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otomik
okay I suppose you could go for a CZ-52 Pistol, or a Glock 20 in 9x25mm Dillon, .22 Magnum in FMJ, those ballistics will be busting vests for a few years.
bclements
QUOTE (otomik)
it's the wave of the future, wave of the future, wave of the future, wave of the future, wave of the future...

Stop channeling Howard Hughes wink.gif
Raygun
QUOTE (otomik @ Dec 11 2005, 10:47 PM)
Abraham Flatau's Killer Donut bullet

I think this would be a good replacement for APDS in pistol calibers, doesn't fit the same old description but it is armor piercing and uses a discarding sabot. APRO and AFKD both have been known to cause feeding problems because of their shape. Massad Ayoob in this book I'm reading, Gun Digest Book of Sig Sauer Pistols, cautions against using really high velocity exotic bullets for defense because they don't cycle at the same velocities and so have unsatisfactory accuracy and feeding.

I don't think it's the shape that's the problem so much as the material it's made of. A lot of gunheads regularly praise the Flat Point Truncated Cone bullet shape as having better abilities at penetrating materials at oblique angles (such as car windshields). Back when I had that USP40, I used that type of bullet almost exclusively and never had feeding problems. If I could find some in .45 ACP, I'd be using it now. The closest I get is Hornady's XTP hollow point. It seems to work well through a 1911.

There are stories about feed ramp gouging with the Flatau bullet in certain handguns. That was mainly an issue of it using a very hard material (steel) with a sharp cutting edge as the "inner ring" of the bullet. That problem was solved relatively easily with a polymer filler extending through the center hole and forming a tip to guide the bullet into the chamber. Impact would just force the filler out through the rear of the bullet and allow the rest to do its job. That does comprise the lift-generating capabilities of the "ring airfoil" design, thus apparently takes a bit of flatness out of the trajectory. Not a big deal in a handgun bullet, though.

QUOTE
Kel-Tec PLR-16, it's the wave of the future, wave of the future, wave of the future, wave of the future, wave of the future...

I'll be more impressed when they make it out of wood. smile.gif

QUOTE
Has anyone done gelatin (or perhaps anesthetized pig) testing with the round? I keep wondering if the tissue not displaced but simply moved through the hollow center, and the permanent wound that's probably smaller in diameter than the projectile itself, will lead to not a lot of bleeding?

I recall seeing some terminal data for the Flatau bullet, but I'm having trouble finding it right now. IIRC, because of the shape, the bullet had a tendency to destabilize in flesh, causing it to tumble and yaw, though I don't recall any penetration depth figures. At any rate, the wound cavity is unlikely to be any worse than that generated by 5.7x28mm or 4.6x30mm.

QUOTE (otomik)
okay I suppose you could go for a CZ-52 Pistol

Well, the pistol is utilitarian at best (you're probably aware that I own one, as well as my opinions about it), but something chambered in 7.62x25mm using the .223 Timbs load and an AP bullet (true APDS) would probably work nicely.
otomik
heh, too much compromise, I'll stick with my russian 4 Gauge anti-vehicular shotgun and buy some cyberarms when they fall off.

http://www.tulatoz.ru/en/toz123.html cyber.gif

no wait, a .50 caliber machinegun that is light enough to fit in the back of a yugo, I shall make it out of wood, I will call it the spruce ma deuce!
Ed_209a
CIS might have the thing for ya. I don't have the stats at hand, but they have a .50BMG HMG that is 1/3 lighter than the M2.

The recoil would be another thing entirely. Better weld the tripod directly to the frame.
Austere Emancipator
The XM312 weighs 42lbs with a tripod, vs. 128lbs for an M2HB on a tripod. Couldn't find the weight of the XM312 w/o the mount on a quick Google.
Ed_209a
Ooh, shiny!

Ya know, Christmas is coming... and you all forgot my birthday...

biggrin.gif
Shrike30
QUOTE (otomik)
the spruce ma deuce!

*cracks up* rotfl.gif
otomik
yeah but "the Spruce Ma Deuce" is a better nickname for my wang than "XM312" wink.gif
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