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Velocity
This is the skeleton for a run I'm designing; I've yet to really weave the sinew and muscle around it, but I thought I'd get your feedback first.

Nova & Sunday_Gamer, you know the drill.

[ Spoiler ]
Crusher Bob
[ Spoiler ]
hyzmarca
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Velocity
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Velocity
I'm not in the habit of bumping threads just for the sake of it, but I was hoping to get some more feedback on my initial post. I won't bump it again. wink.gif
DocMortand
Not bad, not bad.

Of course, I've already exposed my group to the Shutdown first hand, so I think they may go "Oh no, not again" if I were to throw this one at them. smile.gif
fistandantilus4.0
sorry, I fell out of my chair after the 5th 'marketing'..... I wasn't even drinking....
Velocity
Believe me, I looked for a reasonable synonym. smile.gif
Dogsoup
QUOTE (Velocity)
[ Spoiler ]

Velocity, please watch "Session 9".
Velocity
QUOTE (Dogsoup)
Velocity, please watch "Session 9".

Session 9... David Caruso, right? Something about a work crew in an abandoned psychiatric hospital? I rented it a couple of years ago but I remember being disappointed with it--don't remember why.

For those of you who haven't seen the movie, don't read this:

[ Spoiler ]

It's a good example of a team breaking down along their psychological fault lines, but PCs rarely succumb to that kind of manipulation, unfortunately.
Dogsoup
QUOTE ("Velocity")
Session 9... David Caruso, right? /...
Yeah;
[ Spoiler ]

As for SR...
[ Spoiler ]

And now back to our regular Deus programs!
Dogsoup
Hm, seems like I can't edit the above post without fucking it up. Well, I only wanted to say that you once again have provided a brilliant, epic and gothic scenario, Velocity.
Dog
Session 9 is a beautiful idea for a run. It would require more subtlety than most, on the part of the GM.
Guy I know worked on it. Says there was a whole subplot scripted and shot, that never made the cut. Revealed a whole other big nasty in the works. D'you notice the shots that looked like someone peeking around corners at the characters from hiding? But anyway....

If you agree that Session 9 is a cool run, check out "The Bunker," an English flick about German soldiers in the last days of WWII, and the "horrors" of war. Would also make a wicked run.
Backgammon
This campaing idea made me come in my pants. I can't express it any other way. I will steal the sealed-off-aquadome-of-nomad-hell. Thank you.
hyzmarca
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Velocity
QUOTE (Dogsoup)
Well, I only wanted to say that you once again have provided a brilliant, epic and gothic scenario, Velocity.

embarrassed.gif Gee, thanks. I think it could potentially be a really gripping, creepy run. I still need to flesh it out a bit though... I'll keep using this thread to bounce my ideas off of people and post the finished product at some point.
nick012000
Has the uber-nomad been Named by the scientist?

I think the irony of humanity creating a Named horror from an unNamed one is amusing.
Velocity
[ Spoiler ]
nick012000
Nomads are very minor horrors. If it's gone through a process analogous to other spirits going Free, then it would almost certainly has become a Named horror, and probably one of the first to arrive in the Sixth world, other than Yssrgrathe (who got blown up by Aina).

As far as game effects, just make it follow the rules for Free Spirits. d3 Free Spirit powers, Spirit Energy 1, and a True Name.

I would give it the Sorcery power, and a few custom spells (Onionskin and Skinshift).
Velocity
QUOTE (Backgammon)
This campaing idea made me come in my pants. I can't express it any other way. I will steal the sealed-off-aquadome-of-nomad-hell. Thank you.

Hey, by all means: take it, make it yours and have a great time. As it continues to take shape, I'll keep posting the details. Eventually, I'd like to produce a short (2-3 pages) PDF document in the style of the published adventures. There's still some plot elements I have to straighten out first, though.
Velocity
QUOTE (nick012000)
If it's gone through a process analogous to other spirits going Free, then it would almost certainly has become a Named horror, and probably one of the first to arrive in the Sixth world

Is that implausible or absurd? I'm serious, does the idea of a named Horror "evolving" (and I'm using the term loosely) from a nomad seem, well... silly? It sounds okay to me, but what I know about Horrors would fit in a gnat's ear.

QUOTE (nick012000)
a few custom spells (Onionskin and Skinshift).

How what now?
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Velocity @ Oct 9 2005, 10:57 PM)
QUOTE (nick012000)
a few custom spells (Onionskin and Skinshift).

How what now?

nick012000 thinks you should give the nomad some spells that mimic Horror Powers. Although, it would be just as simple to give it unique powers that are Horror Powers or Unique Powers tht no one has ever seen before.

[ Spoiler ]
Velocity
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
nick012000 thinks you should give the nomad some spells that mimic Horror Powers.

I was thinking of using the standard 'Free Spirit' rules for now and if the nomad survives the scenario, I can worry abut it developing unique powers down the line. I'm a little concerned about the creature being too powerful though: 'basic' nomads are quite tough and if Iapply the 'Free Spirit' rules, it might be ridiculously powerful...
Velocity
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nick012000
I would say to dump Personal Domain and go with Sorcery, but that's just me.

Also, Nomads do have the Materialization power: they appear as amorphous patches of blackness about half a meter accross, according to Critters, p. 38.
Velocity
I thought perhaps that Sorcery might be a bit much, because it's a pretty radical change for a nomad to develop the ability to cast spells. Aura Masking and Hidden Life are both in line (IMO) with the overall nomad "concept," but Sorcery seems to be a real departure.

Also, Sorcery allows it an awful lot of options and already I'm worried about this thing being too powerful.
hyzmarca
[ Spoiler ]
Velocity
I wasn't really imagining a D&D-style 'top-of-the-bad-guy-pyramid' confrontation with the nomad; I don't like 'Final Boss' epic battles (in Shadowrun, anyway). However, on some level there will be confrontation with this creature and I do want the PCs to be able to survive the adventure. They're an effective team and I give them a lot of credit, but I've never had an antagonist with stats like these in my campaign. eek.gif

Right now, I'm thinking that the nomad has possessed Grandin (the extraction target) and has placed its hidden life within him. The possession provides an interesting challenge: how to get the nomad out of Grandin so they can rescue the guy and collect the big payout?

Also, by (secretly) making him the nomad's Life Vessel, I have an easy way to bring the spirit back at some point in the future...

How does that sound?
Nkari
Wouldnt the nomad try to get back Grandin right away? Or destroy the PC's as a reflective action for forcing him out of Grandin ?

Is there something about the PC's that the Nomad can find interesting enough not to kill them on sight ? Especially if they try to evict him from his Host body, that is allso his Hidden life and run off with it ?
Velocity
QUOTE (Nkari)
Wouldnt the nomad try to get back Grandin right away? Or destroy the PC's as a reflective action for forcing him out of Grandin?

Thanks for the questions. I obviously need to get all of this straight before I write up the adventure. smile.gif

Unless I'm mistaken (and please correct me if I am), if the possessed individual suffers Deadly Physical damage, the possessing spirit is forced out of the body. While this is a risky move--considering that the Johnson wants the target alive--it is possible to deal Deadly damage to Grandin and then immediately apply measures to save him.

Alternately, the spirit can be Banished by the team's shaman (who is a Grade 3 Initiate).

I understand that this is really challenging, but it seems feasible to me. Am I being unrealistic?
Dawnshadow
[ Spoiler ]
Velocity
QUOTE (Dawnshadow)
Banishing a Force 18 (effective 19) is "possible" for a grade 3 initiate... but about as likely as sniping a great dragon with a pistol.

It seems like a number of logistical problems we're encountering stem from the fact that the spirit is of such a ridiculously high Force. Maybe I should re-think that aspect of the adventure...

Normally, a nomad that reaches Force 18 splits into two separate Force 9 nomads. When I came up with the idea for an "evolving" nomad, I thought that it should stay at Force 18 (hence the reason for its "ascension" to a higher order of consciousness) but now I'm reconsidering that idea.

How about this: the Force 18 nomad, upon being freed from captivity, immediately splits into two separate Force 9 nomads: one attacks Grandin and the other attacks his research assistant. Although he's a competent mage--and an Initiate--Grandin was caught completely off-guard (coughplotdevicecough). He and his assistant both succumb to the nomads' attacks and become possessed. From there, the "infestation" easily spreads across the facility.

In the case of Grandin's possession, because the nomad was subtly 'altered' by its prolonged captivity, the act of possessing him results in the creation of a Free Spirit. The same did not happen with the research assistant because Grandin is also an Initiate and had a unique relationship with the nomad before it was freed.

Does that work better? Does it make sense? If you were a player, would you roll your eyes at this explanation?
Nkari
I really like the basic idea you have so dont scratch it, just make sure the PCs have some sort of way to scare off the nomad.. perhaps create something regarding the Nomads creation that he greatly fears and will flee if he sees it.. and above all do not put his hidden life in the extraction object, but rather in some non living object that the characters simply will not leave behind, no matter what, but give them some sort of warnings that things are not allright in here.. (as if all the spirits/zombies etc wouldnt be enough) have them feel some omnipotent presence in the facility, the shaman catching glimpts of it every now an then.. but never more than quick flashes, whispers that could be mistaken for ones own thoughts, goose bumps.. you name it.. something should be seriously wrong with this place, something un natural..


And if the Item gets left behind, then just have the nomad spark a interest in one of the characterts, perhaps the shaman, and it will continue to track them when they leave the facility and starts killing random people that the characters have had some sort of contact with, dont let this happen to often tho, and it should probably not kill off any real important npcs.. but the more contact the characters have with certain people the more likley the Nomand wants to know why and posess the poor bugger..

Have the shaman get that omnious feeling from time to time.. that something is not right.. those whispers coming to them while they sleep at random intervalls etc..


So much potential for some nice horror with this, especially if the group are a bunch of paranoid runners and allready has some mofos on their tail since old.. devil.gif
Velocity
QUOTE (Nkari)
I really like the basic idea you have so dont scratch it

I won't scrap the basic idea, but I think a Force 18 Free Spirit might be excessive. smile.gif Besides, even the reduced Force is pretty impressive...

QUOTE (Nkari)
and above all do not put his hidden life in the extraction object, but rather in some non living object that the characters simply will not leave behind, no matter what

The reason I'm tempted to make Grandin the subject of Hidden Life is this:

Ultimately, I want Grandin to be a sympathetic character. I'm sick and tired of the "heinous Aztechnology mage" stereotype; I think it's lazy storytelling. While Grandin is cynical and maybe even a little callous, he's not a bad person and will be sincerely revolted by the terrible things he's done while under the spirit's influence. In fact, he might even be able to help the PCs "destroy" the nomad once he's freed from its control (he is a competent mage, after all).

Later (months or years from now), if I decide to bring the nomad back, it can "reform" directly within Grandin and the PCs can once again deal with the moral dilemmas.

Also--perhaps just as importantly--the Johnson hiring the PCs for this run works for Deus. Grandin's being extracted for his marketing savvy, which the AI wants to exploit for its own purposes. It'd be interesting to have the nomad 'reclaim' Grandin while he's deep within the arcology, under Deus' influence... vegm.gif
hyzmarca
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nick012000
Well, a martial arts troll adept with a polearm weapon focus would kick its ass when it's materialized. The weapon focus punches through its Immunity to Normal Weapons, he has Imp. Ability (Polearms) 6, and a reach of 3, resulting in a very disrupted materialized spirit when he adds in the Combat Pool.
Velocity
Well, yes--yes it would. smile.gif However, there isn't a physical adept in the group, much less one with a polearm weapon focus. Besides, I wasn't planning on having the spirit materialize: no spirit should ever make itself vulnerable like that if it doesn't have to...
Velocity
Free Spirit (Force 9 nomad)

N.B.: As a nomad, its Force (and therefore its Attributes) are fluid. Beginning at Force 9, it drains Essence and its Force increases until it reaches 18. It then divides, "birthing" a new Force 9 nomad and is itself reduced to Force 9. The cycle begins anew.

Whaddya think?


B: 6
Q: 3 (x3)
S: N/A

C: 6
I: 6
W: 6

E: 9
R: 5

Initiative: 16 + 1D6

Spirit Energy: 1

Compulsion (special: homicidal mania)
Essence Drain (modified)
Immunity (Normal Weapons)
Materialization
Possession

Aura Masking
Hidden Life
nick012000
Shouldn't the Spirit Energy be added to its Force for the purposes of its stats? Also, it should gain a new Free Spirit Power every time it increases Force. So, just make the good doctor murder his secretary, and it suddenly gets 6 new powers, along with the 6 new points of Force...

I have a feeling that Harlequin would get involved very, very quickly. Fortunately for the PCs, he has a job offer for them. An Astral Quest, to its home metaplane, to learn its True Name.

I say fortunately, because by the game rules, an Astral Quest to the Horror's metaplane is no different to a quest to any other metaplane. Of couse, this would be a rating 19-or-so quest, so it would still be very hard. You might want to consider throwing something like a wormskull against them if they're unlucky enough to hit a Place of Battle. While tough, they're still beatable, if memory serves (though I've never read the ED rules too closely).
Velocity
QUOTE (nick012000)
Also, it should gain a new Free Spirit Power every time it increases Force.

While I initially had a small heart attack upon reading that, I remembered the following rule and calmed down a bit:

"[The Free Spirit] may gain additional powers when it increases its Force. To determine such a gain, roll 2D6. If the result is greater than or equal to the spirit's new Force, it gains another power. The more powerful the spirit becomes, the more fixed its manifestation and the more difficult it is to gain new powers." (from Magic in the Shadows)

So while it may possibly gain new powers, it's unlikely. Still possible though, which does make for a tense situation once the PCs realize this: "Whatever you do, don't let it kill again! It'll only get stronger!" devil.gif

QUOTE (nick012000)
I have a feeling that Harlequin would get involved very, very quickly. Fortunately for the PCs, he has a job offer for them. An Astral Quest, to its home metaplane, to learn its True Name.

Oooh... okay, I'm so stealing this idea. smile.gif
hyzmarca
I sort of liked it better when it started at Force 18. Sure, it would slaughter the PCs, but it probably wouldn't try to stop them. After all, its host's extraction simply means that it'll get outside.
Velocity
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
I sort of liked it better when it started at Force 18. Sure, it would slaughter the PCs, but it probably wouldn't try to stop them. After all, its host's extraction simply means that it'll get outside.

Well, technically it'll still be a Force 18 eventually. Like regular nomads, it'll go through its regular life cycle, from Force 9 to Force 18 (as it murders), then splitting and returning to 9. The only difference is that I haven't 'locked' it at 18, meaning that if the PCs time it right, they can strike when it's in a slump and potentially disrupt it (temporarily, anyway).
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Velocity)
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
I sort of liked it better when it started at Force 18. Sure, it would slaughter the PCs, but it probably wouldn't try to stop them. After all, its host's extraction simply means that it'll get outside.

Well, technically it'll still be a Force 18 eventually. Like regular nomads, it'll go through its regular life cycle, from Force 9 to Force 18 (as it murders), then splitting and returning to 9. The only difference is that I haven't 'locked' it at 18, meaning that if the PCs time it right, they can strike when it's in a slump and potentially disrupt it (temporarily, anyway).

But will its babies be Free when it splits?
Velocity
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
QUOTE (Velocity)
Well, technically it'll still be a Force 18 eventually.  Like regular nomads, it'll go through its regular life cycle, from Force 9 to Force 18 (as it murders), then splitting and returning to 9.

But will its babies be Free when it splits?

Uuh... actually, I dunno. What do you think? That sounds metaplot-upsetting: it's got the potential to significantly affect the balance of power in the Sixth World. I'm not opposed to that, mind you... devil.gif
hyzmarca
[ Spoiler ]


Yeah, I think that'll make a suitably dreadfull villain that is dangerous but can still be defeated in its weakest moments.
Velocity
Uh... wow. Like, wow. That's fucking brilliant. notworthy.gif Seriously, that's awesome--what a great, great idea. Consider it 'stolen.' smile.gif

Queries:
  • Although it's implied, you never clarify the issue of control. Does the named nomad (we gotta come up with a proper name for it at some point) actually influence its servitors? Can it command them?
  • Although the ability to create other named nomads is cool, why would it do that? Is it compelled (by internal impulse) to reproduce itself? It would fit with the overall concept of the spirit.
  • If the named nomad is killed, do all servitors become 'regular' nomads?

Such an awesome idea... this will really help establish this creature as a unique and deadly threat.
Nkari
Hyzmarca, now that is a _really_ good idea.. =)

Name for the thing.. how about hyzmarca ? wink.gif biggrin.gif
hyzmarca
QUOTE (Velocity @ Oct 12 2005, 01:19 PM)
Uh... wow.  Like, wow.  That's fucking brilliant. notworthy.gif  Seriously, that's awesome--what a great, great idea.  Consider it 'stolen.' smile.gif

Queries:


  • Although it's implied, you never clarify the issue of control.  Does the named nomad (we gotta come up with a proper name for it at some point) actually influence its servitors?  Can it command them?

  • Although the ability to create other named nomads is cool, why would it do that?  Is it compelled (by internal impulse) to reproduce itself?  It would fit with the overall concept of the spirit.

  • If the named nomad is killed, do all servitors become 'regular' nomads?

Such an awesome idea... this will really help establish this creature as a unique and deadly threat.

I see the relationship as being like that of a magician and an Ally. The Servitors have their Nomad instincts and desires, but they are bound to obey the orders of their master no matter what. Some may resent the relationship. Others may have filial devotion to their creator. However, being Nomads they can't really come up with plans more complex than possess, kill, eat, kill, eat on their own. The Mind Link allows the Named to both recive information and issue commands from anywhere at an time. It can cooridinate its Servitors like a drone riger in captain's chair mode.

It would create other Nomads for the same reason as Magicians summon spirits, primarilary. They give it tactical and stratigi advantages. They allow it to enforce its will without a physical presence of its own, they can protect it if it is attacked, and they provide useful teleportation opportunities due to metaplanar travel. It can, for example, have one Servitor guard its Life Vessel with and, should he be attacked, have itself and its entire Nomad army there is a two complex actions no matter the distance.
The drive to reproduce may lead it to Name its most favored children.

I hadn't thought of that. I would assume yes. However, you could have them make willpower tests against a TN equal to their creator's Force when it died and let them gain 1 point of Spirit Energy for ever success with the higher force Servitors getting priority. 1 success would be all that was required to create either a Free Spirit that is gratefull for its freedom or one that possesses a hatred as hot as 1000 suns that can only be quenched by the flowing blood of the runners that murdered its parent.
But that is just a little cruel.
Slump
I'm not terribly familiar with how life vessels work (or magic in shadowrun, for that matter -- 3 rulesets are enough for me -- matrix, meatworld, cars -- I don't need a 4th).

Does the life vessel need to be near the Nomad? If it doesn't, wouldn't the nomad want the life vessel to be safely extracted? Depending on how things work, the Nomad could pretend to put up a fight, then 'realize it's hopeless,' and flee the body of it's own free will. The runners then extract the guy, who's unknowingly harboring the life of the nomad. The runners extract, and super-nomad is finally able to breach the astral barriers around the facility and get out into the world.

If that works (and there's no reason why a Named One couldn't have powers that work differently than normal, apparently), then you don't have to worry about the runners trying to expel a Force 18 nomad, nor having to defeat him (since he'll be fighting to lose, so he can get out into the world).

So the nomad fights to win, thinking the runners were sent to kill him, he finds out they were sent to extract the mage, and so plays decoy and *wham,* he gets to wreck havoc on all of aztalan, not just the undersea dome.
Velocity
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
I see the relationship as being like that of a magician and an Ally (...) it can cooridinate its Servitors like a drone riger in captain's chair mode.

Good, then we're on the same page--that's pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

QUOTE (hyzmarca)
It would create other Nomads for the same reason as Magicians summon spirits, primarilary (...) The drive to reproduce may lead it to Name its most favored children.

Again, we agree completely. smile.gif
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