James) |
| It's still on? Anyway, that wasn't what I had in mind. |
Yup, currently in its 9th season. But this particular episode was made several years ago, somewhere in the 3rd or 4th seasons. Dom Deluise is an... interesting guy. His cookbooks are pretty good, though.
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