Full Version: Jackpoint
| QUOTE (Chibu) |
| Alright, I'm trying to Add "Improved Ability" adept power and I get the error: Conversion from string "SR3.169" to type 'Double' is not valid. |
weird...i'll look into that...i may've just typed the book.page into the wrong field in the database
| QUOTE (Chibu) |
| And, You can't make an initiated Adept? Well, the Initiate button is there, but, you cna't have spell points... so, yeah |
well, as far as i know the optional rule to start the game as an initiate requires spell points to be spent in-place-of karma. so i guess no spell points, no initiation?
someone correct me if there is another, official way to initiate at char. gen...
| QUOTE (Ziechyel @ Feb 14 2006, 10:10 AM) |
First of all! Wow thats some nice piece of software  thanks m8  tryed it for a couple of hours now, and try´d out the grid map, works like a charm.. But...  The "bad guys" seems to erase the drawings? try´d to draw some houses on the map, then put a Bad guy in one of them... missed the spot, removed the bad guy again... but then he had removed/erased a section of the house -sad Also when you [tab] between windows the new window erases the things you´ve drawn -sad I might be doing something wrong? but thought you might wanted to know But it looks great *shivers* fantastic piece of work |
thanks man!
ok...i just loaded the program up to see this one for myself...
the markers can erase the lines...
any window you open over the map erases the lines...
i have no work around for this yet, but...
you can make custom maps with lines that won't erase...in the directory
C:\Program Files\Jackpoint
there is a file called
gridMap.jpg
you can open this jpeg in paint (or any other picture editor) and draw your map on top of the grid - then just save that map as it's own .jpg file (don't save the original, or you'll loose your blank grid) and load it into the grid map program.
i will look into learning more about how windows actually renders those lines and see if i can fix that problem.
Ok, well...if you look at the bugs/suggestions list in the first post, you can see what bugs i've fixed and suggestions i've taken and implemented.
unless a bunch more bugs come in before the end of the week, then i may release a beta2 version, since i'll have knocked out the entire list of bugs by then.
the nice thing for you beta testers is that now you've already installed the .NET 2.0 stuff - so any new releases will be a snap for you to install.
unless a bunch more bugs come in before the end of the week, then i may release a beta2 version, since i'll have knocked out the entire list of bugs by then.
the nice thing for you beta testers is that now you've already installed the .NET 2.0 stuff - so any new releases will be a snap for you to install.
Bitchin'!
| QUOTE (archimagus @ Feb 11 2006, 05:34 PM) |
| 1. The Character Sheet that opens in your web browser at the save and print stage is very simplistic right now. expect it to look much better in the first actual release. |
no no NO!
please, please tell me that the character sheet you guys see in your web browser is complete...just simple looking!
do you see everything, or just the character's name, race and edges and flaws?
i had the XSL sheet fully worked out, it was just a really plain presentation...layout was something i was going to work on tonight. but now i can only find my very first draft with only a couple of test fields - and it looks like that could be the version you guys got. if it is, then i'm out a couple hours of work
please let me know if you have a full copy that shows all stats and tables!
| QUOTE (archmagis) |
| the gear section needs to be more organized |
Considering the enormous amount of gear and the limited display area, combined with the fact that it's in alphabetical order, I don't see that much wrong with how it's organized. The only different method I can think of that might alleviate some of the searching would be to implement separate boxes such as "Headware", "Bodyware", etc, which might take up too much room to be feasible. Another thing that might be similar would be to leave them sorted the way they are, but within each box put headings in bold, so that you can easily scroll to the type of 'ware you're looking for. Just a thought. I'm all for super-organized, but there's only so much you can do, you know?
| QUOTE |
| workAround: you can uncheck the 'spending' checkbox at the bottom of the screen to give yourself free anything, including skills |
This works. You can just buy the skill at say, 6, then specialize in something, then turn off spending, change the values to 5/7, and then turn spending back on.
| QUOTE |
| some time down the road i'd like to bring the ranges back out, but it's just not a priority when all the functionality is an issue. |
Definitely understandable. It's a fairly minor thing anyway, considering that if I ask one of my players what the ranges are for their weapon I expect them to be able to look at their sheet and tell me.
| QUOTE |
| someone correct me if there is another, official way to initiate at char. gen... |
Just going off memory here, but I'm fairly certain that since you can effectively purchase SPs with nuyen, you could feasibly initiate at chargen. More than anything though, you have to consider that what's consider "starting character" might be different in every game. For example, the game I'm running right now consists of characters that had appx. 45 karma and 140k nuyen (on top of what nuyen they purchased w/ BPs) at chargen.
That said though, you've made it clear that the program only generates starting characters, by which you mean 120 BP, which is perfectly fine. It's going to totally kick ass when you develop the future version with the capability to spend karma, but until then we'll continue to drool over how badass the program is right now.
(On that note, would it be that hard to add a karma use option? Considering that it's all handled via simple multipliers depending on what you're improving, it should be pretty easy to include a box in which you type the amount of karma that a character has to spend, and it gets spent after all BPs are gone. I also assume, however, that it would entail about a billion more lines of code and that you've just deemed it "not important" for now.
) | QUOTE |
| the nice thing for you beta testers is that now you've already installed the .NET 2.0 stuff - so any new releases will be a snap for you to install. |
Cool cool. I wondered if that was a one-time deal. Wonder no more.
| QUOTE |
| please, please tell me that the character sheet you guys see in your web browser is complete...just simple looking! |
Sorry man. I only get name/race/edges-flaws. I meant to ask you about that earlier in the week, but must have forgotten to type it out.
More later. Must go buy non-pain inducing keyboards.
I'll be putting my players' characters into Jackpoint Beta as they are emailed to me over the next couple of days. The sheer variety of traits should be enough to dig out anything else. To input them, I'll have to turn off all of the limiters, so if there are any bugs associated with doing so, I should find them through this exercise.
Of course, of the six of us, only 3 are remotely addicted to information sharing and constant internet use, so I may not get to add all of them this week...meaning they'll just be great cannon-fodder for JPB2.
Also, as much as I dislike sounding like a good little MS minion, the MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 is a freaking dream come true, and at $49.95 - $10 mail in rebate, a total steal. Mmmmmmmmm....(semi)pain-free typing.
Of course, of the six of us, only 3 are remotely addicted to information sharing and constant internet use, so I may not get to add all of them this week...meaning they'll just be great cannon-fodder for JPB2.
Also, as much as I dislike sounding like a good little MS minion, the MS Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000 is a freaking dream come true, and at $49.95 - $10 mail in rebate, a total steal. Mmmmmmmmm....(semi)pain-free typing.
| QUOTE (archimagus) | ||
no no NO! please, please tell me that the character sheet you guys see in your web browser is complete...just simple looking! do you see everything, or just the character's name, race and edges and flaws? i had the XSL sheet fully worked out, it was just a really plain presentation...layout was something i was going to work on tonight. but now i can only find my very first draft with only a couple of test fields - and it looks like that could be the version you guys got. if it is, then i'm out a couple hours of work please let me know if you have a full copy that shows all stats and tables! |
All I get is a couple boxes with name and race.
I have not added edges nor flaws to my character yet.
PS - I got the same sorcery error as detailed above.
PS - I got the same sorcery error as detailed above.
New bug.
To input these "uber" characters I had turned off all three limiters. When I started choosing edges and flaws, I noticed that if you remove anything, it turns Spending back on.
To input these "uber" characters I had turned off all three limiters. When I started choosing edges and flaws, I noticed that if you remove anything, it turns Spending back on.
First off, if I haven't remembered to mention it yet, I think it's totally bitchin' that the program learns, and that I don't have to re-type stuff like new weapons if I want to use them again.
However, I'm beginning to think that if there's one section where it shouldn't learn and save stuff, it's knowledge skills. I don't know about other people's games, but I know that nearly every character that gets made in our games has probably 75% "new" skills; that is, skills that we just make up to fit the character. At this rate, the knowledge skill list is going to be comletely unnavigable before I even get done inputting the characters before starting game.
I like that there's a list there to choose from, and you've got tons of great, useful stuff in there. However, if it's possible to "turn off" the learning feature for just one area, that'd be the one to turn off.
Suggest adding a "Remove Geas" button under Magic.
Along the same lines as the handling box, when Armor is selected under "New Gear" it should have slots for Ballistic and Impact. Currently it only has one box.
However, I'm beginning to think that if there's one section where it shouldn't learn and save stuff, it's knowledge skills. I don't know about other people's games, but I know that nearly every character that gets made in our games has probably 75% "new" skills; that is, skills that we just make up to fit the character. At this rate, the knowledge skill list is going to be comletely unnavigable before I even get done inputting the characters before starting game.
I like that there's a list there to choose from, and you've got tons of great, useful stuff in there. However, if it's possible to "turn off" the learning feature for just one area, that'd be the one to turn off.
Suggest adding a "Remove Geas" button under Magic.
Along the same lines as the handling box, when Armor is selected under "New Gear" it should have slots for Ballistic and Impact. Currently it only has one box.
one possible option for Eidolon, as far as coding goes, might be to populate a list box wit those knowledge skills, insted of having them fill-text (what i'm assuming they're doing, i havent had a chance to properly install it ) That way, if someone wants to reuse an old knowledge skill, they can go to a secondary drop down, while keeping the main input clean.
) That way, if someone wants to reuse an old knowledge skill, they can go to a secondary drop down, while keeping the main input clean.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| ...you've made it clear that the program only generates starting characters, by which you mean 120 BP, which is perfectly fine... |
you know you can change the BP amount though right? if not, it's at the bottom of the edges and flaws page.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| (On that note, would it be that hard to add a karma use option? Considering that it's all handled via simple multipliers depending on what you're improving, it should be pretty easy to include a box in which you type the amount of karma that a character has to spend, and it gets spent after all BPs are gone. I also assume, however, that it would entail about a billion more lines of code and that you've just deemed it "not important" for now. ) |
my years of experience with SR were spent in alabama playing with my friends...we all started role-playing together when none of us knew how, and we never thought of giving a 'starting' character karma to use, just more BPs if we wanted them to be stronger. (and if it's in the rules that you can use karma, we never noticed) that's something new to me now that i'm out in the world.
are there exact rules on how this works? do you buy stuff at the char. gen. rates, or at normal rates? you said something about spending the karma only after BPs are spent?
the only reason i didn't include this feature is that i don't know the details.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Sorry man. I only get name/race/edges-flaws. I meant to ask you about that earlier in the week, but must have forgotten to type it out. |
ok, that's what i guessed since that was what i found in the .zip file i put up for download. poop! how did i ever overwrite the new one i made with the old one?!?
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| ...I had turned off all three limiters. When I started choosing edges and flaws, I noticed that if you remove anything, it turns Spending back on. |
noted.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| First off, if I haven't remembered to mention it yet, I think it's totally bitchin' that the program learns, and that I don't have to re-type stuff like new weapons if I want to use them again. However, I'm beginning to think that if there's one section where it shouldn't learn and save stuff, it's knowledge skills. I don't know about other people's games, but I know that nearly every character that gets made in our games has probably 75% "new" skills; that is, skills that we just make up to fit the character. At this rate, the knowledge skill list is going to be comletely unnavigable before I even get done inputting the characters before starting game. |
unless i get any objections, then i'll consider this.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Suggest adding a "Remove Geas" button under Magic. |
oh ya! noted.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Along the same lines as the handling box, when Armor is selected under "New Gear" it should have slots for Ballistic and Impact. Currently it only has one box. |
noted.
thanks again eidolon!
| QUOTE (Aku @ Feb 16 2006, 06:12 AM) |
| one possible option for Eidolon, as far as coding goes, might be to populate a list box wit those knowledge skills, insted of having them fill-text (what i'm assuming they're doing, i havent had a chance to properly install it ) That way, if someone wants to reuse an old knowledge skill, they can go to a secondary drop down, while keeping the main input clean. |
i will consider a second drop-down for all 'house' knowledge skills if it comes to that. thx!
| QUOTE (Aku) |
| one possible option for Eidolon, as far as coding goes, might be to populate a list box wit those knowledge skills, insted of having them fill-text (what i'm assuming they're doing, i havent had a chance to properly install it biggrin.gif ) That way, if someone wants to reuse an old knowledge skill, they can go to a secondary drop down, while keeping the main input clean. |
That's not a bad idea, but all it really does is make a separate list of skills that are (in my experience) typically used once, for one character.
Perhaps a better solution would simply be to have the program, after you hit "Okay" after putting in a knowledge skill, just ask you if you want it saved to the list. That way, if it's a skill you'd like to use later, it's on the list, but if it's too specific you can leave it off.
| QUOTE (archimagus) |
| you know you can change the BP amount though right? if not, it's at the bottom of the edges and flaws page. |
Yeah, saw it. However, more build points isn't really what I mean by non-standard starting characters. What I'm talking about is a 120 BP character with some Karma to spend, which ties into the following:
| QUOTE |
| we never thought of giving a 'starting' character karma to use, just more BPs if we wanted them to be stronger. ... are there exact rules on how this works? do you buy stuff at the char. gen. rates, or at normal rates? you said something about spending the karma only after BPs are spent? |
Okay. Basically, say I've got 120 BPs and 25 Karma. I'll first generate a "starting" character, using the 120 BPs. Then, once that's done, I'll spend the Karma for things like raising attributes, raising skills, buying new skills, initiating, bonding foci, etc.
The rules for spending Karma start on page 242, SR3. It's pretty straightforward. There's a table on page 245, SR3 that shows the cost of raising things.
For example, I have a character with:
Quickness: 6
Pistols (a Quickness skill): 3
and I want to raise the character's Pistols skill to a 4. Since raising an active skill (up to the linked Attribute's rating) cost 1.5 Karma, going from a 3 to a four will cost
4 (the desired rating) x 1.5 = 6
so it costs 6 Karma to raise his Pistols skill from a 3 to a 4.
And so on. Basically, I foresee the program asking at the beginning if you intend to have any Karma at generation. If you select no, then it keeps the options greyed out (or invisible). If you select yes, then it asks you how much, and then keeps it greyed out until you've finished spending all of your build points.
Also, just as far as general methodology, when we build characters with Karma and extra (non-chargen money) it goes like this:
- Build the basic character with your beginning BPs. This includes spending all of your BPs.
- Spend Karma to improve the character.
- Money purchased with BPs is used to purchase items using the character generation rules (in other words, availability and rating limits apply, but street index does not)
- Money given as "extra" is spent using the post-generation rules
(no limits on what can be purchased, but street index applies).
Also, there is some magical gear that requires a Karma expenditure. This is typically included in the rules for each specific piece of gear that requires it. (Also, after chargen, all foci and talismans are bonded using Karma.)
It sounds a lot more complicated than it is, really.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Perhaps a better solution would simply be to have the program, after you hit "Okay" after putting in a knowledge skill, just ask you if you want it saved to the list. That way, if it's a skill you'd like to use later, it's on the list, but if it's too specific you can leave it off. |
another good solution...i'll keep that in mind as well.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Okay. Basically, say I've got 120 BPs and 25 Karma. I'll first generate a "starting" character, using the 120 BPs. Then, once that's done, I'll spend the Karma for things like raising attributes, raising skills, buying new skills, initiating, bonding foci, etc. The rules for spending Karma start on page 242, SR3. It's pretty straightforward. There's a table on page 245, SR3 that shows the cost of raising things. For example, I have a character with: Quickness: 6 Pistols (a Quickness skill): 3 and I want to raise the character's Pistols skill to a 4. Since raising an active skill (up to the linked Attribute's rating) cost 1.5 Karma, going from a 3 to a four will cost 4 (the desired rating) x 1.5 = 6 so it costs 6 Karma to raise his Pistols skill from a 3 to a 4. And so on. Basically, I foresee the program asking at the beginning if you intend to have any Karma at generation. If you select no, then it keeps the options greyed out (or invisible). If you select yes, then it asks you how much, and then keeps it greyed out until you've finished spending all of your build points. Also, just as far as general methodology, when we build characters with Karma and extra (non-chargen money) it goes like this: - Build the basic character with your beginning BPs. This includes spending all of your BPs. - Spend Karma to improve the character. - Money purchased with BPs is used to purchase items using the character generation rules (in other words, availability and rating limits apply, but street index does not) - Money given as "extra" is spent using the post-generation rules (no limits on what can be purchased, but street index applies). Also, there is some magical gear that requires a Karma expenditure. This is typically included in the rules for each specific piece of gear that requires it. (Also, after chargen, all foci and talismans are bonded using Karma.) It sounds a lot more complicated than it is, really. |
that sounds about how i thought it might work - so about about this:
the character updater will have a place to adjust the amount of
you have on each credstick, and the amount of karma you have. the idea behind this is that you create a character and then go on a run where you gain/spend and karma. you then open the updater, add-in/subtract how much and karma you've got, and then you can spend it or not.so let's say that your GM says you can create a character with
120 BPs, 20 karma and 20,000
is there any reason you can't spend the 120 build points and all your starting
and then save and print the character and go straight into the character updater where you add your 20 karma and 20,000 , and then spend it as normal?i'm not trying to be lazy - i just want this system to be a simple as possible. and if i'm already putting karma/
spending capability into the updater, then i don't see any reason to repeat myself in the creator...please, everyone, think about this to see if you can think of any holes in this system. i want people to be able to create characters using extra karma and
, i just don't want to clutter things up if i don't have to.and thanks again to all for your thorough testing and all of the great enhancement suggestions!! your hard work and honesty is deeply appreciated!
| QUOTE (archimagus) |
| and thanks again to all for your thorough testing and all of the great enhancement suggestions!! your hard work and honesty is deeply appreciated! |
While I haven't had the opportunity to do an in-depth test for you, I can sincerely say that your efforts are very appreciated as well.
thanks Jray!
Actually, I had forgotten there was a separate updater on the way. 
That's perfect. All of the Karma and extra moolah spending will go on in it.
Ignore me on that one.
That's perfect. All of the Karma and extra moolah spending will go on in it.
Ignore me on that one.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Actually, I had forgotten there was a separate updater on the way. That's perfect. All of the Karma and extra moolah spending will go on in it. Ignore me on that one. |
i am glad you asked though - 'cus creating characters that way is very popular. and i need to know about this stuff so that i can make sure it's covered.
i'm going to try and make a push this weekend to get as much done as i can. i also need to run through some trainings for my new job this weekend - but i should be able to get a lot done on Jackpoint.
if anyone runs into any problems or thinks of any improvements, just keep me updated!
if anyone runs into any problems or thinks of any improvements, just keep me updated!
Ran into some trouble getting character info from 4 out of five of my players, so I probably won't get to actually try to use JP during game this weekend.
I plan on taking their sheets (or at least copies) this time so I can input them for next week. I'm anxious to try out the GM console real-time.
I probably won't be doing much more testing until possibly Sunday (or Monday), due to having to prep and run game for Saturday (and possibly Sunday...). I'll try to keep an eye on the thread at some point though. I expect to get back into testing next week (when I'm adding their characters).
Thanks again for all the work you're putting into this.
I plan on taking their sheets (or at least copies) this time so I can input them for next week. I'm anxious to try out the GM console real-time.
I probably won't be doing much more testing until possibly Sunday (or Monday), due to having to prep and run game for Saturday (and possibly Sunday...). I'll try to keep an eye on the thread at some point though. I expect to get back into testing next week (when I'm adding their characters).
Thanks again for all the work you're putting into this.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| ...the rating box won't allow you to up-arrow to anything above a 1 |
if you look at SR3.57, column 1 bottom half of the page you'll see a listing of "...limitations [that] also apply in choosing skills:". Point #2 is:
"No character can have a starting rating higher than 6 in any base skill (7 for specializations)"
that is why i made it so that when you click on the button "New Skill/Specialization" and you choose specialization, the rating box only goes to 1.
but, i did not make it so that the base rating goes down by one, which i am fixing right now.
the rating shouldn't be 1, though, it should be (base rating +1).
| QUOTE (mfb) |
| the rating shouldn't be 1, though, it should be (base rating +1). |
it will be once you take the specialization. see, technically you're taking a rating 1 specialization - and then that specialization adds its rating to your base skill to get the actual rating for the specialization.
at least, that's the easiest way to represent it in the program.
in the character updater, everything will be more linear in that when you raise a skill or specialization, you'll be raising it from it's current rating to a new one.
edit: ok, so i actually just removed the rating box from the window when you have specialization selected - confusion gone.
Hehe. Yeah, good way to fix it. As long as the calculations are coming out correctly it doesn't matter how they're achieved. (And you're achieving it correctly to in this case. Points-1=Base, Points+1=Specialization)
Can't wait for the B2...
Crap. I gotta stop answering posts and finish prepping for game. So much to do yet, and G-2 hours.
Can't wait for the B2...
Crap. I gotta stop answering posts and finish prepping for game. So much to do yet, and G-2 hours.
Buddy of Eidolon decked into his account...hehe. OK, just kidding. he's running game now and I'm sorta dead, so I'm posting this instead of him.
the Electronics active skill is doing the same thing that Sorcery active skill did.
Thanks!
Same with trying to change Language points (I want to read better!)
the Electronics active skill is doing the same thing that Sorcery active skill did.
Thanks!
Same with trying to change Language points (I want to read better!)
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Buddy of Eidolon decked into his account...hehe. OK, just kidding. he's running game now and I'm sorta dead, so I'm posting this instead of him. the Electronics active skill is doing the same thing that Sorcery active skill did. Thanks! Same with trying to change Language points (I want to read better!) |
thanks man - they're both noted!
quick questions -
does anyone think that one of their characters has ever had more than 29 of any one type of skill: active, knowledge or language?
and if you have had or known of a character like that, how often do you think it happens that someone has so many of 1 type of skill?
i'm writing up my XSL character sheet and i want to make it's as unbreakable as possible. right now, the only thing that could break the first page is if someone had over 29 of one type of skill.
thanks!
does anyone think that one of their characters has ever had more than 29 of any one type of skill: active, knowledge or language?
and if you have had or known of a character like that, how often do you think it happens that someone has so many of 1 type of skill?
i'm writing up my XSL character sheet and i want to make it's as unbreakable as possible. right now, the only thing that could break the first page is if someone had over 29 of one type of skill.
thanks!
37 active skills... with another 4-5 that still need to be added, at least. But it's an unusually high powered game, and a metalhead.
well, that's 1. and i forgot to mention that:
active skill = active, specialization or maneuver
language = spoken and R/W
if this turns out to be a big deal, then maybe i'll work out a separate sheet - one that can handle a more grand-scale campaign.
active skill = active, specialization or maneuver
language = spoken and R/W
if this turns out to be a big deal, then maybe i'll work out a separate sheet - one that can handle a more grand-scale campaign.
if anyone wants to try it out, there is a new character sheet up at the site. it's not complete yet, but i figured i'd give you guys the chance to give feedback on how it looks so far...
you'll also need to download the 2 images and save them to the same directory as the sheet.
EDIT: another note about the character sheet - it works best if, in your browser window when the sheet opens, you go to 'File > Page Setup...' and you set margins to 0.5 inches and you delete the values in 'Header' and 'Footer'. if the margins are set lower than 0.5, that's fine...but more than that could break the layout. oh, and you only have to do this once.
you'll also need to download the 2 images and save them to the same directory as the sheet.
EDIT: another note about the character sheet - it works best if, in your browser window when the sheet opens, you go to 'File > Page Setup...' and you set margins to 0.5 inches and you delete the values in 'Header' and 'Footer'. if the margins are set lower than 0.5, that's fine...but more than that could break the layout. oh, and you only have to do this once.
Just dropping by. I haven't had much time to mess with JP over the last few days, and I'm taking a day or two hiatus from SR to counter my oncoming GM burnout. I'll be back at it soon though.
Any news on a beta 2?
Any news on a beta 2?
Eidolon's buddy again. got me own account.
first off, wanted to say thanks a bundle. I made a back-up character (my other one gets out of the hospital in 30 game days
) in about 15 minutes. This from a guy who usually takes a day or two for each character, just making sure the math is right, etc... so thanks.
but to the subject at hand: Car B/R seems to take more points out than it should, and when I get rid of the skill, it gives the right number of points back, resulting in fewer points than I should have. it's good with skill rank 1 or 2, but with rank 3, it takes 4 points, with rank 4 it takes 6. rank 5 cost me 8 points, and rank 6, 10 points! each of course only gave 1 2 3 4 5 or 6 points back, respectively.
trying to get the same results using different attributes and car B/R rank 6, gave me the following info:
with str=6, I got it to take the proper number of points as if I had an int of 6 (B/R skills all default to int pg 85, SR3) but when I had it remove the skill, it gave me more points back than I had put in! WOOHOO! free points!
when I tried it with str 1 and int 6, however, it had the same issue as I originally mentioned.
once that issue was found, I found that some other skills are screwed up as well. assault rifles is based on Bod, Armor B/R now based on str...
-when I restarted the character builder, Armor B/R was based on quickness, but gave extra points if your int wasn't also 6...
HOLY COW WHAT'S GOING ON??????? is it like this with only my copy or for others too?
maybe if I was a programmer, I'd understand what the issue is better.
but from where I'm standing, it looks like some of the skills are based on the wrong stat for BUYING them, but when getting rid of the skill, they're based on the right ones.
Head hurts now...
first off, wanted to say thanks a bundle. I made a back-up character (my other one gets out of the hospital in 30 game days
) in about 15 minutes. This from a guy who usually takes a day or two for each character, just making sure the math is right, etc... so thanks. but to the subject at hand: Car B/R seems to take more points out than it should, and when I get rid of the skill, it gives the right number of points back, resulting in fewer points than I should have. it's good with skill rank 1 or 2, but with rank 3, it takes 4 points, with rank 4 it takes 6. rank 5 cost me 8 points, and rank 6, 10 points! each of course only gave 1 2 3 4 5 or 6 points back, respectively.
trying to get the same results using different attributes and car B/R rank 6, gave me the following info:
with str=6, I got it to take the proper number of points as if I had an int of 6 (B/R skills all default to int pg 85, SR3) but when I had it remove the skill, it gave me more points back than I had put in! WOOHOO! free points!
when I tried it with str 1 and int 6, however, it had the same issue as I originally mentioned.
once that issue was found, I found that some other skills are screwed up as well. assault rifles is based on Bod, Armor B/R now based on str...
-when I restarted the character builder, Armor B/R was based on quickness, but gave extra points if your int wasn't also 6...
HOLY COW WHAT'S GOING ON??????? is it like this with only my copy or for others too?
maybe if I was a programmer, I'd understand what the issue is better.
but from where I'm standing, it looks like some of the skills are based on the wrong stat for BUYING them, but when getting rid of the skill, they're based on the right ones.
Head hurts now...
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Just dropping by. I haven't had much time to mess with JP over the last few days, and I'm taking a day or two hiatus from SR to counter my oncoming GM burnout. I'll be back at it soon though. Any news on a beta 2? |
i would like to release Beta2 by the weekend, so be on the lookout.
| QUOTE (FrictionX42 @ Feb 21 2006, 08:52 PM) |
| Eidolon's buddy again. got me own account. first off, wanted to say thanks a bundle. I made a back-up character (my other one gets out of the hospital in 30 game days ) in about 15 minutes. This from a guy who usually takes a day or two for each character, just making sure the math is right, etc... so thanks. but to the subject at hand: Car B/R seems to take more points out than it should, and when I get rid of the skill, it gives the right number of points back, resulting in fewer points than I should have. it's good with skill rank 1 or 2, but with rank 3, it takes 4 points, with rank 4 it takes 6. rank 5 cost me 8 points, and rank 6, 10 points! each of course only gave 1 2 3 4 5 or 6 points back, respectively. trying to get the same results using different attributes and car B/R rank 6, gave me the following info: with str=6, I got it to take the proper number of points as if I had an int of 6 (B/R skills all default to int pg 85, SR3) but when I had it remove the skill, it gave me more points back than I had put in! WOOHOO! free points! when I tried it with str 1 and int 6, however, it had the same issue as I originally mentioned. once that issue was found, I found that some other skills are screwed up as well. assault rifles is based on Bod, Armor B/R now based on str... -when I restarted the character builder, Armor B/R was based on quickness, but gave extra points if your int wasn't also 6... HOLY COW WHAT'S GOING ON??????? is it like this with only my copy or for others too? maybe if I was a programmer, I'd understand what the issue is better. but from where I'm standing, it looks like some of the skills are based on the wrong stat for BUYING them, but when getting rid of the skill, they're based on the right ones. Head hurts now... |
hey man -
thanks for the info on skills...to explain a little:
every skill has its linked attribute built-into it's record in the database. when you buy a skill, that linked attribute then gets passed to a function i wrote that checks the attribute value in question and returns a value indicating whether the skill level chosen is 'lower than or equal to' or 'higher than' said attribute. from there, the function i have that actually spends the points uses that information to decide how many points to spend.
i would imagine that there is some faulty code in this function, and i'll check it out tomorrow - or tonight, if i skip watching 24 for another night and watch it tomorrow instead...but seriously, i almost found out what happened today at work and i can't go through another day of spoiler-dodging
seriously though, i hope that gives you a little programing insight - and thanks for a detailed description of what was going wrong.
a couple questions though: when you tried buying the skill with different attributes at 6, were all the others at 1? also, did it do this with all the skills you bought, or just some of them, like the ones you mentioned? and the paragraph that starts "but to the subject at hand: " where Car B/R costs 1 then 2 then 4 then 6 then 8 and then 10...what was your intelligence set to?
thanks again!
Damn, they're signing up. Guess it's more spoiler tags for me from here on out.
Bah. Let 'em read. Spoils their fun, not mine.
Bah. Let 'em read. Spoils their fun, not mine.
| QUOTE (archimagus) |
| a couple questions though: when you tried buying the skill with different attributes at 6, were all the others at 1? also, did it do this with all the skills you bought, or just some of them, like the ones you mentioned? and the paragraph that starts "but to the subject at hand: " where Car B/R costs 1 then 2 then 4 then 6 then 8 and then 10...what was your intelligence set to? thanks again! |
When I first started buying the skill, I was using my character's attributes:
Bod 2
Qui 7
Str 2
Cha 3
Int 6
Will 6
then, when going back to it for further testing, the attribute I was testing for was at 6, all others at 1. It took/gave more points than with my original stats... so it seems that what I figured (wrong stat for getting skills, right stat for removing the skill) may well be the case. I'll go over each and every skill in a little while to get better info on it, if my eyes don't bug out of my head from all the schoolwork I have to get started on...
sorry, don't think I'll get to it by the time you're looking to release D2.
(there was more than I thought...)
| QUOTE (FrictionX42 @ Feb 23 2006, 06:07 PM) |
| sorry, don't think I'll get to it by the time you're looking to release D2... |
you're right - 'cus it's here!
Jackpoint Beta2 is out and ready for your abuse
EDIT: crap - and here i am 2 minutes later already adding bugs to the list
EDIT2: a quick note...you can now only type stuff into the tables in the 'Notes' fields. i am going to put together a nice 'help' section for the official release that will point out all of these little bits of information.
HOLY CRAP BATMAN!!!
::goes to dl JPB2::
::goes to dl JPB2::
another note...sorry for the airheadedness 
any characters that you made will not work with Beta2. I've implemented a few new things (like credstick tracking) that make the old characters not compatable.
you can send me any characters that you want to keep, and i'll add in the new fields for you.
any .gmf files you may have created are ok to bring into Beta2.
sorry about the hassle - but at least it does mean more functionality
craigpierce@gmail.com
any characters that you made will not work with Beta2. I've implemented a few new things (like credstick tracking) that make the old characters not compatable.
you can send me any characters that you want to keep, and i'll add in the new fields for you.
any .gmf files you may have created are ok to bring into Beta2.
sorry about the hassle - but at least it does mean more functionality
craigpierce@gmail.com
Major kudos on the easier install. Very nice.
First bug though, and it's a biggie:
Making the character a troll costs 20 BPs, and should cost 10.
Making an Ork costs 9 points, should cost 5.
Making a Formori costs 21 points, should cost 15.
(Also, going from Formori to another variant, even back to human, causes the BPs to go all kinds of screwy.)
Making a Hobgoblin costs 12, should cost 10.
Making a Menehune, then changing it back to human screws up the BP total.
I suspect that there are several instances in which going from one to another is going to mess up the BPs, and I doubt I'll catch them all on this run through. However, I'm betting that the issue that's causing it will be something that, once found, will be fairly simple to fix across the board. On several of these, going back to human raises your BP total to 116, rather than the correct 108.
AH HAH!! I just realized that what it's doing is recalculating your new BPs as though you were getting points back from attributes (I think). What I mean, is that the racial modifiers to attributes are getting calculated back into BPs when you go back to human, instead of them just being reset to 108.
Suggest programming in a "reset" to 108 that happens behind the scenes when going back and forth between races. That way, it's always calculating based on the 108 beginning total.
I also suspect that the inconsistencies in the costs for the races stem from it calculating based on the attributes rather than the set, constant race BP costs.
To complete the list though:
Making an Oni costs 14, should cost 10.
Making an Ogre costs 12, should cost 10.
Making a Minotaur costs 21, should cost 15.
Making a Satyr costs 16, should cost 10.
Making a Dryad costs 19, should cost 15.
Making a shapeshifter costs 31, should cost 25.
Also, if possible it would be nice to be able to add animal forms, which of course would also mean being able to enter the attribute mods. Perhaps a "Custom Animal" button that brings up a pop-up box, in which you input the animal name and attribute changes, etcetera? I don't know how much trouble it would be, and honestly, I'm not sure enough people play shifters to make it worth doing, but I thought I'd toss it out there.
I don't know if the "Other" option is new, or if it was in the old version (I didn't mess with the variants in B1 enough to have seen it even if it was there), but either way, Awesome. Totally dig the forethought on that one.
Specializations work!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO! (I know, I shouldn't be that excited..)
That's all for now, I have to get started on this weekend's game, so as to avoid the unpreparedness that plagued me last weekend.
First bug though, and it's a biggie:
Making the character a troll costs 20 BPs, and should cost 10.
Making an Ork costs 9 points, should cost 5.
Making a Formori costs 21 points, should cost 15.
(Also, going from Formori to another variant, even back to human, causes the BPs to go all kinds of screwy.)
Making a Hobgoblin costs 12, should cost 10.
Making a Menehune, then changing it back to human screws up the BP total.
I suspect that there are several instances in which going from one to another is going to mess up the BPs, and I doubt I'll catch them all on this run through. However, I'm betting that the issue that's causing it will be something that, once found, will be fairly simple to fix across the board. On several of these, going back to human raises your BP total to 116, rather than the correct 108.
AH HAH!! I just realized that what it's doing is recalculating your new BPs as though you were getting points back from attributes (I think). What I mean, is that the racial modifiers to attributes are getting calculated back into BPs when you go back to human, instead of them just being reset to 108.
Suggest programming in a "reset" to 108 that happens behind the scenes when going back and forth between races. That way, it's always calculating based on the 108 beginning total.
I also suspect that the inconsistencies in the costs for the races stem from it calculating based on the attributes rather than the set, constant race BP costs.
To complete the list though:
Making an Oni costs 14, should cost 10.
Making an Ogre costs 12, should cost 10.
Making a Minotaur costs 21, should cost 15.
Making a Satyr costs 16, should cost 10.
Making a Dryad costs 19, should cost 15.
Making a shapeshifter costs 31, should cost 25.
Also, if possible it would be nice to be able to add animal forms, which of course would also mean being able to enter the attribute mods. Perhaps a "Custom Animal" button that brings up a pop-up box, in which you input the animal name and attribute changes, etcetera? I don't know how much trouble it would be, and honestly, I'm not sure enough people play shifters to make it worth doing, but I thought I'd toss it out there.
I don't know if the "Other" option is new, or if it was in the old version (I didn't mess with the variants in B1 enough to have seen it even if it was there), but either way, Awesome. Totally dig the forethought on that one.
Specializations work!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO! (I know, I shouldn't be that excited..)
That's all for now, I have to get started on this weekend's game, so as to avoid the unpreparedness that plagued me last weekend.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| First bug though, and it's a biggie: Making the character a troll costs 20 BPs, and should cost 10. Making an Ork costs 9 points, should cost 5. Making a Formori costs 21 points, should cost 15. (Also, going from Formori to another variant, even back to human, causes the BPs to go all kinds of screwy.) Making a Hobgoblin costs 12, should cost 10. Making a Menehune, then changing it back to human screws up the BP total. I suspect that there are several instances in which going from one to another is going to mess up the BPs, and I doubt I'll catch them all on this run through. However, I'm betting that the issue that's causing it will be something that, once found, will be fairly simple to fix across the board. On several of these, going back to human raises your BP total to 116, rather than the correct 108.... |
this used to work fine, but just today i added the 'settings' section and moved the 'change component cost' section into in. i'll bet that i missed updating some code that works out spening/giving back race points. i'll look into this tomorrow. in the mean time, let me know if any other 'component' spending costs are messed up.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Also, if possible it would be nice to be able to add animal forms, which of course would also mean being able to enter the attribute mods. Perhaps a "Custom Animal" button that brings up a pop-up box, in which you input the animal name and attribute changes, etcetera? I don't know how much trouble it would be, and honestly, I'm not sure enough people play shifters to make it worth doing, but I thought I'd toss it out there. |
i thought about this when i was origionally making the 'other' race option...i'll probably include it sooner or later. but for now my thinking was the same as yours: "I'm not sure enough people play shifters to make it worth doing..." well, at least not a priority, anyway.
also, if you really wanted to make a shapeshifter right now that isn't on the list, you could use the 'other' race option and then be sure to take the proper edges/flaws that go along with shifting. i think that would work, but i am tired.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| I don't know if the "Other" option is new, or if it was in the old version (I didn't mess with the variants in B1 enough to have seen it even if it was there), but either way, Awesome. Totally dig the forethought on that one. |
it's not new
but i am glad you like it...i like it too.| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Specializations work!!!! WOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO! (I know, I shouldn't be that excited..) |
i hope so...and i hope that buying skills at higher levels than the linked attribute is fixed now too...but only time and testing will tell for sure.
Bug:
When I tried to add Electronic Vision Magnification 3 to my Eyes, Cyber Replacement, pair, I got the following error:
When I tried to add Electronic Vision Magnification 3 to my Eyes, Cyber Replacement, pair, I got the following error:
| QUOTE |
| Column 'ECU' is read only. [ Spoiler ] |
I tried it with other cyber that you have to install into another piece, and at least with the eyes and ears it seems to be an across-the-board thing. It would seem that changing it so that only "notes" was writable has created other issues.
Also, I just tried to add Etiquette at rating 4. I had 4 BPs that I had gotten by purchasing flaws. When I hit "okay", it told me that I didn't have enough points for it, then added it anyway but didn't charge me for the points. Hmmm....
Fuckin' awesome. You integrated the "Learn Me?" thing for knowledge skills. Perfect!
Hmm... there needs to be a way to remove a credstick in case you want to change it. Right now you can't get rid of them once purchased.
New bug:
When I tried to load "Mack", my new character, into the GM console, I got the following error:
Hmm... there needs to be a way to remove a credstick in case you want to change it. Right now you can't get rid of them once purchased.
New bug:
When I tried to load "Mack", my new character, into the GM console, I got the following error:
| QUOTE |
| Could not find a part of the path 'C:\Program Files\Jackpoint\JPFs\Characters\JPFs\Characters.jpf [ Spoiler ] |
A quick check revealed that it's looking too far. The path to the individual character files is just C:\Program Files\Jackpoint\JPFs\Characters\
But what the program is really looking for isn't located there anyway. It's looking for the overall "Characters.jpf" that contains all character data for the characters loaded into the GM Console, and the path to that is just C:\Program Files\Jackpoint\Characters.jpf
I tried working around this by simply creating a folder that completed the path it wanted, and placing a copy of the Characters.jpf file in it, but that just caused the program to add two of "Mack" when I hit "add PC/NPC".
Hmm..odd, right after I posted that last bit, I tried the workaround again and it now adds just one of the character, as it should. So I suppose it works temporarily at least.
Also: I don't know why I didn't remember to mention this earlier, but when using the dice roller, you can't roll any combat pool. It always says "Frag, all out of combat pool", even when you haven't used any. If you use the individual box to select a number of combat pool, same thing.
Also: In the Perception Test box, apparently the spacing got messed up somehow. Something is squished out of visibility.
Arrrgh. I'm not getting any preparation done.
I'm addicted to JP testing.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| When I tried to add Electronic Vision Magnification 3 to my Eyes, Cyber Replacement, pair, I got the following error: Column 'ECU' is read only... I tried it with other cyber that you have to install into another piece, and at least with the eyes and ears it seems to be an across-the-board thing. It would seem that changing it so that only "notes" was writable has created other issues. |
i'll bet that instead of changing that column in the temporary table row i create for each new piece of 'ware, and then adding that row to the table, i somehow have that column directly trying to write itself to the table. i'll add it to the list.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Also, I just tried to add Etiquette at rating 4. I had 4 BPs that I had gotten by purchasing flaws. When I hit "okay", it told me that I didn't have enough points for it, then added it anyway but didn't charge me for the points. Hmmm.... |
were those your last 4 BPs to spend on that character? what was your charisma set to?
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Fuckin' awesome. You integrated the "Learn Me?" thing for knowledge skills. Perfect! |
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Hmm... there needs to be a way to remove a credstick in case you want to change it. Right now you can't get rid of them once purchased. |
oh ya - duh!
| QUOTE (eidolon) | ||
When I tried to load "Mack", my new character, into the GM console, I got the following error:
|
looks like when i changed the hard-coded paths to fit the new flexible install, i missed one.
| QUOTE (eidolon) |
| Also: I don't know why I didn't remember to mention this earlier, but when using the dice roller, you can't roll any combat pool. It always says "Frag, all out of combat pool", even when you haven't used any. If you use the individual box to select a number of combat pool, same thing. Also: In the Perception Test box, apparently the spacing got messed up somehow. Something is squished out of visibility. |
those 2 are weird - i'll add them to the list along with everything else though. for the perception test generator, is it a check-box like control that seems to be out of view, or a button or what?
thanks for the detailed bug report (as always) - you've been a HUGE help
we need a smilie who's pulling his hair out...'cus that's how i feel...
BUT, Jackpoint Beta2 Redux is now out. Hopefully, this is a version that only has small bugs in it, not big ones like the race point spending one.
let me know what you think! but not about the name Redux - it's all my fried brain could come up with.
BUT, Jackpoint Beta2 Redux is now out. Hopefully, this is a version that only has small bugs in it, not big ones like the race point spending one.
let me know what you think! but not about the name Redux - it's all my fried brain could come up with.
I'll DL and install in a minute. Just wanted to respond to:
| QUOTE (archimagus) |
| were those your last 4 BPs to spend on that character? what was your charisma set to? |
They were, and charisma was at 8.
| QUOTE |
| those 2 are weird - i'll add them to the list along with everything else though. for the perception test generator, is it a check-box like control that seems to be out of view, or a button or what? |
It was a radio button, one of the ones that lets you select variable conditions for the test. Lower left side, the top one (or more?) was squished out of view.
Oh, and anything is cooler when followed by Redux.
Small thing, but thought I'd mention it. The boxes on the die roller for "number of dice" and "target number" are a bit too narrow. When you get into double digit numbers, only half of the number shows.
Bug update:
There's definitely some sort of issue with spending final BPs. Unfortunately, I can't tell you much because the error came about when I tried to do something "illegal" anyway.
I had one BP, and nothing to spend it on really. So I thought I'd raise STR from 3 to 4. Well, it correctly told me that I didn't have enough points for that (don't know what I was thinking...it's 2 for 1 Att point...
), but then when I clicked "Okay" on the pop up box, it gave me 2 free BPs for a total of 3. Odd. Bug bug.
I had that one BP left (well, it said three, but I'm no cheater
) so I figured I'd just drop it to Language and even it out to 10 points, right? Easy. But...when I told it to give Lang a Knowledge point, it sky-rocketed my Language points total up to 43. I think it's giving the total available to language all in one lump, rather than one point at a time. That, and I had already spent all knowledge points. So now, I have a full complement of Knowledge skills, and 43 points to spend on Language. Suggestions:
Suggest adding a way to remove a pice of gear from the list, or at least have the program give you the option to "replace the existing" one. I was inputting new ammo (darts), and accidentally added it before finishing the stats, so now I'm stuck with incorrect gear in my list.
Also, what do you think about having it ask you if you want it to "learn" other stuff than knowledge skills? That, paired with the ability to delete ones you don't want, would make it extremely customizable. Suggest making an up/down arrow set to move skills up and down on the list. Call me picky, but I like to have my active skills in a group separate from knowledge and the like. If I add another active skill late in the process, I'd like to be able to group it with my other active skills. Not a big deal, just tossing it out there.
Arrrgh.
Still getting the "Conversion from type "DBNull" to type "String" is not valid." error when I hit Save/Print. (Not on every character though. I made one yesterday with B2, and it saved and printed just fine.) Here's the details:[ Spoiler ]
I have no idea what may be causing it. I did have a few bug encounters while making this character, so it might just be that.
One thing, which I think you're already aware of, is that credsticks don't calculate cost correctly. It should charge you for the SIN, and deduct the amount you place on it from your available cash. It does neither. (Again, I think you've got this listed already though.)
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