Ok, I've just got back from a run that took a couple of sessions. Basically my character organised a run on a facility that was mining and processing oricalcum.
We'd subdued most of the place, and were breaking into the refining area, when a couple of choppers came in.
Another corp started attacking the place as well, starting by tearing down a couple of wards on the refining labs, and summoning spirits into them (from the astral) to tear up the mages that were working inside.
Now, as the choppers moved in, the rest of my team bugged out straight away, I moved in, bashed the doors off the labs, to see what I could grab before running.
I grabbed a tray of unrefined oricalcum, and then after I got a 27 on my perception test from magic sense (I'm an adept) my gm indicated a small safe in a cupboard that contained oricalcum. I tore it out of the wall and bolted.
Now it turns out, unbeknownst to the rest of us, our mage had had contact with this other group (wuxing), apparently he had the option of initiating with them and declined, so he knew the person 'running' the raid, and she agreed that if 'his team' didn't do anything hostile we wouldn't be harmed.
So I regrouped with the team, after carefully hiding the safe on my person (by small, think 30cm*10cm*15cm or so). The women we were talking to was an astral-manifesting mage, there was a chopper above us and another mage standing next to us, you get the idea. She said that 'her crews had found one of the safes was missing', etc etc.
Anyways, cut a long story short, the other mage used a Catalogue spell on me (which apparently is unresistable and you can't hide anything from it), found the safe, and the women offered me a choice. I can take the safe, with an unknown amount of oricalcum in it, or I can take the tray of unrefined stuff, which apparently has about 200-250k worth in it.
I'm rather annoyed at my GM for shafting us (an extra 10 minutes in-game time and we would have been away scott free with heaps of loot, but we were running out of time for the session, so he decided to 'speed up' everything), so I'm trying to come up with ways of on-the-spot figuring out how much oricalcum would be in the safe. Dont suppose anyone has any ideas?
Full Version: Need Help - Kinda Fast too
Option 3: Finders keepers. There's more than enough for Wuxing, we take what we have.
Anyway, joking aside, yes, I'd be pissed off at your DM too. But this is Shadowrun; take the tray and call it good. Odds are they want what's in the safe, want it bad enough to break their promise to a no-name Shadowrunner mage, gun you down, and take ALLLL your Orichilum.
Anyway, joking aside, yes, I'd be pissed off at your DM too. But this is Shadowrun; take the tray and call it good. Odds are they want what's in the safe, want it bad enough to break their promise to a no-name Shadowrunner mage, gun you down, and take ALLLL your Orichilum.
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) |
| Option 3: Finders keepers. There's more than enough for Wuxing, we take what we have. Anyway, joking aside, yes, I'd be pissed off at your DM too. But this is Shadowrun; take the tray and call it good. Odds are they want what's in the safe, want it bad enough to break their promise to a no-name Shadowrunner mage, gun you down, and take ALLLL your Orichilum. |
Our DM has said the reason he is doing this is, in case we use the same characters next year (this was the finale for the year), he doesn't want us overpowered by obtaining a brick of oricalcum.
Of course, I really dont think us being overpowered by cash is a big thing, since we've received 30 karma and
60k for the year (running almost every week).
Uhm, yeah. You need to smack your DM with the head, since ~52 sessions should generate a hell of a lot more karma and nuyen than that. Tell him to stop being such a stingy son of a bitch.
Those 60k Nuyen wouldn't be enough only for the lifestyle of my character. Even without taking ammunition, replacements of gear, sota, upkeep for connections and DocWagon contract into account. o_O
Well, it *has* been the uni year, so closer to 25-30 weeks than 52. But yeah, it hasn't been nearly enough cash for what my adept actually wants 
Tell your DM to stop being so stingy.
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) |
| Tell your DM to stop being so stingy. |
Tried that. He's telling me it's "perfectly acceptable to be getting about 7k per run, as per the rules in shadowrun companion".
If we've been getting 7k per run I really dont see how we've managed to only have about 8 runs through the year.....
To quote from ShadowDragons Sig:
| QUOTE |
| Runners are not going to work for less money than they could make by stealing a Ford Americar once every couple of weeks and having the group troll negotiate the sale to a chop shop. ~ mmu1 |
well... even I (being a newbie, and by most accounts craptacular GM) think the numbers in the SR comp are WOOOOOOOOOEEEFULLLY pathetic, what is it, like 20K for the TEAM to knock someone off? Hell, i think i'm paying my team 5K PER PERSON, just to go drag some guys rear end out of the Salish, who is..semi willing... if that guy is getting knocked off for 20K for the whole team... he;d better be nothing more than a street bum, or wage slave maybe.
Oh wait, my mistake, we've made *70k* for the year.
Oracle - yep, thats about right
Oracle - yep, thats about right
What you do there is you ambush and kill the mage, then gun your way out. What you have in your hands is easily worth the risk if you're only getting ~¥7k per job.
~J
~J
How'd she cast Catalog--a Physical spell, producing results in the physical world--as an astrally-projecting mage? Astral spells can't affect things that aren't dual-natured, and Catalog only counts physical objects. Unless she developed some sort of weird metamagic that lets her Materialize, there's no way she could have done it.
Also there's no way for projecting mages to summon spirits on-the-fly, as both are Exclusive actions. They must have just used elementals or Great Forms that were already on-call.
Also there's no way for projecting mages to summon spirits on-the-fly, as both are Exclusive actions. They must have just used elementals or Great Forms that were already on-call.
| QUOTE (Eyeless Blond) |
| How'd she cast Catalog--a Physical spell, producing results in the physical world--as an astrally-projecting mage? Astral spells can't affect things that aren't dual-natured, and Catalog only counts physical objects. Unless she developed some sort of weird metamagic that lets her Materialize, there's no way she could have done it. Also there's no way for projecting mages to summon spirits on-the-fly, as both are Exclusive actions. They must have just used elementals or Great Forms that were already on-call. |
Yeah, the did apparently use elementals that were already on-call.
It wasn't actually the astral mage that cast the spell, it was one of the other mages that had dropped out of the chopper and was physically there with us.
*sigh* I'm pretty sure that I'm making a mistake by posting here, but in my defence, I offer this summary.
Here's the list of runs that has occured for this group (and it is most definately not been in the 25-30 range). Apologies for the somewhat fragmented and arbitrary descriptions of list (of runs that this PC has participated in, on occasion other characters have been used, or he's been unavailable). I am convinced it is incomplete, since my GM's notes have unfortunately disappeared, but that's something to remedy in the morning. Apologies to all if my memory is somewhat incomplete.
Bombing the media star's vehicle
Recovering the thesis from the gangers
Escorting the Mafia assistant
Raiding the cargo ship
Escorting in Morion's scout
Grabbing the guy in the hospital
Planting cameras in the Sydney nightclub
Guarding an outback convoy
Also of relevance, is this team has a woeful habit of forgetting to negotiate for a better price. Corp rule of thumb, avoid spending nuyen where necessary, and this group has proven they're willing to work for the offered price. In each instance Mr/Mrs Johnson has been authorized to go up to 50% extra on the offered price, however since this group doesn't push for the extra money, then there's no need to offer it.
Additionally, expenses are relatively low, since there is little legwork associated with most runs, they often do not have to worry about bribes, favours and the like, keeping those costs down.
I don't admit to being a good GM. I'll admit to being a poor GM, who attempts to make the best game possible for the PCs. My knowledge of the rules is often lacking, and corrected upon by others more experienced in this game. Regardless, I attempt to keep the game enjoyable for all involved, and for the most part I believe I have succeeded.
However, please get back to your examination of my GMing method. I am keen to listen to constructive criticism, beyond 'You need to smack your DM with the head' which seems anatomically improbable.
Here's the list of runs that has occured for this group (and it is most definately not been in the 25-30 range). Apologies for the somewhat fragmented and arbitrary descriptions of list (of runs that this PC has participated in, on occasion other characters have been used, or he's been unavailable). I am convinced it is incomplete, since my GM's notes have unfortunately disappeared, but that's something to remedy in the morning. Apologies to all if my memory is somewhat incomplete.
Bombing the media star's vehicle
Recovering the thesis from the gangers
Escorting the Mafia assistant
Raiding the cargo ship
Escorting in Morion's scout
Grabbing the guy in the hospital
Planting cameras in the Sydney nightclub
Guarding an outback convoy
Also of relevance, is this team has a woeful habit of forgetting to negotiate for a better price. Corp rule of thumb, avoid spending nuyen where necessary, and this group has proven they're willing to work for the offered price. In each instance Mr/Mrs Johnson has been authorized to go up to 50% extra on the offered price, however since this group doesn't push for the extra money, then there's no need to offer it.
Additionally, expenses are relatively low, since there is little legwork associated with most runs, they often do not have to worry about bribes, favours and the like, keeping those costs down.
I don't admit to being a good GM. I'll admit to being a poor GM, who attempts to make the best game possible for the PCs. My knowledge of the rules is often lacking, and corrected upon by others more experienced in this game. Regardless, I attempt to keep the game enjoyable for all involved, and for the most part I believe I have succeeded.
However, please get back to your examination of my GMing method. I am keen to listen to constructive criticism, beyond 'You need to smack your DM with the head' which seems anatomically improbable.
Consider this: Is there a Face in the group? Is this Face able to negotiate the payment upwards and does the Johnson have corresponding high social skills? If the Mr J has high social skills, the group may be risking the payment being reduced. Some of the runs look like extremely high risk jobs - I would consider these to be "windfall" jobs if you are using SRComp rules and definately not on the normal job scale in SRComp. Remember that those prices are the baseline, the absolute minimum.
Remember one other thing. Pay your PCs more and the PCs will have less incentive to pick up as much "loot" as possible on runs. Pay them less and you reap what you sow.
Spoiler follows: GM keep out!
Remember one other thing. Pay your PCs more and the PCs will have less incentive to pick up as much "loot" as possible on runs. Pay them less and you reap what you sow.
Spoiler follows: GM keep out!
[ Spoiler ]
Keep in mind people play for fun. A sizable chunk of fun for many people is progression of their character. Typically 60k at street prices buys very little after, especially after SR3 expenses. Even light expenses for a number of runs. Take a look at those cyber/bio prices, or say a magic foci. Months of gaming resulting in little more than upkeep? Not much fun.
Especially if you dangle that safe.
Was the safe written in by someone else?
P.S. Was part of the deal with the Johnson that they got to keep whatever they looted? Wuxing is basically going back on their deal and mugging their own runners? Usually you don't want to screw a team you hire unless you intend to go all the way. 'Runners make bad enemies, that's why you hired them.
Especially if you dangle that safe.
Was the safe written in by someone else?P.S. Was part of the deal with the Johnson that they got to keep whatever they looted? Wuxing is basically going back on their deal and mugging their own runners?
Usually you don't want to screw a team you hire unless you intend to go all the way. 'Runners make bad enemies, that's why you hired them.
Wuxing never hired the runners for this gig, it was put together by Leviathan as an IC run. If I could find the spoiler function I would explain in detail Wuxing's interest in the facility, however suffice it to say they crashed the party.
There is a relatively charismatic face/mage character in the group, with a reasonably good negotiation skill that could perform such bartering. Keeping that in mind, the majority of Johnsons have been kept at around that level for negotiation. Loot also has been relatively available, in the form of helpful gadgetry (good decryption/encryption sets), useful guns (a good selection from CC in both armour/weapons/grenades). I've got no ultimate objective in denying them loot, in most instances they walk away after looting everything bar their organs.
Expenses wise, I believe they've been pretty low. I am not playing a paranoia game of Shadowrun, with multiple safe-houses, disposing of every weapon used and the like which would drive up expenses considerably. Most of the runs that have been performed can be done in a single evening (in game) IMHO justifying a reduction in overall money being spent. The truly hazardous ones, have been PC initiated, and garned a considerable quantity of loot or other good stuff.
There is a relatively charismatic face/mage character in the group, with a reasonably good negotiation skill that could perform such bartering. Keeping that in mind, the majority of Johnsons have been kept at around that level for negotiation. Loot also has been relatively available, in the form of helpful gadgetry (good decryption/encryption sets), useful guns (a good selection from CC in both armour/weapons/grenades). I've got no ultimate objective in denying them loot, in most instances they walk away after looting everything bar their organs.
Expenses wise, I believe they've been pretty low. I am not playing a paranoia game of Shadowrun, with multiple safe-houses, disposing of every weapon used and the like which would drive up expenses considerably. Most of the runs that have been performed can be done in a single evening (in game) IMHO justifying a reduction in overall money being spent. The truly hazardous ones, have been PC initiated, and garned a considerable quantity of loot or other good stuff.
| QUOTE (Altheas) |
| Also of relevance, is this team has a woeful habit of forgetting to negotiate for a better price. Corp rule of thumb, avoid spending nuyen where necessary, and this group has proven they're willing to work for the offered price. In each instance Mr/Mrs Johnson has been authorized to go up to 50% extra on the offered price, however since this group doesn't push for the extra money, then there's no need to offer it. Additionally, expenses are relatively low, since there is little legwork associated with most runs, they often do not have to worry about bribes, favours and the like, keeping those costs down. I don't admit to being a good GM. I'll admit to being a poor GM, who attempts to make the best game possible for the PCs. My knowledge of the rules is often lacking, and corrected upon by others more experienced in this game. Regardless, I attempt to keep the game enjoyable for all involved, and for the most part I believe I have succeeded. However, please get back to your examination of my GMing method. I am keen to listen to constructive criticism, beyond 'You need to smack your DM with the head' which seems anatomically improbable. |
Maybe we dont negotiate for a better price because of all the times you've drummed at us "You do anything to annoy the Johnson, you get booted and blacklisted, or just shot, you're competing against every other criminal in the city".
I'll disagree with that 'low expenses'. My character laid out as much in prep for this run as he did in the last half a year, and our heavy-weapons dude finds great dragon rounds and other such high-explosives rather on the ouch factor, money wise.
Also, in spite of how badly designed he was, I dont think our rigger is even making 50% of his living expenses and equipment upkeep, let along making a profit.
As to you being a bad GM, I'm going to disagree with that. As I've said before, runs and plot you do quite well, it's just that when it comes to cash, rewards and spending them, you *really* make things tough, such as by giving us 1/4 normal down-time, and unfortunately the McGuyver handbook on 'how to make the most of nothing' textbook was lost in the mail.
| QUOTE (Altheas) |
| Loot also has been relatively available, in the form of helpful gadgetry (good decryption/encryption sets), useful guns (a good selection from CC in both armour/weapons/grenades). I've got no ultimate objective in denying them loot, in most instances they walk away after looting everything bar their organs. |
The only times we manage a 'loot everything but the organs' is if the enemy carry nothing more than pistols, every time we've come up against anyone using decent weaponry we havn't been able to loot anything.
Also, even if we could loot a lot of stuff like guns, you get next to nothing for them (1/4 price?), and it kinda leaves the mage, the rigger and me rather high-and-dry.
My recomendation is WAR. Don't just double cross Wuxing, declare a guerilla war against them. Bomb Wuxing buildings. Kidnap Wuxing employees. Rape their spouses while they watch. Sell their children to ghouls. Cobble together some nukes or have you decker steal some Thor Shots and take out Wuxing's largest and most important assets.
And remember, targeting the Thor Shot on your location is a decent way to take opposing armies down with you
And remember, targeting the Thor Shot on your location is a decent way to take opposing armies down with you
| QUOTE (Altheas) |
| If I could find the spoiler function I would explain in detail Wuxing's interest in the facility |
To use spoilers just start it with [ spoiler] and end it with [ /spoiler], just without the spaces.
As far as the pay goes, I don't see it as being bad for the first run or two, but the pay should be getting progressively higher with each run. By this point the runners really should be making more money for each run.
Also, from the sound of it these runs are often taking multiple sessions to complete. I tend to think of the prices quoted in SRComp (low as they are) involve simple runs that would take only a few hours to GM. The more complicated the run (i.e. longer it takes to GM) the more the runners should be getting paid.
i think i see one of the major problems, and it's something i deal with in a similar way. I'm going to guess altheas, is, like me, trying to convert from D20/dnd, into SR, where the primary method of monetary gain, is looting (generally in the form of finding what you want/need). In SR, imo, that shouldnt work, and that most of their reward SHOULD come as payment from the johnson, and whatever tidbits they pick up is extra, not vice versa. As for the johnson's.. I prefer to think not in terms of "how low can i go..", but rather "what is this worth to my corp/cause.." and i find that more often than not, i have a lot less of a percentage increase that they'd negotiate for (as in, a base rate of 50K for 5 runners... is it REALLY worth 75K for this scientist?) My johnsons take the low road in upfront payment, however, and generally won't even offer it, but would (begrudgingly) give up about 50% of the intital pay, if the runners ask. That is one thing i think the corps would worry about... you pay the runners in advance, and they die, you're screwed, and you have to pay another group.
for me, the biggest problem is not turning everything into a dungeon crawl/monster hunt, i really need to imrpove on running legwork...
for me, the biggest problem is not turning everything into a dungeon crawl/monster hunt, i really need to imrpove on running legwork...
Ahhhhh.... Dunjon Rex Stingus. A problem I am quite familar with.
Let's look at your list of runs.
Let's look at your list of runs.
| QUOTE |
| Bombing the media star's vehicle |
Ultrahighprofile target, very high risk job. Nothing short of a quarter of a million
would have been an acceptable price for this.| QUOTE |
| Recovering the thesis from the gangers |
Low-key to medium key, depending on what kind of gangers, and whose thesis was stolen. If we're talking some rich guy's doctoral paper has been stolen, I odn't think 6K to get it back would be out of line.
| QUOTE |
| Escorting the Mafia assistant |
The mob has cash, and La Famillia has long been appreciative of the fact that money in the right amount buys loyalty. I'd say about 25K for this job if it's bodyguarding; if they're providing security for a meet or a shipment, 10% of the total gain from the meet.
| QUOTE |
| Raiding the cargo ship |
Piracy is still a felony. They should be paid at least 35K, much, more if the job is happening in someone's territorial waters, and get to keep 15% of the haul.
| QUOTE |
| Escorting in Morion's scout |
I don't know who Morion is, so I can't comment.
| QUOTE |
| Grabbing the guy in the hospital |
Are we talking "Seattle General", or "South Street Clinic", or "Northwest District DocWagon Facillity" here?
Prices for each:
1: 25000
2: 1000
3: 60000
| QUOTE |
| Planting cameras in the Sydney nightclub |
Probably not an easy job if this nightclub has any good security. 15-20K.
| QUOTE |
| Guarding an outback convoy |
A convoy across the Australian outback? Ouch. 50K.
| QUOTE |
| Also of relevance, is this team has a woeful habit of forgetting to negotiate for a better price. |
- Because they seem to be under the impression that if they do so, you'll make 'em sleep with the fishes. This is similar to a case of "My players won't trust any of my NPCs and now I can't get them to do anything!" "Because every other NPC has betrayed them."
| QUOTE |
| Corp rule of thumb, avoid spending nuyen where necessary, and this group has proven they're willing to work for the offered price. In each instance Mr/Mrs Johnson has been authorized to go up to 50% extra on the offered price, however since this group doesn't push for the extra money, then there's no need to offer it. |
This is true enough. However, the problem is still your fault, for leading them to believe that haggling would get them shot.
| QUOTE |
| Additionally, expenses are relatively low, since there is little legwork associated with most runs, they often do not have to worry about bribes, favours and the like, keeping those costs down. |
Actually, most of those sound like very high legwork Runs.
| QUOTE |
| Bombing the media star's vehicle |
You'll need to investigate the security around the vehicle - is it his own corp's garages, or do they park in garage-for-hires? You'll need to pay someone to tell you about the star's habits, etcetera. You'll definately have to pay someone to help chum the waters and keep you away from the Star. Murdering high-profile targets is a Bad Idea.
| QUOTE |
| Recovering the thesis from the gangers |
A simple bribe might be enough to get the Thesis back. Else, they'd have to pay the gang's rivals to tell them about them.
| QUOTE |
| Escorting the Mafia assistant |
They're probably going to have to do legwork on who, exactly, they're protecting him from.
| QUOTE |
| Raiding the cargo ship |
Ahhh, nothing like a little spur-of-the-moment piracy.
| QUOTE |
| Escorting in Morion's scout |
Again, no comment.
| QUOTE |
| Grabbing the guy in the hospital |
Tell me you're kidding, right? One does not simply bust into a hospital and perform a grab. There's nurses, security employees, janitors, etcetera, to grease, so you can get in and out undetected. You have to pay someone to get you plans of the building.
| QUOTE |
| Planting cameras in the Sydney nightclub |
You'd need to bribe a lotta people. The security officers at the club, someone to get you the plans...
| QUOTE |
| Guarding an outback convoy |
There's still legwork, even if it's not likely to be expensive. You'll need to investigate what kind of threats to face. If they want you to protect them from astral threats and dual-natured paracritters, and you show up up geared up to do mortal kombat with bandits...
| QUOTE |
| I don't admit to being a good GM. I'll admit to being a poor GM, who attempts to make the best game possible for the PCs. My knowledge of the rules is often lacking, and corrected upon by others more experienced in this game. Regardless, I attempt to keep the game enjoyable for all involved, and for the most part I believe I have succeeded. |
When you have succeeded, your players do not feel the need to appeal to a court of opinion for advice on what to do. I shall give you directly the advice I gave your player to give you.
Stop being so damned stingy.
Runners need lots of money. Otherwise, they should just start hijacking Ford Americars and having the face who has thus far been afraid to use his negotiation get good prices from them.
| QUOTE |
| However, please get back to your examination of my GMing method. I am keen to listen to constructive criticism, beyond 'You need to smack your DM with the head' which seems anatomically improbable. |
Smack? No. I advocate shooting problem DMs in the head. Usually with a hammer. You don't quite need a hammergunning. Yet. You seem to want to do right, but you're going about it all wrong.
In this example, for example. They were lead to believe that if they hit the faccility and Wuxing hit at the same time, there would be a mutual "finders keepers" pact of nonagression towards each other. Now, Wuxing is reneging on the deal, essentially mugging the runners, who include friends.
Wuxing is a triple-A megacorp invested in magical research. Orichilum is awesome for them, but surely they're not so strapped for it that they have to resort to mugging their friends, who had their tacit permission to carry off what they could.
That's bad blood, all around. Don't betray a Shadowrunner, unless you intend to see him or her dead, and all of his or her friends, relations, fixers, Johnsons, and anyone who would have a vested interest in getting you back for splatting them.
Plus, this isen't like the Runners had a GMC banshee and were bulldozing tons of the stuff into their ride. They've got one 250K
tray, and what is one of many minisafes. There's no reason to be greedy and begrudge them that much, especially given how you've been stiffing them the whole game.You say you're not running a paranoia game, but your players say differently. The Face is afraid to haggle with Mr. Johnson, because of what you told him/her. This is your problem, and now your player's fun is being rained upon because of it. Fix it.
| QUOTE (Simpsons (1F02) - Homer Goes to College) |
Burns: Now, you can either have the washer and dryer where the lovely Smithers is standing, or you can trade it all in for what's in this box... Inspector: The box! The box! |
Seriously though, if you're concerned and/or if your GM has a track record of skimpy payoffs, then take the 250K. If you take "the box", there's no telling how little oricalcum will end up in there when you guys resume. For that matter, how do you know there is *any* oricalcum in there at all?
Also, the fact that a mage actually had "Catalogue" learned (unless she was a bookkeeper with little to no contact with the Shadowrun world) makes me raise my eyebrows; if there's a more obscure and single-purpose spell out there, I don't know it, considering that learning spells isn't a trivial or free process to pull of.
| QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685) | ||||
| Ahhhhh.... Dunjon Rex Stingus. A problem I am quite familar with. Let's look at your list of runs.
Ultrahighprofile target, very high risk job. Nothing short of a quarter of a million would have been an acceptable price for this.
Low-key to medium key, depending on what kind of gangers, and whose thesis was stolen. If we're talking some rich guy's doctoral paper has been stolen, I odn't think 6K to get it back would be out of line. |
When I think of a thesis in SR I don't think of a rich guy's doctoral paper. After all, he is likely to have several copies and it is useless to s bunch of gangers unless they happen to be a gang of graduate students.
Usually, i think of the other type of Thesis; the one that acts as a permenant ritual link and whose destruction will cause the creeator to instantly lose a point of magic.
About the catalog spell, it is quite useless in a combat situation, especially if the caster gets too many successes. Remember, the subject of the spell forgets everything cataloged once the spell ends and only have the list made while under the influance to look back to. With many successes, these lists can become quite detailed, potentially taking several hours to compile. Nothing is quite as fun as getting enough successes to include the exact position and vector of every atom of air in the 3d space that the subject is cataloging.
However, I must disagree with the assessment that cataligye is obscure and useless to a normal mage. It's one of my favorite spells. Granted, it wasn't quite used right above (The mage would have had to write shit down first). But an accurate and complete assessment of the contents of a room? Priceless. Especially if the mage doesn't wirte it down, but dumps it to file via DNI. Cast spell, write file at speed of thought, drop spell, use search function to see if what you want is there. Quickest way to search an area EVAR.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| When I think of a thesis in SR I don't think of a rich guy's doctoral paper. After all, he is likely to have several copies and it is useless to s bunch of gangers unless they happen to be a gang of graduate students. Usually, i think of the other type of Thesis; the one that acts as a permenant ritual link and whose destruction will cause the creeator to instantly lose a point of magic. |
If that's the case, then a retrieval would be worth a hell of a lot more than 6K-8K. Granted, the level of opposition isn't all that hot (assuming just a street gang w/o Mafia connections, which is an iffy assumption at best), but the target is one of the most important and delicate objects one is likely to find in the Shadows. If I were an initiated mage and I lost mine, I would shell out 6-digits to hire the very best I could afford to get it back intact and ensure that no other copies were made, the latter being crucial if you don't want some ritual spell cast on you one night.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| About the catalog spell, it is quite useless in a combat situation, especially if the caster gets too many successes. Remember, the subject of the spell forgets everything cataloged once the spell ends and only have the list made while under the influance to look back to. With many successes, these lists can become quite detailed, potentially taking several hours to compile. Nothing is quite as fun as getting enough successes to include the exact position and vector of every atom of air in the 3d space that the subject is cataloging. |
I don't have MitS in front of me, but the point I was saying was that if you polled 100 mages out there, I would be surprised if more than 1 had that spell, so it's kind of "convenient" that the NPC mage had it. Some spells are so common, every 12 year old has it (ie, Mana/Stun Bolt, Heal). Others are relatively common (ie, Levitate, Invisibility), while others are not as common, but often useful for specialists (ie, Mind Probe, Control Thoughts, Shape Change). Finally, you have those bottom dwelling ones that almost no one takes (ie, Increased Reaction +1d6, Clout). Catalogue, in my mind, falls in that last group. Why any PC would ever bother learning it (and spending the non-trivial Karma and time doing so), I can't fathom.
| QUOTE (Altheas @ Oct 31 2005, 11:21 AM) |
| I've got no ultimate objective in denying them loot, in most instances they walk away after looting everything bar their organs. |
Why do they leave the organs behind? That's throwing away good money.
| QUOTE |
| if they're providing security for a meet or a shipment, 10% of the total gain from the meet. |
*Splutter*
I think not. The pay will be proportional to the importance of the meet, but unless this is a very small meet (which raises the question of why the guards) 10% is way, way too much.
| QUOTE |
| get to keep 15% of the haul. |
For contract assets? No way in hell. Percentage takes are for regulars, probably only company men.
| QUOTE |
| A convoy across the Australian outback? Ouch. 50K. |
How far across? That's missing at least one zero, possibly more. Mana storms are not nice.
| QUOTE |
| Also, the fact that a mage actually had "Catalogue" learned (unless she was a bookkeeper with little to no contact with the Shadowrun world) makes me raise my eyebrows; if there's a more obscure and single-purpose spell out there, I don't know it, considering that learning spells isn't a trivial or free process to pull of. |
I disagree. Having had players with Catalogue in my game, I can state that the spell is probably over the line of being broken—it's way too useful for what it costs. I'd be surprised to find more than a handful of Shadowmages without it.
| QUOTE |
| ensure that no other copies were made |
No need. This isn't a case where you can make a few photocopies and get a few ritual links. The copy that the mage creates is, for some reason, special.
~J
| QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) |
| However, I must disagree with the assessment that cataligye is obscure and useless to a normal mage. It's one of my favorite spells. Granted, it wasn't quite used right above (The mage would have had to write shit down first). But an accurate and complete assessment of the contents of a room? Priceless. Especially if the mage doesn't wirte it down, but dumps it to file via DNI. Cast spell, write file at speed of thought, drop spell, use search function to see if what you want is there. Quickest way to search an area EVAR. |
Sorry, what's DNI?
I'm not saying the spell is "useless" in terms that it doesn't do anything. Obviously it does. But in most campaigns I've seen, mages are limited in Karma (it's the most important part of their growth) and time isn't trivial either (Our group is constantly struggling finding time to learn new skills, stats, etc). If you had to choose Catalogue or Mana Bolt (and no, you don't have the time/karma for both), then which would most PC mages choose? How about Catalogue vs Levitate? Which would be more useful in more circumstances that Runners encounter? How about Catalogue vs Armor? Physical Barrier? Heal?
| QUOTE (LinaInverse @ Oct 31 2005, 02:04 PM) |
| If you had to choose Catalogue or Mana Bolt (and no, you don't have the time/karma for both), then which would most PC mages choose? How about Catalogue vs Levitate? Which would be more useful in more circumstances that Runners encounter? How about Catalogue vs Armor? Physical Barrier? Heal? |
Between a Force 1 Catalogue and a Force 1 Manabolt, Catalogue. Between a Force 5 Catalogue and a Force 5 Manabolt, a Force 1 Catalogue and a Force 5 fetish-linked Manabolt.
Yeah, you can say "Force 6 Manabolt vs Force 6 Catalogue and you can't take any other option even if it costs the same karma and takes less time", but it's a ridiculous argument.
~J
DNI is direct Neural link, in terms of cyber/computers. Acheivable thorugh a trodeset if you aren't willing to lose any magic for the datajack. (In SR3, I never made a mage who didn't drop a point for the functionality of a little cyber. But then again, I could Geas. In SR4, well, Now trodes work as well so there is little need.)
Useless in most situations a runner would encounter? How about " Break into Corp A, find item B, return to Jouhson C?" How about searching a dude for contraband? How about scanning the breifcase with your payment to make sure you don't get a result of 'Bomb" or "RFID tag"? What happens if you see a little girl in a room, but when you catalogue for contents little girl doesn't show up but "Honkin big toxic spirit" does? At the very least, you can use it to know what to steal out of the armory.
And if you play a pirate campaign, dear lord, the usefulness. I'd never take it over stunbolt, but I'd take it over levitate any day.
Useless in most situations a runner would encounter? How about " Break into Corp A, find item B, return to Jouhson C?" How about searching a dude for contraband? How about scanning the breifcase with your payment to make sure you don't get a result of 'Bomb" or "RFID tag"? What happens if you see a little girl in a room, but when you catalogue for contents little girl doesn't show up but "Honkin big toxic spirit" does? At the very least, you can use it to know what to steal out of the armory.
And if you play a pirate campaign, dear lord, the usefulness. I'd never take it over stunbolt, but I'd take it over levitate any day.
| QUOTE (LinaInverse @ Oct 31 2005, 12:21 PM) |
| Also, the fact that a mage actually had "Catalogue" learned (unless she was a bookkeeper with little to no contact with the Shadowrun world) makes me raise my eyebrows; if there's a more obscure and single-purpose spell out there, I don't know it, considering that learning spells isn't a trivial or free process to pull of. |
One of my MW Adepts had it EDIT: at low Force, it's one of those great little utility spells. I found it an extremely useful spell, especially the lack of resistance test....which incidentally i personally consider absolute BS. Especially when it is something in someone's possesion and there is Spell Defense allocated on that person. I absolutely detest the RAW that Spell Defense cannot be declared to be used to protect an area or declared to counter whatever a specificied mage attempts to cast.
Anyway, getting back to the situation. So Wuxing happened to be watching the facility and saw the team without being seen themselves? Then they raided the lab right after? Then intercepted the team? So now they are trying to mug the team because they were the late bird? Am i missing something, or have something wrong?
In that senario if i was in the teams position i'd likely have the face step up and say something like: "Safe? Sure, we have a safe....for sale. If you want the tray that's for sale too." Since they are willing to "trade"
it for 200K+ of oricalcum it should be worth at least that much to them. Likely more if they were sending in their own team, and that team risked a breakin on the heels of someone else that might have sensitized security, and then had the nads to try mug the team. But no need to get too greedy, settle for something in the lower 6-digit range.Why? Because i have possesion, and they are running adhoc themselves so they shouldn't have a preset plan tailored for the team for this senario. Right?
I'd be willing to bet they'd rather not risk a messy, dangerous firefight when they can make a clean buy of what they came for w/cash. I win (1/2 my haul is already fenced), Wuxing wins (they get what they came for), everyone goes home alive with something.As for OOC, well since there was been an extra 50% on the table all the time this isn't terribly out of line with that. How many team members? Split 4 ways 200k wolud be 50k each, that's only 70% extra instead of 50%. [edit]Factoring in the extra 50K for the oricalum tray[/edit] they'd end up not even 10% more than what you had planned to give them at max.
My advice Altheas, and it of course is only that, if there really was that money on the table before don't dick around on the small stuff. Cut them some slack when they showed the initiative to go out and get some cash. SR3 pricing is a horrid cash sinkhole, and those SRComp guidelines tend to create cash starved games when runs are taking multiple sessions. For example with the entire haul of maybe 150k per runner the Adept would be hard pressed to buy a Force 1 kitchen knife Weapon Focus on the street.
About the Thesis: I know little of the magic of the shadows. In that case, revise my estimate upwards. By attaching at least one zero to it. As well as the convoy across the outback.
I'd take Levitate over Stunbolt any day, personally.
That said, your last use doesn't work—Catalogue, per the description, won't name anything you wouldn't recognize on sight. A strict canon approach (*waves at Toturi*) might result in the little girl showing up as "Unknown", but my personal approach (and that of most GMs) would be to list anything as what the mage would list it as were said mage looking at it.
~J
That said, your last use doesn't work—Catalogue, per the description, won't name anything you wouldn't recognize on sight. A strict canon approach (*waves at Toturi*) might result in the little girl showing up as "Unknown", but my personal approach (and that of most GMs) would be to list anything as what the mage would list it as were said mage looking at it.
~J
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Between a Force 1 Catalogue and a Force 1 Manabolt, Catalogue. Between a Force 5 Catalogue and a Force 5 Manabolt, a Force 1 Catalogue and a Force 5 fetish-linked Manabolt. Yeah, you can say "Force 6 Manabolt vs Force 6 Catalogue and you can't take any other option even if it costs the same karma and takes less time", but it's a ridiculous argument. ~J |
Not a bad argument, OK. But 1) I have a personal bias against fetishes, especially for core-critical spells like Mana Bolt. The last thing I need is to find myself fetish-less in a critical juncture, and 2) the campaign I'm in has a house rule that requires a minimum of 1 Karma for any spell, regardless of fetish or exclusivity. If it weren't for that, then I would consider Catalogue 1 Fetish-Link and Mana Bolt 6 (no fetish).
Platonic; also not bad. OK, there are a few uses I hadn't considered. I for one (another personal bias) have never cybered my mages, but that's just me. Some of those tasks you describe (searching person for contraband) can be done mundanely just fine though, assuming you're with a group of runners that don't worry about doing rough thorough pat-downs. In our campaign, we recently had to deal with a "briefcase" exactly as you describe. We didn't find any bomb or RFID, but honestly we didn't bother searching for them either and just put it straight into a blast-proof, Faraday-cage, whether it had one or not. And the "little girl" can be found via Assensing (and if a Great Form Toxic is powerful enough to overwhelm your initiate mage's counter-Masking roll by pure Force, then chances are your group won't be living long enough to bother Cataloguing it).
For myself, I have a list 2 pages long of spells I want that I am scrambling to get Karma and time to learn. Catalogue, if it ever shows, falls way down near the bottom of that list, at least for the campaign circumstances that my character faces.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) | ||
No need. This isn't a case where you can make a few photocopies and get a few ritual links. The copy that the mage creates is, for some reason, special. ~J |
Are you sure? I don't have MitS in front of me, but I seem to recall that a mage has the option to creating more than 1 copy of a thesis. It's stated that multiple copies allow a little safety to prevent magic loss (as long as 1 copy exists), but specify that more copies means more risk that one gets snatched and used against you. I don't remember it explicitly saying that someone else couldn't make a copy and use it.
| QUOTE (LinaInverse @ Oct 31 2005, 04:37 PM) | ||||
Are you sure? I don't have MitS in front of me, but I seem to recall that a mage has the option to creating more than 1 copy of a thesis. It's stated that multiple copies allow a little safety to prevent magic loss (as long as 1 copy exists), but specify that more copies means more risk that one gets snatched and used against you. I don't remember it explicitly saying that someone else couldn't make a copy and use it. |
As it turns out, I'm at least half-wrong. The magician indeed does have the option to make multiple copies. It is not explicitly stated whether or not others may make copies, though I suppose it is implied.
This raises the question of what is considered a copy—if my magical thesis is a sand-painting, how do you copy it? An identical sand-painting? A picture? If it needs to be an identical painting, would a photocopy of a written thesis thus be invalid?
One possible way of dealing with this is to allow the player to choose. It's self-regulating—consider a sand painting that must be reproduced identically. It's nearly immobile and essentially uncopiable—and thus prevents the creator from moving it quickly or having alternates in case of catastrophe. On the other hand, if another player's thesis is decided to be simply the text itself as committed to paper, with no particular other specifications, they can roll off copies all day long—but so can anyone else who gets ahold of it.
~J
| QUOTE (LinaInverse @ Oct 31 2005, 04:37 PM) | ||||
Are you sure? I don't have MitS in front of me, but I seem to recall that a mage has the option to creating more than 1 copy of a thesis. It's stated that multiple copies allow a little safety to prevent magic loss (as long as 1 copy exists), but specify that more copies means more risk that one gets snatched and used against you. I don't remember it explicitly saying that someone else couldn't make a copy and use it. |
I would say that only the magician can make a copy of a thesis. The thesis is magically bound to the magician with karma (spent during initiation). Others wouldn't be able to make a copy of the thesis in the same way that others can't bond foci or take gesa for someone else.
The question is wether the single karma expinditure applies to all future copies or if the magician can only make extra copies during initiation. I would say the former, simply because it is easier that way.
As for exactness, I don't believe that perfect replication is necessary so much as it is necessary that the thesis be coppied by the magician's own hand. The act of creating the thesis matters more than the specific contents and, in the case of hand copies slight deviations only serve to make each copy special in its own way. The emotional and intellectial content would matter more than specifics, anyway. So a sand painting could be copied on canvas using watercolors.
As for the little girl example, the people who read the list might notice something is strange when she doesn't have any internal organs, assuming that the caster has enough successes to get that level of deatail.
If catalog can list the contents of a box then it should likewise list the contents of a metahuman.
1 cardboard box containing 5 shiny papers clips and 8 cigar ashes.
1 drawf "Bob" with two green eyes and 22,345 red hairs containing a 1/3 of a slice of pizza and 1/5 of a slice of pizza - toppings unknown.
Searching for contrababnd with catalogue has teh great advantage over a physical search. For one, it takes less time. Two, you don't have to touch the person. They don't even have to know. Three, no matter the concealability of whatever they have, it catches it.
I'm sure you have spells that you prefer. We all have our own styles. I like having lots of utility spells and few obvious ones. Others might like having all the bright and flashy spells or a combat spell for every occasion. Just don't knock catalogue. It's awesomeness knows no bounds.
I'm sure you have spells that you prefer. We all have our own styles. I like having lots of utility spells and few obvious ones. Others might like having all the bright and flashy spells or a combat spell for every occasion. Just don't knock catalogue. It's awesomeness knows no bounds.
As one of Kagetenshi's players who abus .... uses catalogue regularly I feel comforatable saying that its massively useful. The most used Single point of karma on that character.
Leviathan, given that the tray is worth a solid 250 K and you're apparently outgunned at the moment, I would just make off with that. Don't know how many are on your team right now but that's much better than standard pay.
Altheas, speaking from experience: giving players money isn't game breaking, its fun. SR Comp is horribly underpriced and characters get sick of 5 K runs pretty quickly. I'd shy away from dropping high force stacked foci on the characters every other encounter, but -- unless I'm horribly mistaken -- shelling out a little more cash won't hurt things.
Leviathan, given that the tray is worth a solid 250 K and you're apparently outgunned at the moment, I would just make off with that. Don't know how many are on your team right now but that's much better than standard pay.
Altheas, speaking from experience: giving players money isn't game breaking, its fun. SR Comp is horribly underpriced and characters get sick of 5 K runs pretty quickly. I'd shy away from dropping high force stacked foci on the characters every other encounter, but -- unless I'm horribly mistaken -- shelling out a little more cash won't hurt things.
I agree with those saying the gm is screwing the players, and being too tight with money.
the best way to look at it, may be to think of it as a crime movie, like Oceans 11. they get an idea for a BIG payoff, and make it work. Having somebody else pop up to steal your spotlight by GM fiat is just wrong.
If i were in a game like that, i suspect i would focus less on runs, and more on B&E to steal thing i can sell to a fence contact. and possibly slap the GM upside the head.
the real problem with not giving the PCs enough money, is then you dont have the option of having runs that dont pay, but focus on 'doing the right thing'.
the best way to look at it, may be to think of it as a crime movie, like Oceans 11. they get an idea for a BIG payoff, and make it work. Having somebody else pop up to steal your spotlight by GM fiat is just wrong.
If i were in a game like that, i suspect i would focus less on runs, and more on B&E to steal thing i can sell to a fence contact. and possibly slap the GM upside the head.
the real problem with not giving the PCs enough money, is then you dont have the option of having runs that dont pay, but focus on 'doing the right thing'.
I have to chime in on the Catalog spell as well. It, along with other decent 'Force 1 spells' like Makeover, Oxygenate, Physical Camouflage, Trid Entertainment, and Healthy Glow are all extremely useful, and normally find a place in my (SR3) casters' spell lists. All 6 can be learned quite easily, and only cost 6 Karma in total.
Others like Fashion and Fix are also almost always present, albeit at a higher Force.
Others like Fashion and Fix are also almost always present, albeit at a higher Force.
I had a massive problem with looting in earlier games, which I also attribute to too much fantasy-type games ("I loot the bodies" "you find a dagger and ten silver pieces" is a tough mentality to break).
I actually found that it was often a function of how attached players were to the characters. Whilst this sounds weird, I found that when a player had put hours of effort into a background and was really happy with a character, they tended to play that character as being stylish within their own definition. This often led to me being able to indicate looting was not on by simply having NPCs watch the player rifle through a security-guard's underwear for loose change with a subtly raised eyebrow and a mild sneer of contempt.
Where the character was really a "look, I can get 20+3D6 initiative as a starting character" or "I can roll fifteen dice for damage resistance without pool" type of character concept, they would loot because, basically it made economic sense.
However, looting is what happens if you pay characters too little. I find a good benchmark is 10K per runner per run. It goes up as the threat rises, or as the player's rep increases, or as the length of run increases. It goes down if it's a dodgy little run.
I think you're being harsh on Karma too. I generally award 7 or 8 karma per character per run, but I am over-generous with karma and place a lot of demands on the players in terms of developing skills. Be especially careful with being stingy on Karma, because that leads both to the Dark Side, and also to players running cardboard cut out characters, which is almost as bad as the Dark Side. If a player doesn't have any incentive not to change characters whenever the mood takes him, then you will get a lot of characters with a high turnover rate, who are transperently flimsy attempts at characterisation. Might as well go and play a computer game.
I actually found that it was often a function of how attached players were to the characters. Whilst this sounds weird, I found that when a player had put hours of effort into a background and was really happy with a character, they tended to play that character as being stylish within their own definition. This often led to me being able to indicate looting was not on by simply having NPCs watch the player rifle through a security-guard's underwear for loose change with a subtly raised eyebrow and a mild sneer of contempt.
Where the character was really a "look, I can get 20+3D6 initiative as a starting character" or "I can roll fifteen dice for damage resistance without pool" type of character concept, they would loot because, basically it made economic sense.
However, looting is what happens if you pay characters too little. I find a good benchmark is 10K per runner per run. It goes up as the threat rises, or as the player's rep increases, or as the length of run increases. It goes down if it's a dodgy little run.
I think you're being harsh on Karma too. I generally award 7 or 8 karma per character per run, but I am over-generous with karma and place a lot of demands on the players in terms of developing skills. Be especially careful with being stingy on Karma, because that leads both to the Dark Side, and also to players running cardboard cut out characters, which is almost as bad as the Dark Side. If a player doesn't have any incentive not to change characters whenever the mood takes him, then you will get a lot of characters with a high turnover rate, who are transperently flimsy attempts at characterisation. Might as well go and play a computer game.
Nah, better to make the 1,000,000 Y man who spent almost all his money on gear the other pcs will find useful, get yourself a nice terminal illness and then decrale the rest of the characters your bosom buddies and next of kin.
"So cancer man, why do you have a truck full of guns, un-implanted cyberware, and unbound foci?"
Cancer man: <wheeze> "My long lost relatives. I leave every thing to you." <dies>
The runnders should be making enough to get a high lifestyle, plus costs to cover any expendable gear, plus put away money for retirement and/or upgrades. This means a minimum of maybe 25K a month while running the shadows. If the runs don't offer enough money, go back to stealing cars.
"So cancer man, why do you have a truck full of guns, un-implanted cyberware, and unbound foci?"
Cancer man: <wheeze> "My long lost relatives. I leave every thing to you." <dies>
The runnders should be making enough to get a high lifestyle, plus costs to cover any expendable gear, plus put away money for retirement and/or upgrades. This means a minimum of maybe 25K a month while running the shadows. If the runs don't offer enough money, go back to stealing cars.
| QUOTE (Teulisch) |
| the best way to look at it, may be to think of it as a crime movie, like Oceans 11. they get an idea for a BIG payoff, and make it work. Having somebody else pop up to steal your spotlight by GM fiat is just wrong. |
I take it you only saw the remake? In the original Oceans 11 (IMHO the better movie) somebody else did pop up to try and take the money, and in the end nobody got the money.
| QUOTE (Enigma) |
| This often led to me being able to indicate looting was not on by simply having NPCs watch the player rifle through a security-guard's underwear for loose change with a subtly raised eyebrow and a mild sneer of contempt. |
They should get a sneer right back. Every nuyen that does not go into your pocket is one less nuyen you have to retire or keep you alive. Not looting when there is no disadvantage is unprofessional.
Worse than that, as I've pointed out previously, if you don't loot it shows something extremely dangerous about you—it shows that you aren't in this for the money. If you've got another agenda, and I don't know what it is, I'm going to be very careful about you—there are few better ways to be put on someone's hit list.
~J
Well, I do have one resource left open to me..
"Now then, how much is say, this mage next to me, and that chopper behind me, and those guards, worth to you? More than this little box methinks"
*Remove coat*
"Now, as you can see I'm carrying 7kilos of plastic explosives, all wired to this remote detonator..."
"Now then, how much is say, this mage next to me, and that chopper behind me, and those guards, worth to you? More than this little box methinks"
*Remove coat*
"Now, as you can see I'm carrying 7kilos of plastic explosives, all wired to this remote detonator..."
Okay, hopefully this spoiler function works. This whole post is verbose, but bear with me.
Leviathans (and other rare sea creatures) stay out.
Up until this run, which has involved several previous stages involving solely Leviathan, each run has taken four hours or so. They have been given a fair amount of legwork already done for them. (location of the target, approximate security and the like as relevant) In short, the need for legwork has been kept to a minimum due to the time constraints surrounding the game. The threat associated with these runs has also been considerably reduced, with in most instances all the injuries being inflicted upon their opposition.
I have tried to drum into them 'be professional'. I am confused to hear that doing so doesn't mean attempt to get the best price possible. If this impression has been given, I'm incredibly confused as to how it occured, since this is the first that this belief has been brought to my attention. Pay, or a portion of has not been asked for up front, even through several of the PCs, including the face/mage have played Shadowrun for far longer than me.
Leviathans (and other rare sea creatures) stay out.
[ Spoiler ]
Up until this run, which has involved several previous stages involving solely Leviathan, each run has taken four hours or so. They have been given a fair amount of legwork already done for them. (location of the target, approximate security and the like as relevant) In short, the need for legwork has been kept to a minimum due to the time constraints surrounding the game. The threat associated with these runs has also been considerably reduced, with in most instances all the injuries being inflicted upon their opposition.
I have tried to drum into them 'be professional'. I am confused to hear that doing so doesn't mean attempt to get the best price possible. If this impression has been given, I'm incredibly confused as to how it occured, since this is the first that this belief has been brought to my attention. Pay, or a portion of has not been asked for up front, even through several of the PCs, including the face/mage have played Shadowrun for far longer than me.
| QUOTE |
| My recomendation is WAR. Don't just double cross Wuxing, declare a guerilla war against them. |
Probably a bad idea since currently the stats for CATCo in this game include the flaw 'Hunted: 5 (JT)' (one of the other PCs) I suspect being at war with two AAAs is bad for business.
Personally, if I was the GM I'd have the contents of the box be something very, very hot. An extremely valuable item that Wuxing (and Cross, and possibly others) are going to be willing to pay dearly for... and more importantly, going to be willing to make you pay dearly for having.
You'd be subjected to assassination attempts, betrayals by low-level contacts (how much do you trust that Level 1 Fence you want to take it to?), kidnappings of any dependents or maybe higher level contacts, maybe some smear campaigns to try and ruin your rep, cyberterrorism (got a fake SIN? Now you've got a registered sex offender's fake SIN!), and maybe some good old fashioned destruction of property in the process (a safehouse here, a vehicle there...).
But, if you had the brains and balls to weather the storm, I'd make the contents of the safe worth at least a million for your trouble, maybe more (depending on how much shit I put you through). A million goes a long way when half of your team is too dead to take a cut, too!
So, basically what I'm saying is the tray is safe but modest and the box is risky but has a huge potential payoff. Really, nothing you didn't know before you asked. So the question is: do you feel lucky, punk?
You'd be subjected to assassination attempts, betrayals by low-level contacts (how much do you trust that Level 1 Fence you want to take it to?), kidnappings of any dependents or maybe higher level contacts, maybe some smear campaigns to try and ruin your rep, cyberterrorism (got a fake SIN? Now you've got a registered sex offender's fake SIN!), and maybe some good old fashioned destruction of property in the process (a safehouse here, a vehicle there...).
But, if you had the brains and balls to weather the storm, I'd make the contents of the safe worth at least a million for your trouble, maybe more (depending on how much shit I put you through). A million goes a long way when half of your team is too dead to take a cut, too!
So, basically what I'm saying is the tray is safe but modest and the box is risky but has a huge potential payoff. Really, nothing you didn't know before you asked. So the question is: do you feel lucky, punk?
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