Frosty and Bookwyrm brought up some nice points in my Nuyen post. I started this as a reply but I thought it would make a good post in and of itself.

One group I played with for a while had running almost down to science (Well IMHO we did.) But did we sweat? You betcher ass we did. We laid down some ground rules on what we would do and what we wouldn't. So I guess I'll lay them out here. These are in no particular order.

1. Only the face and one other person go to the meet with Johnson. At least that is what the Johnson hopefully thought. We never went with the whole team at the meet. Sure they were close by in the building as they could be in case s**t went down. We basically did this to limit exposure. If all the Johnson saw were two people then we might have an edge. Sure the Johnson could be ultra-paranoid and it wouldn't matter but it pays to be safe.

2. Do not get to know each other contacts. Your contacts are just that, YOURS. Again this was good to limit exposure. Generally if someone captures and interrogates you they will want to pry all the info they can from you. With mages this becomes an even bigger problem. The less you know the better.

3. Always have a safe house. We had team safe houses and we also had safe houses that no one else on the team knew about. Again if the s**t goes down you know there is always someplace safe you can go. Maybe.

4. Hoard info like miser hoards gold. Information is power but it can also kill you. This is one problem with Legwork. Spreading nuyen and info around town is great way to get yourself killed. Sometimes you have to but like Redford's character told Pitt's in Spygame "You just gave away three pieces of information for one. Also you lied so now the lie has to become truth." Basically give away just enough to get what you need. A good Face is essential for this, or a kick ass decker who can cover his tracks.

5. Always have a way out. On run always have at least two escape routes. Know how to get out of city if everyone is looking for you.

6. Check out your contacts. Now your GM may not even think of this, but it's good to know who you're dealing with. Have they screwed people over in the past? Why? What happened? What is their normal business practice? And get some dirt if you can, especially if you don't trust them. Is that Street Doc you go to a junky? Does that fence have a Lone Star sheet? Does he trade people to the Star for letting him off the hook? Is there a cop you know who is dirty?

7. If you have to shoot or fight assume the worst. Basically if you have to use your weapon things have gone to hell. If you make it out dump your gear. Cops love Ballistic matches. Burn you clothes. Hell blow up your gateway vehicle if you can. Basically if there is anything that can tie you to a run dump it. One thing is to get a former Forensic Mage to use magic to wipe a place clean. Ritual Sorcery is a bitch. I know some of you munch players are saying "What the hell are you talking about? That's where the fun starts!" And there is nothing wrong with a game like that but if you are playing an SR game with a more realistic aspect this is very bad.

8. Don't ever screw a Johnson. Sure he may be the prick of the world. He may stiff you on some payment. But don't get cute. Basically come humble and leave quietly. Now that's not to say you should take in the ass but don't start it. In our world Johnson's could be got it to. By screwing people you make enemies. Johnsons wouldn't do that to us all that often (I think it happened twice), but you know karma is a bitch. One Johnson died by our hand the other was killed by someone else who was more badass then us who had a score to settle.

9. Always take into account the possible consquences of your act. Only fool takes a job he doesn't how it's going to go down after it's over. Sure sometimes you need the money and can't know all the particulars, sometimes you don't want to know, but don't be spending that nuyen you just got when Knight Errent is looking for persons matching your description. I mean all you did was rip a file from a small software Corp, right?

Remember this mantra "What we do is illegal somewhere. To someone I'm a criminal."

If you guys got any rules your team or character lives by and why post 'em. Be glad to read 'em

Excellent points.

Unfortunately, no one in our group plays a Face which I agree, is as necessary as a Wiz Decker. The closest to one I ran was Lana Lane the snoop who actually worked pretty well since she had a few edges (like Friendly Face & Good Rep) to help her along with specialisation in Interviewing (Interrogation), Fast Talking (Negotiation), and useful knowledge skills that supported her profession. Unfortunately the rest of the team considered her a wuss since she wasn't maxxed out in combat skill, Initiative, & Reaction. Didn't matter that her smooth talking and genteel personality saved their butts on several occasions.

Yes, she had a code of her own in a way: "Treat others as you wish to be treated in return." She even would go out of her way to maintain her contacts (in her line of work they are extremely valuable), cultivating their trust and loyalty and would frequently help a teammate who only a few hours before had insulted her. Really screwed with their heads.

I had a character who lived by the Code of Chivalry. Straight out of Arthurian legend. He wasn't an adept with a geas or anything. He was an Elf sword swinger with next to no cyber, no magic, nothing to set him apart, except his pursuit of justice. They guy was a vigilante who was trying to help the little guy. He was always very particular about the runs he'd participate in. There were times he sat out the actual job, and was either on stand by, or doing something he considered to be important. Good, upstanding guy, but he was down right brutal under certain circumstances. Think of a D&D paladin without any magic powers or special benefits. Fun character.

My current character's rough code:

1) Always come back from the run.

2) Never leave evidence you don't have to. That includes witnesses.

3) In many ops, there is a point at which opening up with the big guns is better than sneaking around. Learn to recognize that point and use it. It frequently occurs during the exit portion of a clean run.

Corollary 3A) Unless you have to, never open up until the estimated time to escape is under two-thirds of the estimated response time of the opposition's backup.

4) Never leave traitors alive.

(Alex broke this code once, but it was for a boatload of cash so it was ok.)

5) If the job involves burning down orphanages, the price doubles.

5A) Every fifth orphanage is half price.

5B) Every twenty-fifth orphanage is free.

6) Your contacts (game-rule official and the random folk you know but don't have an in-game effect) helped get you where you are. Never leave them behind, always go the extra mile for them. You'll be surprised at how much this can mean to some people.

6A) But don't pay more than you have to. Nuyen is life. Not all of life, but all of it tends to go away if you don't have nuyen.

6B) See rule 4.

7) Accept no runs in Berlin, nor against known S-K Prime installations. At least not for a few more years.

8) If you have a chance to kill a cop and get away cleanly, do it. If the force's life expectancy gets too high, they start getting uppity.

9) The same does not necessarily apply to UCAS army personnel posing as cops. It might, it might not, check back later.

10) Chicago is no longer a good place to live.

~J

Killing everyone who frags with you sends a message: if you frag with me, be willing to kill or die. This can be good or bad based on how fast you can think and how often the enemy thinks.

Every death costs roughly 6 nuyen, and three to five deaths requires a six-hour waiting period to acquire bullets on the black market. Maybe less if you're a super-badass, but it works out to about that. If nothing else, make sure that each death is worth what you're putting into them.

Steal vehicles. It's crazy worth it to have someone else's insured vehicle get shot to shit during the run.

Join an pro-metahumanity group. The number of runs where Alamos 20,000 or Humanis Policlub try to screw you is unbelieveable, and at least these guys can help run interference on that.

My charater's rules are surprisingly similar to Kagetenshi's. There are two important additions:

Do not ever again let yourself being convinced to work with the OMMC (Ork Mercenary Marine Corps) on a stealth mission.

If you ever need some help in completely reducing a city quarter to dust, call the OMMC.

Those two are abolutely vital! Trust me!

My Fav characters main code/mattra whatever was simple:

Everyone is out to screw you if they know who you are.

Never leave a teammate behind, if said teammate is alive. Bodies are heavy, they slow you down.

Never unplug the decker before the deck.

Listen to the tingly feeling on the back of your neck. It usually means you've forgotten something.

Always carry both radio detonaters and timers.

Always know if the opposition is prone to elemental manipulations -- dress accordingly.

There is a distinct difference between a run which requires stealth and a run which requires exceptional violence. Be aware of this difference. Do not prepare for one type of run when the actual run is the other.

Do NOT give the metalhead reason to kill you.

Do NOT allow teammates with a tendency to have homes destroyed into your only or most expensive home.

Do not assume any person with no cyberware, bioware or magic is human/metahuman. Assume it is a dragon. Plan accordingly.

Always let the person with the highest negotiations do the negotiations.

If a run involves: The Renraku Arcology, ensure the nuyen received is greater than 6 digits.

Hmm... I don't know if any character I play has anything I'd call a code, but the one I play in the same game as Kagetenshi would probably come up with something like this:

1. Take care of your friends - sitting alone on a pile of Nuyen, going crazy waiting for someone to stab you in the back is no way to live - loyalty matters.

1a. That doesn't mean you should be a blindly trusting fool.

2. Don't kill people unless you have to, but once you get started, don't settle for half-measures. People who carry guns for a living knew what they were getting into and are always fair game.

2a. Just because someone is fair game, it doesn't mean you should go out of your way to kill them.

3. When convenient, let enemies underestimate you and turn it to your advantage.

4. Be reasonable, but make sure someone doesn't confuse it with weakness. It saves time and ammo.

5. Never make a plan with more than three steps, it's a waste of time. Make sure you have at least a couple of very simple contingency plans for when things outside of your control interfere, and everything goes wrong, instead.

6. Stick to things you're good at.

From Wedge in the SSC:

"BLAM! A single gunshot and another all-to-wise razorboy gets geeked. Why? Because he was stupid. Because he thought he knew best. Because he refused to listen.

Every punker that hits the streets thinks he knows best. He thinks he's got the ultimate edge and that everybody else will just fold up when he pops those long chromuim carbide blades. Wrong. They're going to laugh instead.

The moment you step on the streets, you must immediately assume that you are in a war zone and that you are a target. On the streets, paranoia is a way of life. Without it youre pizza. Assume that every situation, every deal is potentially life-threatening and you just might live to see the morning.

There is no clean and fast way to work the streets. Nobody has a patented method of survival, but keeping certain things in mind just might make life a little safer.

Assume that everything you do is part of your own personal little war. All this drek about "Zenning" through life is garbage. might as well put a bag over your head and dance in traffic.

Think about what you are doing. Plan ahead. Study your options. Try to out-think your opponent. Consider what he's going to do next, and what you can do to be ready for it.

Know you enemy. By learning all you can about him, you can begin to understand how he thinks and is likely to react. Knowledge is power.

Always check with your contacts. Even if it's your big-buddy older-brother sliding it to you, check it out. I'm not saying you should always believe everything you hear, but put your ear to the pavement and listen anyway.

Pay attention to your surroundings. Know your territory. Too many young razorboys assume that they can get away with carrying their Kingslayer Assault Cannons casually over one shoulder while windor-shopping along Money Street.

Laws and enforcement vary, depending where you are. Procedures can change from block to block and from cop to cop. If you're in a neighborhood that the cops like, play it safe, take it easy and keep it concealed. The worse the neighborhood, the more the cops are going to let things slide. A heavy weapon of any kind is an excuse to call out the riot squad, and an assault rifle is worth atleast three carloads of backup, and maybe even a light chopper.

Carrying big guns and obvious armor is just asking for trouble, in any neighborhood. In many places, an obvious weapon or obvious armor make you and immediate target.

Understand how this war of yours is going to be fought. It servers no purpose to have your H&K 227 in perfect working order if your enemy is going to shut you down with long range magic. Study the options, consider the possibilities.

It also serves no purpose to take on an obviously superior for head-on. Use hit-and-run tactics whenever possible. Keep your engagements short and sharp. Use the shock of violence to your advantage and be gone before that shock wears off. Leave the protracted open-field fighting to the military idoiots who have the manpower to soak up the casualties.

If you do get into combat, try to get out of it as fast as you can. There is too much uncertainty in the chaos of battle to guarantee any result. If you must fight, control it. Choose the terrain, choose the weaponry, choose the participants.

Don't let your opponent set the pace. Be active, not reactive. Force his hand, rather than letting him force yours. Gain and holding the initiative.

Harass your opponent. Anger may lead to error.

The only thing you can be certain of is what you can do. Everything else is suspect.

And never, ever, be dumb enough to think you've won."

and of course:
"Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner." Neil McCauley Heat

KKs code is pretty simple (see below)

1. Paranoia is your freind. Listen to it. You live in a bunker for a reason.
2. Always push towards excellence. You live by the edges of your skills and your cyber, so keep them in top form and alway keep improving them.
3. Business is business, but when folks make it personal, hunt them down and kill them. It'll keep folks from doing it again.
4. Keep your word. It'll foster trust amongst your contacts, and build up a good rep.
4a. Once you take the money for a job, do it or die trying, unless the Johnson betrays you. If he does, find out where he lives, and put a bullet through his head with your sniper rifle.

"...no women, no kids-that's the rules..."
-Leon

1. Don't take your own car(s), helicopter, plane, zepplin or whatever on the run or to the meeting.

2. Only place calls from public telecoms. You don't need to recieve calls.

3. Minimum of 3 safehouses, not counting that condo in the Carib league.

4. Always get paid no matter what. Sell the data yourself, steal stuff, kill the Johnson, whatever it takes.

5. Shit doesn't roll down hill. Just because your contact/Johnson gets screwed, it doesn't go down the line to my team.

6. Innocents don't die.

I suaully ended up as the face for the group, by temperment if not calling, I was usually a spell slinger but my rules were,

keep a legal cover.

cultivate legal contacts. Especially in law enforcement.

only break laws on runs and then only when it can't be avoided.

avoid unnessary killing

Be straight up with the Johnson in all things.

Do NOT do wetwork.

EVER.

Mortax:

(I may not remember all of it so I may have to edit.)

1. Keep your word, above all else honor is important.
2. Do not kill innocents
3. Do not allow yourself to become weak, there will always be those trying to kill you.
4. Do not reveal your nature to anyone. (Vampires are not welcome most of the time.)
5. It is impossible to survive without friends and contacts, cultivate them
6. Fear the greeks, even when they bring gifts.
7. The Johnson is out for himself, never trust them to be honest
8. Hope for the best, plan for everything
9. Anyone belonging to Alamos 20K, Unity, or Humanis polly clubs are not innocents, they are prey.
10. If you must deal with dragons, assume they are going to try to screw you or eat you.
11. Always continue to lear everything you can about everything.
12. Never stop training your body, being immortal does not mean you can ge lazy.
13. No unnessisary killing.
14. Avoid breaking the law where possible
15. Do not create more of your kind
16. Death is preferable to falure.
17. Do not get caught
18. Take out anyone with a weapon focus first.
19. Take out the Mage next.
20. Kill anything resembling an insect spirit

"Never violate a woman, nor harm a child. Do not lie, cheat or steal.
These things are for lesser men.
Protect the weak against the evil strong.
And never allow thoughts of gain to lead you into the pursuit of evil.
Never back away from an enemy. Either fight or surrender.
It is not enough to say I will not be evil. Evil must be fought wherever it is found."

The "Iron Code"

It's Always about the Nuyen and how to earn it, no one else.

Always look about for number 1 before you look out for number 2.

When dealing with the star , use Lethal force cause they want to kill you.

Use and keep your contacts.

Make extra cash on the side. " I sell Nova Coke"

Always repay a debt.

be very careful of who you work with.

Be Loyal to those who find trust in you.

Wow. This whole thread's like a collection of macho one-liners, only some of which make sense. Handy.

Give me one thing that lethal force will get you that you can't get just as easily non-lethal.

Magic can't heal stun damage, in SR4 stun is actually the better type of damage, and in SR3 it is certainly no worse.

APDS gets through armor, but so does Gel rounds with DMSO and Neurostun.
Spellways, Stun has a lower drain code, and can be cast at a higher force, vs will which may or may not be high amongst star. Generally though it is lower than body. Stunball makes for an excellent way to take down a large amount of police, whereas Power/Manaball or elemental manipulations give you craploads more drain, and thus cannot be cast at a higher force without risking serious harm.

There are ample effects both magical and technologica for confusion, smoke creating, and back doors. There are numerous ways of avoiding the situation.

What possible reason would you want the cops to take a personal interest in everything you do, carefully looking for the slightest clue that will lead to you and shaking down all you contacts, likely kill you if they find you, and if they don't it is worse, when the alternative is actually arguably more effective?

By killing cops you are choosing the less effective way of dealing with them at the high cost of making yourself a #1 priority for a very large amount of people with a large amount of contacts, many in the biz (how many shadowrunners do you see with contact: Lone Star Detective?) who specialize in investigating, have advanced magical and technological resources for tracing you, and are perfectly willing to do whatever it takes to make an example of you?

Killing cops is nearly always the worst thing you can do in a situation!!! Good lord, turning yourself in is a better option.

Certainty.

A similar discussion.

In SR3 Stun is indeed worse. Serious Stun can be healed (if temporarily) in seconds via a stimpatch, while even a Light Heal/Treat has a base time of five turns of sustaining to become permanent. Taking your average highly competent spellslinger (twelve dice to cast) on a cop (maximum Essence 5) results in an expected four successes. That's two turns for a Light wound, ten for a Moderate, and fifteen for not even healing all of a Serious wound. That sounds worse to me.

You're also making the very questionable assumption that gel-rounding or capsule-rounding a squad of the 'Star will not attract their ire.

~J

Echo what Kage, mmu1, and Solstice said.

My character has taken the "Distinctive Style" flaw.

In this case, he has a personal code of honor.

Being raised in Japan, he follows the religion of onmyodo, the Japanese counterpart to Taoism/Daoism, "The Way of Yin and Yang", which, at least as I understand it, was a common religious belief among ninja. He seeks balance in his own life, as well as others'. In a nutshell, he will *always* do what he thinks is the right thing, regardless of others' opinions, and whether or not it's (at least technically) illegal.

(Unusual for a PC whose primary job will eventually be as an assassin, I know. )

(1) If he gives his word, regardless of to whom, he *always* keeps it (put another way, your word is one of the few things that you must give away in order to keep it) <see sig. below>;

(2) He WON'T kill law-enforcement officers, *unless absolutely necessary*--this includes anyone from corporate security guards to Ares Knight Errant officers, among others (generally speaking, nothing complicates a 'runner's life more quickly than killing a cop);

(2a) Soldiers--of whatever type-- are specifically exempt from this rule, because they are professionals, and thus more dangerous than cops or corporate security officers, for whom it is often just a way of making a living;

(3) No children, *EVER*, and the *only* time that he'll use lethal force against a woman--except in self-defense, or in the defense of others--is if the job specifically calls for it (i.e., if it's straight-up wetwork and one or more of the targets is female);

(3a) Number (3) above does *not* apply to members of other 'runner teams hired to eliminate either the PC or other members of his team;

(3b) Or to a double-crossing Johnson, if said Johnson happens to be a woman;

(4) He won't take a job if there's a risk of collateral damage--either to people or property. If asked to perform such a job, he'll walk out. If a Johnson wants a bloodbath, for whatever reason (one crime family "sending a message" to another, for example), he/she is trying to hire the wrong guy--they want a butcher, not a surgeon; and

(4a) No innocent bystanders--i.e., he won't use lethal force against a potential witness, and will instead seek less violent alternatives (i.e., a pistol loaded with Gel rounds, a Taser, or a Narcoject loaded with Gamma-Scopolamine). (Note: If a bystander draws/picks up a weapon, he/she immediately becomes a *TARGET*, and is no longer considered a bystander.)

--Foreigner

From that discussion, I found Ed Simmons questions on this page particularly important, and yet they were not addressed.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...opic=8077&st=50

I also found this bit interesting

Stay alive. Everything else is secondary to this.

This is why the Sanitize spell is so useful. Takes care of all of those pesky bloodstains...

As a tribute to the 80s I think it's important to have at least one character spilling some tortured American dramatic understanding of bushido all over your game world. If you can make him start quoting characters in an Eric Van Lustbaeder novel, that's bonus points.

I've even gone one-better on that. For a while I was playing a character who was a direct, blatant, and intentional ripoff of Sho Kosugi in "Revenge of the Ninja". In fact, the idea was to play Sho Kosugi's character in the Shadowrun setting, which was less sufforcating than you might think since his character hadn't been developed in too much detail, really, in the film.

So, for a number of games, I was typing (this was in IRC) with a super exaggerated Japanese accent (and people were having trouble understanding me, which was awesome), and I basically flung around an 80s movie ninja code, actually as shallow as a wading pool, as though it were rancid sausage all over the game. Man, what fun it was.

EDIT:

Heh, as distinct from the American 80s ninja sterotype, I once used the Japanese 80s ninja sterotype which tends to revolve around lean, melodramatic young men looking for their fathers who are also ninjas. (The example you probably all remember would be Ryu Hayabusa from Ninja Gaiden I). So, in someone's campaign I had a lean emo guy who went around in a short kimono and loincloth. The combination of my character's constant emo posturing and erratic, continual ninja-like hiding at inappropriate times made that character a truly awesome gaming experience. And by awesome, I mean I succeeded in annoying someone.

First Critias... nice... You called it.

I think Toturi gets the award for best code. You summed up in two short sentences what I was talking about in my long ass post. My hat is off to you sir.

I do find it interesting that almost without exception everyone listed not lying, or honesty as being a value. Why is that I wonder? Is honesty that important or is it the perception of honesty? Overwhelmingly most people's codes are made up of a veneer of morality but they're really just pragmatic rather than virtuous.

I do like the not taking wetwork runs and the over use of non-lethal subdual combat. Really those methods aren't all that effective. I mean sure you can use magic to put someone out of commission pretty effectively but you can't do that all the time. (Mage collapse) A DMSO/<whatever> cocktail is nice but its use, realistically, is very limited. As far as putting someone down a good ole fashioned bullet wound does the job.

One of our house rules is that every time you receive a physical wound you have to roll a Willpower check to keep fighting. You have to get as many successes as you have wound boxes. If you don't get all the boxes then that is how many combat rounds you basically just lay there bleeding. Basically it takes a mentally tough hombre to keep fighting after taking a Serious physical wound. You shoot an average security guard in the leg and he'll probably not want to fight anymore. Also that little non-lethal cocktail takes a little bit to take effect, or at least it should. While it's doing its magic the guard is probably still shooting at you. So that could be a problem.

So what's the solution? Use stealth when possible and don't go out of your way to kill but if you are going to pull it don't f**k around.

Now don't take this the wrong way. I'm not busting on anyone's code. Some of them were just funny as hell. I think it's great that most Shadowrunners out there are Boy/Girl Scouts with Big Guns. I guess my question would be why does your character value these things? Is it she thinks she should act? Does he think it will be helpful to him or is it because it's "the right thing to do"? Is it because that is how shadowrunners are supposed to act?

Just curious.

It isn't a part of everyone's priorities, you know.

~J

If you don't metagame your approach to Stun and Deadly damage too much, there's very little practical incentive for using "non-lethal" weapons on your opposition, for a couple of reasons.

1. Chances are, the cops or the corps don't particularly care what you attacked them with, and they'll shoot to kill in response anyway.

2. Legally speaking, they can call it assault with a deadly weapon or attempted murder regardless of what you used. Gel rounds aren't non-lethal, they're less-lethal - same goes for shock gloves, or narcojet. If someone needs a second shot to be put down after taking S stun, and ends up at S physical, then in non-metagame terms, you just injured someone to within an inch of their life.

Yeah. Waving a gun at someone is waving a gun at someone. It's not like, mid-combat, your average sec-guard or cop is gonna go "Hey, wait. Nevermind. Hah hah, ohhh, those kids. These are just gel rounds! Okay, dispatch. Ignore that request for backup. Let's go on home, boys!"

I like that houserule about needing to roll to keep fighting after taking Physical damage. I think it makes combat more strategic and more harsh, which I like.

For those you who are curious that house rule is a base TN# 4 with wound modifiers. We also allow a Background or Active Skill: Combat Training

(Another GM and I disagree as to whether it should by background or Active. My vote is background because it's use is very limited, plus I say your character has to have actually had combat experience or fomralizied training to even have it.)

Combat Training is used as a complentary skill with the Willpower roll.

Oh and once your penalty rounds, if you have any, have passed you can resume normal combat behavior, whatever that is.

<This is per SR3 combat system.>

Chun the Unavoidable had a pretty lenient code. He'd lie, cheat, steal, murder, eat the flesh of victims, whatever. He did have one maxim that he always lived by:

Never piss in your swimming pool.

That means that no matter how well a job pays, if it's going to make you unable to work in the future don't take it.

Don't pollute the environment. That includes the astral environment.

Don't order your spirits to do things they don't want to do. Do take them out for pizza (or whatever they want) when they do services for you.

Don't dick over your friends. You can screw 20 people you don't care about, but your friends are off limits.

Don't get romantically involved with your own contacts, teammates, or spirits. Really.

---

Chun had no problem assassinating people. Or working as a foreign agent for Asamundo. But he recycled his bottles.

-Frank

So does that mean you can't have sex with your ally spirit? Even if it's dikoted?

My take on it.

I'm such a plug-whore.