I imagine lots of Orcs/humans/elves. Dwarves and Trolls need equipment adapted to fit them so I see them in specialized units where their unique skills match their jobs and where all the equipment for that unit match their particular metatype needs.

Allright, "realistically" speaking, I am not so sure.

There will be tremendous heat and explosion, molten slag and such.

However, we are talking about enviromentally sealed, extremely thick composite armor, that covers all entrance/exits.

The biggest obstacle I see would be taking superheated air into their lungs. If they are using internal air tanks that is not a problem, but I don't really see that as standard.

If they did, they would have a chance that the molten slag would not get through their armor. I'm not sure how good the chance is, as I am not sure just how tough the stuff is. Considering what it is capable of resisting though, it would not surprise me if some of the tougher members, spent some karma/edge and got through it.

Be sorry for the guy who's sitting up against the blast entry. Armor or not... Sealed or not... etc...

Unless going through several inches of reinforced metal slowed it down that the hardened milspec armor that can bounce rifle rounds with merely a ding could deflect or slow it down enough for survival.

The only thing I can see having a chance would be the HEAT missiles and if there are unarmored occupants surviving now than that adds to me thinking milspec could easily survive.

They mention cartoonish explosions in Fields of Fire. As long as you don't have fautly wiring, sabotage or the such, then the vehicle will not ball of fire on you.

Yeah, I have a hard time believing any wearable armor will resist a spike of tungsten at supersonic velocities, recent vehicle penetration or not. Of course, you'd probably see less spalling and such from a penetrator strike than, for instance, a HEAT strike. Unless someone's right in the path of the projectile, they could still walk away. Assuming the magazine doesn't blow.

This discussion reminds me of a quote from another thread.

That's if the penetrator hits you. That's not the only lethal thing in the vehicle. It might fragment, there might be shrapnel, and those penetration stats are probably for specific angles. If it hits you at a small enough angle the pentrator might even be deflected (into your buddy).

At any rate, the thread is about what equipment UCAS would have. Whether or not full body armor protects against tank rounds has no real bearing on whether or not they'd buy it. It still offers significant protection to a soldier that costs a lot of money to train and I think they'd buy it.

As I understand the wierd world of high impact physics, a large portion of that superdense penetrator would be a spray of molten superdense penetrator by the time it penetrated the armor. That would be bad for anyone inside not in armor, good for those in armor.

I imagine the effect would be like drilling a hole in a AFV, then firing a shotgun several times in the hole, followed by a short burst from a flame thrower for good measure.

TheHappyAnarchist may be correct in his assessment that full body armor, enviroseals, respirators, etc. have a moderate chance of increasing the soldiers' survival rate against spalling from heat rounds and such, but too me it seems to be a poor cost-benifit tradeoff. In my personal opinion, that money would be better spent on different enhancements, such as adding reactive plates to the exterior of the vehicle. Especially when we consider the tradeoff of extra space taken up and increased clumsiness that comes with all that protection. I know I had enough frustration trying to wobble around the interior of tanks in MOPP-4 (chemical suits) that I wouldn't want to try it in something even bulkier.

No, I think the stereotype is that all keebs are pansys that belong in the secretarial pool if they can't cast magic.

[edit]Ok, maybe stick em in scouts.

Nah, you stick the elves for PR duty and for communications. Also, they're good for being bait.

The Air Force always needs nurses...

How many magically-talented types do you think the Army could get? They almost certainly wouldn't pay as well as the corps, but might be more willing to accepts metas than the Japanese-based Megas.

Adepts wouldn't be such a big deal (there aren't that many combative things they can do that a sufficient quantity of bullets can do just as well or better), but I'd think that maintaining wards on fighting vehicles and running astral security would be imperative.

[edit]I'd think that all mages would be listed as Warrant officers, so it wouldn't be a problem paying them on a higher scale. But there's only so far the Army could go with that stuff. Maybe they get all their folks from ROTC and such. MIT&M has got to be pretty expensive, but just agree to work for Uncle Sam for a few years and you education is free...Then they hook you into joining the Army magical group for initiation, and you won't be able to leave without breaking strictures!

They could give mages a HUGE signing bonus. Though my personal opinion is that they would be considered "contractors", and get really big bucks.

I know that the Navy offered to pay for my entire medical schooling - with the fine print that I had to spend an equal number of years as a medical officer.

I imagine they probably do the same thing for magicians. They'll train you in Sorcery and Conjuring, but then you have to sign on for a number of years.

Considering how dangerous learning Conjuring can be on your own time, that might be an option that a lot of people go for.

-Frank

Plus, it's probably a better deal than signing with the corps for, well, forever.

And some people probably do it for the patriotism, and the chance to legally learn fireball.

Ok, so what should my 'org chart' look like? One mage per Battalion? Per Company?

The average Mech Infantry Battalion will have ... around 140 combat vehicles to ward... way more than one mage could keep up with each month.

I would think the really potent mages would probably have their own command, or be attached to some sort of Airforce Startegic wing to perform Ritual Sorcery and or Counter Ritual Sorcery. I would imaging that most trained mages in the field probably are attached to command staffs where the ability to assist at a startegic level is greatest, rather than warding individual vehicles. While combat spells are likely known, illusion and augmentation spells are likely the order of the day, manipulation are also probably useful.

I see roughly 1 mage per company - only there is a group of them at Battalion or whatever instead of spread out.

They're too valuable a resource to be used on simple combat spells, although they probably know them. Scrying, summoning, interrogation (mind probe) are probably their big specialities.

A few fighter jets with the movement power up could really scream!

I'd say the likelihood of a talented magician having a command is greater than an average person having the same command, but I wouldn't say it should be seen as a guaranteed position.

Mages can be unsuitable for command just like anyone else, especially with some of the mentor spirits out there influencing/reflecting their personalities.

I see a couple of mages being kept at the Batallion level and six or seven more at Regimantal level deployed on an as needed basis with Special Forces Group putting one magic user in each troop.

Regular and Elite units would deploy the Mages to provide force protection from creatively applied magical threats. Some examples of such being; the setting up of an ambush to push a unit into a building into which an Op-For mage put a bound fire elemental with orders to "kill any body who enters this building"; the enemy's use of Toxic Wave down a hallway in CQB, or having an Air elemental remove all the air from around the flying recon drone to kill it before it sees the enemy unit... . Maybe also have the mage use his fireball or lightning bolt spells to mess up smaller fighting drones and even screw with the heavier drone armour on the ground as well as dusting the sniper hiding in that building over there, but we're not sure where...

Special Forces Group would use thier magic users for many similar things as well as assisting the field medic and putting stealth spells and their own spirit force to use, not to mention a much more secure version of battlefield communication, Astral Perception!

I would bet that Mages, being rare, gifted individuals would be sent into an Officer Program. Commissioning a Mage would also improve the chances of security and loyalty, which are both vital when you train the person in your magical procedures and techniques. Let's face it, in the awakened world we will see the world's militaries (Government and Corporate alike) begin to optimize their magical ability the instant they know its there. I mean geez, magic is at best a theoretical thing in our world, yet every major cold war power has had a "Magic" program in one form or another at one point between the 50's and the 90's

You'd definately want at least one mage per ship. A spirit providing movement is simply too valuable to not have on anything that takes that much fuel to get around.

-Frank

I think army doctrine would be to use mages only for things that couldn't be done mundanely. So, no throwing lightning bolts at drones, or stunballing enemies. Same logic goes for putting them in leadership positions; any mook with average intel and charisma can be a lieutenant, mages shouldn't waste their time there.

If I only had a limited number of mages, mine would focus on:

• Warding sensitive areas (vehicles, buildings, etc.)
• Astral scouting with watchers
• Summoning spirits for Concealment, Guard, and Movement on friendly forces, and for Accident, Confusion, and Movement (slow) on enemy forces.
• As a reaction force to respond to raids from enemy spirits.
• Divining

I agree with Apathy, with one exception.

Every special forces team would have a mage that is trained to integrate with the unit.
They would have stunball, likely some sort of elemental manip, lots of stealth magic and some conjuring goodness.

It said somewhere in the book that there are a fair number of people who have never seen a mage IRL. Maybe they're even only at division level?

I remember that the figure is something like "about 1 in 100 people has some sort of magical talent, and only a fraction of those have any competence with it."

So if you were to (overgeneralize and) impress that vague "less than 1%" figure upon the military, it would suggest their scarcity and therefore role.

1% is a very large percentage to say that there are people who have never met one. For example, the 2000 US census reported 1.5 percent of people claiming native american/alaskan heritage. Have you ever met anyone who has native american heritage? Of course you have! They might not've been wearing a headdress or buffalo skin chaps, but of the thousands of people you encounter, you've met some.
Or autism. Autism affects 0.02-0.1 percent of people. And I'm sure you've seen or met an autistic person.
1% is a lot. 1% is enough that you probably encounter someone almost every day. More, if you live in a city and encounter hundreds or thousands of people in a day. The fact that magicians look just like everyone else means you might not realize it, but everyone in the 6th world interacts with magicians, whether they know it or not.

Here is the quote:

Hard as it is to believe, even in 2070 there’s still a decent
percentage of average citizens out there who have never seen
anybody do magic outside of the trids and sims. Magical ability
is getting more common with each generation, but it’s still
rare enough that full-fl edged magicians and adepts don’t turn
up on every corner.

Personally in the games I run it's not that rare. Then again I don't like putting mages up on a pedestal.