I just got this from my distributor:
"Got this just minutes ago..
“Due to some unforseen circumstances Studio 2 Publishing is not shipping Shadowrun 4th Edition this week. The release date of October 3rd has been delayed.”
NO new release date was given. Will update when information is available."
I wish I could say that I am surprised.
Full Version: Another missed release date. No book Oct 3rd.
Oh my that makes me giggle.
I wonder if that's just if you ordered through Studio 2, or all distributors.
To my knowledge, the chain of distribution goes from FanPro to the printer to Studio 2 to all distributors.
This is nothing new. The delay may only mean they're trying for a closer-to-Christmas distribution.
You know, I'm willing to put up with pre-errata books, so that I can have a LE copy, and in a timely manner. But at this rate, I'd be better off waiting for the second printing.
Truly pathetic. What a way to run a business.
| QUOTE (Smed) |
| Truly pathetic. What a way to run a business. |
Yeah, we're not too impressed with the bindery that lied to us, telling us weeks ago that all the books were finished, when they actually weren't.
*edit*
Ouch.
That is the suck, as they say.
That is the suck, as they say.
I just checked Studio 2's store and they list the BBB as being in "stock" Oct. 10
Linky
It remains to be seen whether that's still true or not.
Linky
It remains to be seen whether that's still true or not.
Adam, There are probably NDA style and other legally binding issues that you can't answer this, but i'm bored..., and wondering if fanpro has any recourse againist the binder in that situation, legally?
I would imagine that somewhere along the line, there is a contract with them, however, the proof of burden is on fanpro, and proving that sales are lost because they failed to complete their part of the job in an adequate and timely manner is undoubtly difficult, but is something i thought of...
I would imagine that somewhere along the line, there is a contract with them, however, the proof of burden is on fanpro, and proving that sales are lost because they failed to complete their part of the job in an adequate and timely manner is undoubtly difficult, but is something i thought of...
I would hope they are getting a discount on the run for the missed date. If not, they should really consider such a clause for the next run.
I suppose the next question is will the errata-updated PDF be released on October 3rd as planned or delayed until the next release date?
woudl hope that they are getting a discount, and looking at another binder all together for the next run (which, i think i remember adam saying that was being done)
having dragged myself out of bed at 7AM in Indy retroactively becomes a better idea by the week.
| QUOTE (Adam) | ||
Yeah, we're not too impressed with the bindery that lied to us, telling us weeks ago that all the books were finished, when they actually weren't. |
Which you told us the other day when the release date was announced. Now we find out that that was completely wrong and off by a entire week. Will we once again get another bump October 5th telling us not till the 17th?
I suspect that the order of things went something like this:
1)Binder tells Fanpro "we'll have the books done by xx/yy/2005"
2)Fanpro says ok, let us know when they're done and we'll announce a release date
3)Binder says "OK, books are done" <crosses fingers behind his back>
4)Fanpro says "ok, on Oct. 3rd we're releasing"
5)Binder says just not "HAHA tricks on you, they're not really done, hahahaha!"
6)Fanpro again has to chance the date, telling the binder "ok, this time, they're DONE when you tell us, or there's gonna be trouble with my cousin "Little Nicky" an his base ball bat."
1)Binder tells Fanpro "we'll have the books done by xx/yy/2005"
2)Fanpro says ok, let us know when they're done and we'll announce a release date
3)Binder says "OK, books are done" <crosses fingers behind his back>
4)Fanpro says "ok, on Oct. 3rd we're releasing"
5)Binder says just not "HAHA tricks on you, they're not really done, hahahaha!"
6)Fanpro again has to chance the date, telling the binder "ok, this time, they're DONE when you tell us, or there's gonna be trouble with my cousin "Little Nicky" an his base ball bat."
| QUOTE (cartoonlad) |
| I suppose the next question is will the errata-updated PDF be released on October 3rd as planned or delayed until the next release date? |
That was never the plan. The PDF has already been updated once, and the second update is scheduled to coincide with the second print run of the core book, not the first..
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||
That was never the plan. The PDF has already been updated once, and the second update is scheduled to coincide with the second print run of the core book, not the first.. |
but, an appliciple question, is will the release of the second run, coincide with the release of the first run, its actualyl possible, if all of the first run gets caught up in preorders...
Drop bear ninjas, ATTACK!
I don't know who they should attack, but someone deserves something for this....Grrrr.
I don't know who they should attack, but someone deserves something for this....Grrrr.
| QUOTE (Adam @ Sep 28 2005, 01:41 PM) | ||
Yeah, we're not too impressed with the bindery that lied to us, telling us weeks ago that all the books were finished, when they actually weren't. |
Yep just keep passing the buck!
It doesn't really matter though. It's not like the customers are going to be pissed off at your bindery. It's Fanpro that's going to suffer. What a joke.
It's not uncommon for binders to botch a job after it's been actually bound. Paperback books are first bound and then trimmed. If the trimming gets botched (wrong size or other issue) then each one trimmed wrong is utterly useless.
This happened recentlly to a small publisher friend of mine (who scans this board on occasion, btw): The books were all bound. His people talked to the bindery and they were told binding was done. It was TECHNICALLY done, meaning that they were all bound per se, but they had not yet been trimmed. Then when they trimmed them a large percentage were trimmed to the wrong size, ruining them. Needless to say, the binder eventually took care of reprinting them (they were also the printer) but the problem caused a missed ship date. My friend moved on to another vendor.
This happened recentlly to a small publisher friend of mine (who scans this board on occasion, btw): The books were all bound. His people talked to the bindery and they were told binding was done. It was TECHNICALLY done, meaning that they were all bound per se, but they had not yet been trimmed. Then when they trimmed them a large percentage were trimmed to the wrong size, ruining them. Needless to say, the binder eventually took care of reprinting them (they were also the printer) but the problem caused a missed ship date. My friend moved on to another vendor.
| QUOTE (coolgrafix) |
| It's not uncommon for binders to botch a job after it's been actually bound. Paperback books are first bound and then trimmed. If the trimming gets botched (wrong size or other issue) then each one trimmed wrong is utterly useless. This happened recentlly to a small publisher friend of mine (who scans this board on occasion, btw): The books were all bound. His people talked to the bindery and they were told binding was done. It was TECHNICALLY done, meaning that they were all bound per se, but they had not yet been trimmed. Then when they trimmed them a large percentage were trimmed to the wrong size, ruining them. Needless to say, the binder eventually took care of reprinting them (they were also the printer) but the problem caused a missed ship date. My friend moved on to another vendor. |
It's all semantics. It doesn't change the result and no one is going to care who's fault it is in the publishing food chain. The fact is Fanpro dropped the ball the rest is just conjecture.
I don't see what you are accusing them of. The book was actually finished and ready for GenCon (some copies were even sold there!). It isn't like FanPro didn't get it done. Their part was completed on time, and the book has been held up for reasons beyond their control.
What is it that you expect them to do?
What is it that you expect them to do?
One word: Pathetic
My gamers who were lucky enough to go to GenCon are contemplating whether we will actually be running SR4 or sticking with modified SR3 rules. Meanwhile, I, being one of the primary GM's, am STILL WAITING FOR THE BLOODY BOOK!!!
My gamers who were lucky enough to go to GenCon are contemplating whether we will actually be running SR4 or sticking with modified SR3 rules. Meanwhile, I, being one of the primary GM's, am STILL WAITING FOR THE BLOODY BOOK!!!
we currently have one hardcopy and a number of PDF copies, so we run with laptops, which has become very useful for AR communications.
| QUOTE (Darksong) |
| we currently have one hardcopy and a number of PDF copies, so we run with laptops, which has become very useful for AR communications. |
indeed, especialy if you're running something like rendevous where you don't need internet acess to get instant messaging
...wish more of my players had this 
I'm hoping that, by the time the book ships, that Fanpro has taken the time to make cosmetic, clarifing, and errata changes for the mass printing of those books... at least... I would assume they would take this time to do it...
I can wait. Its annoying but perhaps the book will be better for it.... but before X-mas please...
I can wait. Its annoying but perhaps the book will be better for it.... but before X-mas please...
Bad assumption. It's usually safe to assume that they print the books before they bind them, so no matter how long this delay takes your first-print-run copy isn't going to be any better for it.
~J
~J
no shock considering this is how its been since i started playing in 93.
Wherever the actual problem lays it's STILL Fanpro's fault.
I would be a little more specific. Ben. Maybe you're just too brief. It's not exactly FanPro's fault; they just wind up catching all the grief. I mean, how many people here know the name of the printer or binder? I don't, so my first instinct is to take it out on the people who said, "It'll be out on xx/yy/05."
At this point, xx seems to equal ((1d6/2)+9) and yy=1d30, but I digress. Whether Fanpro decides to take their business elsewhere after this fiasco, or take some other action against whoever actually TRULY dropped the ball, well, that is out of our hands. We can hope that they'll do something to prevent this ever happening again, but realistically, all parties concerned are human and therefore subject to error.
At this point, xx seems to equal ((1d6/2)+9) and yy=1d30, but I digress. Whether Fanpro decides to take their business elsewhere after this fiasco, or take some other action against whoever actually TRULY dropped the ball, well, that is out of our hands. We can hope that they'll do something to prevent this ever happening again, but realistically, all parties concerned are human and therefore subject to error.
| QUOTE (jervinator) |
| I would be a little more specific. Ben. Maybe you're just too brief. It's not exactly FanPro's fault; they just wind up catching all the grief. I mean, how many people here know the name of the printer or binder? I don't, so my first instinct is to take it out on the people who said, "It'll be out on xx/yy/05." At this point, xx seems to equal ((1d6/2)+9) and yy=1d30, but I digress. Whether Fanpro decides to take their business elsewhere after this fiasco, or take some other action against whoever actually TRULY dropped the ball, well, that is out of our hands. We can hope that they'll do something to prevent this ever happening again, but realistically, all parties concerned are human and therefore subject to error. |
Thats where things rub me the wrong ways.
Sure you can blame the binder. But lets take one step back. Did FanPro actualy get references for these people? Did FanPro check these guys out? Or instead did they just contract to the lowest bidder with the biggest smile and 'best' promises?
Books come out all the time. Even smaller series of books come out on time, by lesser known authors. How is it that FanPro can't even manage to get a book out like this in a timely manner? Its absolutely rediculous.
FanPro is still at fault here no matter how you slice it. Hell they haven't even bothered to change the date on the main site yet. Thats ignorant. When their own distributor says the street date isn't till the 10th and people who are connected with fanpro and the website obviously know about it, and they won't bother informing their customers.
I don't think its asking too much for them to act responsible. To act like a real company.
and shadow, what would you say if fanpro DID check references? and none of them said they ever had any problems? check more references? and they all say there have been no problems? at some point, "check more references" becomes pointless.
Also, remeber, that IIRC what Adam said, "Fanpro" is actually just a 1 man company, Rob Boyle (i think). Everyone else, Adam included, are free-lancers. That most likely also goes for the website developer, who, perhaps Rob or adam have yet to get a hold of (because he's free lance, maybe he's out of town with another client) or, perhaps, he hasnt had the time, because, while updating the release date isn't an "emergancy project" maybe he has another one that HAS to be done tomarrow, or he doesnt get paid.
It just seems to me like you've read a few too many "Business Theory" books, beleives no matter what, the customer is always right, and that the only entity that could be blamed for something is the start/end of the line (depending)
Also, remeber, that IIRC what Adam said, "Fanpro" is actually just a 1 man company, Rob Boyle (i think). Everyone else, Adam included, are free-lancers. That most likely also goes for the website developer, who, perhaps Rob or adam have yet to get a hold of (because he's free lance, maybe he's out of town with another client) or, perhaps, he hasnt had the time, because, while updating the release date isn't an "emergancy project" maybe he has another one that HAS to be done tomarrow, or he doesnt get paid.
It just seems to me like you've read a few too many "Business Theory" books, beleives no matter what, the customer is always right, and that the only entity that could be blamed for something is the start/end of the line (depending)
Exactly. Whether it's the binder that's specifically at fault in this case or not, FanPro chose to use those guys. It was their decision, and now that they've got to deal with that decision, they're pointing fingers instead.
| QUOTE (Aku @ Sep 29 2005, 08:44 AM) |
| and shadow, what would you say if fanpro DID check references? and none of them said they ever had any problems? check more references? and they all say there have been no problems? at some point, "check more references" becomes pointless. Also, remeber, that IIRC what Adam said, "Fanpro" is actually just a 1 man company, Rob Boyle (i think). Everyone else, Adam included, are free-lancers. That most likely also goes for the website developer, who, perhaps Rob or adam have yet to get a hold of (because he's free lance, maybe he's out of town with another client) or, perhaps, he hasnt had the time, because, while updating the release date isn't an "emergancy project" maybe he has another one that HAS to be done tomarrow, or he doesnt get paid. It just seems to me like you've read a few too many "Business Theory" books, beleives no matter what, the customer is always right, and that the only entity that could be blamed for something is the start/end of the line (depending) |
Actualy my theory after working in retail is the customer is almost always wrong.
However its never right to misinform your customers. If we had a sign up that said something was 19.99 and it was realy 69.99 now but one of us screwed up. We couldn't tell the customer sorry you have to pay 69.99, we had to take the hit and sell it at 19.99.
If FanPro did check reference, if they did check the guys out then yes I would back off somewhat. At that point there was a royal fuckup on the binders end that Fanpro couldn't concieve of due to the information they had from the references and such.
But IIRC that webmaster is Adam (could be very much wrong mind you). Both Rob and Adam have posting abilities as far as I know which should not involve having to get ahold of anyone special. But yeah you're right. Informing their fans and customers has never been top priority. Just take the PDF for example. They didn't tell us till the day after that it wasn't going to be up on weds. Heck no one knew there was a delay except for the people here. And thats wrong and bad buisness practice.
Its like telling your customers you'll be open on date x. And customers line up around the block to get in. And they wait, and they wait. Then the next day at opening time you walk up to the store and people are staring at you and you go "oh yeah we weren't able to open yesterday i'm just grabbing my stuff...maybe we'll open up sometime next week, or maybe not...see ya".
This is all kinda useless really. I'm sure they wanna sell their product, and are just as unhappy (probably much more) than any of us over the delay.
| QUOTE |
| Actualy my theory after working in retail is the customer is almost always wrong. |
I agree, did retail for 5 years, and still can't get a job in my field, so i may end up back in it soon.
| QUOTE |
| But IIRC that webmaster is Adam (could be very much wrong mind you). Both Rob and Adam have posting abilities |
But again, remember, Adam is a free lancer, and if things come down to it, it might get missed or passed over for something that needs to get done, and will be paying..
| QUOTE (Squinky) |
| This is all kinda useless really. I'm sure they wanna sell their product, and are just as unhappy (probably much more) than any of us over the delay. |
I agree.
I'm more concern with the quality of the product than I am its actual ship date. It being late a few weeks or a few months won't cause me to skip any gaming time. In the end, it only hurts fanpro's cash flow. I'm sure they are more upset than I.
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| That most likely also goes for the website developer, who, perhaps Rob or adam have yet to get a hold of (because he's free lance, maybe he's out of town with another client) or, perhaps, he hasnt had the time, because, while updating the release date isn't an "emergancy project" maybe he has another one that HAS to be done tomarrow, or he doesnt get paid. |
We're not talking a site redesign here. It doesn't take a web developer to change a date.
~J
thats true kage, but if theres only one person with server/ftp rights, then, its one person that can do it.
We know for a fact that both Adam and Rob can post news on the website. We know that Adam knows there is a problem. Therefore, one has to wonder why someone (for instance, Adam) hasn't posted on the Shadowrun website saying that the release date has been pushed back again.
Perhaps they're hoping to resolve the situation so that there is no delay. But probably not.
Perhaps they're hoping to resolve the situation so that there is no delay. But probably not.
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| thats true kage, but if theres only one person with server/ftp rights, then, its one person that can do it. |
You don't nessicarily need either of those sets of rights.
All you need is a login page thats hidden from standard users and a ability to post news through that. Its realy not that hard.
It'd be simliar to a blog.
How many line developpers/freelancers does it take to change a lightbulb?
...
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
...
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
| QUOTE (coolgrafix) |
| To clarify, are you guys complaining about this: SR4 Product Page or this: Home Page Release Date ? |
Oh my i didn't even see that. Didn't look that far. Actualy I'd complain about both since both are wrong, the product page being the worse off.
Does anyone on here play "Classic Battletech". Fanpro does that also, and I'm wondering are they seeing the same kinds of production delays?
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